Q&A The Rosalina Q&A Thread

[Planty]

since peach is not that good in this game.

............................................

Up smash, nair w/ Luma, bair, and jab for low floats kind of **** Peach up.

I know we can handle low floats or ground floats. I was playing against this Peach the other day who would space himself perfectly ans stay high enough so that my ground options are out of range (except up-tilt, but he kept to the side and would move in to punish if I used it.) So my only options was jumping or waiting for him to land. He had this amazing positioning that my jumps would get stuffed by Dair or Nair. If I waited for him to land, he would bop me with a turnip (Peach can use aerials with turnip in hand if she's floating). On top of that, Luma was dead for a significant portion of the match.

When I was offstage, he would just float next the ledge and Nair or Fair my recovery attempts. Trying to recover high would result in an upsmash.

(And don't forget that this goes with all of Peach's other great things, like great grab followups, a kill throw, quick and strong smashes, easy and powerful combos and even an infinite)

 

[LightningLuxray]

I mean if she's just sitting there floating out of your up smash range, that means you're out of her dair range, so all you have to do is wait for the drop down and shield. I mean ok peach turnips your shield and then you catch their landing with a grab / dash attack / up smash or wait for the fair depending how high the peach player is floating. Also if the Peach begins to feel comfortable enough in the air and is close enough, you can run under her and quickly up air.

Also if you recover low enough you should be able to avoid peach's nair and fair and grab ledge. Even if you're still getting caught by like dair, you can save your double jump and double jump up air to remove peach from just sitting there and floating. Or you could even stall offstage and wait for the float to run out depending on your position. Ngl though Peach's edge guarding tools are quite strong and can be difficult to get past.

Also we have the exact same thing you mentioned Peach has in great grab follow ups (up throw --> up air / up smash) a kill throw (bthrow, although weaker than Peach's, can still kills) quick and strong smashes (are smashes are overall better than Peach's with Luma) and easy and powerful combos (up air isn't exactly a combo, but one air dodge read can result in Peach's early death, especially considering how light she is. We also have Luma detach shenanigans, even if they are difficult.) The only thing we don't have is an infinite, but I don't even think top Peaches have pulled off her infinite in tournament.

I don't mean this in a mean way but I think the Peach player may have just been better than you, it happens to the best of us and the better player overall tends to win in even / close to even MUs.

 

[Reizilla]

I hate playing the Ike matchup with Rosa. I don't feel like it's a BAD matchup, but he kills Luma way too easily and even if I can punish him for it, I don't get much with SoRo and then get taken to town. Of course one good juggle can end him, but that matchup is just way too volatile for my tastes.

 

[Eternal Blue Syaoran]

I hate playing the Ike matchup with Rosa. I don't feel like it's a BAD matchup, but he kills Luma way too easily and even if I can punish him for it, I don't get much with SoRo and then get taken to town. Of course one good juggle can end him, but that matchup is just way too volatile for my tastes.

I can relate to that. A really good Ike player can tear through even the greatest of Rosalina player. Two of our best players in state play Rosalina & Luma and Ike. Both of them have such great options in the match, but also both can tear into eachother pretty well. When I fight a GOOD Ike it's scary. So I can see why you would hate playing it.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

When fighting a Rosalina, how should I DI the USmash and Uairs?

 

[Planty]

When fighting a Rosalina, how should I DI the USmash and Uairs?

You should always DI U-smash away.

Uair is special. If you get hit by Rosa's, DI away. However, Luma's actually sends people behind him. That means that you should DI Luma's Uair holding opposite the direction he's facing (Or towards him). If Luma is attached to Rosalina, his hit will send people into Rosalina's Uair, in which case you should DI away. BUT sometimes if Luma hits you and you're far enough away from Rosa, you won't come into contact with Rosalina's, in which case you DI towards Luma.

 

[FightingPolygon]

How am I supposed to deal with Rosalina? As a Pac-Main.

 

[Smasher89]

How am I supposed to deal with Rosalina? As a Pac-Main.

Switch to shiek.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Switch to shiek.

That's not very helpful advice if you asked me.

Anyway, FightingPolygon , while Rosalina does have Gravitational Pull to counter most projectile attacks, PAC-MAN can still mess her up if he uses Bonus Fruit at a range that's too close for her to react. Likewise, PAC-MAN's Fire Hydrant does get thrown pretty fast, which can potentially mess up Rosalina's timing with her up aerial.

 

[ChikoLad]

Switch to shiek.

>All these For Glory scrubs always switching to Sheik when I beat them with Rosalina.
>But Rosalina has a favourable MU against Sheik.

It's bad enough telling someone to drop their main and only play a character for tiers/counterpicking. But if you're gonna do that, at least make sure it's a character that actually counterpicks Rosalina.

Pac-Man is pretty alright against Rosalina if one knows what they are doing. I'd say the closest we have to Rosalina counterpicks are Shulk, Meta Knight, and maybe Pikachu. Definitely not Sheik, though, she doesn't do terrible in the MU, but it's definitely in Rosalina's favour.

 

[Bill cipher3]

How am I supposed to deal with Rosalina? As a Pac-Main.

Well you can use Hydrant as bait then if she gps then you can punish her.

Switch to shiek.

Shouldn't we all.
Edit. You should also check out the pac man match up thread Too.

 

[LightningLuxray]

lmao people can't take a joke x_x

Yeah I agree you can't really sit back with Pac like you can in other MUs, try to play a more up-close game with your decently quick aerials and fruit to combo Rosa. Hydrant isn't really a stage control item now as it is more an anti-juggle tool - it makes if very hard for Rosa to up air you if you're stopping her vertical approach with the threat of hydrant. I'd also say to watch your jumps, especially short hops, when you're at higher percents, as eventually the Rosa will catch on and up smash.

I think the main problem with Pac can be killing, you either have to get a read with a smash attack or use a fruit setup, otherwise she often live until like 140%, which is pretty long for Rosa considering her low weight.

Overall this MU is an uphill battle for Pac for sure


Also lol at us winning vs Sheik? It might be even at best but we definitely don't win. And Shulk is no Rosa counter what.... @_@

 

[ChikoLad]

lmao people can't take a joke x_x

Yeah I agree you can't really sit back with Pac like you can in other MUs, try to play a more up-close game with your decently quick aerials and fruit to combo Rosa. Hydrant isn't really a stage control item now as it is more an anti-juggle tool - it makes if very hard for Rosa to up air you if you're stopping her vertical approach with the threat of hydrant. I'd also say to watch your jumps, especially short hops, when you're at higher percents, as eventually the Rosa will catch on and up smash.

I think the main problem with Pac can be killing, you either have to get a read with a smash attack or use a fruit setup, otherwise she often live until like 140%, which is pretty long for Rosa considering her low weight.

Overall this MU is an uphill battle for Pac for sure


Also lol at us winning vs Sheik? It might be even at best but we definitely don't win. And Shulk is no Rosa counter what.... @_@

Well ZeRo seems to think so. Though I don't base it on that, it's very easy to see why Rosalina wins the Sheik MU if you just weigh the options. Rosalina messes with a lot of Sheik's normal tactics, while Sheik doesn't really screw Rosalina over in any major way.

Also Shulk is good against Rosalina. He outranges her and his attack arcs cover him up very well, usually knocking Luma away if he's tethered to Rosalina. Not to mention how quickly he can throw out aerials while in Speed or Jump.

It's not one sided or anything, but it's definitely at least even. With customs, Rosalina beats him easily as her customs fix all of her issues, but customs are not a part of the meta right now.

 

[GHOST4700]

uses for B-reversing and wavebouncing?

 

[ChikoLad]

I find B-reversed Luma Shots good for a surprise poke in the air, or for charging up if I see a frame trap opportunity. The shift in momentum in the direction you turn retroactively extends the range of it in the air too.

 

[GHOST4700]

Thanks. So I could something like fake going for a up air but then b-reverse into a fully charged luma shot? Also in the pac man MU couldn't we just pressure the shield because pac man can't really shield-grab.

 

[Planty]

Also Shulk is good against Rosalina. He outranges her and his attack arcs cover him up very well, usually knocking Luma away if he's tethered to Rosalina. Not to mention how quickly he can throw out aerials while in Speed or Jump.

Monado arts don't change frame data. I son't know where you got that idea.

Wanna know how to beat Shulk? Abuse his frame data. Shield a ton. Juggle him. Edgeguard him. It's all easy to do. Shulk has so many weaknesses.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Monado arts don't change frame data. I son't know where you got that idea.

Wanna know how to beat Shulk? Abuse his frame data. Shield a ton. Juggle him. Edgeguard him. It's all easy to do. Shulk has so many weaknesses.

Don't underestimate the Monado's reach though, since it can actually cause problems for Rosalina's battle plan. This is especially true if Shulk uses the Buster Monado Art, as the increased damage that it deals to the Luma can potentially wipe it out rather quickly.

 

[ChikoLad]

Monado arts don't change frame data. I son't know where you got that idea.

Wanna know how to beat Shulk? Abuse his frame data. Shield a ton. Juggle him. Edgeguard him. It's all easy to do. Shulk has so many weaknesses.

I didn't say it changed his frame data though. He's able to throw them out quicker because A) better movement, and B) the altered jump height values make his aerials easier to auto-cancel than normal and integrate into combos.

I also didn't say I had a specific trouble fighting Shulk. He just is one of the better characters to use against Rosalina, from my experience fighting them. I can handle him just fine personally, but I think he has certain tools that make this a real patience game for Rosalina. A good Shulk can punish you easily for shielding, and his D-air can actually counter U-air juggle attempts depending on the timing.

Also edgeguarding him if he switches to Jump Arts is a lot easier said than done, as he flies really fast through the air and gets back to the stage in no time, something Rosalina has difficulty keeping up with. Otherwise, yes, he is easy to edgeguard, but once again, and actual competent Shulk won't let themselves get into that position so easily.

Shulk has weaknesses but he is hardly anything to scoff at, especially for Rosalina. It's actually a fairly challenging MU. Rosalina can exploit certain things but Shulk wins neutral against Rosalina, IMO, unless customs are on (in which case, Rosalina easily wins). His range just outclasses hers and he can exploit Speed Arts really well in neutral.

 

[LightningLuxray]

Shulk doesn't even come close to winning the neutral vs Rosa. With Speed he definitely does a lot better, it's still probably even at best. The thing I think a lot of people aren't realizing is Shulk basically outrages every character... If his "range" were a reason for him to have a good MU he'd beat like everyone lol. The problem is his frame data is horrible and leaves him very vulnerable if he does not time his moves correctly. Especially w/o Speed he basically gets ****ed on the approach. In order for Shulk to win neutral, he not only has to read our defensive options, but also has to time him moves correctly to capitalize on punishes. Often times the only way for Shulk to do this is if he is just flat-out better than his opponent. Not only that but Luma can often be a hindrance when we have her and can bridge the gap in terms of range. Outside of losing neutral, Shulk suffers from being juggled. Dair is only really a good option if the Rosa player is continually waiting for an airdodge, or if Shulk is sent up from like an up smash and the Rosa attempts to chase. However at mid percents Rosa can usually get two up airs, as well as condition the Shulk into airdodging in order to kill. Outside of up air, up smash OoS is incredibly deadly vs Shulk, as it's great for punishing misspaced moves and can even punish just his normal aerials thanks to how horrible his frame data is. Shulk's only way of killing is off of a hard read with a smash (which leaves him extremely open if missed and is often not worth it in considering the risk / reward) and edgeguarding, which we're equally good at.

If Shulk has anything in this MU it's the ability to swat away at Luma decently safe when in speed. However this can only do so much when you basically have to outplay your opponent in neutral every single time you're in speed in order to win. At the lower and even mid levels this MU can be somewhat difficult if you aren't punishing Shulk correctly, but at the higher levels of play Shulk's chances of winning are small.

If you want a MU score, I'd say 60 - 40 Rosa, if only for the fact that Shulk can edgeguard well and has a better than average chance at killing Luma.

 

[ChikoLad]

Shulk's frame data isn't horrible, a good Shulk will abuse the crap out of his auto-cancel frames to get a lot of moves in. This gives him a much faster attack rate than Rosalina, and his long reach means he goes right through Luma (Monado also has a "piercing" property which always goes through Lumas attacks) and into Rosalina, in combination with good use of his Monado Arts.

And no, his only way of getting a KO isn't a hard read off a Smash. He can push you well into the blast zone with Speed Art aerial combos (works at early percents), Smash Art makes his tilts and aerials basically like Smashes that will KO fairly early if you don't keep to the middle, and he can counter your own moves, and that can KO super early depending on the move you hit him with (it's not the best counter but if it hits, it will likely hit hard).

Also OoS options are not as effective anymore now that shieldstun has been increased.

 

[LightningLuxray]

I'm not going to sit and have some back and forth argument with you about this... all I'm going to say is there is no way in hell Rosa loses this when his frame data is so bad (and yes, his frame data is horrible, and is one of the main reasons why Shulk is commonly ranked so low on tier lists.) Also Smash Art is much too risky to be worth its use unless you're down a stock or two, mainly because he's so easy to hit with moves like up smash.

 

[ChikoLad]

I didn't say Rosalina definitely loses the Shulk MU altogether, I just think it could go either way. I think Shulk is one of the better picks against her in any case, certainly better than Sheik.

Also Shulk is a contender for A tier in more recent times. He isn't a low ranked character these days, as he has been buffed over time, including improving frame data.

Granted, I don't think Rosalina has any super difficult MUs anyway. I just think characters like Shulk have more they can do against her.

 

[Planty]

Shulk's frame data isn't horrible

What?????
http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/Shulk

a good Shulk will abuse the crap out of his auto-cancel frames to get a lot of moves in.

Shulk's moves don't autocancel out of a short hop.

Also Shulk is a contender for A tier in more recent times.

........ By Reddit?

Also OoS options are not as effective anymore now that shieldstun has been increased.

They still work against Shulk. That's all that matters.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

I don't mean to interrupt, but just remember that there is a Shulk match-up thread here if you have anything to contribute for the Rosalina vs. Shulk match-up.

http://smashboards.com/threads/415990/

 

[ChikoLad]

........ By Reddit?

Reddit is one of the few places that underrates him and puts him lower, actually, from what I have seen.

So if you're trying to say I sound like a reddit noob with my opinion on the MU, then it's actually quite the other way around.

 

[Nah]

Most people on this site don't think very highly of Shulk.

It sounds like you're talking about Ike really.

.....but, uh, a question: what would be a good way to practice lunar landing, and what are some basic ways to make use of it in actual battle?

 

[Planty]

.....but, uh, a question: what would be a good way to practice lunar landing, and what are some basic ways to make use of it in actual battle?

To practice, just do it 1000 times. It's also worth noting that you can't do this with Uair unless you're frame prefect.

For applications.
If you input a short hop, during the jumpsquat frames, input a Dair. The Dair will come out frame perfect and will end right before you hit the ground. During the Dair endlag, you could input an aerial and it will come out as a lunar landing.

Lunar landing is also amazing when running off platforms (battlefield platforms in particular).

You can also use Rosalina's top tier aerial acceleration/deceleration to weave in and out of an opponent and lunar land upon landing. I find myself doing this a lot in certain matchups.

For combos: A basic one is RAR Bair lunar landing to grab at very low %. Nair into grab can work too at low %.
At high %, Fair to double jump Rosa Uair is a true kill combo, but the % window is tight. A plain Dair lunar landing can work too for kills, even though it's not a combo.

 

[honeclawshonedge]

I don't know if this is just me but after using Rosalina's and her big hitboxes for well over 8 months now, I'm having trouble using other characters. I want to pick up ZSS just for fun (I would say to cover her bad-ish matchups but ZSS has all the same bad matchups pretty much) but her moves are so short-lived and have tiny hitboxes like bair. Should I give rosalina a break for a while or completely solo main her and not use anyone else? I want to solo main her but I dont want to be that guy who no one wants to play against because 100% of my matches will make everyone rage :/ Has anyone else experienced this same problem?

 

[ChikoLad]

I don't have a problem adapting to other characters. As long as you understand how other characters play you shouldn't have a problem.

Maybe try the sword users if you want characters that still have good range. Pit might be a good choice.

 

[Deleted member]

1. What is Rosalina's playstyle in your opinion with Luma?
2. What is Rosalina's playstyle in your opinion without Luma?
3. Is Rosalina viable without Luma?

 

[Smasher89]

1With luma its agressive, and also good pressure to use reactions.
2Without is basicly bad, so you mainly want time for luma to respawn, or do effective edgeguarding.
3No, if rosalina were to never have luma, she would not be playable in a competive setting.

 

[ChikoLad]

1. What is Rosalina's playstyle in your opinion with Luma?
2. What is Rosalina's playstyle in your opinion without Luma?
3. Is Rosalina viable without Luma?

1) Paradigm Shifting (i.e constantly switching the roles of the two characters to adapt to the situation. Like making Rosalina play offense and Luma play defense, or vice versa. There's more roles than just that but that's an example).

2) Considering that it's only 13 seconds, I tend to play offensively when Luma is gone. I might just stall if I feel I can't take someone on without Luma, but most of the time, I still go after the opponent without him. This is because I feel it gets extra damage in for Luma to finish them when he gets back, and because having your opponent in hitstun or having them trying to recover is a more reliable form of stalling than simply running away, because they can still get you if they are free to move. Rosalina also has some good KO moves like the insane U-air. Some may say it's too risky, but I am confident enough in my SoRo play to do be willing to take a little risk.

3) Yes. Not top tier, but still more than useable.

 

[vegeta18]

when opponents lose their ledge invincibility, how do you want to space down smash so that it hits them while they are on the ledge? It seems to miss more often then not for me specifically when im rosalina, if im playing sonic or something the down smash will work every time.

What are some other good options for rosa when opponent loses their ledge invincibility? i sometimes use crouch>down angled forward smash or short hop fast fall dair with luma hanging and spiking right off the ledge. Also when doing the fsmash on the ledge, do you have to crouch first to lower luma`s height or will it work if you just simply down angle fsmash from standing?

 

[ChikoLad]

when opponents lose their ledge invincibility, how do you want to space down smash so that it hits them while they are on the ledge? It seems to miss more often then not for me specifically when im rosalina, if im playing sonic or something the down smash will work every time.

What are some other good options for rosa when opponent loses their ledge invincibility? i sometimes use crouch>down angled forward smash or short hop fast fall dair with luma hanging and spiking right off the ledge. Also when doing the fsmash on the ledge, do you have to crouch first to lower luma`s height or will it work if you just simply down angle fsmash from standing?

Doesn't Rosalina's Down Smash hit slightly above the ground? I can't remember, but if it is the case, then I don't think you can hit people hanging on the ledge. As for what I like to do, I like to have Luma spinning at the edge to destroy them, pretty much, or just a D-air spike.

Also I'm pretty sure a down angled Forward Smash is enough to get people on the ledge.

 

[GHOST4700]

What is Rosalina's neutral game and her neutral options?

 

[alexthepony]

what kill eariler her third jab or utilt. also what is better for combos after luma jab 1 2, utilt or jab 3, jab 3 hits at 80 degrees and utilt hits at 90, so easier for follow ups, not sure which to do.
and also when does her 2nd side of dsmash kill, with and without luma. i mean by 2nd is her 2nd hit of dsmash

 

[Smasher89]

Im lacking in my punishgame when I get jabs in which is giving me a major disadvantage to often lose to "random smashes" since Ill have to be on point so much more.

That said, i think from jabs, specificly after jab 1-2, Luma upair or nair is probably the best bet, depending on stage position, expected reaction and %.
I've seen people do followups from spinning luma though, not sure if those are guarantied and if thats some stuff that only work at low % without a lumahit or what makes it viable.

 

[BSP]

How am I supposed to deal with Rosalina? As a Pac-Main.

Go read everything I said in the Rosalina vs Pac-Man thread. Rosalina is not a MU you need to switch off of Pac-Man for.

Contrary to popular belief, you can sit back vs. Rosalina as Pac-Man if you so choose. Just don't time yourself out.

 

[GrandeurCicero]

If Rosalina is stuck in a jab lock, can Luma act while Rosa is getting up? Trying to do turnip locks with Peach, and this might screw me up dearly.