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Q&A The Rosalina Q&A Thread

RosalinaSGS

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As Rosalina, when I'm hit a large distance away from Luma and the opponent positions himself away from Luma but still along the line from Luma to me, what's the best way to make Luma stop panicking and fly towards me without doing something laggy enough to prevent me from making it attack as it moves? Obviously doing an aerial will start it moving, but it'll whiff and fly by without incident. Waiting around makes it take ages to start moving. Would an airdodge speed it up? Double jump? Something else?
Hm... this might not be what you're looking for, but I know Gravitational Pull summons Luma, and I think it's faster than just an ordinary recall. So... there's that, although it still tends to be laggy.


I have been having trouble against people who just short hop uses an aerial and pulls back in attempt to separate the luma and limit your options. Rosa is also very tall so that makes it more likely to get hit. often time the only time I can get in is when I dash attack. I tend to stand still and shield so this makes it more challenging.
The reason I made this a thread because I figured I may not be only person who has this issue. If anyone can help that would be great!
Usually in this sort of scenario Rosalina should win out imo. ftilt usually fast enough to clash and should probably beat out most aerials. dtilt also sometimes works. Personally, I like nair with its massive coverage. Is there a specific match-up you're having trouble with?
 
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mario123007

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Has anyone made videos of all of rosas match ups?
You can check the Rosa video thread and see which videos are missing. If you are saying brief Rosa MU discussion/analysis videos, I don't think there's any.
 

CrazyPerson

Smash Journeyman
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Jan 3, 2015
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http://www.twitch.tv/dabuz18/v/18651696

In the process of this... if our jab is nerfed where it can be escaped so quickly in addition to damage loss...

Are we still viable? Wanting to know if the time I put into training (which I don't have much of) will be worth it. I have no ambition to become the next ZeRo... but I want to attend some tournaments and at least be competitive.


EDIT: Wow... some more of my go to stuff (be it amature level) looks to be un useable against a quality player... at least shiek? Does this apply to other charecters?

 
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DisidisiD

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Feb 21, 2015
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271
http://www.twitch.tv/dabuz18/v/18651696

In the process of this... if our jab is nerfed where it can be escaped so quickly in addition to damage loss...

Are we still viable? Wanting to know if the time I put into training (which I don't have much of) will be worth it. I have no ambition to become the next ZeRo... but I want to attend some tournaments and at least be competitive.


EDIT: Wow... some more of my go to stuff (be it amature level) looks to be un useable against a quality player... at least shiek? Does this apply to other charecters?
Who said it was easier to escape? If anything, it should be harder to escape.
 

CrazyPerson

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Who said it was easier to escape? If anything, it should be harder to escape.
Dabuz did a lot of testing of jab, airels etc... and his conclusion was "I need to pick a new main." We are much more prone to Shield and punish... it seems. I am no where near on his level to really comment... but he seemed discouraged... and if the best player in the world at our character is discouraged...

Check that vid I linked... it isn't the most fun thing to watch but it will do a better job explaining stuff than me.
 

LightningLuxray

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Aug 15, 2014
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I have been having trouble against people who just short hop uses an aerial and pulls back in attempt to separate the luma and limit your options. Rosa is also very tall so that makes it more likely to get hit. often time the only time I can get in is when I dash attack. I tend to stand still and shield so this makes it more challenging.
The reason I made this a thread because I figured I may not be only person who has this issue. If anyone can help that would be great!
I know this is a bit late, but try dashing and rolling back and forth. Dabuz does it a lot, usually against characters which are fast (ZSS and Sheik especially). Jab and up smash are also great moves to combat continued aerials - up smash has great priority with Luma so use it often if they jump a lot!

Dabuz did a lot of testing of jab, airels etc... and his conclusion was "I need to pick a new main." We are much more prone to Shield and punish... it seems. I am no where near on his level to really comment... but he seemed discouraged... and if the best player in the world at our character is discouraged...

Check that vid I linked... it isn't the most fun thing to watch but it will do a better job explaining stuff than me.
Sorry for the double post but I just saw this and would like to reply. Just note beforehand I'm not amazing at this game or anything so this is just my interpretation of what Rosa will be experiencing. Only time will tell where she'll eventually settle down after the patch.

Dabuz is right in saying Rosa has been both directly and indirectly nerfed. The jab nerf took one of our best spacing tools and made it much less safe on shield and much easier to escape, which is very unfortunate since it was an amazing tool in MUs like Meta Knight (still is, just not as incredible as it was before.) Indirectly, shield stun being increased / shield regeneration being decreased has seriously hindered defensive gameplay overall and made it much less "safe" than it previously was. Mainly it allows for easier time spacing on shield by our opponent, it allows us to be punished for shielding more and it makes us much more prone to having our shield broken. These things have definitely made Dabuz, a player who already felt Rosalina was barely top 10 pre-patch, very disappointed and wanting to switch.

However, this doesn't mean Rosalina is unviable, or even mid tier. It just means that she is going to have to be playing a lot different then she was before. I think offensive gameplay with Rosalina will become more prominent, because between Lunar Landing and great aerials in bair / nair, we have a lot of new ways to put pressure on our opponent that we never had before (you even see in the video how nair / bair are very safe of shield.) I think another thing to consider is the fact that because our opponents are probably going to be shielding less, there's a good chance they will be jumping / dashing more, which means tools such as up smash, down tilt, and forward tilt become much more potent. Even jab, while overall nerfed, is still useful when detatched considering smash 4 will be much more movement-based and less shield-based, meaning it's more likely to catch the opponent than it was before. Finally, I think it's important to consider what wasn't nerfed about Rosalina - Luma is still incredibly disruptive, up air still kills insanely early, and our edgegaurding game is still one of the best. Overall, I think most Rosalina players are just going to have to adapt to what is now a more offensive and detatch-based character with good zoning tools, even if our movement speed isn't the best.

I think this nerf to defensive gameplay is why Dabuz is so heartbroken. He has been a defensive player since Brawl, and is amazing at spacing, zoning, defensive movement, and punishing even the slightest over commitment by the opponent. Rosalina having less defensive tools really hurts what he excels at - defense. He also seems to doubt the character a lot in general... Even though he basically only loses to Nairo and Zero consistently, with the occasional loses to ESAM / Mr. R, he's talked about how he felt Rosalina was "unviable" even before the patch. All in all it seems in his best interest to switch mains to a character he has more confidence in. However, because this defensive nerf was basically universal (you hear him talking about Olimar's nerf as well) I'm not sure who he would pick up in replacement. Possibly Shiek for her now incredibly safe moves and decent camping game..?

So yeah tl;dr I think Rosalina is going to have to adapt to the current metagame and will be playing much different than she was before. Only time will tell where she'll end up on the tier list... If this uncertanty doesn't appeal to you, then I'd consider switching, or perhaps holding off on Rosalina until the metagame settles a bit (Genesis will hopefully show where Rosalina stands.) If you're planning on sticking with her, I'd recommend practice, practice, and more practice - it's important to test her options post-patch and see how she can now adapt to be used most effectively.
 
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Lange

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Few questions

Need help with the FOX MU I feel like it's very difficult. His punish game is insane and it's hard to force him to approach. Lost to a fox guy in tourney I felt was not as good as me as a player but really got the best of me in a lot ways. Jab cancel to wall fox? Unsafe? Tilts he can just dash in. Juggles rosa in the air and easy to die from a up air. Up smash kills early too. People talking about gimping fox in the MU thread other than D tilting his side B what else is there?

Also in the falcon MU how do you avoid his up air? I got zero death basically off pairs. Thanks
 

Bill cipher3

Smash Cadet
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Sep 22, 2015
Messages
65
Few questions

Need help with the FOX MU I feel like it's very difficult. His punish game is insane and it's hard to force him to approach. Lost to a fox guy in tourney I felt was not as good as me as a player but really got the best of me in a lot ways. People talking about gimping fox in the MU thread other than D tilting his side B what else is there?

Also in the falcon MU how do you avoid his up air? I got zero death basically off pairs. Thanks
Well in Fg I gimp fox / falco by spacing a Fsmash so he's side Bing right into it idk about the other stuff really
 
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Smasher89

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. People talking about gimping fox in the MU thread other than D tilting his side B what else is there?

Also in the falcon MU how do you avoid his up air? I got zero death basically off pairs. Thanks
Haven't looked into the frame data, but in the other games you can usually go out and spike the up b due to slow startup, i think the fire get active faster in this game, but if hes used side b and recovers low his only option is the up b which you can always try to spike, and if it trades it might even then be worth it.
 

Jams.

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I've noticed that running usmash with Rosalina and Luma loses a lot of range because Rosalina slides while Luma doesn't. Does Rosalina have any alternatives to this option that doesn't have this disadvantage (ie. dash->shield->JC usmash; waiting to return to neutral before usmashing, foxtrot->usmash, etc.)? Are any of these options ubiquitously better than running usmash, or should I still use running usmash in some situations?
 

alexthepony

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I notice sometimes dabuz uses up air randomly when he is away from the oppent and in the air, and also has his luma separated, I don't understand what it does. does it recall luma?
 

LightningLuxray

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I notice sometimes dabuz uses up air randomly when he is away from the oppent and in the air, and also has his luma separated, I don't understand what it does. does it recall luma?
He's most likely trying to hit the opponent with Luma's Up Air, which he has to activate by using Up Air with Rosalina.
 
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Funkermonster

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I've been playing Rosalina for a bit now, but starting this Sunday I've decided to play her for real and get serious with her. I'm a little bad with her atm and there are some things I'm kinda struggling with, so I came here for help to put m on a better start. Right now, I do at least know what Lunar Landing is and a few of her combos and edgeguard tactics though but I think I need to know more than that.

1. What general tips do you have for the neutral game and what moves should I be using most? I know she's a fortress character who walls others out, so I find myself going for Dtilts, Jabs, Ftilts, and Star Bits the most, but I still feel a bit lacking in clues on what else to do.

2. When are good times to use NeutralB and separate from Luma? Since I'm not yet good at managing Luma, I don't find myself using NeutralB at all most of the time.

3. What do you use Nair for? I hear a lot of people say its good, but I never heard from them why so. With the move's awkward hitbox and stuff, it doesn't feel like any Nair I've used before so I don't know what to do with it. I think I remember someone once saying its an approach option, so I have tried using it as such a few times but I still get punished for it anyways and/or a low reward from it.

4. What do you do to protect Luma? I usually lose him when shielding stuff and I'm quite accustomed to shielding quite a bit.
 

LightningLuxray

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alexthepony

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User was warned for this post
7:08 for first, 8:06 for 2nd

I'm really confused now... at 7:02 in the first clip, he's up airing for a follow-up, and at 8:00 in the second clip, he's airdodging to avoid aerials and then dairing back on stage. What exactly do you mean? :o
7:08 for first, 8:06 for 2nd
 
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Planty

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1. What general tips do you have for the neutral game and what moves should I be using most? I know she's a fortress character who walls others out, so I find myself going for Dtilts, Jabs, Ftilts, and Star Bits the most, but I still feel a bit lacking in clues on what else to do.

2. When are good times to use NeutralB and separate from Luma? Since I'm not yet good at managing Luma, I don't find myself using NeutralB at all most of the time.

3. What do you use Nair for? I hear a lot of people say its good, but I never heard from them why so. With the move's awkward hitbox and stuff, it doesn't feel like any Nair I've used before so I don't know what to do with it. I think I remember someone once saying its an approach option, so I have tried using it as such a few times but I still get punished for it anyways and/or a low reward from it.

4. What do you do to protect Luma? I usually lose him when shielding stuff and I'm quite accustomed to shielding quite a bit.
Not gonna give the full rundown because I'm lazy.

1. Jabs are amazing because they create a situation where Luma applies pressure while Rosalina stays safe. D-tilt beats out a ton of approach options. These are your main tools. Don't use them. ABUSE THEM UNTIL THEY BEG FOR MERCY AND THE LUMAS CREATE ANOTHER UNIVERSE TO END THEIR SUFFERING (uh.... spoiler alert?).

Nair works great against tall characters because it too beats out a ton of stuff (When using Nair, you want to hit with Luma then move back with Rosalina to cover your landing or mix it up and land the tip of Rosa's Nair in their shield (spaced of course) as you could combo off Nair at low %) Against shorter characters, Nair is much worse. Luma Nair is good as an anti air if you read a jump but not much else since it'll fly over their head (And even against taller characters, they could sometimes punish this move. It's generally better to stay on the ground as Rosa unless you're approaching). Rosa Nair is good for juggling if Luma is dead and you want the guaranteed damage instead of trying to hit a really linear SoRo Uair hitbox.

Starbits are rather lackluster in general. They have some applications, but don't worry about that. They're not the greatest in many matchups.

F-tilt is outclassed by D-tilt. You could use F-tilt if you NEED the extra range, but in general D-tilt is superior.

2. Git gud with this character first and then worry about neutral B. It becomes a whole different gameplan. If you do want to use it, there's a neat edgeguard where you place Luma below the ledge with Rosa on it and you rapid jab. Free gimps on a few characters.

3. Covered it.

4. There's threads on this that will explain much more than I can here.

EDIT: Very important thing that I forgot: When using Nair, you almost always want to fastfall it. and Nair works as a good landing option because you have a huge streak covering everything in front of you.
 
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LightningLuxray

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7:08 for first, 8:06 for 2nd
This is to get out of tumble animation. Airdodging and using any aerial does this. I'm assuming up air is the best aerial for this because it lasts the shortest of Rosalina's aerials.
 
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alexthepony

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This is to get out of tumble animation. Airdodging and using any aerial does this. I'm assuming up air is the best aerial for this because it lasts the shortest of Rosalina's aerials.
whats bad about being in the tumble advantage what are the advantages of it?
 

LightningLuxray

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whats bad about being in the tumble advantage what are the advantages of it?
There are no advantages of being in tumble. When you hit the ground in tumble w/o a tech, you slam on the ground and have to choose a getup option, which is why players try to get out of it. Pretty sure you can find information online about it pretty easily.
 

RosalinaSGS

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whats bad about being in the tumble advantage what are the advantages of it?
Lightning's post covers most of it, but just as an add-on, it is possible to tech if you land while tumbling, which can be advantageous in amateur play, but at high levels techs can be read and/or are slow, thus it is better for Dabuz to get out of it asap (if he does it later, his opponent might capitalise on the endlag of uair). Also, while tumbling, other than a tech, there's also this AT called A-cancel or something where you use the autocancel frames at the beginning of a move so that you only sustain ordinary landing lag instead of teching/ hitting the ground. But that's more for advanced play as the autocancel frames are quite short at the beginning of most moves.
I've been playing Rosalina for a bit now, but starting this Sunday I've decided to play her for real and get serious with her. I'm a little bad with her atm and there are some things I'm kinda struggling with, so I came here for help to put m on a better start. Right now, I do at least know what Lunar Landing is and a few of her combos and edgeguard tactics though but I think I need to know more than that.

1. What general tips do you have for the neutral game and what moves should I be using most? I know she's a fortress character who walls others out, so I find myself going for Dtilts, Jabs, Ftilts, and Star Bits the most, but I still feel a bit lacking in clues on what else to do.

2. When are good times to use NeutralB and separate from Luma? Since I'm not yet good at managing Luma, I don't find myself using NeutralB at all most of the time.

3. What do you use Nair for? I hear a lot of people say its good, but I never heard from them why so. With the move's awkward hitbox and stuff, it doesn't feel like any Nair I've used before so I don't know what to do with it. I think I remember someone once saying its an approach option, so I have tried using it as such a few times but I still get punished for it anyways and/or a low reward from it.

4. What do you do to protect Luma? I usually lose him when shielding stuff and I'm quite accustomed to shielding quite a bit.
Planty's covers most of it, but, again, as an add-on, it's also important to note Luma's nair has weird knockback properties which always send the opponent in the direction Luma was facing when he starts the attack (his attack goes forward, then back, and both hits send him forward).
 

alexthepony

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Lightning's post covers most of it, but just as an add-on, it is possible to tech if you land while tumbling, which can be advantageous in amateur play, but at high levels techs can be read and/or are slow, thus it is better for Dabuz to get out of it asap (if he does it later, his opponent might capitalise on the endlag of uair). Also, while tumbling, other than a tech, there's also this AT called A-cancel or something where you use the autocancel frames at the beginning of a move so that you only sustain ordinary landing lag instead of teching/ hitting the ground. But that's more for advanced play as the autocancel frames are quite short at the beginning of most moves.

Planty's covers most of it, but, again, as an add-on, it's also important to note Luma's nair has weird knockback properties which always send the opponent in the direction Luma was facing when he starts the attack (his attack goes forward, then back, and both hits send him forward).
would it be more frames of lag to end with a tech or auto cancel with an attack right before you hit the ground? and by a canceling, you mean auto canceling, right?
 

RosalinaSGS

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would it be more frames of lag to end with a tech or auto cancel with an attack right before you hit the ground? and by a canceling, you mean auto canceling, right?
A-cancelling allows you to land only with usual landing lag (which is like 7 or so frames, from memory. Maybe 6, don't quote me). This occurs whenever you land on the ground from the air (There are a few exceptions, like Marth's aerial Shield Breaker, which allows you to land with 0 frames of landing lag, but there'll usually be endlag from the special anyway...).
Techs last longer but also have invincibility frames, sort of like a spot-dodge/ roll. However, because they last longer, they can be more easily punished.
TL;DR: Techs last longer than a-cancelling. But techs also have invincibility frames which can be helpful at amateur levels.

Check this out: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOMfbBxVgDY
For more info on auto-cancelling: http://www.ssbwiki.com/Auto-canceling
P.S. It's called a-cancelling because usually, you would press a to cancel the lag. (Bit like L-cancelling, where you would press L). Course, this depends on your input layout, but attack is usually A.
 
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alexthepony

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what do you all like to do at certain percents with this character.
like 0-20
20-50
60-90
 

AlMoStLeGeNdArY

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I've been playing Rosalina for a bit now, but starting this Sunday I've decided to play her for real and get serious with her. I'm a little bad with her atm and there are some things I'm kinda struggling with, so I came here for help to put m on a better start. Right now, I do at least know what Lunar Landing is and a few of her combos and edgeguard tactics though but I think I need to know more than that.

1. What general tips do you have for the neutral game and what moves should I be using most? I know she's a fortress character who walls others out, so I find myself going for Dtilts, Jabs, Ftilts, and Star Bits the most, but I still feel a bit lacking in clues on what else to do.

2. When are good times to use NeutralB and separate from Luma? Since I'm not yet good at managing Luma, I don't find myself using NeutralB at all most of the time.

3. What do you use Nair for? I hear a lot of people say its good, but I never heard from them why so. With the move's awkward hitbox and stuff, it doesn't feel like any Nair I've used before so I don't know what to do with it. I think I remember someone once saying its an approach option, so I have tried using it as such a few times but I still get punished for it anyways and/or a low reward from it.

4. What do you do to protect Luma? I usually lose him when shielding stuff and I'm quite accustomed to shielding quite a bit.
The nuetral with her is basically just that. But I'd also say pivot grabs and tilts. I'd suggest you just throw luma out there and learn how to get used to playing with her detached. It's difficult at first but you'll get used to it. The way falln explained it is you basically want luma be in between your opponent and luma and force them to fet through luma in order to get to Rosalina.

Nair is probably her best move and can be used in s lot of ways. I was thinking about doing a write up on this move. Approaching with nair you want to hit them / their shield with Luma's hit of nair. It comes out frame 3. From there you can weave out or cross up their sheild. The reward for nair depends on which hir you connect with. Luma's first hit won't give you any follows up (maybe da attack if luma landing) Luma's 2nd hit should lead into uair smash or fair from what I've seen from dabuz. You can also use Luma landing nair to star bits. If the last hit of Rosalina nair hits from nair you should be able to get a dtilt at lower percents.

Since nair has a lingering hit box it can be used to catch air dodges. You can also use it to pressure platforms and use it to edgeguard. I'm starting to think this is her best aerial and can be oretty similar to rob's nair. You can also use nair after Luma's 2nd jab. If you get s jab close to the esge it can be pretty devastating. Keep in mind that there's a lot of knockback on Luma's first hit and Rosalina's last hit.

You're not always going to be able to protect Luma. Some characters kill hum way easier thsn others.
 

Nah

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I was sort of wondering what Rosalina's good and bad MUs are.....
 

LightningLuxray

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Bad are Pikachu, Sheik, ZSS and Meta Knight. The latter due to their insane punish game that can kill us insanely early and the former due to their great movement. Ike, Sonic, Dark Pit, and Yoshi are also some MUs people think are bad, but those are a lot more debatable.
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Truthfully, Rosalina's good and bad match-ups are highly debatable for the fact that players aren't willing to utilize Rosalina for more than just defensive purposes. She's capable of doing more, but because people are so used to seeing her play a defensive playstyle, that can end up leading to players underestimating her potential.
 

Planty

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I want to add in that she probably loses to Peach too. Peach just kills Luma so easily and edgeguards Rosa like it's nothing. All we have in neutral against Peach is Bair and... starbits?
 

LightningLuxray

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Up smash, nair w/ Luma, bair, and jab for low floats kind of **** Peach up. Approaching with turnips is also very difficult. I wouldn't say we lose at all, although I'm not exactly sure if we win either, considering how strong fair is. Probably 50/50, or maybe 55/45 in Rosa's favor
 

Mario & Sonic Guy

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Up smash, nair w/ Luma, bair, and jab for low floats kind of **** Peach up. Approaching with turnips is also very difficult. I wouldn't say we lose at all, although I'm not exactly sure if we win either, considering how strong fair is. Probably 50/50, or maybe 55/45 in Rosa's favor
Don't forget about the following thread link if you have anything to contribute for the Rosalina vs. Peach match-up.

http://smashboards.com/threads/404696/
 

Smasher89

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Lol at calling the option "just bair" against peach bad, check HBOX vs any peach in melee, theres nothing more you need since shes always incredibly weak to bair moves. And im sure rosalina has a ton more options then that since peach is not that good in this game.

The bad matchup is basilcy rage <30% kills that might even be guarantied. The balance in this game is at the moment kinda inconsistent but since they are still working on it, and are considering big changes (just look at the shieldstun last pach) it can always get better :D
 
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