Q&A The Rosalina Q&A Thread

[Axel311]

When should we be using dthrow to upair instead of upthrow to upair? I see Dabuz do both but not sure at what percentages we should be using dthrow verses upthrow.

 

[Planty]

When should we be using dthrow to upair instead of upthrow to upair? I see Dabuz do both but not sure at what percentages we should be using dthrow verses upthrow.

D-throw is past 110% because if they don't DI properly, it creates a 50/50 for Uair kills. At pretty much any other percentage, U-throw combos are the go-to.

 

[Saturn_]

I've got some very specific things I could use help with.

1. Characters that can return to the stage with fair are giving me a lot of trouble. When I force a Pikachu, or a Samus, on the ledge, they have been ledge releasing and returning to the stage with fair. Characters with strong and quick fairs seem to have a much easier time beating most Luma-jab setups. What should I be looking for to counter this strategy?
   
2. Characters with powerful dash attacks have an easy time killing Luma because they can beat shield. Cloud, Ganondorf, and Samus can all just dash attack you in neutral, and even if you shield they will go through you and hit Luma, making it difficult to punish while potentially killing Luma. What's the best way to defend against dash attack in neutral?
3. Floaty characters can easily avoid jabs by short hoping, especially when close or after rolling. What are good ways to punish floaty opponents who short hop a lot?

 

[LightningLuxray]

I've got some very specific things I could use help with.

1. Characters that can return to the stage with fair are giving me a lot of trouble. When I force a Pikachu, or a Samus, on the ledge, they have been ledge releasing and returning to the stage with fair. Characters with strong and quick fairs seem to have a much easier time beating most Luma-jab setups. What should I be looking for to counter this strategy?
   
2. Characters with powerful dash attacks have an easy time killing Luma because they can beat shield. Cloud, Ganondorf, and Samus can all just dash attack you in neutral, and even if you shield they will go through you and hit Luma, making it difficult to punish while potentially killing Luma. What's the best way to defend against dash attack in neutral?
3. Floaty characters can easily avoid jabs by short hoping, especially when close or after rolling. What are good ways to punish floaty opponents who short hop a lot?

1. Bait it out! They'll only usually do this if you're right by the ledge, so walk away and punish the landing lag (this works especially well with Samus). You can also walk up, and then dash away right as they fair and, say pivot forward tilt to punish.
2. Dash attacks can be very annoying because they can smash right through jab walls and send Luma into tumble. My recommendation would be to attempt to bait it out with foxtrots and dash backs, waiting out the dash attack and then punishing the endlag. If they do hit your shield, you can often times punish with a grab combo with solo Rosalina, giving time for Luma to recover from tumble.
3. When using jab, it's important to be mindful of your opponent's options to get around it. The defensive options are usually roll and jumping. If they're using these a lot, I'd highly recommend sticking to only jabs 1 and 2 in neutral, and then punishing defensive attempts to get around it afterwards. For example, I jab 1, my opponent sees this and attempts to jump over. However, if I've already established that they're response to jab is jump, I can stop jabbing after jab 1 and up smash / up air, depending on how exactly they've jumped (short hop or full hop, with or without an airdodge, etc). On a side note, this is why most top Rosa players use tilt C-Stick, because it make doing frame perfect up airs much easier to punish attempts to go over jabs, among other things (if you have smash stick, you risk doing a jump cancel up smash instead). The same concept applies with roll; if I jab 1 and my opponent rolls through it, I can be ready to grab them after the first or second jab. This takes a lot of practice to get down and preform well, and it's why it's important to be very mindful of what your opponent is doing during the match.

Hopefully this all makes sense.... it's pretty late where I am haha, so if it sound confusing feel free to message me <3

 

[Planty]

Characters with powerful dash attacks have an easy time killing Luma because they can beat shield. Cloud, Ganondorf, and Samus can all just dash attack you in neutral, and even if you shield they will go through you and hit Luma, making it difficult to punish while potentially killing Luma. What's the best way to defend against dash attack in neutral?

I actually really like crawling with Rosalina. If you use crawls effectively, you could optimize your spacing while remaining grounded and facing your opponent. It's not just useful for dash attacks, but my main use of crawls if to avoid dash attacks against certain characters like Fox.

 

[Royug]

I actually really like crawling with Rosalina. If you use crawls effectively, you could optimize your spacing while remaining grounded and facing your opponent. It's not just useful for dash attacks, but my main use of crawls if to avoid dash attacks against certain characters like Fox.

What do you mean ? How does crawling makes you avoid Fox's dash attack ?

 

[Planty]

What do you mean ? How does crawling makes you avoid Fox's dash attack ?

It's a bit weird to explain. Fox's dash attack covers a set distance. If you crawl backwards to move out of that burst range, he has to dash forward a bit before using a dash attack, thus throwing off his spacing. It's similar to just walking away, but with a crawl you still face him to scare him out of doing anything unexpected. Crawling is mostly useful at longer distances though.

Another example is if someone is falling and about to hit you with an aerial, but you don't want to challenge them, for whatever reason. You could crawl backwards to avoid the falling aerial and punish with something.

Crawling is mostly situational, but it's quite a valuable asset if you know when to use it. Go online or something and just try crawls against more aggressive characters and you'll find uses.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

Has any research been done on the frame advantage of the character's Jabs at different Rage values?

 

[circuspig]

In matches, I'm never able to really establish space and control with Rosaluma. How do I do this? I understand that her dtilt is quite good and I use it a bit, but how do I use nair to space like I should be able to? No one seems to respect my moves. I've heard that her jabs are great, should I jab1-2 to establish space and control or jab1-2-3 or rapid jab? When should I use these jabs otherwise? When should I shoot out my Luma? I know that people say that it is matchup dependent, but is there a general idea? Like against someone like Lucas, I think I might want to shoot her out. I'm not really certain, and I have a tourney tomorrow.

EDIT: Also, could someone help me with spacing? I feel I have a poor tendency to bair or nair into an opponent's shield, and not drift away. Is that all I have to do? Drift away? When? Thanks.

 

[ChikoLad]

In matches, I'm never able to really establish space and control with Rosaluma. How do I do this? I understand that her dtilt is quite good and I use it a bit, but how do I use nair to space like I should be able to? No one seems to respect my moves. I've heard that her jabs are great, should I jab1-2 to establish space and control or jab1-2-3 or rapid jab? When should I use these jabs otherwise? When should I shoot out my Luma? I know that people say that it is matchup dependent, but is there a general idea? Like against someone like Lucas, I think I might want to shoot her out. I'm not really certain, and I have a tourney tomorrow.

EDIT: Also, could someone help me with spacing? I feel I have a poor tendency to bair or nair into an opponent's shield, and not drift away. Is that all I have to do? Drift away? When? Thanks.

You're kinda asking a lot of questions at once here that sound very similar so it's kind of overwhelming, but I'll try to give answers that encompass as much as possible.

One thing to be aware of in spacing with Rosalina & Luma is that certain attacks will make even a tethered Luma move away from Rosalina. Then, if you use more attacks, like aerials, while Luma is spaced away, his movement will stay synched with Rosalina's, but he will be a greater distance from her than normal when tethered, and may even have his position adjusted vertically (like with Up-Air). This is one effective way of spacing, and you can do this by alternation between jabs and aerials in quick succession. How this works and what you can do with it is kinda deep so I'd say it's best to just play around on your own in training mode to get a feel for what moves make Luma move where.

Using N-air to effectively space kind of involves learning what I described above. You need to be able to manipulate Luma's position even when tethered to maximise the coverage of Rosalina & Luma's combined moves, and N-air is something you kind of need to be able to time. It moves Rosalina's hurtbox in a 360 degree rotation, so it's sort of a dodge maneuver in it's own right. You can, for example, short hop N-air over Robin's Arcfire with ease, and punish him by hitting with the tail end of Rosalina's rotation. It has little landing lag so you can easily do whatever after landing, but you need to be careful not to be too reckless with it, because your are committed to the move so long as you are still in the air, so you need to be able to either make the hit, or have enough room to pull back on a whiff, which can threaten the opponents space if you constantly weave in and out with it with good timing.

Before I give more specific answers on when to shoot out Luma, I will just say that you should first learn how a detethered Luma controls, thoroughly. Controlling Rosalina and de-tethered Luma at the same time requires a lot of practice to prevent Luma from just being smacked off-stage, and to effectively use him as a second unit. So knowing the controls is essential. It's best to experiment on your own to get a feel for it.

As for exactly when to shoot out Luma after learning his controls, shooting him off-stage to threaten a character's recovery space is one obvious option you have. He's also effective against slower characters since he "runs" pretty fast, and especially big ones who are easy to hit. I also find Luma Shot as an attack can be pretty good as a punish option, as hits your opponent and gets Luma out safely, giving you time to set him up in whatever way as the opponent recovers. Really though, using de-tethered Luma well isn't something that can be taught. It's something you need to experiment with after learning his controls and is where your creativity has a chance to really shine. Most Rosalina players, even big name ones, actually opt not to send Luma out that much just because it's so daunting and difficult to learn how to do so effectively.

Also in terms of spacing, well...spacing is sort of a "universal" concept. If you're good at spacing with one character, you should be fine with the rest given some time with them. I feel a good way to learn spacing is just to play with Marth, because he relies on it so heavily, and it's pretty challenging to space perfectly with Marth. If you can space well with Marth, you'll be fine with Rosalina. Also, learn how to consistently do Lunar Landing with Rosalina, as that enhances her spacing capabilities tremendously.

 

[circuspig]

words

Thank you very much! Is there any chance you could elaborate on your last sentence, about Lunar Landing? It's a fairly easy tech for me to perform, and I can see combo potential, but should I just throw it out every time I'm going to land? From what I've read it seems people like Bair Lunar Land a lot, are there good uses for the other ones too? I appreciate your time.

 

[ChikoLad]

Thank you very much! Is there any chance you could elaborate on your last sentence, about Lunar Landing? It's a fairly easy tech for me to perform, and I can see combo potential, but should I just throw it out every time I'm going to land? From what I've read it seems people like Bair Lunar Land a lot, are there good uses for the other ones too? I appreciate your time.

D-air Lunar Landing is also great because Luma's D-air is basically a Smash Attack.

And if you can't think of an immediate use for Luma as you're landing, especially when your opponent might be nearby, then yeah there is no harm in throwing out. You can then shield or something with Rosalina, for example, while Luma applies pressure, or start setting Rosalina up for a follow up.

Also I forgot to mention it earlier, but if you haven't been using Pivoted Luma B-airs, you should start practicing and experimenting with that. It's an INCREDIBLY effective spacing tool that a lot of people just sort of forget to use.

Also, I forgot to mention Star Bits earlier. You probably already use them, but they're pretty effective at just keeping people stuck in hitstun for a second so you can follow up, especially since they have a nice bit of range to them.

 

[Planty]

D-air Lunar Landing is also great because Luma's D-air is basically a Smash Attack.

And if you can't think of an immediate use for Luma as you're landing, especially when your opponent might be nearby, then yeah there is no harm in throwing out. You can then shield or something with Rosalina, for example, while Luma applies pressure, or start setting Rosalina up for a follow up.

Also I forgot to mention it earlier, but if you haven't been using Pivoted Luma B-airs, you should start practicing and experimenting with that. It's an INCREDIBLY effective spacing tool that a lot of people just sort of forget to use.

Also, I forgot to mention Star Bits earlier. You probably already use them, but they're pretty effective at just keeping people stuck in hitstun for a second so you can follow up, especially since they have a nice bit of range to them.

About that last bit on star bits, they're actually -5 on HIT. Pretty much any character can just Nair if they're hit by it or jump and air dodge. Against good players you shouldn't be getting anything other than situational traps in specific match ups. It's also quite poor on shield. The risk reward just isn't there. Better to reposition or whatever than to throw out star bits.

 

[ChikoLad]

About that last bit on star bits, they're actually -5 on HIT. Pretty much any character can just Nair if they're hit by it or jump and air dodge. Against good players you shouldn't be getting anything other than situational traps in specific match ups. It's also quite poor on shield. The risk reward just isn't there. Better to reposition or whatever than to throw out star bits.

Forcing an opponent to jump and air dodge can be a good way to trap them, though.

Same with making them use an N-air or something, especially if it doesn't have much range.

Star Bits is one of those moves that's cool when you mess around with Luma's position a lot.

 

[GHOST4700]

Does anyone know the timing of when to D-tilt Fox's side B to ledge with Rosa, like Dabuz did against Larry multiple times?

 

[Saturn_]

Does anyone know the timing of when to D-tilt Fox's side B to ledge with Rosa, like Dabuz did against Larry multiple times?

Depending on how they angle it, you might not be able to hit them. Dtilt is very safe so even if you miss, you have good positioning, but if they go low enough or sweetspot properly they won't get hit.

I've started experimenting with jab 1-2-nair with Luma as a way to kill at high %s, does anyone else do this? Is it an effective strategy?

 

[Green Zelda]

How important is lunar landing, and how can I learn how to do it consistently?

 

[ChikoLad]

How important is lunar landing, and how can I learn how to do it consistently?

Very important, as it opens up a lot of possibilities, like letting Rosalina compete frame-data wise with other characters, attacking while shielding or rolling, etc.

Use training mode and the slow time feature to learn at what point in her aerial's animations she can execute it, then train your eyes to pick up on that in real time.

 

[LightningLuxray]

In addition, lunar landing has great combo / damage racking potential! Definitely something worth practicing and implementing in your gameplay n_n

 

[rowcla]

So, I've been picking up Rosaluma recently, and had a few questions.

First of all, I noticed that dtilt seems to cover every get up option from the ledge (though, covering jump requires insane reaction times (or maybe looking at your opponent's controller or something)), is there some reason why this isn't the case? As I assume that'd be a pretty big deal otherwise.

I'm also wondering how people tend to deal with sword fighters, generally, characters with decent disjoints. I tend to try and keep people out of their range, and in mine, so do I just have to suck up the fact that, when facing a character like Marth, I can't always be as safe as I'd like?

And does anyone have any particular recommendations for good secondary options? I've been practising Mario because I hear he's one of the best options vs MK and Pikachu, though I'm interested in hearing other people's thoughts, as well as what some other options may be

 

[luke_atyeo]

hey dudes, I'm trying to collect a bunch of quick easy info graphics on essential character knowledge to make a quick reference guide for commentators (we all hate it when a commentator says something that is wrong)
This shulk thing here is an example of the kinda stuff I am looking for

I'm going around to all the character boards and it'll be a little messy for me to try and check them all, so if you have any cool things like that, or just some useful info that I could turn into a similar picture, please send me a message. Cheers lads.

 

[Berni_Alt]

I was wondering how many lagframes does rosalina have when she uses upspecial on the ground, if someone could answer me that would be nice, i checked kuroganehammer but it doesnt say on there.

 

[Royug]

What do you mean, how many lagframes ? After Rosa's Up-B she falls into helpless state until she can land on the ground, and this is true wether you do the Up-B from the ground or in the air.

At some point you can start doing aerials with Luma though, when the move is over and Rosa enters helpless state I believe. I just tested it in training mode and I think it takes about 70 frames.

 

[Berni_Alt]

What do you mean, how many lagframes ? After Rosa's Up-B she falls into helpless state until she can land on the ground, and this is true wether you do the Up-B from the ground or in the air.

At some point you can start doing aerials with Luma though, when the move is over and Rosa enters helpless state I believe. I just tested it in training mode and I think it takes about 70 frames.

I mean the frames of lag when she lands

 

[Royug]

Oh, I believe it's 30 frames then, but I'm not completely sure. The number is from this : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...RMNNqVb8uJQL_g0KWgl4IOjXQ/edit#gid=1478544066

 

[Berni_Alt]

Oh, I believe it's 30 frames then, but I'm not completely sure. The number is from this : https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...RMNNqVb8uJQL_g0KWgl4IOjXQ/edit#gid=1478544066

sorry looked at the wrong character

 

[Char Seasalina]

Okay, so despite being on here for nearly a year, I still haven't gotten the hang of Smashboards. I've two questions.

Does anyone happen to know the longest Rosalina thread?

May I see the Rosalina threads? I remember seeing one in the first edition social thread, but I forgot about it.

 

[Uffe]

I don't deal with this MU very often, so it's a must for me to pull out Ness and make an effort to fight Rosalina & Luma. The thing is, I don't feel like I have a lot of options against Rosalina specifically. Tonight I was playing against a Rosalina main, or I'm assuming he mains Rosalina because of how much trouble he was giving me. I was two stocked several times, and I guess that was really my fault, because after he pulled out Lucina and I beat the guy, I said, "ROSAPLZ" and he went back to her, and I actually did decent after that. Anyway, he would wait for me to approach, and when I tried to psych him out, he didn't even flinch. No movement, no shield, no nothing. He just waited. This usually happened when I got rid of his Luma. I suspect I was playing predictable because I don't know how to deal with characters who just camp. I tried my hardest to space with fair/nair/bair/uair, but more often than not, he'd block and go in for a grab and start juggling. The thing is, Luma is this wall that has too good of a knockback in her attacks, which I think is really stupid, so I'm afraid to just go in for grabs, because Luma plus shield is super safe and super annoying. And I refuse to switch to another character to deal with this MU, because one, I don't feel like investing anymore time in another character who I might hardly use, and two, Ness is really the only character I need to invest time in because I'm not exactly the greatest.

So how do I deal with Luma?

How do I deal with Rosalina's shield when Luma is present?

How do I approach Rosalina, or anyone for that matter, when my baiting does nothing? Kind of hard not to be predictable in this situation.

How do I avoid getting juggled in the air so many times? (I tried dodging away, not dodging, attacking instead, and I got punished.)

If I had to choose a different character to deal with Rosalina, who would be the best options?

 

[CovetedTerminus]

Heya, I was wondering if anybody knew how to lock Luma in place with their continuous jab (the little spinning attack Luma does that lasts for as long as you mash the button) while still being able to move Rosalina around. I've seen Dabuz and a couple other people do it but whenever I try, Rosalina gets stuck in the jab animation as well

If necessary, I can find a video of what I mean. I think it'd be a great tool for controlling space and your opponent's movement and wanna experiment with it

 

[Koiba]

Heya, I was wondering if anybody knew how to lock Luma in place with their continuous jab (the little spinning attack Luma does that lasts for as long as you mash the button) while still being able to move Rosalina around. I've seen Dabuz and a couple other people do it but whenever I try, Rosalina gets stuck in the jab animation as well

If necessary, I can find a video of what I mean. I think it'd be a great tool for controlling space and your opponent's movement and wanna experiment with it

https://smashboards.com/threads/the-luma-spin-and-you-a-quick-guide.378000/

Main trick is to hold the a button and Luma will keep spinning

 

[CovetedTerminus]

https://smashboards.com/threads/the-luma-spin-and-you-a-quick-guide.378000/

Main trick is to hold the a button and Luma will keep spinning

Thank you so much! I was having trouble finding this on the boards for some reason

 

[Koiba]

Thank you so much! I was having trouble finding this on the boards for some reason

It was in this thread: https://smashboards.com/threads/rosaluma-at-thread.395256/

The original was probably buried in the boards
Sometimes you gotta search up and down~

 

[Omastar]

A few questions if you guys don't mind answering. The more detailed the answer the better!

• What does Dabuz do that separates him from other top Rosa mains like Falln?
• Having a lot of problems with MK as the MU is bad, who do you guys use to counter MK?
• What is the optimal control scheme for the character? Should we switch to tilt stick for the added aerial movement?
• What moves should we be using in neutral to control space?
• Any advanced tech for the character besides Lunar landing?
• What movement techs should we be using? Is perfect pivoting good? Foxtrot?
  

Thanks a lot everyone!