The Single, Best Improvement For Your Main

[Shadic]

Improvement: Fair has 25% less knockback, same amount of stun frames

Impossible. Hitstun in directly connected to KB.

I want Marth to have a working UpSmash. Give it the hitbox that actually has real KB over the entire move.

Not a super huge improvement, but eh.

Also Ganon's Utilt should be the same Speed as Falcon's, but keep the KB, obviously. Insta-S tier.

 

[choknater]

Character: Ice Climbers
Current Tier: Ice Climbers Tier (B-Tier)
Improvement: 3 Ice Climbers instead of 2
Results: Godlike **** of an icy sort.
Proposed New Tier: Popo, Nana, and Hubert tier

http://www.old-picture.com/indians/pictures/******-Family.jpg

all in the fam. we got this.

 

[~Twitch~]

Character: Yoshi
Current Tier: F
Improvement: Give yoshi s class priority + duration on all air attacks.
Result: Yoshi would actually have a nasty approaching game that doesn't have such high risk. This would defeat his whole shielding paradox. Not saying jumping out of shield wouldn't be awwsome. But since that was said I chose this improvement. He'd be a much faster version of peach. Minus the **** tier down-smash.
Conclusion: B Tier.

guh, if only.

 

[DerfMidWest]

Character: Pichu

Current Tier: dog-****.

Improvement: Invincibility frames during UpB (also like... not hurting himself) and a little bit faster moving and less start up lag. I can be invincible all over the stage that way. Pichu's perfect agility approaches would be a lot more useful this way. More range and priority on some moves. Dair should act like a mini-knee or be like ganon's dair if you hit them with the bottom. Nair needs super high priority. Jolts should explode marth/sheik because i hate those matchups. DownB should come out faster, have more hitstun/knockback, and pichu should be able to move against faster (when the move misses him). Slightly bigger grab range. When Pichu lands after doing a jolt, he should have no lag. Fair should end faster, have less lag, and more hitstun. Uair should do 8% rather than 4%. Fsmash should be harder to SDI out of. Pichu should be able to combo out of jab (it ends faster), jab should also come out faster. Side B should end faster (after the horizontal movement stops) and be jump cancelable. Running speed should be a little better so that he techchases better. All of pichu's ground moves should come out quicker (so that he can attack as soon as he hits the ground). His taunt should be a powerful attack (like luigi's UpB powerful), because that would be hilarious.

results: he would be a decent character. PAWD-smash attacks would ****. his combo/killing game would be improved, as would his approaches. Techchasing and chain grabbing would be easier as well. His general ability to move around the stage would be much better.

purposed new tier: C tier. I don't see him being S/A/B tier unless you change a lot more about the character than I listed (its a kinda long list)

sorry if changing so much defeats the purpose of the topic, its just the stuff that I would change about Pichu in order to make him a decent character. I still love him da way he is though :3

 

[Veetaak]

Character: Falco
Current Tier: Good
Improvement: Give him the speed of fox
Result: Less frustration
Purposed new tier: Better than good

 

[Shadow Huan]

Character: Mewtwo
Current Tier: F
Improvement: Working special moves.
Results: His Forward B (Confusion) will actually reflect projectiles, serve as a great anti-air approach from SHFFL, Float, Tilt, and SHL abuse, and lead into free grabs or forward airs on floaties, or free down smashes and techchases on fast fallers from the extra stun.

Down B (Disable) can have two possibilities... keep the same criteria of working against grounded opponents that are facing you, but having more sleep time to land a DJC down air or smash at lower percentages and hitting through shields, sidesteps, and rolls.

Or... Make it come out a bit faster, remove the grounded and facing requirement, and stun opponents facing backwards or in the air to be a good edgeguarding/anti-air move against certain characters. I wouldn't even mind if the stun scaled the same as it did now with those changes.

Conclusion: Mewtwo has unique special moves that actually do something. He might even gain respect as a character! Mewtwo's biggest problem is that he doesn't have ANYTHING threatening in front of him so you have to play an absurdly air tight WD/DD spacing game with a character that jumps like Ganon/Yoshi/Falco just to scratch someone until they're high enough to be KOed with up throw.

Even with those changes, he would still be squishy, but have an option to lead to his other finishing moves and combo starters, which would put him somewhere in D tier, probably under Pikachu.

Proposed New Tier: D-Tier

making him a lot heavier, taking away the hurtboxes on his tail, and speeding up the invincible startup on the teleport would actually make mewtwo and decent character imo.

Well it's nice to dream

 

[DerfMidWest]

I think I'll do it correctly now:

Character: Pichu

Tier: negligible

Improvement: Invincible UpB

Result: He can get anywhere on the stage super fast, with 1 frame of landing lag while being invincible the whole time. The main thing that irritates me about Pichu's UpB is how useful it could be if you didn't get smacked out of it all the time. Invincibility would allow Pichu to approach with UpB without too much worry of being punished. UpB OoS and off the ledge would be a much safer option as well, and UpB off the ledge would help Pichu get back to the stage better, which is one of his problems, imo. Right now I mostly use Pichu's UpB as a mind game or a surprise approach, but I have to be very cautious with it due to the fact that a good player will just punish me for it after they see it a few times. It has its uses, but Pichu is prevented from using the move as often as he should be able to.
unfortunately, I could only fix one thing, so it still hurts him, which still prevents Pichu from using it too often.

Proposed new tier: High F or Low D (I think it'd make a pretty big difference)

 

[DerfMidWest]

This would actually suck, as his down smash is a decent move.

Character: Kirby
Current Tier: Actually worse than pichu tier
Improvement: No longer loses forward momentum when jumping
Results: Kirby now has Jigglypuff's aerial maneuverability with a decent KO move (uair)
Proposed New Tier: Slightly better than Pichu tier

still not even. In terms of gimping/edgeguarding, Pichu still prevents the majority of characters from returning to the stage. Down B can be used to create a little wall that stops a lot of characters (if its used right) and then sets up another areal, this can be repeated until they get hit too far to recover/run out of jumps. unless they are sheik. in which case we grab the ledge.
Smash attacks and Tilts are also still great for edgeguarding, I'd say just as well as kirby's.

On stage, Pichu Combos better and Techchases better and chaingrabs and just has a better ground game really. If Kirby could take people to the killzone like puff could and recover better, of course he would be a better character than he is now, but i don't think that alone would make him better than Pichu.

Idk, it might just be me wanting to think that Pichu is a lot better than he is :\

 

[john!]

Character: Mr. Game and Watch
Current Tier: F
Improvement: Obtain a shield
Results: Mr. Game and Watch can now block attacks
Conclusion: He is no longer Falco's b*tch
Proposed New Tier: D

 

[Strong Badam]

you could also allow him to l-cancel all of his moves
and make his spotdodge & rolls not awful.

 

[Walt]

And his usmash not being slower than Bowser's fsmash.

edit: make it like Doc's usmash so he'd have some OoS game other than up-b or "PREY REALLY HARD"

 

[Strong Badam]

prey really hard is my favorite OoS option

 

[Walt]

oops I spelled pray wrong. or used the wrong one I suppose.

blah.

give falcon an OoS game too.

actually give everyone who doesn't have one a way to not get falco ***** when their shield goes up.

 

[ShroudedOne]

For G&W to have an OoS game, he'd need to have a shield, first. =P

 

[john!]

lol i don't even care that he doesn't have a roll. rolling is for scrubs yo

and he can l-cancel his fair and dair, which are the only aerials he'd be able to approach with anyway (except maybe bair)

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Character: Insane Crazy Guy
Current Tier: Z-tier (you don't know how high this tier really is)
Improvement: Unbanned
Results: The boards would be infinitely better.
Conclusion: ICG too good.
Proposed New Tier: Unmentionable

 

[kevo]

Character: Mr. Game and Watch
Current Tier: F
Improvement: Obtain a shield
Results: Mr. Game and Watch can now block attacks
Conclusion: He is no longer Falco's b*tch
Proposed New Tier: D

I think if you gave G&W a shield and also bucket braking from Brawl, he would be at least D tier.

 

[Elyssa Xey Hexen]

Meh. If you are in hit stun the whole time from time of fox usmash to time of death off the top, then no bucket braking is going to help.

 

[kevo]

Unless the bucket invokes brawl physics and cancels hitstun...

 

[Strong Badam]

we're trying to make characters better, not the game mechanics worse.

 

[The Star King]

I thought this could be cool if it wasn't for the fact
that Marth can't reach the edge if he wall-jumps.

He can if he immediately does an aerial after the wall jump and moves towards the edge (think Falcon's wall jump knees)

 

[Bing]

Also Im pretty sure if you for example wall jump to dair. the momentum will leave you further off, and maybe a little bit down, which you then side b or bair back towards the stage and then up-b. should work.

 

[Stratford]

This thread was making me smile.

Then I read this,

Character: Ice Climbers
Current Tier: Ice Climbers Tier (B-Tier)
Improvement: 3 Ice Climbers instead of 2
Results: Godlike **** of an icy sort.
Proposed New Tier: Popo, Nana, and Hubert tier

http://www.old-picture.com/indians/pictures/******-Family.jpg

all in the fam. we got this.

and I absolutely died.

 

[Keblerelf]

I want Marth to have a working UpSmash. Give it the hitbox that actually has real KB over the entire move.

Not a super huge improvement, but eh.

replace marth's upsmash with snakes utilt's range and KB.

 

[choknater]

thanks stratford

3 ice cilmbers would just be so insane

 

[Acryte]

2 foxes, we'll call it the wolfpack. If you play it right it should look something like that last combo in Dark's vid where ganon got *****

 

[Bones0]

Ness
- Better grab range
- Make usmash and dsmash stronger with less lag
- Make his Up-B consist only of the second part (so as soon as you Up-B he zooms in whatever direction)
- PK Fire autocancels on landing and always shoots straight
- Down-B comes out on frame 1, has a hitbox like shine, and can be jump cancelled

I want to DJC bair-shine shield pressure.

 

[sulliman1]

Ness
- Better grab range
- Make usmash and dsmash stronger with less lag
- Make his Up-B consist only of the second part (so as soon as you Up-B he zooms in whatever direction)
- PK Fire autocancels on landing and always shoots straight
- Down-B comes out on frame 1, has a hitbox like shine, and can be jump cancelled

I want to DJC bair-shine shield pressure.

a slightly longer grab range makes sense, if he can throw people with psi power without touching them he should be able to grab them from that same distance of control. overall sacrificing grab range for smaller hurtboxes is a natural balance.

usmash and dsmash don't even need to be stronger, just faster so they can combo harder

his upb is mad unique and controlling pkthunder is fun, i just think you should be able to control the direction of the projectile better so you don't have to make that huge slow circle to hit himself and can turn it into yourself really fast. also being able to tech off of a surface after hitting it with pkt2 would be useful.

agree on autocancel, but i think the aerial diagonal is useful. i also think it should be longer so it can cover 2/3 tech options if you're right on top of them

mmm fast jc psi magnet would be cool but i don't know if should hit like shine due to its nature, maybe more like the hitbox on mewtwo's shadowball charge except it sucks you in like peach's dsmash since it is a magnet after all

djc nair/fair pressure would be cool too

 

[TheCrimsonBlur]

Mewtwo and G&W are such easy to fix characters.

Increase Mewtwo's fastfall speed and remove his tail hurtboxes and boom mid tier. Give his specials some use and hes even better.

G&W just needs a better shield and (more importantly) better tech and OOS options (rolls/sidesteps). Its so dumb that you can techchase him 0 to 1 million with any character that has a throw that hits him to the ground.

 

[Dan Salvato]

Young Link:
- Slightly longer sword
- Real hookshot that isn't flaccid and prepubescent
- Replace arrows with a slingshot that shoot in slightly faster succession than Sheik's darts.

Congratulations, you have a great zoner!

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Ness
- Better grab range
- Make usmash and dsmash stronger with less lag
- Make his Up-B consist only of the second part (so as soon as you Up-B he zooms in whatever direction)
- PK Fire autocancels on landing and always shoots straight
- Down-B comes out on frame 1, has a hitbox like shine, and can be jump cancelled

I want to DJC bair-shine shield pressure.

lol psi magnet shine is from brawl minus

Instant UpB would take all the fun out of Ness and make him mad broken at the same time. Imagine Fox's UpB without the startup and a lot higher KBG.

 

[darkatma]

Not gonna read through this entire thread, but the single best improvement for jigglypuff is to make her rest jump cancellable.

Then she would be the best character in the game no matter what other characters get.

 

[Mr Wizzrobe]

Pikachu:
-Give him his 64 aerials.
-Give him his 64 thunder.
-Give him his 64 forward/backthrows.
-Give him his 64 up-B except with the speed of it currently, and with less lag.
-Give him more weight.
-Dtilt semi-spikes.
-Dair spikes at the very tip of his head.
-Ability to walljump.
-Thunderjolt is faster in the air with more knockback, and lag is cancelled when performed before touching the ground.
-Dthrow reliably chaingrabs Sheik from 0% to 80%.

Conclusion: Pikachu ***** faces.
Proposed new tier: God/MK.

 

[Mr.Jackpot]

Why don't we just give everyone Sheik's Dthrow and they'll all be top tier

 

[sulliman1]

Pikachu:
-Give him his 64 aerials.
-Give him his 64 thunder.
-Give him his 64 forward/backthrows.
-Give him his 64 up-B except with the speed of it currently, and with less lag.
-Give him more weight.
-Dtilt semi-spikes.
-Dair spikes at the very tip of his head.
-Ability to walljump.
-Thunderjolt is faster in the air with more knockback, and lag is cancelled when performed before touching the ground.
-Dthrow reliably chaingrabs Sheik from 0% to 80%.

Conclusion: Pikachu ***** faces.
Proposed new tier: God/MK.

64-style fair would be nice at least, something with more range and stun
up-b should be more like pichu's in the sense of controlling the direction more precisely, still same speed and invincibility/hitbox properties though

those are the only serious suggestions from your not so serious post, everything else doesn't really address a weakness but rather makes pikachu easier to play in general. i know its lulzy or whatever to fantasize but the point of these suggestions are to give options where characters have few, not to create better options to replace existing ones

 

[DerfMidWest]

Character: Insane Crazy Guy
Current Tier: Z-tier (you don't know how high this tier really is)
Improvement: Unbanned
Results: The boards would be infinitely better.
Conclusion: ICG too good.
Proposed New Tier: Unmentionable

I agree with this post.

 

[FerrishTheFish]

i know its lulzy or whatever to fantasize but the point of these suggestions are to give options where characters have few, not to create better options to replace existing ones

I'm totally fine with this being a thread where people can share their fantasies. Just keep it PG-rated, kids 8D

Jokes aside, the point of this thread is to take your favorite character and make one small change. I'm willing to be flexible when it comes to the definition of "small," but taking a character and changing half their moves, their weight, and their mechanics is just silly. You can be as creative and outrageous as you want, but please keep it within the confines of this discussion. Silly suggestions = ok. Johns = not ok.

 

[choknater]

hahah well, even if that is your intended point of the thread, people will still want to have fun and make exaggerations. i can't think of any other buff that i'd want to give the ice climbers except for adding a 3rd climber <3

 

[FerrishTheFish]

Adding a third IC is exactly the sort of thing I want to see on this thread. It's a small change that would have drastic effects on their metagame (it's also not a john, but thankfully I haven't seen too many of those on this thread). Maybe I really should go back and try to define "small change."

 

[choknater]

haha man. if there were 3, they would definitely become the most technically demanding character in the game. could TAS even handle it?!? i'm sure they'd require MORE than 1 command every 1/60th of a second to be played to full potential!