the secret zelda strats discussionzone

[Cosmo!]

my biggest victory to date

vs Kels (fox/falco) for 2nd place
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GGVzKGo0-qA&feature=feedu
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03o80QVZ0Tc&feature=feedu

i actually made a large number of mistakes in these games but I still won lol, bad recovery choices, bad shielding in places, improper rolling, failed chaingrabs.

still have a lot to improve upon

 

[Zoler]

Really nice played Cosmo Congratulations for the 2nd place!

I saw the GF vs you and m2k, how is the zelda vs sheik MU?

 

[EPsilon933]

She does have the best down b in the game though

no

frame data:

total: 69
invincible: 34-43

It does nothing.

 

[KirbyKaze]

I think you need to get more comfortable with moving out of your shield in different ways. I think you had some opportunities to WD OoS safely. Is Nayru's Love OoS any good for punishing certain close range stuff on shield? I noticed M2K dash attacked Cosmo a lot when he was blocking. Shield grab seemed to not work and lot of times M2K went behind him with the dash attack; would Nayru's Love be useful in these kinds of situations?

 

[EPsilon933]

I use it only sometimes out of Shield.

frame data (from memory)

jump: 7
Nayru's Love invinciblity: 4-11
Nayru's Love first hit: 12

frames 1-11: vulnerable
frames 12-19: invulnerable
frame 20: hits opponent

I only use it when there a bit away from my shield whether it's behind or in front.

 

[GKInfinity]

Down B sucks. Neva use that shiiiaatt

 

[Laijin]

no

frame data:

total: 69
invincible: 34-43

It does nothing.

Excuse me? But name one other character that by using down-b, they actually rise up the tier list.

 

[Dark Hart]

Zelda's Down-B is the best move in the game, but Zelda players refuse to use it.

 

[EPsilon933]

Excuse me? But name one other character that by using down-b, they actually rise up the tier list.

That makes Sheik a top tier character, not Zelda.

 

[Zone]

5 minutes in on that first kels match cosmo. when you had that grab. you shoulda dash attacked him(with the tip) woulda set up nicely for a kick off stage.

@DarkHat: sure man :D let me ask ragnarok if he's still going. If not we can double Zelda.

@KK: yeah if a shiek dash attacks and spaces it so it's behind you. If you feel shiek might crouch after the dash attack, nayru's love out of shield when they are behind you is pretty good option.

 

[Dark Hart]

lol sweet, doubles Zelda!!!

 

[GKInfinity]

Yeah down B doesn't make zelda a better character, you're basically just switching characters mid match. Sounds like cheating to me lol. I would never attempt it

 

[Cosmo!]

ya i should wd oos more; i think i roll so much cause it's basically a longer wd oos with some invincibility frames (but less safe)

sometimes i roll from instinct but instinct can be bad if people are reading you correctly. kels doesn't really try to read you but rather overwhelm you with tech skill, whoring those bair shines etc loool

 

[Deleted member]

Excuse me? But name one other character that by using down-b, they actually rise up the tier list.

falco, for starters.

 

[Laijin]

falco, for starters.

I don't think your getting what I mean lol.
Falco doesn't turn into a completely different character when you press down B. He will still always be Falco

 

[Dark Hart]

Technically, if Falco didn't use his down-B he'd go down some tiers

 

[GKInfinity]

^Same with puff. Rests are pretty **** important.

Samus would drop too. She wouldn't have that godly recovery without bombs

 

[Cosmo!]

no down B jokes in my thread please

 

[Dark Hart]

okay, cosmo, but only if you come to TO6 and teach me your ways

 

[XAQ]

does zeldas dair have a sweetspot?

 

[EPsilon933]

does zeldas dair have a sweetspot?

Not in Melee. barlw Zelda does.

 

[TheLake]

Cosmo....

I love you

your kick pressure is nuts and your recoveries are on point

my zelda wants to have sex with your zelda

IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN ;D

sheiks gay

 

[DoH]

Cosmo I've been watching a lot of your sets and I feel like a lot of times you throw out moves hoping they run into them (which sometimes works) but sometimes you just get dd camped and then lolimfoxheres70percent. So maybe after you throw out a tilt to bait either use d/usmash or wd back or light shield so if they come in for an attack you're out of the way or hit them before they get a string off. Also I feel like you should be using more upsmash oos, and going for less grabs

 

[TheLake]

Hes baiting not just throwing out moves master DOH

Upsmash out of OOS is overratted

its viable on falco but not like fox

i like that he grabs

its unexpected and can be pretty devestating

 

[Deleted member]

Cosmo I've been watching a lot of your sets and I feel like a lot of times you throw out moves hoping they run into them (which sometimes works) but sometimes you just get dd camped and then lolimfoxheres70percent. So maybe after you throw out a tilt to bait either use d/usmash or wd back or light shield so if they come in for an attack you're out of the way or hit them before they get a string off. Also I feel like you should be using more upsmash oos, and going for less grabs

1. upsmash oos is trash vs fox.
2. this character loses to DD camping anyway.

 

[EPsilon933]

I'm starting to copy that one bthrow toe toe gimp, and it ***** because it's so ****. And then when Falco/Falcon/Fox expects the bthow, I surprise them with dthrow and they just don't DI properly and get short hop toed. I think I should try this on fast fallers that know how to DI well.

 

[GKInfinity]

Upsmash OoS can be good but it shouldn't be used too often. If your opponent can smash DI out of it (and most will after playing against you a few times) you'll likely get punished. Zelda's grab does suck, but it can still lead to some pretty good damage if you manage to get one. Pressure with kicks and get your opponent scared, then go for grabs when it's more likely that your opponent's gonna shield when you approach.

 

[Cosmo!]

lol thanks lake, we should team at the next tourney we're both at, it would be ridiculous zelda ****


@DoH I love upsmash OoS vs falco but I think its pretty bad against fox because he simply falls out of it if he gets hit by it while its on the ground; falco gets caught in it a lot more because he is tall, same with other chars


re: Bthrow gimp, i think you HAVE to read their recovery because fox/falco have too many options, they still will have double jump, illusion (or shortened), shinestall, fastfall down, upB from high or low... if theres some way to react or guarentee more kills out of a bthrow that would be cool but I think the spacies have so many options that you MUST guess correctly


re: grabbing, I think I would have lost match 2 against kels if I didnt grab him at the end. I think grabbing is legit; doesn't matter that it is slow because if they are in defensive mode they will stay in their shield, those couple extra frames aren't enough to make the grab a dead end mixup


i tried picking up sheik for falcon cause I think i suck @ that matchup but here's a story from SCSYN3:

i beat fluxwolf (fox) round 1 and then waiting on winner of BigD and Bigy (2 midwest falcons), BigD had beaten me before, but lake beat him at pound so its definitely possible, just very hard. Turns out Bigy won, and I go sheik against his falcon round 1. He devastates me, I go zelda for the next 2 games and win both. hilarious. my sheik is now reserved for sheik dittos only

 

[TheLake]

I like doing that sheik/zelda tag thing

its a fun mix up

and its fun on falcon

especially if you know how to use zelda lol

cause he cant do anything :D

sort of...*sigh*

HOLY SNAP

next huge tourney we are both at

we teamin son

and we gonnna fuuuck eeeeveryone up!

 

[Cosmo!]

wow, her fukken leg is invinco

not to mention this hitbox is out on frame 4

look @ this move

jeeeezus zelda *****

...

having fun with dolphin lol

 

[Iron Dragon]

hey im playing zelda a bit because i think shes **** =D.

cosmo i have a question, if ur in the middle of a stage on a non-FD stage and u cant CG a spacie with ur throw do u just use dthrow?

and if so then is there any good way to tech chase the opponent? they always DI away and tech away cuz they know zelda is slow so they can get away so even when i run and dash attack the closest i get is right in front of their shield LOL. i'm thinking about trying run in and fair but once again idk if i'd get there in time.

also, do you think there are any useful situations to use her neutral B besides against falco? if so could you please share with me =D. and also i'd like to know what situations you use her nair in if any at all.

i think i've got a good idea of stuff to do with her down but when getting down to the specifics i'm a bit stupid since i kinda just started her =p. any advice at all besides the stuff i asked would greatly help/be appreciated cosmo =D.

 

[Cosmo!]

I rarely use dthrow, especially vs spacies

i'd still rather uthrow, if they don't DI to a plat you can CG/kick, if they do DI to a platform I can either get a nair, guess their tech for a kick, or play platform mindgames with them (lol), which can lead to more grabs or other things

"techchasing" on platforms with nair is usually the safest way to gain a little extra percent if I dont have a strong read on them

that said, if any of you figure out how to make dthrow real good (a bit away from the ledge, facing towards stage perhaps?) then lets discuss it !

ledgehop nair is really really good, you should use it a lot imo. you can combo floaties with 3 nairs if the first one is ledgehopped. and kick them if looks like it might work, instead of another nair. nair is also good when like they are shielding and you know a kick will not sweetspot

here's the scenario: you sourspot a kick on their shield and they punish you oos for it with haste. that sucks, and happens often. if you do a nair here instead, especially like non-fastfall nair and grind their shield as much as you can, you can get shieldpokes or simply give them a strange shieldpressure situation that they may not have an instinctual answer to (a good opponent will likely punish the sourspot kick, but not this) especially if you can get behind their shield while doing this. makes it awkward for them.

sometimes i use nayru's when im already fastfalling and in front of their shield and I know I cannot do a nair safely like I described above; I've already committed to falling towards their shield, do nayru's love here and the extra time the move lasts might make them jump the gun on a shieldgrab / oos punish and then they will get hit by NL. (this is sort of a gimmick) lol. overall NL is kinda bad but is useful in certain situations, not many of them come to mind right now though, not a great move, also: it only hits to the sides.

 

[Dark Hart]

I used NL to edge guard sometimes lol and to punish missed techs at the edge.

 

[Iron Dragon]

I rarely use dthrow, especially vs spacies

i'd still rather uthrow, if they don't DI to a plat you can CG/kick, if they do DI to a platform I can either get a nair, guess their tech for a kick, or play platform mindgames with them (lol), which can lead to more grabs or other things

"techchasing" on platforms with nair is usually the safest way to gain a little extra percent if I dont have a strong read on them

that said, if any of you figure out how to make dthrow real good (a bit away from the ledge, facing towards stage perhaps?) then lets discuss it !

ledgehop nair is really really good, you should use it a lot imo. you can combo floaties with 3 nairs if the first one is ledgehopped. and kick them if looks like it might work, instead of another nair. nair is also good when like they are shielding and you know a kick will not sweetspot

here's the scenario: you sourspot a kick on their shield and they punish you oos for it with haste. that sucks, and happens often. if you do a nair here instead, especially like non-fastfall nair and grind their shield as much as you can, you can get shieldpokes or simply give them a strange shieldpressure situation that they may not have an instinctual answer to (a good opponent will likely punish the sourspot kick, but not this) especially if you can get behind their shield while doing this. makes it awkward for them.

sometimes i use nayru's when im already fastfalling and in front of their shield and I know I cannot do a nair safely like I described above; I've already committed to falling towards their shield, do nayru's love here and the extra time the move lasts might make them jump the gun on a shieldgrab / oos punish and then they will get hit by NL. (this is sort of a gimmick) lol. overall NL is kinda bad but is useful in certain situations, not many of them come to mind right now though, not a great move, also: it only hits to the sides.

thanks for all the help

i've found actually that when getting away from fox's uthrow uair, i can mindgame with NL sometimes. if my opponent is too slow i can either jump, kick or NL and it usually works out decently because when i DI their uthrow the uair will only hit me from the side so if i get out NL in time it will hit them away from me. i like it because adding another option to get away from something as big as that is pretty helpful imo.

i sometimes think of NL as like...fox's shine or something. if a marth is trying to be too aggressive on me i can NL to hit them away if i cant kick in time.

thanks for everything either way though <3. i love watching your zelda

 

[Cosmo!]

**** yeaaaa

 

[TheLake]

I used NL to edge guard sometimes lol and to punish missed techs at the edge.

*tries not to cry* why...WHY GOD WHY!!!

 

[EPsilon933]

I use Nayru's Love to confuse scrub laser spamming Falcos. They get so confused when they get hit by their own lasers. =D

 

[Dark Hart]

*tries not to cry* why...WHY GOD WHY!!!

Because I'm DIFFERENT!!!

 

[GKInfinity]

**** yeaaaa

Is that guaranteed? And at what percent? Couldn't falcon just re-grab after you airdodge, then dthrow and go for the knee again? O_o

 

[Cosmo!]

Is that guaranteed? And at what percent? Couldn't falcon just re-grab after you airdodge, then dthrow and go for the knee again? O_o

Yes, all percents, yes he can regrab again rofl, I was thinking about messing with other options like airdodge down+away instead but that is cutting it real close