The rolling cure

[hichez50]

Well I have been cursed with rolling to much because I have been able to get away with it online. I finally figured out that If I want to progress any more I have to STOP. So far Its been getting me 3 stocked over and over again. My friend stated its because I am focusing on now rolling to much. Well any tips on devloping a new natural play style.

I think it would help if I knew the purpose of rolls.

 

[culexus・wau]

play a DDD.


rolling habit will be gone

 

[phi1ny3]

^ Or a snake.

 

[F1ZZ]

I still have this problem but I must admit it is getting better.

 

[Kitamerby]

Forget Snake and DDD.


Play an Ike.

You'll lose that habit REALQUICK.

 

[RT]

The only way to get rid of the rolling habit is to literally get the habit beaten out of you. Just keep playing people that know how to punish rolls and you'll eventually teach yourself to NOT roll as much.

 

[hichez50]

I think it would be best If I would stick to lucario because under pressure good habits will break. I know from other things I do besides videogames

 

[phi1ny3]

Roll needs to be understood as an option, not as a method of travel. Once one gets that, it starts to disappear.
I still hear too many people discredit roll though because they want to make sure beginners don't get the wrong idea. It's a very viable option with chars that are really linear in fashion.
That being said, I think a way to encourage other methods is replacing some of your rolls with jumps, walks, dashes, turns, etc.

 

[Rayku]

Forget Snake and DDD.


Play an Ike.

You'll lose that habit REALQUICK.

I concur. Hichez, last I played you with Ike I 3-stocked you twice. I don't know if you remember that, but it did happen.

Also, Hichez, if you REALLY want rolling to stop being a habit, let me play you in Melee with my Roy. It's how I stopped rolling in Melee.

 

[RT]

Yeah, if you played Melee, you KNEW rolling was a bad idea. Brawl is more forgiving because of how the game is built.

 

[Kitamerby]

I concur. Hichez, last I played you with Ike I 3-stocked you twice. I don't know if you remember that, but it did happen.

Also, Hichez, if you REALLY want rolling to stop being a habit, let me play you in Melee with my Roy. It's how I stopped rolling in Melee.

lol Roy.

Roy and Ike's sole purpose in Smash is to teach people how to play the game, haha.

 

[hichez50]

Roll needs to be understood as an option, not as a method of travel. Once one gets that, it starts to disappear.

An option for what? Is is rolling an option to dodge or movement or both in some scenarios?

Well I never played melee competitively So I was just playing for fun and never really understood the inner workings of the games.

@ rayku Ill take you up on that challenge. But It might have to wait till decemeber because I might be out of time for this waba. Maybe ill get good enough to beat you in the bar line challenge.

 

[RT]

Rolling is an option for escaping a bad situation, but it's not always the best option. Sometimes it's better to jump, shield, attack, or do nothing at all. Some people use rolling as an approach with Lucario, and while it CAN work sometimes because his roll is very good, a smart opponent will catch on and just start punishing.

It's just like when you trip, most people roll away from their opponent because it's instinct to get farther away, or when you trip near the edge, you roll towards the center because it's instinct to get away from the edge. But you have other options, such as doing a wake-up attack or just standing up. Heck, you might be crazy enough to roll TOWARDS your opponent or the edge. It's just weighing the risks and making a choice based on the risk. Doing something dumb isn't necessarily a bad thing if your opponent isn't expecting it. Just don't be predictable.

 

[phi1ny3]

An option for a move, when you understand the mechanics, I think you start to realize that moving a determined path with unavoidable vulnerability can suck sometimes.

 

[hichez50]

So it should not be used any more than any more of my moves. Makes since why it gets predictable. Now I have to be careful not to devlop any more bad habits because im replace my roll reflexes with some other move as a place holder.

 

[F1ZZ]

Forget Snake and DDD.


Play an Ike.

You'll lose that habit REALQUICK.

This brought back memories of getting Fsmashed.

 

[n88]

@OP

Sexiest sig ever.

I mained G&W for about a week, which certainly helped reduce rollage.

 

[phi1ny3]

If you can't get someone to punish your good roll, get a character with a crappy one.
Good idea.

 

[hichez50]

Is this your highest reccomendation? I know that either way it wont be easy but I want the most effecient way

 

[RT]

Yeah, use Samus and try rolling. You will hate yourself after you get punished for every roll.

 

[Kitamerby]

@OP

Sexiest sig ever.

*ahem*

I don't think using a different character is the best option. I still think it's best to fight an Ike player or something, but meh. It doesn't hurt to try, I guess.

I'm not sure about using Samus, though. She's pretty bad anyways.

 

[n88]

*ahem*

No.

But I see what you're saying about using a different character, too. I suppose different things work better for different people.

 

[F1ZZ]

About using a different character, would suggest using MK. His roll isn't good at all and gets punished very easily. He still is broken though and I find in Brawl tournaments everyone needs a good MK for their main's bad MUs.

Hope this helps.

 

[phi1ny3]

Actually, MK's roll is pretty good.
I'll find the data somewhere <.>
Edit: okay, one's far better, the other's far worse:
Back roll:

4-19 / 27 Lucario

4-12 / 33 Metaknight

Forward roll:
5-12 / 23 Metaknight
4-19 / 27 Lucario
source: http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225510

 

[Kitamerby]

No.

But I see what you're saying about using a different character, too. I suppose different things work better for different people.

Yes.


Actually, no, I just meant that Samus sucked and that maybe there were better alternatives that wouldn't require forfeiting each match in his next tournament, but I'm too lazy to look up the roll data right now.


Edit: Meh, here it is.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=225510

I'd recommend Snake or Marth, personally. Wario or Toon Link might work well, too.

 

[Zucco]

rolling is awesome.

 

[Hobs]

Didn't you post this, Kitamerby?
Now that's just silly.

 

[Karcist]

Yeah, use Samus and try rolling. You will hate yourself after you get punished for every roll.

LOL, or G&W

 

[Kitamerby]

Didn't you post this, Kitamerby?
Now that's just silly.

That reminds me.

Now that's just silly.
Funnily, the Fox also loses to a roll. Talk about coincidental relevancy.

 

[Vionce]

Turn L and R into nothing or taunt. Then play a few matches. You'll start picking up alternatives to rolling. Rolling isn't bad, it's just that you roll at a constant distance. This means that it can be predicted where you are going to end your roll. This game is all about prediction. Whenever we attack, we predict that our opponent is not going to punish that attack via zoning, using a projectile, dodging, etc. Since rolling gives invincibility, it can be used to dodge attacks, thus interrupting our opponents prediction.

Also, rolling changes the direction u face, so it is nice when u want to edgeguard with bair.

 

[Rayku]

Yes.

Oh yeah. This is why I left Lucario boards to begin with >.>

****ing furries.

 

[Kitamerby]

Oh yeah. This is why I left Lucario boards to begin with >.>

****ing furries.

You know you love us.

 

[Alus]

Oh yeah. This is why I left Lucario boards to begin with >.>

****ing furries.

No one is keeping you here.

 

[teluoborg]

Walking is a pretty decent alternative to rolling imo.

Also to stop the rolling reflex I used to have an opponent that would say things like "booh !" or "bad !" at each roll I did (and then he would ftilt me with Snake).
With repetition I started knowing when I was going to roll. Having become aware of when I would roll it was no longer a reflex, so I could choose to not roll and do something clever instead.

TL;DR do whatever it takes to make rolling go from "reflex input" to "conscious input". Then stop inputting it.

 

[phi1ny3]

Yeah, walking is a very underrated thing in this game.
Very important if you're a falco or Marth when you have a really high walk speed, but important for everyone. Being able to still move with the least amount of commitment is very good, if you master it, theoretically the only time you could be hit is if you're backed into a corner or if a move surprised you, because doing walking, running, and jumping around lets you retain your options while still allowing some degree of protection (minus invicibility stuff, but you get the idea).

 

[Rayku]

You know you love us.

Not really. I just love the character

Spoiler

without breasts

 

[tedward2000]

Not really. I just love the character

Spoiler

without breasts

Touche'd and saved.
-t2

 

[Alus]

I think this all started with some G&W main.

 

[master-fresh]

You know you love us.

Not really.

That wasn't very nice.

 

[Samuelson]

When I started to play MK I rolled a lot less because MK just has sooooo many more options. Lucario's roll is extremely good when used correctly, just don't get too predictable with it....obviously.