Terios the Hedgehog
Smash Hero
I sent Cat a video where Phoenix does that. Ask him.
I was meaning to test the Fair Spike. I was thinking of RARing a Fair. Which is fun regardless but I never remember to do it in the heat of battle. XD
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The Sonic Glitch/Tech/Non-obvious move list & Gimp Guide *updated 2/16*
- Thread starter TwinkleToes
- Start date
I was meaning to test the Fair Spike. I was thinking of RARing a Fair. Which is fun regardless but I never remember to do it in the heat of battle. XD
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
I was thinking of putting it up. That and the Dash attack cancel. I'm gonna try today, but that's not a promise. My setup is being extremely ghey this week.
Napilopez
Smash Lord
Imma be oboxious and repost my thought on the SideB Running grab since I seem to have been ignored ='[ *cries* =P
I think you should add in the boost that shield cancelling SideB gives when running. I tested it today in slow motion and shield cancelling a SideB while running and then shield grabbing always gave me more grab distaance than the standard running grab, but without the horible end lag, so I find it to be safer.
Also useful for mindgames due to the Spindash sound XD
I think you should add in the boost that shield cancelling SideB gives when running. I tested it today in slow motion and shield cancelling a SideB while running and then shield grabbing always gave me more grab distaance than the standard running grab, but without the horible end lag, so I find it to be safer.
Also useful for mindgames due to the Spindash sound XD
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
The side B does NOT I repeat NOT have invincibility frames. It has very high priority.
During the initia;l part of the hop with the "invincibility frames" Luigi's fireball cuts through everytime.
Unless it is a specific part of the ball that has invincibility frames I think its safe to say it has high priority.
During the initia;l part of the hop with the "invincibility frames" Luigi's fireball cuts through everytime.
Unless it is a specific part of the ball that has invincibility frames I think its safe to say it has high priority.
TwinkleToes
Smash Lord
It might just be an issue of strange hitbox placement and Luigi's fireball is able to find it.
One way or the other I'm not putting that back up there.
One way or the other I'm not putting that back up there.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
maybe luigi is hax.
i vote hax
i vote hax
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
Seriously, his nair and fair cut through Olimar's usmash. Luigi is hax.
I'll try out the fireball stuff later. If it plays out how I think it will, Imma put up invincibility on mah guide.
I'll try out the fireball stuff later. If it plays out how I think it will, Imma put up invincibility on mah guide.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
Maybe we are just
I tried it with Luigi and Mario's fireballs, and you're right about the fireball being destroyed by the hop. It's weird. Maybe it's the fireballs as a projectile, since you can basically "damage" them to get rid of them. You know, since Side-B does damage and all.
But I don't see any reason as to why Sonic can pass through things like Samus's full-charged shot without stopping it (he literally goes through it), or why he can do the hop through Eruption, D3 F-smash, Wolf lasers without them clanking or being destroyed, without taking damage. Maybe the said projectiles have more 'projectile hp', if such a thing exists. But this isn't Little Fighter, so I can't say for sure x.x;
Maybe he has both invincibility and high priority during those frames. I have stopped Metaknight's ground Tornado with this >_>
But either way, there's nothing that I've seen aside from stage obstacles that can hurt Sonic during this hop. Can't get hurt? That's invincibility, isn't it?
---------
Also, I posted this in another thread (doesn't seem to be read much). It's not so much a Glitch/Tech/Non-obvious move. It's more of a... property of a special attack that's not understood too well or known about. I haven't seen any mention of it, but IT'S TOO GOOD! D:
TwinkleToes
Smash Lord
Tenki I don't really get what you're saying in that post... aerial spin charge? Wha?
Browny
Smash Hater
its true... i noticed it yesterday for the first time against my brother, i charges up down b after getting knocked up, and rammed into him with the underside of sonic from the air, did a lot more damage than normal and almost killed him off the top at 150%.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
i am confused. english plz
Umby
Smash Master
Memphis You Should Totally Change Your Name To Nicholas Rage
Okay, pretty much, Aerial Spin Charge (down-B) is probably Sonic's strongest combo starter, and it's got its use in battle, as a damager and a feint. I haven't seen mention of its features yet, so I'm assuming I'm the first (at least, to group all of these together). And if that's true, then it's not a widely known/understood move :x
I explained it clearer (?) here:
http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=11834
Summary:
- ASC has an inherent two-hit hit combo that sets up for an aerial combo, similar to how aerial side-B does (pops them up)
- The damage of the first hit depends on your speed, not charge. All you have to do is hold forward and you'll do full damage (11%), from any height! Side-B loses its attack hitbox after enough fall time (not much), but Down-B can have its attack hitbox on as long as you hold forward. The first hit has high knockback, so like djbrowny said, it can kill off the top. From full hop height, it can do it from like..140-150% (no stale move). On a standing Mario, it's around 180%.
- I'm not sure how the damage from the 2nd hit is calculated, but it fluctuates from 7-10%. Pretty much, all you have to do is be next to your enemy, or just keep holding forward - this means that each "forward" ASC is worth at least 18 damage, 15 if you want to factor in stale moves, with out counting the aerial. Either way, this one pops them up with lesser knockback so you can combo into an aerial.
- You can shield cancel the landing if you hold shield as you land. Just hold shield while you're landing. Too good.
If you factor in the aerial attacks' damage, the hops are basically worth 25-35 damage.
And then I think I mentioned the "perfect" combo where you go from an ASC combo, land, and do a full spindash combo as you land.
ASC [hit 1]> ASC [hit 2]> (land on/in front of opponent) SD [hit] > SDJ [hit] > aerial
and that combo is worth at least 40 damage, provided that you can get the spindash when you land, and hit the spindash jump and combo it into the aerial >_>
...yeah.
I explained it clearer (?) here:
http://allisbrawl.com/forum/topic.aspx?id=11834
Summary:
- ASC has an inherent two-hit hit combo that sets up for an aerial combo, similar to how aerial side-B does (pops them up)
- The damage of the first hit depends on your speed, not charge. All you have to do is hold forward and you'll do full damage (11%), from any height! Side-B loses its attack hitbox after enough fall time (not much), but Down-B can have its attack hitbox on as long as you hold forward. The first hit has high knockback, so like djbrowny said, it can kill off the top. From full hop height, it can do it from like..140-150% (no stale move). On a standing Mario, it's around 180%.
- I'm not sure how the damage from the 2nd hit is calculated, but it fluctuates from 7-10%. Pretty much, all you have to do is be next to your enemy, or just keep holding forward - this means that each "forward" ASC is worth at least 18 damage, 15 if you want to factor in stale moves, with out counting the aerial. Either way, this one pops them up with lesser knockback so you can combo into an aerial.
- You can shield cancel the landing if you hold shield as you land. Just hold shield while you're landing. Too good.
If you factor in the aerial attacks' damage, the hops are basically worth 25-35 damage.
And then I think I mentioned the "perfect" combo where you go from an ASC combo, land, and do a full spindash combo as you land.
ASC [hit 1]> ASC [hit 2]> (land on/in front of opponent) SD [hit] > SDJ [hit] > aerial
and that combo is worth at least 40 damage, provided that you can get the spindash when you land, and hit the spindash jump and combo it into the aerial >_>
...yeah.
Umby
Smash Master
****, can't tell if this was mentioned before (yes, I am lazy but ****it I don't care) but charging Down B in the air, releasing it in the air, and holding shield will cancel it out when you hit the ground. You even get a little sliding motion. Doesn't seem to work for side b.
edit: seems to work from any height so long as the spin charge is still active.
No seriously, I'm extremely lazy.
edit2: **** you for posting about it before I did.
aaaaaaaaaaaa
edit3: Tenki is II gud.
edit: seems to work from any height so long as the spin charge is still active.
No seriously, I'm extremely lazy.
edit2: **** you for posting about it before I did.
aaaaaaaaaaaa
edit3: Tenki is II gud.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
ug... to early.. brain not working... to.. much... thinking... stop
Umby
Smash Master
Memphis, we need to Browl.
@umby: yah. and you can keep the spin charge active by holding forward, too.
sssǝɯɯɐɐɐbppuııııɯ
ShadowLink84
Smash Hero
No invincibility would mean that the stage obstacles wouldn't hurt him either and they do.
I think its just really high priority as well as how the projectiles behave over all.
I think if it does have invincibiltiy frames the spindash shouldn't be interrupted by anything during the hop.
Most likely its just as you said concerning the hitbox placement.
probably it has invincibility AND high priority in different parts of the dash since I've been interupted by Wolf's laser during the hop and have also gone through it easily.
They really should have just made sonic invincibile during the entire hop. He'd **** campers so hard.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
sonic needs an ∞
Umby
Smash Master
I Get It It's An Infinite
In that case, Up-B isn't invincibility either. Use up-B going into a stage hazard (DK level, for example), and you'll get hit. Considering how TL goes through him, it's actually more of dodge frames, if anything.
I think his Side-B could be dodge frames+attack hitbox with high priority.
Also, the invincibility/priority frames last about as long as Eruption's Super Armor Frames, and that's not a long time, so don't overestimate its length and confuse the "power" frames with the normal frames.
Well, I'm gonna stop arguing about it. As long as you can't get hurt during the beginning, it doesn't really matter. Invincibility, dodge, or high priority, or even all of the above, it's all used the same way, and lasts for the same length.
Browny
Smash Hater
sonic has an infinite stall on floating stages
his shoes make an infinite symbol when he runs
how much more do you want :/
his shoes make an infinite symbol when he runs
how much more do you want :/
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
one that does damage
TwinkleToes
Smash Lord
Well he can infinite jab-lock people and if they're against a wall I think it becomes a true infinite.
Anyways, I'll look more into that Tenki. Thanks for posting it up.
Anyways, I'll look more into that Tenki. Thanks for posting it up.
Meta_Sonic64
Smash Master
I still need help doing the instant edgehog with Sonic. Everytime I run off the stage he ends up going too far to grab the edge.
@ edgehogging, and also, more on side-B
It's really a matter of timing, other than those two (important) parts of it.
Try doing it earlier, and if you can't do it from a full dash, try it from an initial dash/walk (do a half circle forward-back when you're standing at the edge)
Side B
I wanted to correct what I said earlier about side-B and stage hazards.
Sonic can go through things like Onett cars and Bomb blocks in Dreamland. He can't go through the stage hazards in DK's platform hell level. Pretty much, anything you can dodge through, he can use his 'power' frames to go through unharmed.
Are you quickly inputting fast-falling+pressing toward edge?
It's really a matter of timing, other than those two (important) parts of it.
Try doing it earlier, and if you can't do it from a full dash, try it from an initial dash/walk (do a half circle forward-back when you're standing at the edge)
Side B
I wanted to correct what I said earlier about side-B and stage hazards.
Sonic can go through things like Onett cars and Bomb blocks in Dreamland. He can't go through the stage hazards in DK's platform hell level. Pretty much, anything you can dodge through, he can use his 'power' frames to go through unharmed.
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
Ohsnap. People found out about vB being able to kill? Wtf? I was gonna have that as a surprise in mah guide. D: D: D:
Oh well, congrats on you guys being tight and ruining every present I've ever made for you. D:<
Oh well, congrats on you guys being tight and ruining every present I've ever made for you. D:<
thumbswayup
Smash Master
On the first day I used Sonic I spin dashed (pretty sure it was down b) into my friend's MK, hit him twice with my spin, and then u aired him. This was at the very beginning of the match so it was from 0-25% off one attack. It's just a little tricky to pull off.
TwinkleToes
Smash Lord
Is it actually practical to use this against an opponent not in hit-stun? I'm thinking it will have the same priority/range issues that the normal spin dashes have.
InterimOfZeal
Smash Champion
Wait... Smash has hitstun?
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
Wait... Sonic?
thecatinthehat
Smash Master
Tenki, we want video now.
I know I'm on a break and all, but I still want to see this.
I know I'm on a break and all, but I still want to see this.
^No idea if you meant ASC or the side-B stuff.
I would post videos but uh... well, you don't see any videos on youtube of Tenki(Sonic) vs ____ do you x.x;
My laptop with webcam is unable to go online and honestly, I've never recorded video with it either so I don't know much about that stuff. Otherwise I would have made demonstrational videos for the Finishing Moves thread xD
Either way, the ASC is simple to do, just down-B and release in midair, hold forward on your opponent, and tada, 2 hit combo, and follow it up with an aerial if you want =|
Side-B stuff can be tested in 1/4 speed in training mode =/
The thing about ASC is that, like SDJ, it moves faster through the air than your normal aerial speed, if you hold forward. You can also RAR it to bait / boomerang into someone.
Acronyms:
ASC = aerial spin charge (air vB)
SD = spindash (ground roll)
SDJ = spindash jump
I would post videos but uh... well, you don't see any videos on youtube of Tenki(Sonic) vs ____ do you x.x;
My laptop with webcam is unable to go online and honestly, I've never recorded video with it either so I don't know much about that stuff. Otherwise I would have made demonstrational videos for the Finishing Moves thread xD
Either way, the ASC is simple to do, just down-B and release in midair, hold forward on your opponent, and tada, 2 hit combo, and follow it up with an aerial if you want =|
Side-B stuff can be tested in 1/4 speed in training mode =/
The ASC? Kinda. You can do the simple combo (the 25-30%) ones against aerial opponents. Only the "perfect combo" (ASC ASC SD SDJ Aerial) needs a grounded opponent, but IMO the "perfect combo" is too difficult/hard to place to try to do intentionally in real games x.x;
The thing about ASC is that, like SDJ, it moves faster through the air than your normal aerial speed, if you hold forward. You can also RAR it to bait / boomerang into someone.
Acronyms:
ASC = aerial spin charge (air vB)
SD = spindash (ground roll)
SDJ = spindash jump
Umby
Smash Master
Acronyms!!!
Sonic Orochi
Smash Ace
ASC FTW!
Deathwish238
Smash Apprentice
AHA! i knew i had found something weird when posted this but nobody agreed v_v lol. watch that video around 2:36-2:37 im pretty sure thats what tenki is talking about. Sonic hits marth extremely hard for a spindash and you can tell its a vB since it doesn't hop.
Sonic Orochi
Smash Ace
Yes, that's the Forward ASC.
Deathwish238
Smash Apprentice
lol yes i knew i saw something funny; thats awesome. its a little bit on the slow side tho but i guess people won't be expecting it and it can have its uses/set ups. like tenki said with his combos (which i got a bit confused on but w/e lol)
Sonic Orochi
Smash Ace
SH -> FASC.
Add that to Sonic's running speed. It's not that slow at all. And I believe it will make an excelent edge-guarding tool, as you can chain it with a Fair. Hell, you can even follow it up with a Homing Attack! :DDD
However, I am testing this on Training mode, so I'm not taking DI into account =P
Add that to Sonic's running speed. It's not that slow at all. And I believe it will make an excelent edge-guarding tool, as you can chain it with a Fair. Hell, you can even follow it up with a Homing Attack! :DDD
However, I am testing this on Training mode, so I'm not taking DI into account =P