The Salt Factory - Mafia Metagame Discussion Thread

[#HBC | Ryker]

I redid it once with slight modification to run with one less player and a different flavor. It worked pretty well, but it worked based on the fact that

1.) I wasn't you, so they didn't recognize it.
2.) It had been like 3 years, so they didn't recognize it.
3.) No one remembered it, so they didn't recognize it.

But no I would not be attempting to re-run it. However, I do think FF6 was the best game run on this site.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

i personally think celebrity rehab mafia was the best game run on his site but i mean thats just me

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

i personally think celebrity rehab mafia was the best game run on his site but i mean thats just me

I enjoyed it.

Only had one complaint but it would be a minor one.

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I've thought about doing a store-based game where players start with x amount of gold and gained gold per post. They could use the gold per twilight phase to gain certain things but that was as far as I got before I decided I didn't wanna run HunterxHunter mafia.

 

[JayTheUnseen]

I've thought about doing a store-based game where players start with x amount of gold and gained gold per post. They could use the gold per twilight phase to gain certain things but that was as far as I got before I decided I didn't wanna run HunterxHunter mafia.

I think you and Gheb were on the same train of thought:http://smashboards.com/threads/ghebs-crazy-auction-mafia.393934/

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Something like that, yeh. I'd run the mechanics of it differently than him and give players less money to start with (the whole idea about gaining gold per post is admittedly a cheap and easy way to force artificial activity), but that idea was even done in HunterxHunter, where Zen had an in-game shop distributing items to players as well for fees, I think.

Hilariously, the idea came to me when I was considering Dota 2 Mafia. It was somewhat of a joke but I wanted to make a game balanced by the fact that every role in it was broken and started considering other bad mechanics to make the game silly. One of them was having an in-game shop and I realized the whole idea could be made into a standalone game relatively well. Gheb just beat me to the punch, and Zen before the both of us.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I dunno how Zen ran HunterxHunter, I think it's slightly different but I haven't read it. The setup I'm using is actually open and has only vanilla roles. Gaining Gold per post is too easy to abuse too so I'd advice against that.

My source of inspiration for this was actually marshy's pyp game though. I think the concept of having players have influence over the setup to some extent is awesome and can be adopted in a lot a different ways to make games more exciting for the players. I'll probably run an adaption of my age-old muppets mafia in the future as well. It was a kingmaker game where the players secretly elected a king each Night phase. Next time I'll try out voting the king publicly during the Day phase and have him make a decision in twilight phase. I think that'll work.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

kingmaker is the bomb

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I dunno how Zen ran HunterxHunter, I think it's slightly different but I haven't read it. The setup I'm using is actually open and has only vanilla roles. Gaining Gold per post is too easy to abuse too so I'd advice against that.

My source of inspiration for this was actually marshy's pyp game though. I think the concept of having players have influence over the setup to some extent is awesome and can be adopted in a lot a different ways to make games more exciting for the players. I'll probably run an adaption of my age-old muppets mafia in the future as well. It was a kingmaker game where the players secretly elected a king each Night phase. Next time I'll try out voting the king publicly during the Day phase and have him make a decision in twilight phase. I think that'll work.

Zen was a player (he and Soup were a hydra who's indy role ran the store). Rajam ran it.

Also, PYP is cool. @Vult Redux

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Hmm OK, I guess I'll read through it one of these days.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

It was very complex and came down to a quickdraw based on game mechanics. While I won the quickdraw and greatly enjoyed winning the game after chasing Zen the entire game with both of us having each other pinned dead to rights, mechanics based endings are generally lame.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I'm not a fan of games where you have to be first to the punch, i.e. online at a specific time. Games can reward activity, sure, but spamming refresh just so I win an auction is like... ugh.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

In unrelated news, I was remembering the other day how I defended the new dgames no queue system on the grounds that we shouldn't knock it til we've tried it. I feel like it might have been six months since it started, wonder if people have any thoughts now about how it's gone? I myself wonder what the games still lost in the queue look like.

Personally, on one hand I've not really been feeling mafia in general. On the other hand, I feel like I often used to see setups that appealed to me back in the old days, whereas now i'm not drawn to the games i'm seeing at all.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I just think the flavors and set-ups people have chosen to run are not interesting. Nor are people campaigning to run things.

I filled mine pretty much instantly when I wanted Chrono Phantasma to play and it was a larger than normal set-up. However, the current mafia set-ups don't interest me. The only one I'd play is Dietz's game because I know Dietz was super hype to run it, but I don't really know if I'd have the time.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

well i mean the prospect of playing mafia SHOULD be enough to entice anybody to play a closed setup imho. what dafuq even is flavor in the end aside from some aesthetic role playing element? if time and effort are taken toward integration of flavor and game than thats a plus. but i dont think the opposite should negate one from wanting to play a game. ive never ever ever played ff6 or saw community or really keep up with comic books. but i like mafia as a game, so i play.

now, if i dont like an open setup, sure i wont play. but obv its cuz i know the setup and dont wanna experience it.

 

[Overswarm]

I miss hosting mafia games. I'm tempted to host another, but I just have so much on my plate *all the time*.

I have a Death Note setup I never ran that had no Night/Day phases that I wanted to run that contained real-world prizes. I was tempted to do it but really the only way to run such a game was to have an entry fee -- I was going to do $5 amazon gift cards as entry fee and give out amazon gift cards + a mystery prize at the end, but I never ended up doing it because it'd take a lot of work and I didn't feel like trying to convince people to play en masse.

The setup was pretty genius, but mandated an entry fee. The idea being if someone was inactive, this was good for you, so it wasn't like "oh man this game sucks everyone stopped playing" but more "YES MORE FOR ME".

If people are still interested you can badger me about it. I miss you guys. <3

 

[Overswarm]

also, I'm turning ****ing 30 this year

I want to say I don't feel old, but I now have a house, wife, dog named Lucca, a full time job, and all my part-time hobbies are like second jobs with financial ends. It's weird.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

That's happening to DGames across the board. You're just a little bit ahead.

 

[Overswarm]

turning 30 or having setups with entry fees and prizes

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Turning 30. I don't think you've got a chance of getting a decent turnout for a mafia game with an entry fee, though I'd try it.

 

[BarDulL]

i was considering doing a mafia game with an entry fee and prizes as well just as a test run to see how much it affects gameplay. if you ever get the game off the ground i'll definitely ante up.

 

[Overswarm]

The Death Note game actually has it set up to where you can earn money by playing the game -- not necessarily by winning. It would actually be part of the game mechanics, no joke.

Any money NOT found by the players during the game would be given to the winning players / MVPs.

 

[Ashemu]

well i mean the prospect of playing mafia SHOULD be enough to entice anybody to play a closed setup imho. what dafuq even is flavor in the end aside from some aesthetic role playing element? if time and effort are taken toward integration of flavor and game than thats a plus. but i dont think the opposite should negate one from wanting to play a game. ive never ever ever played ff6 or saw community or really keep up with comic books. but i like mafia as a game, so i play.

yeah. also flavor is the worst part of hosting mafia because i'm not funny or interesting. i wish i could just give a name and an ability description and everybody who knows the source material figures out the flavor via psychic link.

flavor draws in people who play but aren't interested in mafia alone though.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

The Death Note game actually has it set up to where you can earn money by playing the game -- not necessarily by winning. It would actually be part of the game mechanics, no joke.

Any money NOT found by the players during the game would be given to the winning players / MVPs.

I've thinking of doing this for DGames but if I did I would need to pull all I could for my best set-up.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I don't know, i'm a sucker for flavour that interests me and is well done. But it's also about the game mechanics and the way that it's run, i'm thinking of Kata's Tekken, or Circus's Fire Emblem mafia, where there's something going on kinda in tandem with the basics of mafia that changes it up and makes it more interesting. Hell, my Tranquility mafia was probably a complete flavor fail overall, but the basic setup (inno child + bodyguard vs rolecop) is twice as interesting to me as another cop/doc roleblocker 9 man open.

yadda yadda yadda yadda yadda

 

[Maven89]

So going back to the last completed game I played (Creepy Candy Store mafia), I seem to have real problems actually telling what is scummy behavior. Despite being here for 4 months and (I think) very noticeably improving, I don't seem to have any real understanding of what makes a player scum or not. I've been looking for flip flopping, people faking reads, and people being caught in lies, as well as sheeping, but if I have ever made a legitimate push on a scum player I don't remember it. Every time I seem to be dead wrong and lynching a townie.

I keep intending to ask this question but I'm always in a current mafia game, so I'm just asking anyways. This is something I really need help on

 

[JeXs]

trust your gut and yolo

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

I wanna run a game myself but given the grumblings about my balancing and such I have no idea how I'd pull people in for a game.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

dawg maven

observing your play, its interesting you say this because you DO seem to catch onto scummy play. you just find something else and dont really stick to it. try weighing the peculiar actions that you notice others doing and decide whether theyre worth pursuing, understandable from a towny, or not totally discernable. if you want to look into what piques your personal interest, interrogate. you dont need to come out the gate with definite conviction when you address somebody. ulterior motives are allowed to exist and have non malicious undertones at the same time. so dont be afraid to just poke at what looks interesting, and decide what of what you see IS something that seems mafia-influenced.

when seeing somebody else's case, use the same thought processing BOTH the genuineness of the casemaker, and the accuracy of what is being said.

but yea your problem isnt finding scummy play.

 

[Overswarm]

seriously who wants to play my special mafia game that has money involved

100% of money going in goes out

and you can trap people with money traps

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

interest piqued but i must read rules before i accept

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I wanna run a game myself but given the grumblings about my balancing and such I have no idea how I'd pull people in for a game.

I'll take a look at it. If it has the Gheb seal of approval, people will surely join!

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

seriously who wants to play my special mafia game that has money involved

100% of money going in goes out

and you can trap people with money traps

Sure.

 

[Overswarm]

That's 1. Need more.

Would be played with amazon gift cards.

 

[Orboknown]

I wanna run a game myself but given the grumblings about my balancing and such I have no idea how I'd pull people in for a game.

id play

 

[#HBC | Kary]

So going back to the last completed game I played (Creepy Candy Store mafia), I seem to have real problems actually telling what is scummy behavior. Despite being here for 4 months and (I think) very noticeably improving, I don't seem to have any real understanding of what makes a player scum or not. I've been looking for flip flopping, people faking reads, and people being caught in lies, as well as sheeping, but if I have ever made a legitimate push on a scum player I don't remember it. Every time I seem to be dead wrong and lynching a townie.

I keep intending to ask this question but I'm always in a current mafia game, so I'm just asking anyways. This is something I really need help on

There is no one thing that makes a player scum or not. Some people lurk as scum, others become very active. The trick is to look at what a player is doing (and what they're not doing), and trying to figure out what mindset that comes from. Question players about their votes, about their reads, and push them on things that don't seem to add up. Look for players being defensive, or not pulling their weight. But most of all, learn from your mistakes and don't repeat them.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Maven, do you have Skype?

 

[Overswarm]

one thing that makes people scum is getting the scum role

checkmate, Kary

 

[#HBC | Kary]

 

[Fire Emblemier]

I realize I'm pretty bad at mafia and while I can see how I can improve, it just doesn't seem to work out when I actually try to make steps to make myself better. It doesn't help that I suddenly seem to be getting busier and busier. I'm starting to enjoy spectating games more than playing them, I feel I can understand where players are coming from without the tension involved in playing. I might just need to make setups rather than play 'em.