Sharky
Smash Master
Did Kirk ever get his Cyan name? I don't see it yet. =/
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The Smash Lab: What is it?
- Thread starter SamuraiPanda
- Start date
- Status
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
The panda's still being busy.
phi1ny3
Not the Mama
Ur forgetting, Elitism rocks.
But I think that its a matter of what we want most: validity and accuracy, or speed and variety of thought?
infomon
Smash Scientist
Openness and transparency are reasonable goals as well
But really, I don't think validity and accuracy suffer when everyone's allowed to contribute. It might take a bit more organization, say for a Lab "official" to take correct/validated information and put it in the OP of each thread. But I think the trade-off is worth it.
For example, in the thread [Using Aerials for Recovery], a smash child (June 2k8 joiner, still has less than 100 posts) came in with crazy ideas that you could fastfall an aerial before reaching the apex of your vertical trajectory. Ulevo and myself initially dismissed his ideas, but it turned out he was quite right and had good methods to prove it.
I wouldn't want to carelessly dismiss the involvement of such ppl. Especially since it encourages the growth of the smash community at large.
But really, I don't think validity and accuracy suffer when everyone's allowed to contribute. It might take a bit more organization, say for a Lab "official" to take correct/validated information and put it in the OP of each thread. But I think the trade-off is worth it.
For example, in the thread [Using Aerials for Recovery], a smash child (June 2k8 joiner, still has less than 100 posts) came in with crazy ideas that you could fastfall an aerial before reaching the apex of your vertical trajectory. Ulevo and myself initially dismissed his ideas, but it turned out he was quite right and had good methods to prove it.
I wouldn't want to carelessly dismiss the involvement of such ppl. Especially since it encourages the growth of the smash community at large.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Never doubt by post count, it a simple matter of response.Openness and transparency are reasonable goals as well
But really, I don't think validity and accuracy suffer when everyone's allowed to contribute. It might take a bit more organization, say for a Lab "official" to take correct/validated information and put it in the OP of each thread. But I think the trade-off is worth it.
For example, in the thread [Using Aerials for Recovery], a smash child (June 2k8 joiner, still has less than 100 posts) came in with crazy ideas that you could fastfall an aerial before reaching the apex of your vertical trajectory. Ulevo and myself initially dismissed his ideas, but it turned out he was quite right and had good methods to prove it.
I wouldn't want to carelessly dismiss the involvement of such ppl. Especially since it encourages the growth of the smash community at large.
And yeah I saw that, it was a really good idea on his part, but I feel a more secluded group to research, make a discovery or bring up a huge topic, and then share with the rest of the community.
∫unk
Smash Master
Stop being lazy and give out the Cyan
please
please
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
infomon
Smash Scientist
.... but new members of the boards won't be allowed into SmashLab, so that could be considered "doubting by post count".
Yipes, you're implying that the SmashLab discussions won't even be publicly viewable, until they're "chosen" to be revealed to the community? I hope that's not the case / not what you meant. I'd hope at the least that we can all see the Smash Lab discussions, even if posting privileges are restricted.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
No thats not what i meant, i meant you bring findings from the Smash Lab to the table once it seems like a solid foundation, not some alpha-type theory. But yes your idea seems corrrect, like the Debate Hall (which i still haven't been accepted into but i see other random people are, questions?).... but new members of the boards won't be allowed into SmashLab, so that could be considered "doubting by post count".
Yipes, you're implying that the SmashLab discussions won't even be publicly viewable, until they're "chosen" to be revealed to the community? I hope that's not the case / not what you meant. I'd hope at the least that we can all see the Smash Lab discussions, even if posting privileges are restricted.
M.K
Level 55
Post count shouldn't mean anything. It's like racial or sexual sterotypes, but with post count.
Everyone had 50 posts at one time, but that doesn't mean that we don't have our own say in things.
Amen to the Cyan!
Everyone had 50 posts at one time, but that doesn't mean that we don't have our own say in things.
Amen to the Cyan!
MuBa
Smash Lord
You guys should be more patient >_>
M.K
Level 55
We said that a week ago!
M.K
Level 55
Hmm, you live in NC, too? What high school?
I have finals too X_x I guess we should wait for Panda regardless of when he posts.
I agree with Infzy that the Lab should be open. It's not like this is an opinion-based MK argument thread. The quantifiable nature of this kind of thing fosters quicker results with more community consensus. If it's another elitist group, then people will argue more, just to compete against the others.
M.K
Level 55
Not quite. The members that are to be accepted into the lab should have proven their ability to work with others for a common goal. This isn't the Debate Hall, where you are forced to go against your fellow posters.
The Smash Lab community thread is one of the nicest ones on these boards. I never see any flaming, and if someone is wrong about something, a poster kindly points it out and corrects them.
Oh yeah, the Smash Lab is gonna be so much fun.
*the following has no bearing on my personal opinion, I'm merely representing an unrepresented side, so that both sides are presented, regardless of what may actually be the case*
You must admit that having the smash lab be private, and having the threads made public when complete also offers benefits over the always public method. Having discussion publicly viewable before a conclusion/consensus is found could add confusion to the community. Furthermore, only the complete results really matter to the general audience, so keeping discussion publicly viewable the entire doesn't add much to the community.
*keep in mind that this post is purely for arguments sake, and that I don't care one way or the other which way it ends up being*
You must admit that having the smash lab be private, and having the threads made public when complete also offers benefits over the always public method. Having discussion publicly viewable before a conclusion/consensus is found could add confusion to the community. Furthermore, only the complete results really matter to the general audience, so keeping discussion publicly viewable the entire doesn't add much to the community.
*keep in mind that this post is purely for arguments sake, and that I don't care one way or the other which way it ends up being*
Mmac
Smash Lord
Pfff... Fighting over Cyan Names, have you no shame?
.....
I can't deny, I want Cyan name too! >_<
But I put research first before fancy colours.
Can we have at least another Technique/Property to discuss?
.....
I can't deny, I want Cyan name too! >_<
But I put research first before fancy colours.
Can we have at least another Technique/Property to discuss?
Also, If you want a real challenge, help us figure out this:
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=207191
Is the single naner lock a true infinite for Diddy?
Browny
Smash Hater
Im sure SP knows what hes doing... no point arguing over whether it should be open or not if there really is a problem people will see it in due time, you cant argue why it should be open with nothing but assumptions of what will go wrong
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
Yes, I agree. The lab should be private. I don't see much sense in having it open so people can read the assumptions. What if they take a theory for granted? That would lead to confusion among the users.
Besides, it's not about the post count, it's about how XY contributed to the research so they'd be accepted.
The only thing I could imagine would be a sticky thread in Brawl Tactical or something, showing what project is worked on in the Lab right now.
∫unk
Smash Master
Recently it was found that GW's bucket (and a few other specials) can be used to stop momentum from a large hit... letting you live longer than "normal techniques".
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=UuXBIYnMuTE
Explain why it happens and why with those particular specials.
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=UuXBIYnMuTE
Explain why it happens and why with those particular specials.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Gah double post.
Red Arremer
Smash Legend
I wasn't able to watch that video, but at first I'd say: higher priority.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
I think it has to deal with the Bucket swinging out from G&W, or other moves pushing forward. This probably produces a forward momentum on ground and in air.
Junk PM me some of the moves please.
Hard to call for now, on my way to school.
I'd say it's exactly what the video says: an oversight in the programming of the bucket. I think what most momentum canceling moves do is save the momentum before the input, and then call that variable when the move is over. GaW's bucket apparently doesn't do that. From a programming standpoint, I think that makes the most sense.
It would be interesting to test if this applies only to knockback momentum, though.
UNC-CH
infomon
Smash Scientist
What other types of momentum are there? :o
Those moves also stop your aerial mobility even if it's under your control.
I'm like, sure it's an oversight, it doesn't make sense otherwise. I doubt there's much left here for the Labbers to explore...
M.K
Level 55
There is non-disruptive knockback (Squirtle's Water Gun, Mario's FLUDD/Cape, Pit's Shield)
infomon
Smash Scientist
Oh, I see. Well, the Bucket freezes G&W's aerial momentum even in those cases; if he's in the air. Along the ground, the bucket will slide due to those forces.
I can only assume that Yoshi's side-B and DK's up-B have the same behaviour.
I can only assume that Yoshi's side-B and DK's up-B have the same behaviour.
∫unk
Smash Master
Have you tested all specials?
infomon
Smash Scientist
Yep, I tested them all, and found those three to be exceptional.
Although, feel free to test out your main, especially if there are any weird ATs involving their specials that I didn't experiment with.
Although, feel free to test out your main, especially if there are any weird ATs involving their specials that I didn't experiment with.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
You guys test most stuff first because you timezones are hella different from mine, most of this stuff was posted aroun 5 am EST lol
M.K
Level 55
Definetly, definetly try Zero Suit Samus' NAir --> Flip Jump.
I would, but I have practice in about....15 seconds :/
Adapt
Smash Lord
I think uair ends faster than nair, but I'm fairly certain that flip-jump will not cancel your momentum like the bucket.
Although, I am kinda interested in whether there is a difference in the result based on whether you use the kick or not.
Although, I am kinda interested in whether there is a difference in the result based on whether you use the kick or not.
infomon
Smash Scientist
Nair isn't her fastest aerial, is it? When I tested her, it seemed like Fair at least was faster, but it didn't really matter lol. Her up-B I think helps againset knockback, but still gives her a boost away..... I'm pretty sure that's what happened. It certainly wasn't G&W-broken
sorry.Edit: gwaa, Adapt beat me to it lol
Anyway...
SmashLab:
or can I call you SmashLabians, or would that be bad? lol
I want to know exactly what determines the strength of the boost. I think experimenting with this would probably involve the use of homebrew hax, which I can't use yet.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
Brawl's Physics Engine and a little test from Nintendo, since we all know they are against competitive nature and penalize you for trying.Nair isn't her fastest aerial, is it? When I tested her, it seemed like Fair at least was faster, but it didn't really matter lol. Her up-B I think helps againset knockback, but still gives her a boost away..... I'm pretty sure that's what happened. It certainly wasn't G&W-broken
Edit: gwaa, Adapt beat me to it lol
Anyway...
SmashLab:I have a question for you. As I've brought up, using most momentum-changing Specials during knockback causes you to receive an extra boost away from the stage; a sort of penalty for trying to cheat the recovery system. I'm wondering what determines the strength of this boost. It's somehow proportional to the amount of knockback force on your character, so the earlier you use a Special, the more it will push you away. Nevertheless, I think the strength of the boost is also dependent on the Special itself; since Sonic's side-B gives only a very small boost, but some seem to give inappropriately-large boosts.or can I call you SmashLabians, or would that be bad? lol
I want to know exactly what determines the strength of the boost. I think experimenting with this would probably involve the use of homebrew hax, which I can't use yet.
Lol, if only we had a form of debug, maybe it is available thru some homebrew, I need LoZ:TP real quick...
MuBa
Smash Lord
There is no debug menu in Brawl. But there are some codes I've actually considered to ask such as being able to color-coat hitboxes so we can get a better idea of what they look like.
Pr0phetic
Dodge the bullets!
I seriously fell out of my chair laughing at that.
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