The Salt Factory - Mafia Metagame Discussion Thread

[#HBC | Ryker]

Certain roles demand a counter but overall the total power of each side needs to be equivalent. Information roles lioe cop n tracker require it for the most part but theres jot quite a oerfect counter to a mason for example
And it depends on the pr. Ive seen cop variants that send their results to other people in lieu of actually getting a result

If a role REQUIRES a counter, it is almost certainly a bad role and your set-up is too swingy.

 

[Maven89]

I'm not really sure about what a census taker does, but in that scenario you described, what if the census taker is the first one to die? I was thinking you didn't want to balance a team around having one role available?

 

[Gova]

I've only seen the variation of census taker that gets information regarding the amount of mafia on the lynch at the end of the day. Usually it's a one shot-type thing since it's a very powerful role.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

If a role REQUIRES a counter, it is almost certainly a bad role and your set-up is too swingy.

I agree

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think Census Taker is awesome and should be tried more.

 

[Overswarm]

I can't find the spider webbin' post either.

 

[Maven89]

What about a game where there's a public tracker mechanic, flavor having it be a role though not played by anyone or counted, where players vote on who they want to be tracked and have the results posted publicly? The vote would require a plurality, since it's public it'd serve more as a role block or could possibly validate a claim. The game would be balanced around this mechanic. Thought it could be an interesting idea, maybe for a mini.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

That sounds pretty cool but I have no idea how it could be balanced.

 

[Wots All This Then?]

What about a game where there's a public tracker mechanic, flavor having it be a role though not played by anyone or counted, where players vote on who they want to be tracked and have the results posted publicly? The vote would require a plurality, since it's public it'd serve more as a role block or could possibly validate a claim. The game would be balanced around this mechanic. Thought it could be an interesting idea, maybe for a mini.

Ehhhhhh. I have reservations. Less ability to block it for maf to a degree

 

[Kantrip]

That's not the issue. Mafia doesn't need to block a role when they know exactly what it's going to do. Not only would the team be able to put their influence in to try to sway the track to the target of their choosing, but they would also know when they are going to be tracked and can adjust accordingly, making the ability effectively useless.

Voting publicly on a flat-out cop would at least make mafia actually care enough to make sure it doesn't hit one of them, but then the issue of that being overpowered as **** comes into play.

Something like a bulletproof for the Night, a double-vote, or roleblocking the majority vote would probably be more feasible. Could be an interesting mechanic depending on the rest of the set-up.

 

[Ashemu]

godfather owns actually, include it in every set-up, even ones without cops

 

[#HBC | Kary]

What about a game where there's a public tracker mechanic, flavor having it be a role though not played by anyone or counted, where players vote on who they want to be tracked and have the results posted publicly? The vote would require a plurality, since it's public it'd serve more as a role block or could possibly validate a claim. The game would be balanced around this mechanic. Thought it could be an interesting idea, maybe for a mini.

if you're voting on who gets tracked the Day before it happens, its virtually useless at catching mafia because they will always have someone else who can do the action.

if you're voting the Day after to track someone from the Night before, that's a different story and is more interesting. That being said, it does make your game more complicated.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I like that complication. I also like the idea of having varied powers available. My way of balancing it would be to include it as a role actually, but a passive one where the only input is maybe the power selected. It seems like a neat role that allows a player to have influence on the game. That said, it also requires the player to be active and an inactive player can absolutely ruin it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Could work, but is boring.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I mean, no ****, but not every role can be Raz's role from FFT.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

The concept is boring. It's undefeatable if Town acts even semi responsibly. The interaction is boring, as are most long term effects in the hands of town as a whole.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Does it have to be town? This looks like a case for an indy that isn't just for the sake of having an indy.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Maybe, but I'd have to see some conolvoluted scenario where there isn't a better option for it.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Yeh, that's what I was feeling.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

hey, remember when setups were good?

Spoiler

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

hey, remember when setups were good?

Spoiler

http://smashboards.com/threads/blazblue-mafia-game-over-ouroboros-breaks-the-cycle.372795/

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

4 one shot BPs.
1 town jailer, opens a convo with a player during the night and can kill the target or not but only can use it on a no lynch.
1 town agent. Can send private anon messages to non town roles.
1 mafia spy, can contact every role in the game with anon messages.
1 serial killer

Thoughts on this set-up? Serial killer and Spy can joint. Open set-up.

 

[Maven89]

I don't see how the agent or spy could make strong use of their roles

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Spy and agent are argueing with the serial killer abd trying to privately contact.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

sounds like an extremely strong town, an extremely weak mafia, and with the sk, a game that can end after N1.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

4 bps and a jailer gog bless never die

spy sounds like an interesting informative role but the rest of that set-up is dysfunctional at best.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm open to suggestions for it to work in forum mafia.

this is a set-up I found to be very interesting.

4 bps and a jailer gog bless never die

spy sounds like an interesting informative role but the rest of that set-up is dysfunctional at best.

@ #HBC | Laundry I kinda get why but it seems like this set-up worked on other forums, but I would like to fine tune it as an open set-up on what could be made to make it better.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

-4 bps is a start

Agent is useless in open set-up.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The idea is to make it so the killer and spy can't joint unless with good play they can trust each other.

otherwise I was going to host this.

4 Vts.
1 cop
2 mafia
1 oracle/doctor/gunsmith/bomb randomly selected. Oracle publicly reveals a player when killed and gunsmith hands out day kill guns. This role is randomly selected.

Trying to think of a unique open set-up that isn't Fire and Lighting right now.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

The idea is to make it so the killer and spy can't joint unless with good play they can trust each other.

otherwise I was going to host this.

4 Vts.
1 cop
2 mafia
1 oracle/doctor/gunsmith/bomb randomly selected. Oracle publicly reveals a player when killed and gunsmith hands out day kill guns. This role is randomly selected.

Trying to think of a unique open set-up that isn't Fire and Lighting right now.

What do 4 bps do to accomplish that goal? The agent is useless because nobody's gonna be like "I got a random message" when it's public information that antitown roles are the only one that gets those PMS. Random ones from the spy don't create nearly enough wifom to balance that. All it does is create a free counterclaim scenario

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

What do 4 bps do to accomplish that goal? The agent is useless because nobody's gonna be like "I got a random message" when it's public information that antitown roles are the only one that gets those PMS. Random ones from the spy don't create nearly enough wifom to balance that. All it does is create a free counterclaim scenario

The 4 Bps are meant to create wifom on if they were hit or not during night phases.

Agent is not useless it is meant to make the serial killer question the messages f it is from the Spy or not.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

1) That's such awful reasoning. You're so set on the joint that your set-up forces it to be the most optimal play for the SK to win the game. 2/3s of your town is immune to NKs and whenever their BP gets popped, there's a jailer to protect them again, regardless of if the BP knows they got popped or not. SK basically gets a shot every other night unless he guesses accurately and finds a crumb. He could do well if he pairs with the Mafia but, again, that's the point: you're forcing him to joint in order to do anything at all or spend every other night doing nothing in an 8-man game. That's absurd.

2) This doubly ****s the SK then, because the Agent is effectively useless in finding the mafia.

Like, really, why have an SK at all at that point? Just have him be a second mafia with a strongman kill and be done with it.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

1) That's such awful reasoning. You're so set on the joint that your set-up forces it to be the most optimal play for the SK to win the game. 2/3s of your town is immune to NKs and whenever their BP gets popped, there's a jailer to protect them again, regardless of if the BP knows they got popped or not. SK basically gets a shot every other night unless he guesses accurately and finds a crumb. He could do well if he pairs with the Mafia but, again, that's the point: you're forcing him to joint in order to do anything at all or spend every other night doing nothing in an 8-man game. That's absurd.

2) This doubly ****s the SK then, because the Agent is effectively useless in finding the mafia.

Like, really, why have an SK at all at that point? Just have him be a second mafia with a strongman kill and be done with it.

jailer doesn't protect, it takes you to a private convo during the night and the jailer decides to either kill or let the other person live. I should have used a different name.

The idea is that people only get cleared when hit, but they might not be hit since all kills are optional. Serial Killer and Spy perform different roles in this bu I wonder if the serial killer needs more to do.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Naw, the 4 BPs just need to do a lot less. B(

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I could always throw in a jester.

Hmm...either way I will run the other set-up me thinks.

That or my trademarked Jester Mafia.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I'm thinking of running an FF6 Mafia in an attempt to top @ Overswarm 's edition.

 

[Orboknown]

Thats a tall order there

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

That's why I want to try!

 

[Orboknown]

I respect that
Good luck

 

[Overswarm]

it cannot be done

My FF6 game is also a one-shot though, can't really play it easily a second time. FF4 and Tactics were easier to re-run, but I still feel FF6 was better overall for players.