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The ROB Matchup Thread
- Thread starter TheMike
- Start date
So ROB vs. G&W
The biggest thing for ROB is to not fall for G&W kill moves at earlier percents (100% ish). You should NEVER be hit by the helmet (up smash) or his forward smash. You will only get hit by the helmet if you try to fastfall > air dodge next to G&W and buffer a move/shield. Because the helmet’s hurtbox stays out for such a long time and is stupidly disjoint you will get hit and die. The way to avoid forward smash is to simply never run into G&W. They like to bait you by using forward smash then down smash right after. Luckily we can just fire a laser/gyro and don’t have to run up to G&W to try and punish.
His downsmash will occasionally hit you from good reads, but most of the time it is avoidable. Similarly to forward smash just don’t ever run into G&W. Be careful about your ftilts. If G&W is d-smashing and your just outside his range and go for a ftilt you will be hit since ROB’s hurtbox extends w/ his tilt and G&W has more priority.
Most of G&W’s kills will come from his fair. It is a powerful move that comes out fast and has a good amount of knock back. Luckily for us it also has major cool down so if the G&W wiffs you can usually punish him for it. This can be avoided if the G&W full hops his fair as he is rising and can be difficult to punish. Also watch out for his Oos fair. Because he jumps out of shield the doesn’t get the 7 frames it takes to drop the shield making this a great option for punishing.
G&W’s bair while annoying isn’t going to win him the match. Obviously SDI the turtle, but this can be countered by spacing it differently. If spaced “poorly” and end up behind even if you SDI G&W can still sometimes follow up if you go for a punish. Also tipping the turtle is a great shield poker and pretty much unpunishable. Two tactics that I have yet to implement into my own game are SDIing while in your shield during shieldstun to get closer for a possible grab, and ftilting inbetween the 4th and 5th hit of the turtle. I’m not sure but I believe the G&W can avoid the ftilt if he tips the turtle then di’s away. Also if they are spamming the turtle and being predictable, simply predict their jump and fair them before the turtle comes out.
For ROB G&W’s nair is much worse than his bair. It out prioritizing everything we have (Except maybe f-smash.). Yes that includes nair (it may be possible to get nair to hit w/ right spacing, but I haven‘t figured out what that spacing is and it would be pretty impractical). If you get caught in this move it will pop you up and usually lead to another nair. The best option I have found is DI to a side so if you can’t avoid the second nair G&W’s options are limited. Usually if this is the case they will go for an up-b so simply air dodge, but if they are smart they can bait the air dodge and punish. All mind games. Also is G&W does up-b and you do manage to avoid it be careful not to get hit by a key from above. One great kill set-up is for G&W to fastfall the nair so it auto cancels which leads into a near guaranteed downsmash for the kill.
The key (down air), if defended against properly, should then only be useful for G&W to get back to the ground. It out prioritizes our up-air so don’t bother, however it has hitbox on the sides. That means that any areial from the side will hit it. If know the horizontal spacing of the key you can space yourself accordingly to punish a G&W trying to key you from above if your in the air. I personally go for a nair because it leaves a large margin of error (if timed right it can still hit G&W if you are below him). When your on the ground and the G&W is keying onto you simply shield and punish. You have to do a decent Oos move otherwise you will be hit by a buffered d-tilt. I recommend d-smash so you don’t have to worry about which side G&W is on. Just be careful to drop your shield after the SECOND hit. You can try up-smash which does out prioritize the key, but be careful they can slowfall it and hit you during your cool down. This does create a great mix-up and kill option however. Because you have so many reliable options against the key usually G&W will just key away and try to get to the ground. If you predict this you could go for a laser/gryo, but don’t get predictable yourself. Mindgames again
Spot dodging is near worthless since most of G&W’s moves last long enough to hit your anyways (it is possible to spot dodge the turtle but the timing is strict and not very practical.)
The biggest thing for ROB is to not fall for G&W kill moves at earlier percents (100% ish). You should NEVER be hit by the helmet (up smash) or his forward smash. You will only get hit by the helmet if you try to fastfall > air dodge next to G&W and buffer a move/shield. Because the helmet’s hurtbox stays out for such a long time and is stupidly disjoint you will get hit and die. The way to avoid forward smash is to simply never run into G&W. They like to bait you by using forward smash then down smash right after. Luckily we can just fire a laser/gyro and don’t have to run up to G&W to try and punish.
His downsmash will occasionally hit you from good reads, but most of the time it is avoidable. Similarly to forward smash just don’t ever run into G&W. Be careful about your ftilts. If G&W is d-smashing and your just outside his range and go for a ftilt you will be hit since ROB’s hurtbox extends w/ his tilt and G&W has more priority.
Most of G&W’s kills will come from his fair. It is a powerful move that comes out fast and has a good amount of knock back. Luckily for us it also has major cool down so if the G&W wiffs you can usually punish him for it. This can be avoided if the G&W full hops his fair as he is rising and can be difficult to punish. Also watch out for his Oos fair. Because he jumps out of shield the doesn’t get the 7 frames it takes to drop the shield making this a great option for punishing.
G&W’s bair while annoying isn’t going to win him the match. Obviously SDI the turtle, but this can be countered by spacing it differently. If spaced “poorly” and end up behind even if you SDI G&W can still sometimes follow up if you go for a punish. Also tipping the turtle is a great shield poker and pretty much unpunishable. Two tactics that I have yet to implement into my own game are SDIing while in your shield during shieldstun to get closer for a possible grab, and ftilting inbetween the 4th and 5th hit of the turtle. I’m not sure but I believe the G&W can avoid the ftilt if he tips the turtle then di’s away. Also if they are spamming the turtle and being predictable, simply predict their jump and fair them before the turtle comes out.
For ROB G&W’s nair is much worse than his bair. It out prioritizing everything we have (Except maybe f-smash.). Yes that includes nair (it may be possible to get nair to hit w/ right spacing, but I haven‘t figured out what that spacing is and it would be pretty impractical). If you get caught in this move it will pop you up and usually lead to another nair. The best option I have found is DI to a side so if you can’t avoid the second nair G&W’s options are limited. Usually if this is the case they will go for an up-b so simply air dodge, but if they are smart they can bait the air dodge and punish. All mind games. Also is G&W does up-b and you do manage to avoid it be careful not to get hit by a key from above. One great kill set-up is for G&W to fastfall the nair so it auto cancels which leads into a near guaranteed downsmash for the kill.
The key (down air), if defended against properly, should then only be useful for G&W to get back to the ground. It out prioritizes our up-air so don’t bother, however it has hitbox on the sides. That means that any areial from the side will hit it. If know the horizontal spacing of the key you can space yourself accordingly to punish a G&W trying to key you from above if your in the air. I personally go for a nair because it leaves a large margin of error (if timed right it can still hit G&W if you are below him). When your on the ground and the G&W is keying onto you simply shield and punish. You have to do a decent Oos move otherwise you will be hit by a buffered d-tilt. I recommend d-smash so you don’t have to worry about which side G&W is on. Just be careful to drop your shield after the SECOND hit. You can try up-smash which does out prioritize the key, but be careful they can slowfall it and hit you during your cool down. This does create a great mix-up and kill option however. Because you have so many reliable options against the key usually G&W will just key away and try to get to the ground. If you predict this you could go for a laser/gryo, but don’t get predictable yourself. Mindgames again
Spot dodging is near worthless since most of G&W’s moves last long enough to hit your anyways (it is possible to spot dodge the turtle but the timing is strict and not very practical.)
Obviously don’t spam laser or else G&W will fill his bucket. A good trick is to laser the bucket on purpose (if G&W’s bucket is empty/has 1 charge) and punish the stupid amount of lag the bucket has. This can be a great way to get an easy kill. Just be careful because if that is the last charge the G&W will have almost no lag from the bucket.
One stetup G&W likes to use to get grabs is condition you to shield by approaching with turtle, then dashing into a grab. One possible counter to this is simply walking away. If you get grabbed G&W will almost always d-throw you. G&W might try to d-smash you after but this is easily avoidable by simply rolling in either direct or using a getup attack. If G&W predicts your roll he can hit your with an upsmash. If you techroll the d-throw G&W can't upsmash, but if he buffers a dash (which means he must predict which direction you techroll) he can dash attack, judgement, and i believe fair. One mixup they try is to jab then regrab. This is not guarnteed, but can get you if you miss the tech. You can avoid this by dIing behind G&W so you will end up behind his jab (yes you can choose which side of G&W you land on after the d-throw). Just be careful you don’t eat a hammer if your doing this.
Offstage both chars have a difficult time edge guarding the other. The main way G&W is going to edge guard is with fair. Because your up-b has more mobility you can usually avoid this by staying far away from G&W off the stage. Another trick they like to use to key while your trying to recover. Again this is pretty easy to see coming, just wait away from the stage until after G&W keys then recover onto the stage while he is going for the ledge. If you up high in the corner offstage G&W can jump > up-b you for a kill if you’re not expecting it. It has a surprising horizontal/vertical range.
ROB really can’t chase G&W offstage too well due to his greatly superior aerial mobility. G&W will almost always recover low like marth. Your best bet is to try and edgehog when he is about to up-b. Usually this won’t gimp him, he will recover just barely unto the stage because his up-b has stupid vertical range. This does allow for a free punish (I like fair) if he does make it back unto the stage. G&W can save his jump however allowing him to stall and making it more difficult to edgehog him. I believe if you edgehog and he jumps to stall, you have enough time to let go of the ledge and up-b to quick grab (someone please remind me what this tech is called, all I can remember is it has an obvious name) so you will still have invincibility frames when he is finally forced to up-b. Also its worth noting G&W has a 1 frame of vunurability while up-bing > autosnap to the ledge. If you quick grab the ledge and and let go > a fair you can actually hit him before he grabs the ledge and before your invincibility runs out. Don’t bother this unless you have invincibility frames otherwise you will be hit by his parachute.
Overall in this matchup you NEVER want to run toward G&W. Approaching him at all is usually bad. You want him to be coming to you at all times, and you want to be running away at all times while hitting him back if he gets too close. Unfortunately ftilt isn’t extremely useful in this matchup since most of G&W’s move outright beat it. Because of the bucket brake G&W will probably live to a higher percent than you. Luckily you can do more damage forcing him to approach and hitting him with projectiles. Also avoiding his kill moves can do wonders in this matchup. G&W is a linear char with few mixups, but the ones he has are powerful and extremely effective. Overall I would say its 50-50 and pretty stage dependent.
Sorry I don’t really feel like proof reading this so just point out if anything is phrased poorly/confusingly and I’ll change it.
Edit: fixed the part about grabs. G&W CAN follow d-throw even if you techroll with a fair, judgement, and probably fair.
One stetup G&W likes to use to get grabs is condition you to shield by approaching with turtle, then dashing into a grab. One possible counter to this is simply walking away. If you get grabbed G&W will almost always d-throw you. G&W might try to d-smash you after but this is easily avoidable by simply rolling in either direct or using a getup attack. If G&W predicts your roll he can hit your with an upsmash. If you techroll the d-throw G&W can't upsmash, but if he buffers a dash (which means he must predict which direction you techroll) he can dash attack, judgement, and i believe fair. One mixup they try is to jab then regrab. This is not guarnteed, but can get you if you miss the tech. You can avoid this by dIing behind G&W so you will end up behind his jab (yes you can choose which side of G&W you land on after the d-throw). Just be careful you don’t eat a hammer if your doing this.
Offstage both chars have a difficult time edge guarding the other. The main way G&W is going to edge guard is with fair. Because your up-b has more mobility you can usually avoid this by staying far away from G&W off the stage. Another trick they like to use to key while your trying to recover. Again this is pretty easy to see coming, just wait away from the stage until after G&W keys then recover onto the stage while he is going for the ledge. If you up high in the corner offstage G&W can jump > up-b you for a kill if you’re not expecting it. It has a surprising horizontal/vertical range.
ROB really can’t chase G&W offstage too well due to his greatly superior aerial mobility. G&W will almost always recover low like marth. Your best bet is to try and edgehog when he is about to up-b. Usually this won’t gimp him, he will recover just barely unto the stage because his up-b has stupid vertical range. This does allow for a free punish (I like fair) if he does make it back unto the stage. G&W can save his jump however allowing him to stall and making it more difficult to edgehog him. I believe if you edgehog and he jumps to stall, you have enough time to let go of the ledge and up-b to quick grab (someone please remind me what this tech is called, all I can remember is it has an obvious name) so you will still have invincibility frames when he is finally forced to up-b. Also its worth noting G&W has a 1 frame of vunurability while up-bing > autosnap to the ledge. If you quick grab the ledge and and let go > a fair you can actually hit him before he grabs the ledge and before your invincibility runs out. Don’t bother this unless you have invincibility frames otherwise you will be hit by his parachute.
Overall in this matchup you NEVER want to run toward G&W. Approaching him at all is usually bad. You want him to be coming to you at all times, and you want to be running away at all times while hitting him back if he gets too close. Unfortunately ftilt isn’t extremely useful in this matchup since most of G&W’s move outright beat it. Because of the bucket brake G&W will probably live to a higher percent than you. Luckily you can do more damage forcing him to approach and hitting him with projectiles. Also avoiding his kill moves can do wonders in this matchup. G&W is a linear char with few mixups, but the ones he has are powerful and extremely effective. Overall I would say its 50-50 and pretty stage dependent.
Sorry I don’t really feel like proof reading this so just point out if anything is phrased poorly/confusingly and I’ll change it.
Edit: fixed the part about grabs. G&W CAN follow d-throw even if you techroll with a fair, judgement, and probably fair.
SxK
Karakuri Shogun mdl 00 "Burei"
When trying to approach G&W, I find it useful to glide toss the gyro at him, sliding in either direction. I may do it towards him the first times to implant predictability. Later, slide the other way and while he holds his shield waiting for the sliding smash, prepare the laser. He will probably drop his shield after seeing you go the other way and then punish him. Also, after I d-tilt, and follow up with u-throw, the G&W expects u-air, so they do d-air to go through it. Try jumping up, air dodging, then b-air with either side of the hitbox. At low percentages, this can lead into a dash attack and then go from there.
What do yo think?
What do yo think?
SxK
Karakuri Shogun mdl 00 "Burei"
YEAH BOI. R.O.B is more of a man than METAKNIGHT could ever hope to be.
SxK
Karakuri Shogun mdl 00 "Burei"
An effective tactic for anyone really that I've noticed, (some may already know) is to short hop over someone while they are on the ledge. Drop the gryo on them and it pops them up usually. Sets up perfectly for a spike... See Spammer 4 on Youtube.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20IZLNHCczQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=20IZLNHCczQ
Heartstring
Smash Legend
to be fair, if someone hanging on the ledge for that long they should be shot XD
but if they do-however-fall back to then jump back onstage, then this is an extremely effictive tactic, also if you time it correctly you can set them up fro a fair chain from it, its a tactic i use quite a lot
i also enjoy planting a gyro from charge on the very edge of the stage, so its on the ledgehangers fingers. no matter what action they perform, it WILL hit them
but if they do-however-fall back to then jump back onstage, then this is an extremely effictive tactic, also if you time it correctly you can set them up fro a fair chain from it, its a tactic i use quite a lot
i also enjoy planting a gyro from charge on the very edge of the stage, so its on the ledgehangers fingers. no matter what action they perform, it WILL hit them
SxK
Karakuri Shogun mdl 00 "Burei"
HAhaha aka Wario. The gyro is probably the most effective tactic rob can employ in generals as it acts as a pseudo-ledgegarder, disruptor, and even kill move. On weird thing in notice about it though. When reflected, when at 170%, not even moving just spinning, the gyro has an insane amount of knockback! It almost killed me, just standing still! XD
Silhouette
Smash Lord
Gyros ROBs best move imo, wait till you see my clips in the community combo vid lol.
also if they try to get up from the ledge when you drop a gyro on them its a free F-smash.
also if they try to get up from the ledge when you drop a gyro on them its a free F-smash.
Heartstring
Smash Legend
hmmm, yeah i spose, tied with ftilt, god why have i never noticed how awesome that move it before?
the gyro allows for extremely tricky techchasing and setting up traps. my personal favorite is firing it onto their fingers (as said earlier) so they are forced to drop back/down and then, ohai, fair says hello, and so commence an easy edgeguard
Silhouette
Smash Lord
another favorite of mine is using it as a tricky way to get back to the stage. Fire it over their head, they'll think you have terrible aim and missed, but then you can fly over them and B-air your way to the other side of the gyro. Surprisingly they almost always forget about it since its off screen, and run into it while trying to catch up. = easy landing.
Heartstring
Smash Legend
you have to abuse it correctly though, however it is without a doubt his saving grace when in troublesome situations, just because its such an easy wavebounce, and with gyro cancelling it makes for a trixxy r.o.b, sadly im not all that good at pulling it off XD
SxK
Karakuri Shogun mdl 00 "Burei"
I don't know... I think R.O.B's best move is probably d-tilt. I sets up grab combos like d-tilt->Grab->U-Throw->U-Air. It can also lock on delfino and pokemon stadium, firigate, and many of R.O.B's counterpicks.
Silhouette
Smash Lord
A Gyro in hand is better than a gyro on the charger, the sheer mobility it gives us is outstanding.
Heartstring
Smash Legend
or jsut all the options in general, i find that the gyro is always used for the best kill setups, my only problem is guessing how far im actually going to slide with the glide toss. but i screw some people over so often with sliding d-tilts, as i throw the gyro at them, they shield and then the dtilt mashes away at the rest of the shield, they gonna take damage either way, and if i shield poke originally then i can just fsmash while still sliding toward them, great options everywhere
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
I know you guys are discussing GW right now, but what do you think in general of the D3 MU? I'm legitimately considering secondarying R.O.B. for some of Bowser's harder MUs.
stingers
Smash Obsessed
ROBs worst MU is d3 lol
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Worse than MK? :O
stingers
Smash Obsessed
i would say so, yes.
mk is like 60/40 mk
ddd is like 65/35
imo
mk is like 60/40 mk
ddd is like 65/35
imo
Zwarm
Smash Hero
I think they're both 65/35, I have a harder time with MK, though.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Heartstring
Smash Legend
d3? it are BAAAD
probably his worst behind mk and zero suit imo.
the chaingrab is of course bad, and although r.o.b is a heavyweight his vertical momentum cancel is borderline nonexistent so it sorta cancels there.
at close/mid-range d3 wins with no contest. as although he is slightly slower, he is one of the few characters that seriously ouranges r.o.bs ftilt (which is by far his best spacing move) and if its not spaced perfectly he can even shieldgrab r.o.b's tilts and jab's
as for lnog range, i would say r.o.b wins because he has 1.5 good projectiles whereas d3 only has waddle throw. they stop gyro but r.o.b is one of the few chars who can deal with this with the laser, that move of course has only limited success. but hitting a waddle with a gyro means you can go grab the gyro much more safely. and keeping it in hand is probably the one thnig thats gonig to save you this MU
in the air, its reasonably even. as d3 can punish r.o.b terribad aerial mobility that well considering his own is pretty bad too. their aerial tools can be countered by each other, but d3 has the option to jump continuously whereas r.o.b must use up-b to keep afloat, which removes the option to airdodge.
all in all, its the chaingrab which does it, as usual gyro is an absolute must, as it can end a chaignrab quickly, is probably the safest way of setting up a kill and can assist in edgeguarding d3 (who is much shakier at gettign back to the ledge than r.o.b, a spinning top in the way could be his bane in some scenario's
its actually not as bad as people say IMO, 60;40 d3 at worst
edit: wow, 4 times ninja'd XD
r.o.b entire moveset is built to remove ice climbers from existence, the gyro stops them staying away, they can only blizzard the ftilt, and which rob can jsut walk away or fly around, the framerate on rob '80 (spotdodge dsmash) is just about perfect for punishing an ice climbers failed grab, the two fastest throws ingame to separate the two. its just beautiful man
probably his worst behind mk and zero suit imo.
the chaingrab is of course bad, and although r.o.b is a heavyweight his vertical momentum cancel is borderline nonexistent so it sorta cancels there.
at close/mid-range d3 wins with no contest. as although he is slightly slower, he is one of the few characters that seriously ouranges r.o.bs ftilt (which is by far his best spacing move) and if its not spaced perfectly he can even shieldgrab r.o.b's tilts and jab's
as for lnog range, i would say r.o.b wins because he has 1.5 good projectiles whereas d3 only has waddle throw. they stop gyro but r.o.b is one of the few chars who can deal with this with the laser, that move of course has only limited success. but hitting a waddle with a gyro means you can go grab the gyro much more safely. and keeping it in hand is probably the one thnig thats gonig to save you this MU
in the air, its reasonably even. as d3 can punish r.o.b terribad aerial mobility that well considering his own is pretty bad too. their aerial tools can be countered by each other, but d3 has the option to jump continuously whereas r.o.b must use up-b to keep afloat, which removes the option to airdodge.
all in all, its the chaingrab which does it, as usual gyro is an absolute must, as it can end a chaignrab quickly, is probably the safest way of setting up a kill and can assist in edgeguarding d3 (who is much shakier at gettign back to the ledge than r.o.b, a spinning top in the way could be his bane in some scenario's
its actually not as bad as people say IMO, 60;40 d3 at worst
edit: wow, 4 times ninja'd XD
r.o.b entire moveset is built to remove ice climbers from existence, the gyro stops them staying away, they can only blizzard the ftilt, and which rob can jsut walk away or fly around, the framerate on rob '80 (spotdodge dsmash) is just about perfect for punishing an ice climbers failed grab, the two fastest throws ingame to separate the two. its just beautiful man
SxK
Karakuri Shogun mdl 00 "Burei"
IMO, 45-55. R.O.B just beats DDD in the air, just avoid him in CQC and you should be fine. Get him offstage and stay close and ALWAYS IN FRONT of DDD. Gimp him away and his recovery is easily spikeable. He is heavy so if you can somehow manage a dthrow he doesn't go very far up, giving you all the sweet spots from u-air (Roughly 24%). Alsoeven if they DI away, you can fair them or even hit them with the side hitboxes from uair.
This isn't your typical R.O.B matchup, relying on tilts or the gyro. Adjust accordingly.
This isn't your typical R.O.B matchup, relying on tilts or the gyro. Adjust accordingly.
SxK
Karakuri Shogun mdl 00 "Burei"
Also, pick pikachu for Bowser MUs.
Or, scan the top of the tier list...
GO CRAZY!
Or, scan the top of the tier list...
GO CRAZY!
Neon!
Smash Lord
Next time we play i can teach you R.O.B! He's one of my secondaries.
Zigsta
Disney Film Director
Pikachu's actually the one Pokemon I'll never play. I've just never been a fan of Pikachu in general, and I only play characters I enjoy playing, haha.
Sounds good, buddy!
Heartstring
Smash Legend
mass respect for that son, so many people changing just because theyre good chars -__-
SxK
Karakuri Shogun mdl 00 "Burei"
I've decided to make my secondary Peach, coz mid tiers are pro. Also, lest discuss the samus matchup. IMO, THAT IS A TERRIBLE MATCHUP FO R.O.B. When playing against Samus, R.O.B must approach. This is ou of the norm as a rob player. Between homing missles and zair, R.O.B has a very difficult time approaching samus. 45-55 if not 40-60
Zwarm
Smash Hero
Samus ROB is even, if not in ROB's advantage. Powershield and approach, or just camp right back, Samus can't kill, we can. Her best kill move is to spike, and ROBs up B is probably the best meteor cancel in the game.
Heartstring
Smash Legend
r.o.b can almost always camp, the only chars that give him trouble with camping really is pit and falco, jsut because theyre so much faster at it they dont let you camp effectively (and reflectors too)
just make sure samus doesnt take you to a medium sized stage, because then zair is most effective (battlefield msot importantly)
also, samus camping isnt a real problem, constant zair pressure is however.
Zwarm
Smash Hero
I don't even get why you come to these boards anymore. You don't play this character, and all you ever do is talk him down when you don't even understand his playstyle that well.
SxK
Karakuri Shogun mdl 00 "Burei"
Between the homing projectiles and zair, samus can easily space and disrupt your approaches.
Also, the combo potential is massive, and she will rack up damage on you fast.
Beware...
Also, the combo potential is massive, and she will rack up damage on you fast.
Beware...