Meta "The Saikyo Dojo" Ryu Metagame Discussion.

[RoninX1819]

Ok, so running up to someone then rolling back is not an approach. It's a bait. And a bad one at that since you give up space which is like...every thing Ryu is not about. Ryu IS space control. Run up spot dodge again, just a bait. If you feel you want to roll do a dash in cross up roll behind them.

With Ryu your mentality should shift from attacking their shield to force a defensive response, to establish midrange dominance with pokes and safe footsies.

You keep trying to play him like a pure smash character. He is not. He is a traditional fighting game character in a Smash game. He has elements of his own game and elements of this one.

Do not think about approaching. Think about closing space and setting up an optimal zone where you control the pace of the match. If you want some pure smash approaches then dash behind SH bair is solid. Dash shield cancel d-tilt or d-smash is good. But really you should be focused on limiting options not just ramming shields with your limbs.

Take it slow. Walk alot. ALOT. Lots of empty jumps. Ryu has strong options from empty hops. Hadouken is still a thing. Nair will shut down dash grabs. FADC can draw out responses or you can FA absorb a dash attack then net a crumple combo. If they throw something at you, then you have the option of true tatsu which when timed right can blow through any non counter type attack or trade with other invincible moves.

For that midrange game Shakunetsu and regular hadoukens are your main tools. Hadoukens are good for opponents in the air or SHing, and shakunetsu is good for opponents on the ground. Generally you want slow hadoukens for optimal space control and they will be harder to spot dodge and get around. You wanna force a block for shield damage. This is why Shakunetsu is important. They can powershield the first hit, but not the following hits. You want that shield damage. When they block a few of those they have to then start trying to get around them or they get shield poked for free. Then your neutral game really kicks in. Hasty attacks are easily punished with shoryu out of shield. Bad jump ins fall victim to strong jab. Dash grabbing can be dealt with just by rolling away and resetting your spacing or with short hop nair.

Ryu is pure control, footsies and reaction. Force your will onto the opponent and watch them destroy themselves.

Here is the only video of me so far. It's online and even though there is a little goofing off you can still see alot of the concepts at work.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S4rr0_e2sko

This helped a lot. Iv been trying to rap my head around how this character is played and this helped a lot. I have a really good ryu if you want to train some time hit me up

 

[Z1GMA]

I figured you can calibrate you Control Stick to gain access to easier Walking U1s and other stuff.
Pretty awesome if you're using a controller with analog corners (typically a Gamecube Controller).

 

[BlueBirdE]

One thing i notice with setting cstick to attack is your utilt and dtilt wont come out as fast one after the other if you dont hold down or up on the control stick (down for dtilt and up for utilt respectively). I thought dtilt wouldnt come out as frequently because of squatting frames or something, but havin the same thing happen for utilt is weird to me

 

[Z1GMA]

I don't do this with any other character, but with Ryu, it's pretty kewl. Stupid, but kewl:

Calibrating the Control Stick's neutral position like this.
It makes for very easy walking Utilts (using standard Control Scheme on the Game Cube Controller)
The upper left/upper right corners then gives you failsafe Walking Utilts.
Give it a try. Don't calibrate the stick too low, though, or you won't be able to Jab/Nair/nB like normal.

 

[Champ Gold]

Im surprised no one has caught on tho this but Ryu's Dash Attack has some sort of Super Armor on it (It went right through Charizard's Flare Blitz)

 

[DisidisiD]

Im surprised no one has caught on tho this but Ryu's Dash Attack has some sort of Super Armor on it (It went right through Charizard's Flare Blitz)

Wut. Are you sure?

 

[Champ Gold]

Wut. Are you sure?

I'm sure. IT WENT THROUGH FLARE BLITZ. EITHER IM MISSING SOMETHING OR IT WAS A ONE TIME THING

 

[icraq]

Wonder if Ryu's dash attack has a similar property to jiggs' dash attack or if it was a fluke.
Really wish we had data dumps like 1.0.4

 

[DisidisiD]

Wonder if Ryu's dash attack has a similar property to jiggs' dash attack or if it was a fluke.
Really wish we had data dumps like 1.0.4

What property does her dash Attack have?

 

[Locke 06]

Yo.

Ryu has high hitlag on his attacks (most notably FAir). See what you can do with frame canceling. Even though Ryu's FAir doesn't need help to combo into stuff at low %'s, it might open up stuff for you.

K bye.

 

[roymustang1990-]

What property does her dash Attack have?

Puffs dash attack has invincable properties.

But yeah,ryus dash attack going through zard's flare blitz is really wierd. The only moves that counterattacked it are true red fire ball and true shoryuken. You can also get tatsumaki to passed through it.

 

[TheFlow]

Hey guys, this may be already found, but you can reverse the specials and their true inputs.

You just execute the special, and as you press A, you execute the B-reverse motion. Tbh, i'm pretty sure it's already discovered, but if it's not, well enjoy it.

 

[Zzuxon]

I was curious. Does stale move negation affect strong and weak inputs of Ryu's specials separately, or all they all lumped together?

 

[Ffamran]

We challenge your Shoryuken with our Up Smash! Hello, wandering warriors, the Falco boards started their ongoing Ryu matchup discussion, so drop in whenever: http://smashboards.com/threads/ssb4...-54-ryu-somersault-shell-vs-shoryuken.411558/.

And if you want to learn about the MU by fighting Falco players or just want someone to fight, head over here: http://smashboards.com/threads/anyone-want-to-exchange-nnids-or-friend-codes.386513/.

This post has been unofficially sponsored by Charlie Nash.

 

[Elessar]

I was curious. Does stale move negation affect strong and weak inputs of Ryu's specials separately, or all they all lumped together?

Quoted from my guide :

I have also found that the T and H variations of Ryu’s tilts do not share stale status. This means that Hdtilt can be used to refresh your Tdtilt. The same applied to the normal jab combo and to Hjab. After executing a jab combo, Hjab will still remain fresh.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Been working on legit kill confirms. Tired of people who ACTUALLY PLAY THIS CHARACTER saying ridiculous things like Ryu has problems killing. **** is blatantly false. So far I have about 7 or so set-ups/confirms. I'm at work right now but I will post up later today.

 

[TheHopefulHero]

Looking forward to that Emblem Lord. Ryu is the last character I'd think of who would have problems taking stocks. You don't even need to rely on the Shoryuken since his Smashes are just as good, as well as his down air.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Ok so I have been working on quite a bit. I wanna first talk go back to Ryus main gameplan and how he is played optimally. Ryu doesnt approach. He fights for space and within that space many options are open to him.

That space he functions so strongly in is about 3 to 4 character lengths distance from his opponent. This mid range is optimal due to his good dash grab. That is what keeps his mid range game threatening.

This is the range you want. This is where the magic happens. The options available to Ryu are as follows.

Hadouken
Shakunetsu Hadouken
SH Hadouken/Shakunetsu Hadouken
Dash grab
SH FADC for movement/baiting
Empty SHFF for spacing/baiting/mind games
SHFF Bair
Dash Attack
Light Tatsu
Walk up/SH towards opponent then hard jab, hard utilt, or d-smash

These are your main options. Empty SH is VITAL for spacing adjustments and baiting an action so you can respond. Get used to doing SH then fast fall. FADC movement keeps your opponent on their toes. Hadouken options are strong pokes that keep your opponent honest and from stupidly rushing in. An easy counter to hadouken is dash shield. Make them regret that choice by grabbing them or roll behind utilt to collarbone breaker.

Dash attack is just there as a surprise burst attack option. Light Tatsu is super good. Can beat basically anything. Unsafe but very dominant in footsies when you know your opponent wants to press something. Hard jab and hard utilt are very strong anti SH tools. They shut down aerial approaches and make the opponent pause giving Ryu time to establish mid range control. D-smash is THE whiff punisher. Easy 16% if your opponent presses a button at a bad time.

SHFF bair is Ryus main shield pressure option. This is the move you throw out when you are not sure what to do, but you want something pretty safe to rely on.

Ryus dash grab is what ties it all together. He has one of the best dash grabs in the game in terms of distance. When done at the end of his initial dash animation it, it can cover that 4 character length distance. This is the main reason this range is strong for Ryu. Opponents cant just sit in shield vs him. Yeah, he has no grab combos but it only takes a few throws and some pummels to put his opponent into kill percent. So dont stress not having grab combos. He doesnt need them. his throws give him damage and allow him to get easy traps AND reset to his optimal spacing.

Also for when an opponent tries to take that space or rushdown aggressively. SH or even full jump fast fall Fair is great and leads to combos. SH Nair will shut down dash grab attempts and can lead to combos or easy grabs. And again remember Ryus anti air pokes.


Now onto kill confirms. Lemme just say what I'm talking about are REAL combos. Not set-ups. Understand that there is inherent risk in all of these hit confirms because none of them start off with anything safe on block save for the utilt confirm. But if you have an opening, starting with these is safer then going for a raw SRK. And it will allow you to convert openings into kill conversions giving you more opportunities to seal stocks and end games. As I said these are combos and work at various percents vs different characters but generally can all be started once your opponent hits kill percents for true SRK unless otherwise stated.

1) Light D-tilt xx True SRK

Very reliable and probably Ryu's best punish kill confirm. Why? Simple. How many characters have an aerial that when performed, it reduces their hitbox when they hit the ground? Pikachu is notorious for this. But with this confirm, Ryu will pick his opponent up a bit then end it.

2) Cross-up Fair Short Hop True SRK

Solid option. Kills about 15% later then grounded True SRK would. Cross up fair also does amazing shield damage so if your opponent blocks you may even shieldbreak them.

3)Light U-tilt x 2, Light Jab xx True SRK

U-tilts need to be performed as fast as possible. Try doing it after you have rolled behind an opponent this way your chances of being punished are basically nil. When done rapid fire it is safe especially when done from behind. If its blocked you can stop and roll away or attempt a shieldbreak. If it hits then go into the rest of the confirm. If you are truly skilled you will only need one utilt to confirm into the jab to SRK kill. Listen for the sound Ryus hits make on shield compared to when he hits. That is key.

4) Dair to True SRK

Solid punish confirm when your opponent is predictable. You will generally only get this when you mix in full jump baits into your game and your opponent is directly below you because they whiffed a dash grab or dash attack. You can approach with this but its very unsafe on block. Be aware of that. Due to the pop up from Dair you can fit in a jab to make it easier to confirm if you wish. Its also a good option if your opponent threw a projectile and you SHed over it.

5) Weak hit Nair to running True SRK/Sweetspot F-smash

I like this one alot. Doesnt seem like it but this IS a combo. It can be DIed away but if your opponent is caught off guard then it will link into a running SRK for a kill. Timing will vary from opponent to opponent but it works well vs taller characters. Some characters like Kirby go into a reel back animation that reduces their hitbox so this wont connect. This is best used as a confirm when you want to plow through someone throwing projectiles. This is also an easy conversion into a grab if you feel you wont get the SRK. F-smash is a bit easier imo. Just stutter step and you should get it. The key to getting weak hit nair to combo is to make sure you have forward momentum when it hits and that momentum will allow you to link into the KO move. Some characters like Mewtwo are big enough so that after you land the weak hit nair you can weak utilt into a kill confirm with True SRK. At higher percents this becomes a really easy confirm into F-smash as it will pop the opponent up slightly making the timing easier. Try testing it vs an opponent at over 100% and you will see what I mean. F-smash becomes a mindlessly easy confirm. You can even confirm into U-smash for a kill at higher percents.

6) Strong hit Nair to running True SRK/Sweetspot F-smash

This one is the same concept, and the timing is similar. The greater hitstun makes nailing the SRK easier but the f-smash slightly harder due to knockback increase. Change which KO move you use depending on percentage and your opponent. Bigger characters are a little easier to catch with f-smash and if you are close to the ledge then go for it. This is SLIGHTLY safer to do since the strong hit has more hitstun then the weak hit. This is esaier to get at lower percents compared to the weak hit nair which is better at higher percents. Though the percentage window where this is effective is smaller, the actual timing to get the SRK kill is easier because hitstun is greater. This confirm is better when an opponent is a little bit before SRK will kill or JUST entering kill percentage for SRK. Otherwise use the weak nair confirm. This confirm works best when the Nair is done just before Ryu touches the ground but the greater hitstun does give quite a bit of leeway.

7) Strong hit Nair to running SH spike

EXTREMELY difficult to time and spacing is super specific. Also effected by DI. Only mentioning it because its another option. Works best when your opponent is about 3 character lengths from the ledge. Run in and do a late strong hit nair. Ryu needs enough room to land then run forward and SH dair spike so that when he SH's from the ledge his opponent is right in front of him. You wont get this often but damn is it sweet if you can pull it off. You can start going for this as early as 50 to 55 percent vs many of the cast.




Those are his main ones that I have found not counting Focus Attack lvl2 and lvl3. Master these guys ESPECIALLY the nair stuff. I won tournament sets thanks to those and it really opens the door for allowing Ryu to convert ANY opportunity into a kill.

Honorable mention goes to bair. When your opponent is at 130% or above just start throwing this out in SH's. Safe on block. Fast. Good hitbox. Very spammable. Wont hit characters that crouch low to the ground though.

 

[ArikadoSD]

Can Ryu do the strong shoryuken oos? been struggling to get it to work but I haven't really labbed it extensively.

 

[iLLEST]

Can Ryu do the strong shoryuken oos? been struggling to get it to work but I haven't really labbed it extensively.

True srk OOS? You jump too high to hit sweet spot.

 

[DisidisiD]

True srk OOS? You jump too high to hit sweet spot.

Actually, JC then input is not the only way to get TSRK OOS. The first thing to realize is that you don't have to use the edge of the control pad to input specials. You can just slightly move it off center and in the pattern at that distance to get the same effect. Knowing this, we can do TSRK OOS by, while in shield, moving the control stick little enough to where it's not picked up and you begin to roll/spot dodge but enough so it counts as an input. And then you can do it OOS with jump cancel or shield drop or whatever and, voila, your opponent died.

 

[ArikadoSD]

..i assume TSRK is the strong shoryuken, whatever that stands for @_@

thanks though DisidisiD, that answers my question.

 

[DisidisiD]

Actually, JC then input is not the only way to get TSRK OOS. The first thing to realize is that you don't have to use the edge of the control pad to input specials. You can just slightly move it off center and in the pattern at that distance to get the same effect. Knowing this, we can do TSRK OOS by, while in shield, moving the control stick little enough to where it's not picked up and you begin to roll/spot dodge but enough so it counts as an input. And then you can do it OOS with jump cancel or drop shield or whatever and voila, your opponent died.

Whoops. I did this on accident. How do I delete this?

 

[DisidisiD]

I retested it and it seems like you can't jump cancel true shoryuken. But you can with the Up b method. Does anyone know why this is? And this means that what I said only works if you shield drop or if you jump cancel and the opponent is in the air or fairly tall.

 

[Deleted member]

Well,

In order to perform True SRK OoS you would need to buffer the input first , which is impossible while in-shield (and thus, before the OoS Jump) because it will cause you to spot dodge or roll.

So you must perform the input just after you jump OoS, meaning that Ryu will not be able to perform a grounded True SRK because the jump executes before it is possible for the SRK input to be done and for it to come out.

The U-B method works because both U-Smash and U-B for all characters can be Jump-Canceled before the character leaves the ground, which is possible because the input for either of these can be done immediately after the Jump input OoS. Once again, the True SRK doesn't work because it is impossible to input the stick commands before Ryu leaves the ground with his jump.

If Ryu had the jumpsquat frames of say, Ganondorf, which are a lot (read: Ganon has a long jumpsquat) or longer, than it may be possible [to perform the SRK inputs and do a JC TSRK], but because he doesn't, it isn't.

 

[DisidisiD]

Well,

In order to perform True SRK OoS you would need to buffer the input first , which is impossible while in-shield (and thus, before the OoS Jump) because it will cause you to spot dodge or roll.

So you must perform the input just after you jump OoS, meaning that Ryu will not be able to perform a grounded True SRK because the jump executes before it is possible for the SRK input to be done and for it to come out.

The U-B method works because both U-Smash and U-B for all characters can be Jump-Canceled before the character leaves the ground, which is possible because the input for either of these can be done immediately after the Jump input OoS. Once again, the True SRK doesn't work because it is impossible to input the stick commands before Ryu leaves the ground with his jump.

If Ryu had the jumpsquat frames of say, Ganondorf, which are a lot (read: Ganon has a long jumpsquat) or longer, than it may be possible [to perform the SRK inputs and do a JC TSRK], but because he doesn't, it isn't.

Actually, if you read my post, you'll see that it is infact possible to buffer the inputs WITHOUT roll or sot dodge occuring. However, my question is more than that. You simply cannot JC TSRK. Even when buffering before jumping, without relating anything to shielding, I just can't jump cancel it. Its so odd.

 

[iLLEST]

I retested it and it seems like you can't jump cancel true shoryuken. But you can with the Up b method. Does anyone know why this is? And this means that what I said only works if you shield drop or if you jump cancel and the opponent is in the air or fairly tall.

You had me excited for some reason -_-

@ ArikadoSD I still don't believe its possible to land sweetspot TSRK (true shoryuken, the stronger than upB input version) OOS until someone posts a video.

 

[DisidisiD]

You had me excited for some reason -_-

@ ArikadoSD I still don't believe its possible to land sweetspot TSRK (true shoryuken, the stronger than upB input version) OOS until someone posts a video.

What I had meant is that it is literally impossible to jump cancel TSRK. Out of a run or just standing, you can press jump then up b and the jump will be cancelled. But, if you do the input, it doesn't cancel the jump. You can input the... Input during shield but it seems like it's inherently impossible, perhaps for reasons similar to why one can't b-reverse input tatsu.

 

[Neutricity]

Okay, I got a question:

My opponent attacks my shield. Can I got the inputs for TRUE SHORYUKEN as he is hitting my shield or will I have to let go of my shield and then begin the inputs?
@ Emblem Lord and anyone else that can answer my question

 

[Emblem Lord]

If you try to buffer while you are holding shield you will roll. It is possible but you have to let go of shield and have really tight timing.

I been playing street fighter competitively as recently as 2013 and I have trouble with it. It's tough to time.

 

[DisidisiD]

If you try to buffer while you are holding shield you will roll.

Bruh. Is no one reading what I said? Lol. You CAN buffer it while in shield.

The first thing to realize is that you don't have to use the edge of the control pad to input specials. You can just slightly move it off center and in the pattern at that distance to get the same effect. Knowing this, we can do TSRK OOS by, while in shield, moving the control stick little enough to where it's not picked up and you begin to roll/spot dodge but enough so it counts as an input.

 

[Deleted member]

Well how quickly can you do it in-shield is the question then.

You don't have more than 1/2 a second to react with an OoS option as a punish against most of the cast and I imagine it'd be quite difficult to buffer the input quickly in-shield using that method before the opponent can put up their own shield, or grab, or any other option.

If you're in the heat of a match it's going to be hard to have that amount of touch without accidentally rolling or spotdodging while attempting to buffer the input, especially if you're doing it quickly so that you can actually punish OoS.

Sure it can be done, but can it be done simply enough to be practical?

 

[Emblem Lord]

Bruh. Is no one reading what I said? Lol. You CAN buffer it while in shield.

Oh my bad, yes you can edge it with the analog for sure and you wont roll. Man that would take some real training to pull it off consistently. Might be something to work on once I iron out some other things in my game.

 

[DisidisiD]

It's actually not too hard. Once you get it down, you can actually do it pretty easily.

 

[Champ Gold]

The only moves I've ever tried doing OOS was the Hadouken and Heavy Up-Tilt

 

[Emblem Lord]

Made it out of pools in SKTAR. Nairo was in my pool as well so it was a battle for second. Had alot of clutch moments especially my battle for second place vs a strong Ike named Waldo. He whiffed an f-smash and shoryuken sealed his fate. But the best part was beating a Ness player named Tokyo. He took me out of a local when I was first learning Ryu. That was a victory that affirmed to me that I AM getting stronger.

Still...

"The journey has just begun."

 

[Z1GMA]

What you guys think about d2 > Dash Grab at low %s?

 

[icraq]

What you guys think about d2 > Dash Grab at low %s?

not a fan.
shakunetsu is best off dtilt2 at low percents.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Not a fan and not real. Now utilt to grab?

Thats some legit tech.

 

[A2ZOMG]

Well,

In order to perform True SRK OoS you would need to buffer the input first , which is impossible while in-shield (and thus, before the OoS Jump) because it will cause you to spot dodge or roll.

So you must perform the input just after you jump OoS, meaning that Ryu will not be able to perform a grounded True SRK because the jump executes before it is possible for the SRK input to be done and for it to come out.

The U-B method works because both U-Smash and U-B for all characters can be Jump-Canceled before the character leaves the ground, which is possible because the input for either of these can be done immediately after the Jump input OoS. Once again, the True SRK doesn't work because it is impossible to input the stick commands before Ryu leaves the ground with his jump.

If Ryu had the jumpsquat frames of say, Ganondorf, which are a lot (read: Ganon has a long jumpsquat) or longer, than it may be possible [to perform the SRK inputs and do a JC TSRK], but because he doesn't, it isn't.

I've repeatedly tried to do jump canceled TSRKs by inputing the SRK motion -> jump -> B button before I leave the ground. You cannot jump cancel TSRK, this always gives you an aerial TSRK instead.