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the secret zelda strats discussionzone

GKInfinity

GKInfinity

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Well, I got wrecked in tournament today. I was TOing it by myself and we ran into a bunch of early problems (like a shortage of setups). Basically though, the tournament started an hour late and after I called my match I realized that I hadn't got in any friendlies or played at all for a few days. My zelda was okay but I messed a bunch of stuff up. Then I copped out and went puff since I don't really need to be warmed up to use her. Twas a very dissatisfying tourney though.

I lost to Mexican game 2 though (Best west coast DK as far as I know). Anyone know how that matchup works?
 
nekokatsu

nekokatsu

Smash Apprentice
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Aug 2, 2009
Messages
92
Zone said:
Also... up+B(while he's recovering), you can beat it with a jump nayru's love. apprently from what I understand the hitboxes are slightly closer to the ground if you jump just before you nayru's. So using your invincibility you can knock link out of his Up+B. You can also just hold the edge and down air him out of his up+B, you outrange him from agove. you also outrange him with a kick. Probably best to just kick :D
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i didnt quite understand the up b thing, JC nayrus? on the edge, or just jumping out of the stage and nayrus?, but this guy used everytime the hookshoot, to get to the stage, after that i didnt now how to edgeguard, now im thinking maybe i got to use din after he could use his hookshoot.
 
Zone

Zone

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nekokatsu said:
i didnt quite understand the up b thing, JC nayrus? on the edge, or just jumping out of the stage and nayrus?, but this guy used everytime the hookshoot, to get to the stage, after that i didnt now how to edgeguard, now im thinking maybe i got to use din after he could use his hookshoot.
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Yeah what I said was for when he up+B's. Basically go into a match neko, do a regular Nayru's love. Pause it. Then do jump, and before you even leave the ground, do a nayru's love. You get a landing nayru's love type landing, and it definitely looks like the hitbox is lower than a normal standing nayru's.

If he hook shots. I always try to call it and hit him before he zips to the edge. If he sweet spots and you can't make it in time well, Just way patiently back a bit.

Umbreon said:
from experience I can tell you that plank is a lot scarier to fight against as zelda when he's teaming with PC chris, and PC feels like doing 1000% and gets 6 KOs per match lmao.
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I believe you :D, I've never even seen PCchris in person/never been to a tournament he was at. But I did play against Plank in teams when chu was on his team. I remember him being a little rough, but I really spent most of my time on chu, while my partner was on plank. and I was Marth.... so I can't really relate haha.
 
Cosmo!

Cosmo!

nerf zelda's dsmash
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what do you guys think about this vs jiggs strat

nonstop sh double bair
if jiggs is anywhere near you, retreat completely while doing it
if jiggs is kinda far away, do it in place
if jiggs is very far away, approach with it until jiggs is "far away" as opposed to "very far away"

if jiggs stays on you and you run out of stage room, then find a way back into the center
 
ChivalRuse

ChivalRuse

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Isn't it better to stay grounded when Jiggs is "very far away", thereby maintaining the threat of a kick at anytime? Once you commit to the air, your options are way more limited.
 
Cosmo!

Cosmo!

nerf zelda's dsmash
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I'm just throwin ideas around—I'd like to know what Umbreon thinks about this matchup (as in, specific strategies to employ) because he believes it is 5-5 when I was convinced it was 3-7

I'm starting to see how it could be closer to even but I don't really have solid strategies except that

1. retreating bair will beat all jiggs aerials
2. edgeguarding jiggs is likely risky and bad
3. jiggs can edgeguard you quite well
4. dtilt utilt kills at low% but jiggs has a safe shield so this is nearly useless

another strategy I've tried out is staying under platforms, camping jabs, kicks, and wavedash backwards, but this doesn't feel like a super great strategy. oh and spaced jab on jiggs shield seems decent as well cause dtilt is useless here
 
Cosmo!

Cosmo!

nerf zelda's dsmash
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im starting to use a TON of nair as shieldpressure, I aim at the back corner of their shield and start the nair and grind down their shield (no fastfall), then l cancel it into like turnaround dsmash or similar. its really good on certain matchups

also, empty jump to dtilt. LOOL

won a small tourney, finals was zelda vs doc lol.

some vs doc stuff:

doc seems to be able to plank zelda surprisingly well

pills are TOO GOOD on battlefield I banned that ****

I DI the dthrow UP+TOWARDS and it puts me sort of a little bit behind doc, I think this makes it nearly impossible for him to successfully dthrow->fair

I also think the oldschool bob$ combos will work if you try to DI out, which is really counterintuitive. zelda is just suuuper floaty so DI away / down+away seems to help the combo out. I got hit by wack stuff like 4 uairs -> fair. next time I wanna see what pure up+towards would do (I imagine it would allow him to uair->fair but at least I dont get massively chained acrossed the stage by uairs)

once I jumped offstage and did NL and it killed him, I think NL might be legit edgeguard against doc (and his pill rain)
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
I don't think Zelda vs Jpuff is that hard. I don't really have a reason, I've just never had a problem with the match personally. Don't get rested or edge guarded if you can help it and kick her attacks. Sorry I'm not much help here.
 
GKInfinity

GKInfinity

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I didn't do that great at GSG the last 2 days, but it was definitely fun. I practiced against M2k all night before the tournament and ended up dead tired day 1, which I regret even though I learned a lot. Me and my teammate went zelda/ICs for half of the teams and while we lost most of the games we played we never got worse than 2 or 3 stocked. We had scorpion master/alex 19, hmw/sj2, and scar/hax in our pool which were pretty tough teams

Heh, and nice sig cosmo
 
EPsilon933

EPsilon933

♥
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Hey, Umbreon, instead of spacing spamming toes, what can I do I do to sort of replace toes? All I know is toes, dash attack, Nayru's Love, pray for a grab, CC dsmash, CC fsmash, and jab cancel.

Or just what's my biggest flaw?
 
ChivalRuse

ChivalRuse

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You need to react to what people do more instead of planning it out beforehand. It's always better to improvise than say "okay I need to use more of x, y, and z".
 
ChivalRuse

ChivalRuse

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Many common situations lead predictably to other common situations. If you become more aware of what prompts specific movements or attacks, you can effectively minimize the amount of sharp reacting you have to do by first minimizing the number of options your opponent has.
 
D

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Guest
EPsilon933 said:
Hey, Umbreon, instead of spacing spamming toes, what can I do I do to sort of replace toes? All I know is toes, dash attack, Nayru's Love, pray for a grab, CC dsmash, CC fsmash, and jab cancel.

Or just what's my biggest flaw?
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probably just a generalized lack of experience. I was playing particularly poorly when you saw me playing so it might be weird advice for you to take but I don't have much other advice. I was playing closer to average yesterday at jesse's house and it was much better.
 
TheManaLord

TheManaLord

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Zelda doesn't have a limited move set, you've just got a limited mind set. Use whatever works, whenever it will work. Just think hard and observe the situation.
 
D

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TheManaLord said:
Zelda doesn't have a limited move set, you've just got a limited mind set. Use whatever works, whenever it will work. Just think hard and observe the situation.
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You have no idea what you're talking about.
 
Cosmo!

Cosmo!

nerf zelda's dsmash
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just cause zelda is uncommon doesnt mean she wont be predictable.

obviously zelda will be kicking a lot (and rightfully so)

the trick is to use the kick to its max potential. base everything around the kick. it's by far your best move; learn exactly how to use it in all circumstances. quick kicks, late kicks, waveland fastfall kicks, retreating kicks, approaching kicks, etc. from there, you start to realize where other moves are needed and they come naturally.

after playing zelda for awhile I really do feel she has definite mixups and pressure options on most of the cast just because of the fear of a kick. it lets you do other things. example: they're shielding and waiting for the bair to hit their shield and you do a nair (w/o fastfall), aiming for the corner of their shield in case of a poke, you land then L cancel it into a turnaround dsmash which hits their jump. etc
 
nekokatsu

nekokatsu

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i do understand perfectly what cosmo its saying... i played a lot of melee against good and bad players, mostly goods, the other day in a torney i played Zelda vs Fox for the first match in winners (yeah i got out of the pools!!!! for the first time, only using zelda, and i win against a very good player!!!) anyway, in this case, this guy was too fast and very technical (he got 2nd) and he win 2-0 but the two rounds only for 2 stocks of difference, my point, i can get those 2 stocks to a great lvl fox, with zelda cuz of the fear of a kick, and another factor, when ure playing so fast (fox falco) ure gonna get kicks cuz u cant be doing waveshines and dashdasing, and keeping the tracks of the kicks, today i played against an awful fox (almost no l cancel!!!) and he winned me, a few times, after that it was a close match every time, but i ended up winning for almost 1 hour!! xDDD (only with zelda) and he was expecting my kick, and playing carefully, he didnt come back with the illusion (i always kick them out) and he ended up in the stage and me floating out trying to kick him, a very carefull fox, its horrible, and a sheik who only grab u, its horrible as well, keep that in mind... zelda attacks, does not sucks, zelda players stand for mindgames, and intelligence over technical game =)
 
aka.carpet003

aka.carpet003

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what are some combos to practice? I need to get back to using Zelda LOL does anhyone know what a PAL zelda can do that a NSTC zelda can't and vice versa?
 
Dogysamich

Dogysamich

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s64 = ridiculous, high impact, custom combo mode

ssbm = fairly balanced (offense/defense wise), fast paced, "offensive minded" game (yeah that looks like a contradiction but it's not)

ssbb = fairly defensive minded, slower, action/response esque game.

So with that progression, what's next? Well, lets just take real time out of this and let you go at it like pokemon.

 
GKInfinity

GKInfinity

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Zelda's gonna tap in the next game regardless of what genre it is lol. Doesn't matter if it's a turn based RPG, FPS, Puzzle game, or Flight simulator... she's gonna ****
 
aka.carpet003

aka.carpet003

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Is there a trick to short hopping lightning kicks and doing lightning kicks out of shield consistently? or does it just come down to practice? I'm pretty sure I'm doing something wrong...
 
NJzFinest

NJzFinest

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Yeah, TheLake is my god.

Wish I got to play some Zelda dittos with him >.<
 
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