The Sonic Glitch/Tech/Non-obvious move list & Gimp Guide *updated 2/16*

[TwinkleToes]

Then you should probably say that in the match-up thread.
Thanks for bumping a stickied thread though

 

[Umby]

Yes, I just realized I posted in the wrong place. ._.

 

[twilightmystery]

Hey shouldnt you mention that Sonic, Pit, and Mr. Game and Watch can be gimped by just grabbing them near a ledge after they use their upB. Once they are grabbed after using their upB, each character just goes into a falling animation and can do anything to recover.

 

[TwinkleToes]

:/

I mean, that's true for any character, it's just not practical to grab most other characters out of their up-b.

 

[OwL]

About jab-lock... could there be a way Sonic does something like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nOLuUHJVHaU

 

[TwinkleToes]

^I have that listed under "infinite jab lock." I didn't go into detail, but Sonic can basically do exactly what Jiggs is doing. He also has a fancier set-up that involves side-b->footstool->up-b spring hit.

 

[OwL]

I didn't mean the jab-lock itself.

I meant more, having a combo or "combo" that leads the opponent to the ground-stun, to then be easily jab-lock'd.

Same as Jiggly in the vid:

Footstool --> Nair --> jab --> jab --> jab --> jab

 

[TwinkleToes]

That's what I just said...

Re-read what I posted ya nub :x

 

[Anthinus]

Hi dudes, I found something useful with w-edge jump. You know the range of Homming Attack is better in front of Sonic, right? Well, you can w-Edge jump then HA to have full range. Is useful when you are pressuring people off the stage... You bair someone and grabbed the edge, why don't you use a w-edge HA to gimp his/her second jump?

 

[TwinkleToes]

Hi dudes, I found something useful with w-edge jump. You know the range of Homming Attack is better in front of Sonic, right? Well, you can w-Edge jump then HA to have full range. Is useful when you are pressuring people off the stage... You bair someone and grabbed the edge, why don't you use a w-edge HA to gimp his/her second jump?

That could be somewhat risky given the lack of a second jump though right? I wouldn't suggest using this on any character that could get to the edge fast and then counter-edgeguard you.

 

[Tenki]

just wondering if anyone here ever uses "reverse stutter step" (I don't know if it really has a name yet, but it pretty much describes the movement).

(dash-dance speed) [Back] > [Forward+attack]

Any character can do it, but it's nice for Sonic because of the way his Fsmash pulls back then extends forward.

I personally find it much more useful than a normal stutter step.

Hi dudes, I found something useful with w-edge jump. You know the range of Homming Attack is better in front of Sonic, right? Well, you can w-Edge jump then HA to have full range. Is useful when you are pressuring people off the stage... You bair someone and grabbed the edge, why don't you use a w-edge HA to gimp his/her second jump?

or you can do a neutral B-reversal (tap in the direction you want to face, let go, then press B).

just double tap away from the stage (first tap releases edge, 2nd tap changes the direction of the neutral B) then hit B for homing attack. It saves you your double jump, and keeps you lower than you would be if you did a w-edge jump, which is generally a good thing for HA.

 

[Browny]

im incredibly bored so im gonna try get frame data on sonics attacks (i have to see how quick uair, dsmash and dtilt are). So far im thinking, training in 1/4 speed and ill video tape it. upload it to my computer and play it back at like 40% speed so i can clearly see individual frames. To make sure what im doing is right ill first test it with known frame data (like on the lucario boards). Then ill determine the safety of his ground moves by measuring the difference in frames between when an attack is finished (by activating shield during the attack, i know a shield takes 2 frames to come out) and the opponent who shielded the attack, dropping thier shield (ill find how many frames this is)

does that sound about right?

ok so i did it my way... this is what i got
Jab - 4
dtilt - 9
ftilt - 9
utilt - 10
grab - 9
fsmash - 28
dsmash - 26
usmash - 30
fair - 7
nair - 8
bair - 21
dair - 26
uair - 7

i forgot dash attack >_>

do those numbers seem right to everyone? im using the PAL version so im not sure if theres a framerate difference (although im quite sure my wii is set to 60hz). if they are right i spose i can help other character boards out. only took like 15 minutes >_>

 

[TwinkleToes]

Seems about right. Any info on hit-box frames? I'm mostly interested in the difference in how fast d-smash comes out as opposed to f-smash/tilt.

I'd also like to know how fast the b-air hitbox comes out.

 

[InterimOfZeal]

Most jabs come out in 3 frames in fighters. Care to double-check? Also, totally awesome that you're doing this.

Next, we'd need IASA and invul frames, as well as SA, though Sonic has no SA, only invul. Hrm...

 

[Browny]

those were the hitbox frames... hence why they look a bit off to me. 9 frames for the dtilt wtf

 

[Anthinus]

That could be somewhat risky given the lack of a second jump though right? I wouldn't suggest using this on any character that could get to the edge fast and then counter-edgeguard you.

If you Spring and airdodge isn't too risky... Well, that if you missed. If you hit the target (or gain good height) you can return easy on the stage. But you are right, the risk is against people that grab the edge fast, etc and could punish you...

or you can do a neutral B-reversal (tap in the direction you want to face, let go, then press B).

just double tap away from the stage (first tap releases edge, 2nd tap changes the direction of the neutral B) then hit B for homing attack. It saves you your double jump, and keeps you lower than you would be if you did a w-edge jump, which is generally a good thing for HA.

I'll try it, but it can become a Spin Dash if you don't release control stick in the right time, so can become completely ineffective...

About frame stuff, I'm very interested to learn exactly when the hitboxes appear and disappear...

 

[Browny]

i have no idea how people found hitbox duration on the frame without the use of some external device (i hear about some Gecko thing a lot). and shieldstun makes it very difficult for me to figure out how punishable an attack is since it completely changes the length of the animation with no discernable frame differences, remember im trying this with a video camera so its quite hard.

I could however determine the invinviclbe frames from sping + usmash quite easily, but not until i find out if my numbers, therefore method is correct. if someone else had any way to check whether mine are right that'd be great :>

 

[ShadowLink84]

If someone already has twilight princess I can send them the things they need to use oracle and get the frame data.
I don't have a twilight princess copy I can use to hack the wii

 

[InterimOfZeal]

If someone already has twilight princess I can send them the things they need to use oracle and get the frame data.
I don't have a twilight princess copy I can use to hack the wii

Wait... wut?

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

How do you do that?

 

[Terios the Hedgehog]

I believe the USB Gecko can capture frame data. However you need Twilight Princess in to get the Twilight Hack which I believe is like a Master code.

 

[Trillion]

if your not already busy working on the guide for gimping any particular character, could you write the Lucario entry?

 

[TwinkleToes]

^The reason I haven't been doing it recently is because I don't have my Wii at the moment. But, I've played Lucario enough to know how to destroy his recovery game pretty well... So I'll see if I can get around to that soon... no promises though :O

 

[TwinkleToes]

Ok, so I was playing Brawl at a friend's house today and I was able to VSDJ while grounded with my down-b (as Sonic obviously).

I did it twice on accident and couldn't recreate the event. I think it might have had something to do with me hitting jump and b at the same time, but I really don't know. I do know I didn't hit any fancy buttons or crap like that and no one hit me at the time. Although, there were people close to me (can't imagine that's a factor but who knows).

So... yeah... someone with regular access to a Wii should look into this for me... us... the community... the good of mankind... :O

 

[Umby]

You mean you you VSDJ'd after releasing Spin Charge or you did it during the charge?

 

[TwinkleToes]

I did it during the charge. It looked like it still had the hitbox, exactly as though I was doing a side-b VSDJ.

 

[Tenki]

yeah, you can jump out of any charge (side/down B) for a vsdj `.`;

PS: Yes, Vertical spindash jump.

 

[Trillion]

whats vsdj stand for? vertical spin dash jump?

 

[TwinkleToes]

yeah, you can jump out of any charge (side/down B) for a vsdj `.`;

Really? I try it all the time with down-b but I can NEVER do it. I just do a normal spin dash jump. Is my timing off?

 

[Tenki]

Really? I try it all the time with down-b but I can NEVER do it. I just do a normal spin dash jump. Is my timing off?

You have to be holding [down] on the control stick.

Also, an interesting thing to note/possible mechanics issue:

I had a suspicion that the airdash glitch was related to the phase-change/invincibility of the hop being instantly interrupted by ground.

While accidentally being sent into custom stage and playing with my brother, I ended up messing around and realized this:

You are invincible throughout the whole airdash state.

Doing a turnaround (like if you land on a platform or stay on the ground) will, as suspected, create a new, lower-charged spindash roll, taking away your invincibilty frames.

That is all.

 

[TwinkleToes]

^Strange, if you know that how come no one has ever talked about it before? :x
At least, I've never seen anyone mind game a VSDJ with a down-b.

 

[Tenki]

^Strange, if you know that how come no one has ever talked about it before? :x
At least, I've never seen anyone mind game a VSDJ with a down-b.

if that was @ airdash,
because people don't tend to play in stages where you can airdash.

Also, it's kinda obvious you're invincible cause you have the dodge frame flash going on throughout the whole airdash.
====
it's easier to VSDJ from a side-B so people tend to do it out of that.

also, more on input:

you can press [attack] or [jump] while holding [down] and it'll VSDJ.

 

[Super_Sonic8677]

funny....I almost always do it with spincharge >_>

 

[Tenki]

lol I abused 'airdash' successfully for the first time in a wifi friendly against a Snake.

it was too funny.

Mine+double grenade trap + u-tilt

(Sonic rolls through it all)

"lolwtf?"

also, at the end of his first stock, before we got disconnected, I airdashed off the level to chase and U-aired for the kill xD

 

[TwinkleToes]

It's too bad it only works on certain stages... otherwise you could work it more into the metagame :O

 

[Tenki]

I did it on Pictochat. Anywhere that there's a 45 deg. angled slope or steeper, you can pull it off, right? You don't have to be off the ground for it (invincibility) to work. Also, Yoshi's Island is neutral, isn't it?

;D ;D

 

[TwinkleToes]

It wouldnt be practical to do it on Yoshi's island. Way too easy to suicide off the side. That stage is tiny.

 

[Tenki]

err, just doing the roll on anyone on the main platform. You have invincibility frames until you jump or turn around. You don't actually have to roll off the stage lol.

 

[Browny]

i think the fsmash out of a dash could use another look at (and be added to this list). i remember a lot of talk about it early on but it hasnt done anything since. For those who probably werent around when it was found out, simply tap down-diagonal to initiate the dash, be sure to let the stick return to neutral. almost as soon as sonic begins the screeching animation, tap down diagonal again, at the same time you cstick fsmash. Its got pretty impressive range since sonics single foxtrot animation is HUGE. Ive gotta try find a way to remember to implement this into some of my games and maybe film it, because i cant see why this has gone on unused for so long :/

 

[TwinkleToes]

IDK, I remember Zeal talking to me about utilizing fox-trotting and pivoting more but I never pursued it myself. If you could show its utility that'd be interesting I guess.