The Salt Factory - Mafia Metagame Discussion Thread

[RadicalRat]

Well, in the latter situation, the Mafia would lose.

The Town's goal is to end the killing( with more killing ) and if the Mafia just up and stops killing, they can't ever gain a majority, therefore they lose.

Optimal play isn't never doing anything, it's choosing when best to act.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Yes, that's a pretty concept, but under the rules of the game that you set forward, they are playing the game optimally by suplanting the idea behind it. This is WHY you make the mafia NKill compulsive. It stops you from being able to reach a point where optimal play does not line up with the concept of the game.

 

[RadicalRat]

Hm... What about a semi-compulsive kill?

Say, you can skip the kill one night to be tactical, but the next night you're required to?

 

[#HBC | J]

Keep NK's non-compulsive and if there is a player worth their salt in mafia they will use that option to semi-clear themselves to town's who wouldn't know better. Complusive NKs are how you lock mafia into positions since they already have an advantage at the start of the game.

Personal experience, non-compulsive NKs have helped me almost too much to succeed in games when I am scum and I even find it a bit unecessary. Sending "No Kill" is also against Mafia win-condition in most cases. Non-compulsive is really bad in the late game and may seem like a cool "Great strategy!" when it really is just a "Welp."

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

It's just not fun for town to have everything be thrown into question. That's why Godfather is a **** move. That's why insane cop is trash as well. You need set rules so players can solve the puzzle. What you see as a cool strategy is simply taking a piece of the puzzle from town away.

 

[Orboknown]

I avoid non killing unless it's literally dont do this or you get ****ed like my newbie game

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

short: if your game doesnt have compulsory nk's from the mafia team or the sk your game is not being run well

long: mafia night kills should absolutely NOT be something which mafia should have a choice of doing. setting up a situation in which the town has completely ridiculous hoopla and wifom thrown around is something the mafia should devise, not something they should just easily be able to do either cuz "lol we got lucky." im NOT okay with godfathers or (uninformed/informed with no extra goodies) millers because they deliberately **** on a power role and serve no purpose other than to **** on a power role. its an undeserved advantage given to the mafia. im NOT okay with the option to choose whether or not the mafia kills during a certain Night phase because, when the win condition is to outnumber the town, in the most basic of definitions, not performing an action designed to lower the town count is fundamentally AGAINST that wincon. it is an unfair, unclever, ridiculous way of ****ting on town that nobody should ever feel proud about doing. i ran an open game with a tracker where i stated that if no NK is sent, the kill was not only randomized, but that the player performing the action will vary depending on whether or not the tracker tracked EITHER of the two mafia members. i plan on keeping to that rule in any future game i host because of how awful i think non compulsory kills are to the fundamentals of mafia.

/rant

also g **** @BarDulL on your flavor for me in that revival of dgames mafia, **** had me laughing

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Just posting this here before I lose the thought:

Having modded my most recent game, I feel that DGames has circumvented back to the issue that marshy was trying to prevent back in his heyday, which is playing towards deadline, not using it as a crutch. Scum often use the fact of town scrambling towards a lynch near deadline more to their advantage instead of things just happening in a more raw format where people state commitment clearly. The stagnation just gives scum more wiggle room and allows townies to be even more misguided as they're all caught up in their own ideals to collectively decide on one lynch.

This isn't to say that I immediately agree with just #HBC no matter the circumstance, and that it's good to step back and consider things, but do it in moderation. Don't let reads stagnate and don't just sit there waiting for something to happen. Make it happen. People have become spineless as of late and scum is taking advantage that town no longer has a backbone who can't just get their hands dirty without going on about postulating theories.

If you or any member of town has a strong feeling towards something, vote it. **** the naysayers who say you're scummy. Action is better than no action and there will be time to question things later down the line, but playing the game backwards where you sit there and question everything and then decide on a lynch is dumb. You can scumhunt while voting someone, and your main target isn't just your only target. Let's get out of this slump as soon as possible. I believe the future of DGames can be bright and ballin' like marshy would say

NEVER FORGET

​

I F YOU WERE LYNCHED TOMORROW, I WOULDN'T GO 2 YOUR FUNERAL CAUSE ID BE THE FIRST TO VOTE THE SCUMBAG 4 KILLING THE SUCKA THAT KILLED YOU.
WE TRUE HOMIES.
WE RIDE TOGETHER.
WE DIE TOGETHER.
send A GUN to everyone you care about, including me if you care. See how many times this GUN is sent to you, if you get 13 your A TRUE HOMIE

…|..____________________, ,
/ `—___________—-_____|] = • = ]]]]]]]]]]. /
/_=;;;;;;;;_______./
), —.(_(__) /
// (..) ), —-”
//____//
//____//
//____//​

​

 

[ranmaru]

Don't forget about not compromising. If people compromised on Orange in your game we'd have scum. Yet we gave him the opportunity to make a better impression in a 1v1v1 scenario. (Yes at that point I decided wrong)

 

[~ Gheb ~]

stuff

I find this quite hypocritical, coming from you.

 

[Orboknown]

I mean, he does vote and try to push stuff to lynch before deadline.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

And he's the first to 'complain' when he's the one who ends up getting bodied.

#HBC is generally not recommended. It's a good strat when you can play like marshy. It's a terrible strat if you can't ... and most people can't.

 

[ranmaru]

I say, #HBC if people have a strong belief that a person is scum. Stop dragging things out unless there are topics or people that need to contribute. Also, Orange was dragging it out when he already won. >.>

People can't learn to lead without actually using the method of leading... meaning, we need to force players to step up, even if they suck. They'll get better at if they just do it. I'll go into a secret with you guys, and tell you that when I was pledged, my whole pledge class was forced to step up and lead, and get a backbone.

---

 

[ranmaru]

I'm going to say it right now. I think the system right now sucks. I feel since the que has been abolished, things have gone to ****. I propose we implement the que again, with people that are active. I say this because, with the que, we get hyped up about games that come up. So people are able to build up a sign-up list, and have time to plan for it. Plus, people know ahead of time that things are happening, and may even replace. With the way things are set up, we don't really know if things happen until a person posts a thread for sign-ups.

I also propose we host newbies again. Some new players come in to Dgames without a clue how to play or just don't understand our meta, and towns just go wrong. I read one game where Bardull was lynched, and I cringed when reading that game. The new players have potential but they come in thinking they know how to play the way we play, and we have to haze them.

Thoughts?

 

[Orboknown]

Honestly, i like the game just showing up. It also feels like the system would work more if it was actually used ibsteas of people just waiting for the game to finish

 

[#HBC | Kary]

I'm so glad we called this thread The Salt Factory

 

[#HBC | Laundry]

Nah, I think the queue was awful. Games stalled in sign-ups forever and nobody wants to come up with a set-up and then delay running it for a year because of how long it took to get through the queue. Current system is much better. Undertale mafia filled incredibly quickly and drew in a couple of names I've not seen play mafia in a long while. You just have to entice players to play the game and flavor is a good way of doing that. I'm going to be hosting a few opens after the holidays end and I have a bit more time as well to try to get more games going on.

On the topic of issues with DGames' play:
-Far too much inactivity. This has been a rampant problem in the past few games where enough inactive players force the game into a bad state.
-Too many awful, awful playstyles of mafia that have been built up for far too long off meta passes and the like. Some of you are attempting to fix your problems but there's a definite stubbornness to the playstyles that keeps them persistent rather than just accepting that they're awful.
-Hard to set good examples for new players when good players are gone or deliberately not playing games. Even then, some of those better players don't set the best examples (see: Ryker). This just breeds more bad playstyles as people realize you can earn a meta pass after playing like **** for long enough.
-A lot of nebulous bull**** in games. Be direct. Be clear. Stick your neck out. You're town, you have nothing to be afraid of. That caution and fear of doing anything makes you look more suspicious than you are. I'd rather have a bunch of games filled with players like Ryker/Rake/Maven trying **** to get the game moving than J/Orbo/Soup doing ****all and spewing vague information throughout the entire thing. At least the former group shares their homework with the thread and their actions are readable.

Also, in regards to Ranmaru's comments about being leaders: not everybody in mafia has to be a leader. In fact, it's better if there's just one anchor for town at a time (somebody needs to set up if that anchor dies though). People need to learn to be leaders as well as followers in this game, otherwise you end up with too many people vying for the thread control when they don't need to and making a mess of things.

 

[ranmaru]

Also, in regards to Ranmaru's comments about being leaders: not everybody in mafia has to be a leader. In fact, it's better if there's just one anchor for town at a time (somebody needs to set up if that anchor dies though). People need to learn to be leaders as well as followers in this game, otherwise you end up with too many people vying for the thread control when they don't need to and making a mess of things.

I agree fully on this. My point isn't that everyone all lead together. In my pledge class one person had to lead and then another. What I'm saying is, people should be forced to rotate. (Maybe that is what you mean by anchor?) Or at least, people should really consider trying to lead, even if we don't 'force' them to, because someone has to lead. They are the leaders of tomorrow, so they must learn today. Obviously, that means a group of leaders must be humble enough to be lead by others especially if they don't have the best leads that day. I agree that we need to follow as well and I am fine with doing either. If I have no good reads I'd follow my town reads.

Also, I still feel we should host newbies que or not. That might help newer players have an environment where they can learn to play and improve.

 

[Orboknown]

The minis where supposed to be the newbie games, considering we barely drew in enough new people for a newbie

 

[Maven89]

I think some of this is exaggeration. It's not like we've had horrible replacement problems until the current ongoing game, which is also happening during Christmas so it's not surprising. At least I don't remember there being horrible replacement problems?

We also do have mini newbie games, but sometimes they just get filled with experienced players.

On the other issue, I think people don't want to change. When I first came here, I was horrible. First game I played, players were saying "summarize what Maven is saying because I'm not reading that crap again". I insisted it was Jex/another player based on their connection, turned out to be Jex/someone else. Now, I could have been "See guys I was 50% right we should have just lynched Jex, but noo you guys wanted to shut me down", but I was actually 0% right. I thought Jex was scum due to connections that didn't exist, that means my Jex scum read was wrong and false, even though Jex was scum. The fact that I read him scum when he was scum was actually just luck. I realized this and recognized that I played poorly, and so tried to change because I don't want to be bad at something.

I rarely see that later line today. Now it's just "Nah, I was entirely wrong but it's your guys fault anyways that you lynched me", or "Well that's just how I play". Both of those can be replaced with

Like, I know it really sucks to be called out for horrible play and you take it personally. I definitely took it personally when Laundry railed on me for voting Glyph and got really pissed at him. Problem was he was right and I was wrong, and so I just have to accept that now and improve on it so I don't make the same mistake again in a later game.

The only meta excuse I accept is Orbo's, because he's in the military and has to phone post. No one else's counts.

 

[ranmaru]

Although I remember we had a 5-day deadline for Soup's game. I think we'd need more time for deadline, as we are all getting busier. That and holidays may have been a factor. Maybe we should be more generous with deadlines when near holidays instead of keep it strict all the time.

I also just think that we shouldn't have just mini newbies, that's not something I'd be hyped up for and feel that won't draw in newbies, I feel it's a lazy attempt at hosting newbies. With larger newbies, we establish a sense of community. "Oh hey, you and I were in our newbie together" "Newbie 8 class forever" or something. With mini's it's not as important or as memorable. Mini's to me are similar to aim mafia, or epic mafia. That's it. Plus it they don't get their own topics. I'd rather have separate newbies with 2 IC's.

 

[Maven89]

Well we don't even have enough newbies to fill a mini game, nor any that really stay around. I've been here a year and I don't know anyone that came here and is still around. Zalak was the closest but he vanished.

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

Well we don't even have enough newbies to fill a mini game, nor any that really stay around. I've been here a year and I don't know anyone that came here and is still around. Zalak was the closest but he vanished.

Technically Spak and I are newbies from the same game Zalak was in.

While there isn't many new players coming in, you can't say that there aren't any. A lot just check it out, don't find it that interesting, and leave without looking back.

This forum just really needs to be more accommodating to new users. Start posting in the mini mafia thread again so the last post isn't from last month, start hosting more minies, etc. I feel that if somebody just makes a post in the thread saying they're making a game and need new members, people will come out of their shell and actually join.

and yes im ready to admit theres a lot i need to improve on haha

 

[The Man From Delamar]

TheKingofKoopas

Outta curiosity, what lessons did you learn from playing minimafia and (I assume) watchin it carry on after ya replaced out?

 

[TheKingofKoopas]

TheKingofKoopas

Outta curiosity, what lessons did you learn from playing minimafia and (I assume) watchin it carry on after ya replaced out?

Well, I learned that this forum is big on scumhunting and overall being relevant. Actively asking questions and having good debating skills are fairly important.
In terms of my play, I just need to be more active (or at least get better at knowing when I will be busy / how busy I am) and I have to be more aggressive and outward. As much as my online persona says otherwise I'm incredibly introverted.

 

[adumbrodeus]

I think some of this is exaggeration. It's not like we've had horrible replacement problems until the current ongoing game, which is also happening during Christmas so it's not surprising. At least I don't remember there being horrible replacement problems?

We also do have mini newbie games, but sometimes they just get filled with experienced players.

On the other issue, I think people don't want to change. When I first came here, I was horrible. First game I played, players were saying "summarize what Maven is saying because I'm not reading that crap again". I insisted it was Jex/another player based on their connection, turned out to be Jex/someone else. Now, I could have been "See guys I was 50% right we should have just lynched Jex, but noo you guys wanted to shut me down", but I was actually 0% right. I thought Jex was scum due to connections that didn't exist, that means my Jex scum read was wrong and false, even though Jex was scum. The fact that I read him scum when he was scum was actually just luck. I realized this and recognized that I played poorly, and so tried to change because I don't want to be bad at something.

I rarely see that later line today. Now it's just "Nah, I was entirely wrong but it's your guys fault anyways that you lynched me", or "Well that's just how I play". Both of those can be replaced with

Like, I know it really sucks to be called out for horrible play and you take it personally. I definitely took it personally when Laundry railed on me for voting Glyph and got really pissed at him. Problem was he was right and I was wrong, and so I just have to accept that now and improve on it so I don't make the same mistake again in a later game.

The only meta excuse I accept is Orbo's, because he's in the military and has to phone post. No one else's counts.

Lynching town is always town's fault (unless it's down to PoE and town successfully lynches through the scum) but that doesn't excuse the poor play by the lynched player leading up to it.

Let's be realistic, mafia isn't about mechanically figuring out whose best adhearing to their win condition, it's about understanding people. If somebody makes certain reliable mistakes as town that are against their win condition but they're obviously different from their mistakes made as scum then you shouldn't be lynching them.

That doesn't excuse bad meta of course and absolutely should not be a discouragement to improve, your objective as town is to lynch scum, if you're just avoiding being lynched you're simply a burden to town.

 

[ranmaru]

This forum just really needs to be more accommodating to new users. Start posting in the mini mafia thread again so the last post isn't from last month, start hosting more minies, etc. I feel that if somebody just makes a post in the thread saying they're making a game and need new members, people will come out of their shell and actually join.

I agree with this. Which brings me back to my point of sense of community. Having IRL meetups help. Having AIM mafia or SKYPE mafia games help. I came for the newbie mafia game. But I stayed for the AIM MAFIA. I also think we do need Agames as well, as you can see EE hosting. Be a little bit more social. Hydra with those you haven't approached. Hydraing will help you understand someone's point of view, while knowing their alignment. Buddy in mafia games, and be social. Since I'm saying this, I'm considering hosting newbie games so that we can get new blood. New blood motivates older veterans to show off and feel good that newer members want to learn from their example.

 

[Maven89]

If somebody makes certain reliable mistakes as town that are against their win condition but they're obviously different from their mistakes made as scum then you shouldn't be lynching them.

I just disagree with this. People aren't mechanical, they don't always make the same mistake scum/town. I purposefully search for people saying "This is maven town meta" so I have tools to use for when I'm scum and search for scum meta so I can avoid it, and I'd be really surprised if I was the only one. The only meta I try to use is "do I think this is a good player?". If the answer is yes, then cool. If it's no, I'll be more lenient in trying to figure them out. Outside of that, I try really hard to not even think about it.

I hope I'm not the only one who absolutely hates meta reads, and find games decided by meta to be boring as ****. I don't care if someone doesn't play Day 1 normally, if that's the case they shouldn't have joined a mafia game. But they did, so they post or die, and if they die and are town then at least we don't have to deal with that slot anymore.

Recently in a mafia game I made a fake scum slip while town in an attempt to get myself killed (kingmaker game with hero role (me)). If I was wrong on the executioner being scum, and he was town and he tried to kill me, would that be town's fault? When I made a fake scum slip? Because I believe that it'd be entirely my fault for that lynch, because I specifically acted in a way designed to get people to lynch me. Even if I was completely ignorant about how I was acting, it'd still be my fault. It's no different in regular mafia games. Town's job is the lynch the scummiest. Sometimes the scummiest player will be town. Town is doing it's job when it lynches that person. The only time it's truly the town's fault is if the person never actually did anything scummy and town just tarded out. And most of the times when I see that, it's over meta.

 

[ranmaru]

I actually agree with Adum, on that mafia is about understanding each other. If people don't understand each other, or try to, what happens is me vs ratbat, when he is cop and is being stubborn as all hell without even reading my thoughts about why I am posting the way I do. Meta is a good tool, the key is not to abuse it. Anyway I think subconsciously you are going to use meta anyway. Consider that I'm a social work major and I'm all about psychology.

The only downside is that if you are mafia and people KNOW you and know how to read you, you are going to hate it because you can't escape your fate. Well guess what, neither can I. Oh well. Faking a scumslip means you are lying as town, and town shouldn't lie because it makes it easier to find mafia if they lie. We know that mafia have to pretend to be town to survive, which means they are forced to lie, so why not just let them be the liars eh?

Example, you bring in your best friend to play mafia with you. You know him inside and out. It's going to be quite hard for you to take out 'meta' from the game simply because you hate it.

Town should:

1. Try their best to understand the players and make as close to an accurate read as possible.
2. Should not be stupid and say things that will give fuel for others and scum to target you. (This is different then expirementing, which I have done alot which of course came across as scummy, sometimes things don't work)
3. Use your vote. Voting people is the best way to gain reactions, and from reactions you can gain reads and people will interact with you and that person, giving you more reads. Don't skimp on this opportunity.
4. Poke others to talk. If you have no idea on what to do, just question people on their motives, anything you find concerning. It's hard for scum to lie and keep up with active threads, the more active you and the town is, the more chances for scum to slip.
5. Be active, of course. You don't have to spam, as I have used to, but try to find a balance of posting.
6. Re-evalute your reads, don't just stick to it because you may be wrong and just tunneling. Think both sides of the coin.
7. Defend your town reads, stick out for them. Don't let others pile on them, town mislynches are never good, even though I don't mind d1 mislynches as it gives me info as to why people wanted that. (Most likely some scum wanted it and probably helped)


Concisely, be active, use your vote, have good reads, compromise on lynches, and defend your town reads.

Maybe someone can go over what scum should do.

 

[ranmaru]

I think these two posts are great and show what I'm saying:

From my experience, honesty is the best policy. I think it is better to completely lay out your thought process, because it allows others to follow you more clearly, judge your alignment more accurately, and point out the fallacies in your logic. I think it is a mistake to hide your reasoning (other than for PR reasons), because you're making the assumption that your read is infallible in that case. If that were the case, then there would be no reason to hide your reasoning. No matter how good of a player you are, you are still susceptible to mistakes and biases. Allowing a peer review of your thought process can reveal these biases and fallacies and ultimately prevent a mislynch.

For example, in Sleepover mafia both Murderbush and #HBC | Amidamaru had a very strong scum read on #HBC | Leviathan. These were two players that are known to be influential player in the game. However, both of these slots decided not to play their traditional manipulative styles, but rather play cooperatively with the rest of the players instead. Even though these two slots had such a huge scum read on #HBC | Leviathan, the rest of the players were not convinced, and most actually saw him in a town light. The two big cases that each of these slots made on #HBC | Leviathan were continuously debunked by the rest of the cast, and ultimately town #HBC | Leviathan was not lynched. Not only did this prevent a town lynch, but it prevented a lynch that would have placed the three mafia players in a town light, and caused distrust of town Murderbush and #HBC | Amidamaru. Furthermore, #HBC | Leviathan ended up being the primary influence of all three of the mafia lynches.

Three out of four of the heads in the Murderbush + #HBC | Amidamaru hydras were working under the bias that #HBC | Leviathan was someone they knew. Their perception of the slot was based on the meta of that player and limited their ability to look other directions. If these two slots had decided to play in a manipulative manner, instead of choosing to play openly and cooperatively, the game could have ended much differently.

 

[ranmaru]

This one:

You're saying that people aren't playing D1?

But...why? Do people like setting a precedent that allows scum to prosper due to a lack of effort or inactivity on Town's part? There's talk about players disliking the early game, but holy ****, guys, that's more often than not due to the lack of information. Information that's created by posting. Ask yourself how many mafia games have failed to generate some kind of content on D1 that can be used to work towards figuring out the big picture and the answer is not many. Intentionally not posting in favor of lurking is not only NOT FUN, but it makes your teammates have a difficult time of identifying you as such. Now WHY would you WANT to do that? Why not start off the game by pissing in everyone else's eyes while you're at it? ****, that'd probably be more useful to them than sitting around letting your bodily fluids dispense on the thread.

This has me thinking back to all the times that I rolled scum. You know what I hate as scum and pisses me off more than hearing a movie I'm looking forward to has cast Shia LaBeouf? An active Town who gives a **** about putting information (and thus, posts) out there from everyone because that leaves me with no place to hide! Now that's that **** that leaves me rather wanting to shove a cactus up my ***. It builds the kind of atmosphere where me and my scummates would rather yank out every hair out of our scrotums with a tweezer, blindfolded! It's intimidating and forces us to constantly adjust our strategy to a Town that is setting the pace of the game and level of acceptable contribution, and that's bad news for any scum team. It's more windows of opportunity for them to slip face first into a sinking hole filled with diarrhea vomit. I am sure many of you reading this can recall a time where you rolled scum and were alarmed that you had to play catch up with a Town that left you in the dust.

Why not play D1? What the **** do you THINK is going to happen? Are you going to bore the scum to death? Are you going to make them hate such an uninspired habitat so much that they are just going to get up and say, "Hey! This game sucks! No one is playing, so I'm just going to reveal myself and my partners to get out of it!" when they can just BLEND IN and make a game where Town should statistically begin with a disadvantage even MORE of a crapshoot? What's the protown motivation for such an attitude? Why is it necessary when you can make a few posts with some thoughts on goings-on, and, y'know, PLAY THE GAME YOU SIGNED UP FOR! Have you ever seen a football team where they routinely snap the ball then proceed to have half their players stand around scratching their ***** while the other engages their opponents? If you have, you must have been watching the 2008 Detroit Lions.

The worst part about this is that it's easy! Make a joke. Pick someone's words. Join another player's vote. Ask questions. It's the most versatile phase of the game due to not being confined by the restraints that we subconsciously place on each other as the game proceeds. All it takes is a little cooperation and willingness to put yourself out there. Not posting on D1 is pretty much like going to a club, taking a dump in the corner, rolling around in it, then wondering why nobody wants to dance with you.

All you have to do is post. Play. Try. The worst thing that can happen is a Town losing in what would have been a fun game due to the high levels of participation.

To those who don't play D1 or underestimate the value of it, I'm watching you. I want you to know that you are making Towns everywhere that much more ****ty due to your negligence, and that's about as cool as dunking your balls in a coffee cup filled with hot magma. I hope you're proud of yourself. Let me catch you trying to pull this ****ing **** in a game and I'll...I'll...

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I think we just need to sort out our policies every now and then. Right now there's a couple of things I think we should change:

* We don't punish inactivty nearly as much as we should. Inactive players should be insta-lynched.
* We're way too lenient on AtE. Emotions have no place in a mafia game and should be punished.
* We should be more open with criticism. People are too scared to voice their opinions and need a thicker skin too.
* The whole concept of a player's "meta" should be thrown out of the window completely for a while.

All these things really hinder people's progess right now imo.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I would LOVE to punish inactives more. Like, a lot. However, look what happened to Laundry in Masquerade for lynching the slot with 2 posts.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

The main reason people argue against lynching inactives is because it doesn't give us any 'info'.

Yet I've virtually never seen anybody make use of any 'information' we supposedly get from lynching a more active slot. I mean, if people actually read back into previous Day phases and bust out badass posts that unveil all the connections we couldn't see before and give us a lot of **** to work with I'd see it. I'd be OK with lynching more active slots under such circumstances. Except it's actually the complete opposite that happens in practice. People just continue to not have a clue and watch games disintegrate due to the inactivity they refuse to go against. And the next game we have the exact same **** going down. It's like people actively refuse to learn from past mistakes.

 

[#HBC | J]

I agree with Gheb on all his points minus the emotions part. Yes, we are very lenient on it and should be harsher on people who just use sole AtE but to say emotions should be vanquished from games is impossible haha. We are all humans and some of the better plays of the past do have some AtE to them.

It's just people are robotic on this site more often then naught or really emotional. There needs to be a balance between the two.

 

[The Man From Delamar]

Nah. I took a lotta flak for my unwillingness to bend to emotions in minimafia from you, and unsurprisingly you ended up being scum and either knowingly or unknowingly using ATE to pad your fauxcontribution. Where I'm from, a man with more feelings than teeth gets hanged because a man with no conviction probably ain't sincere. You can't always control how ya FEEL, but ya can always control what ya SAY. It's the beauty of talkin through these fancy technology boxes insteada in person. Ya gotta censor. Use it on things that dont need to be said.

Lynching inactives is a dicey operation however. By that metric orboknown mighta been lynched D2 of that game; instead scumhuntin ruled the day and a bad guy ate the rope

 

[Maven89]

I think the problem isn't that AtE aren't part of the game, they definitely are. It's just that they're all traps

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Ate wouldn't be a problem if dumb****s just stopped falling for it.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

I still remember Soup planning an emotional outburst into replacing out in order to save his slot. That sort of thing is disgusting to me. That's an extreme example, but we're so lenient. "Guys, I'm just so ****ing sick of the way we're treating each othe that I didn't want to post." That's accepted as a reasonable explanation for not contributing.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

I still remember Soup planning an emotional outburst into replacing out in order to save his slot. That sort of thing is disgusting to me.

When did that happen? Should've blacklisted him for it. That's virtually the vilest thing a player can do in mafia.