Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[DraginHikari]

Someone who doesn't do their job correctly gets fired. Dissapointing millions of fans with deconfirmations like Wonder Red and possibly Ridley counts as being terrible at your job because you're slapping your customers in the face.

The scale is which your using is significantly overstated. When the exclusion of such characters negatively impacts the series in some significant way then that’s a discussion to be had, but at this point there is no evidence of that. You’re simply using your own opinion to simplify a far more complex situation and that somehow justifies firing. In addition the ‘millions’ of fans you’re talking about is heavily assumption based that there is no evidence for either. The only way what your saying would work is if every person that wanted Ridley or Wonder Red was not going to buy the game because they are not in it, though there will definitely be some, that number is in the small percentage at best.

 

[D-idara]

Especially in this case, it totally is. Don't act as if Smash Bros is a dead serious artistic insight into the psyche of a hurt artist. It's a fan-service fighting game and nothing more.

You do realize that art doesn't need to send a super-deep message to be enchanting and beautiful? Smash Bros. a fan-service fighting game and nothing more? Smash Bros. has always been a celebration of all things Nintend, and that's reason enough to consider the game something artistic, because the game's content causes feelings on some people, the people that pay more attention to the characters, the atmopshere, the music and the little details instead of measuring how many inches each hitbox has.

If while playing Super Mario Galaxy, Skyward Sword, Twilight Princess or Fire Emblem Awakening you haven't felt like playing a true work of art, then this conversation's pretty much over. Some people see it, some people don't. And it's OK, just don't go calling videogames 'dumb entertainment'...do you think a critic, a cinephile or even a director wouldn't be pissed if someone said that movies are 'dumb entertainment'?

 

[Shalashaska]

99% is awfully high. I wish I could be nearly that confident. I just can't put that much faith in shadows.

Apparently people on Miiverse can

 

[Deleted member 245254]

I'm assuming they weren't serious about literally being here JUST to antagonize people for supporting a character in their support thread and using basic critical thinking. Simmer down guys.

I certainly do not have a bone with folks who want to root for Ridley. Smash is just one of those games where anything can happen so it's only natural people would have some hopes beyond their wildest. If there's any game you'll get to play Ridley against the rest of the Nintendo-verse, it's Smash.

In a way I sort of worry for the sheer disappointment that would be caused when/if it's confirmed he won't be playable. Judging by the size of this thread and just how passionate and without doubt so many folks seem to be, I would not be surprised if self-inflicted harm became of a de-confirmation announcement.

 

[IsmaR]

The current conversation is having less and less to do with Ridley. Whatever opinion you have on the matter is fine, but arguing about it isn't going to have any effect on his inclusion. Smash Bros goes on with or without any single character, that much is true.

 

[FreeFallUp]

Given the rather (detailed) analyses on, well, everything involving Ridley, I'm guessing he would be not much bigger than the rest of the cast. That's...good I guess. Maybe. I dunno. I've been gone for a while and there are way too many pages to sort through.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I think a bigger (heh) issue for Ridley then size is that he is ALWAYS flying. I mean, some characters have infinite flight in their games (Kirby) and not in Smash, but those characters are still characters that are known to walk from time to time.

Don't get me wrong, Ridley is my most wanted character, it's just funny to me that size is always brought up an not flight.

 

[BKupa666]

I remember "he never, ever walks" was brought up by absolutist detractors pre-Brawl. People had to consistently link his Omega Ridley fight video because people legitimately started to believe he never, ever touched the ground, ever.

 

[majora_787]

Considering how brief the footage we have is, AND the fact that it's just a shadow, we can't say anything about his flight. But there is nothing that says he can't be in the air longer than other characters if he takes specific actions. I'm tired. Didn't notice that you meant in the actual games, not Smash. Oops.

Also, you seem to be neglecting the Prime games and Other M. If you don't acknowledge any of those games as existing, then sure. Ridley literally never does anything but fly. But he walks in Prime 1, 3, and Other M.

 

[SchAlternate]

Wy must sakurai give so many hints to Ridley. Can't wait to drink the tasty tears of the Ridley haters when she's confirmed at e3.

Seriously I'm always a good sport but man when. Ridley is confirmed I'll make sure the Ridleys haters here from me all the time! Lol

Yeah, I can wait until Ridley's ultimate reve-- wait, "she"?

...

...

...

Spoiler

Rosalina confirmed lesbian?

 

[D-idara]

Considering how brief the footage we have is, AND the fact that it's just a shadow, we can't say anything about his flight. But there is nothing that says he can't be in the air longer than other characters if he takes specific actions.

Also, you seem to be neglecting the Prime games and Other M. If you don't acknowledge any of those games as existing, then sure. Ridley literally never does anything but fly. But he walks in Prime 1, 3, and Other M.

I personally think Ridley's dash should be a low flight like most Brawl mods of him.

 

[MrsAccount]

What is Art

I'm not gonna go into this debate because it's got nothing to do with Ridley or the state of this thread anymore, but Nintendo makes dumb entertainment in the same way Pixar makes dumb entertainment. It's pretty, sometimes even gorgeous, but it's best to keep in mind that all it is, is pictures on screen.

 

[Snagrio]

Good lord this thread sure turned nasty since last night.

 

[BKupa666]

I don't see much nastiness at the moment. I do see a self-fulfilling prophecy, though...the more people talk about "Oh, the Ridley thread is so nasty! Oh, it's so off-topic!" the more it will shift in that direction, as people begin to argue "No, no it's not! How could you possibly think that, dummy??"

 

[Spazzy_D]

I wasn't saying the

Considering how brief the footage we have is, AND the fact that it's just a shadow, we can't say anything about his flight. But there is nothing that says he can't be in the air longer than other characters if he takes specific actions. I'm tired. Didn't notice that you meant in the actual games, not Smash. Oops.

Also, you seem to be neglecting the Prime games and Other M. If you don't acknowledge any of those games as existing, then sure. Ridley literally never does anything but fly. But he walks in Prime 1, 3, and Other M.

I didn't mean to insinuate it was a legit argument, I just thought it was funny that I never really saw it brought up when compared to the size argument. Flight is a big, big (heh) part of his movement. Personally, I think the fact that "grounded" Ridley is more or less a quadruped is one of the easiest ways to work around the size and balance thing, as he would be more compact and slower.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

My problem with the concept of him never touching the ground seems to me like he wouldn't be playing by the rules of Smash. I mean that might just be me, and you can try to tell me it's his playstyle. But it doesn't make sense to me if he's always flying.

That would essentially give him a ridiculously overpowered recovery. So if you follow Sakurai Logic of "He'd be slow" that would likely mean that:

1) He's strong
2) Would be Heavy

So if he's strong, heavy, and then has an unlimited recovery, he'd be the most overpowered character in Smash. Hence, why I don't believe he has an unlimited flying thing. That would basically break the rules of Smash. Yes, I DO think this hurts him more, because there is no freaking way that SHOULD happen. Giving him unlimited flying would be incredibly overpowered.

What about characters who can hardly jump? Ganondorf? Well, he's screwed. There's no way he could get up to Ridley.

My stance on this, is that the Ridley we saw in the Direct is a stage hazard boss thing on Pyrosphere. The fact that he never touches the ground simply convinces me that he's meant to be a NPC, simply because the mere concept of him always flying doesn't make any sense in terms of how Smash Bros operates.

I find it highly unlikely the Ridley we saw was playable. Could we get a different Ridley as playable? Maybe. Was it the one in the Direct? Probably not.

 

[Snagrio]

I don't see much nastiness at the moment. I do see a self-fulfilling prophecy, though...the more people talk about "Oh, the Ridley thread is so nasty! Oh, it's so off-topic!" the more it will shift in that direction, as people begin to argue "No, no it's not! How could you possibly think that, dummy??"

I guess it isn't at the moment, but I did read through at least 3 pages at once since I left from last night so I didn't have a good sense of progression. But hey, being the Ridley thread, then naturally its supposed to be nasty.

 

[The King of Skulls]

I'm pretty neutral on Ridley's actual chance of getting in, but in a way, each disconfirmed character makes me relieved that he may make it. Not to the extent of mocking others, but if, say, Chrom didn't make it. That would be a potentially great character smashed in the egg stage, which may mean an equally great character makes it.

Of course, it probably doesn't work that way, but whatever lets me sleep at night.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

I find it highly unlikely the Ridley we saw was playable. Could we get a different Ridley as playable? Maybe. Was it the one in the Direct? Probably not.

Well, we had Meta Knight, who had essentially perfect recovery, strong and high priority normals and, like, two or three frame kill moves, and he worked out fine, right? I mean, they balanced him out by being light, right?

All kidding aside, I can see Ridley having strong recovery and great air game, but I don't see him being HEAVY. Not in the same sense as, say, Bowser, Ganondorf or D3. I'd imagine something like Ridley isn't particularly heavy, 'cause he has to be light enough to fly with the kind of agility he does in a lot of his games. I'd say, at his heaviest, Ridley might be about around Mario/Luigi weight (as far as Smash is concerned for KO purposes, anyway). Couple that with slow attacks on the ground and what I'd imagine is a Bowser-sized hitbox, and he's at least WAY more balanced right out the gate than Meta Knight.

So then a lot of the counter to Ridley is a solid range game, who has the ability to keep him grounded, or easily punish him when he eventually has to touch the ground.

 

[Shalashaska]

I guess it isn't at the moment, but I did read through at least 3 pages at once since I left from last night so I didn't have a good sense of progression. But hey, being the Ridley thread, then naturally its supposed to be nasty.

No, no it's not! How could you possibly think that, dummy??
he said jokingly

 

[SureNsync]

Did anyone else noticed that Sakurai is being rather cruel to the Metroid fan base? the way how he just disconfirmed Dark Samus, a villain with move set potential, is a double slap. Ridley has to be playable at this point. Its been 3 games.

 

[Pacack]

I just finished reading the Metroid Manga and I have to ask...


Why haven't they made this into a game yet?


The manga does a ton of things better than any of the games ever did.

Samus was a relatable and understandable character that had her share of flaws while still being genuinely admirable and cool. This Samus is strong, passionate, bold, and insubordinate; and I like it. A lot.

Ridley is a freaking amazing villain. I can't stress this enough. Going by this manga, Ridley has the best personality of any Nintendo villain. He's bloodthirsty, cunning, cruel, evil, and genuinely threatening. And he actually has his own twisted reasons for it. He sees other species as inferior beings and wants to wipe them out. He mocks their lack of built in defences like his claws and tells them how utterly pathetic he thinks they are when he can. This contrasts the viewpoint of the Chozo, who view all intelligent life as equally valuable. Seriously, I'm not spoiling more, because you need to read it. Now.

And I loved the thinly-veiled allegories. When Samus first meets Old Bird, a Chozo, she's a little scared of him. He tells her not to be scared and that, while they're different on the outside, they have the same "heart" on the inside. Samus befriends Old Bird despite their differences and starts calling him things like "Grampa". When she meets Ridley, she is put off by his appearance, but puts that aside and says "E-even if you look different, you're not scary. I'm perfectly fine. W-we can still be friends!" (He then proceeds to try and kill her, but that's not the point.)

 

[OblivionWolf]

My problem with the concept of him never touching the ground seems to me like he wouldn't be playing by the rules of Smash. I mean that might just be me, and you can try to tell me it's his playstyle. But it doesn't make sense to me if he's always flying.

That would essentially give him a ridiculously overpowered recovery. So if you follow Sakurai Logic of "He'd be slow" that would likely mean that:

1) He's strong
2) Would be Heavy

So if he's strong, heavy, and then has an unlimited recovery, he'd be the most overpowered character in Smash. Hence, why I don't believe he has an unlimited flying thing. That would basically break the rules of Smash. Yes, I DO think this hurts him more, because there is no freaking way that SHOULD happen. Giving him unlimited flying would be incredibly overpowered.

What about characters who can hardly jump? Ganondorf? Well, he's screwed. There's no way he could get up to Ridley.

My stance on this, is that the Ridley we saw in the Direct is a stage hazard boss thing on Pyrosphere. The fact that he never touches the ground simply convinces me that he's meant to be a NPC, simply because the mere concept of him always flying doesn't make any sense in terms of how Smash Bros operates.

I find it highly unlikely the Ridley we saw was playable. Could we get a different Ridley as playable? Maybe. Was it the one in the Direct? Probably not.

http://gfycat.com/SentimentalBronzeIndianrhinoceros#

C'mon now there is a big difference between flying and hovering....You talk as if Ridley was zipping through the air and flying circles around the stage and doing loop de loops....

All I seen in that direct was an extended Peach hover looking ability. There are ways to balance these things.

http://youtu.be/rgg6qhD3Fok?t=33s

 

[AustarusIV]

Did anyone else noticed that Sakurai is being rather cruel to the Metroid fan base? the way how he just disconfirmed Dark Samus, a villain with move set potential, is a double slap. Ridley has to be playable at this point. Its been 3 games.

Pretty much. When you have someone who's trying to force a fanbase into accepting and loving a "newcomer" who's really just a sexier version of an existing character, then you know that that person doesn't really care about the franchise.

 

[Snagrio]

Did anyone else noticed that Sakurai is being rather cruel to the Metroid fan base? the way how he just disconfirmed Dark Samus, a villain with move set potential, is a double slap. Ridley has to be playable at this point. Its been 3 games.

My fear is that he thinks Zamus as separate character is enough for the Metroid reps. What really irks me about that potential outcome is one, Zamus was already in Brawl so she's not even a new addition, and two, she and regular Samus are the exact same person. You can't even use the argument with the multiple Links like different ages or incarnations, the two Metroid reps we got are one and the same just with different ascetics and playstyles.

With Dark Samus out of the picture, Ridley is our last hope.

 

[FreeFallUp]

I remember "he never, ever walks" was brought up by absolutist detractors pre-Brawl. People had to consistently link his Omega Ridley fight video because people legitimately started to believe he never, ever touched the ground, ever.

This is especially odd considering all Sakurai/the dev team would need to do to make Ridley "always flying" is making him hover slightly above the ground. After all, there already is a character that does just that *coughRosalinacoughcough*

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Why do people think Sakurai considers Zamus a newcomer to Sm4sh?

I mean, really? The only difference I see is that she takes up her own roster space and has an improved recovery. Bam, new character.

It's not like the man is forcing people to accept Shiek as a brand new character because she's a ninja-ier Zelda.

Besides, Zamus at least has more things differentiating her from Dr. Mario. It's not like Sakurai literally reskinned Samus to be sexier and slapped on a cannon like she was Justin Bailey.

 

[FreeFallUp]

Why do people think Sakurai considers Zamus a newcomer to Sm4sh?

I mean, really? The only difference I see is that she takes up her own roster space and has an improved recovery. Bam, new character.

It's not like the man is forcing people to accept Shiek as a brand new character because she's a ninja-ier Zelda.

Besides, Zamus at least has more things differentiating her from Dr. Mario. It's not like Sakurai literally reskinned Samus to be sexier and slapped on a cannon like she was Justin Bailey.

This may have more to do with the idea that Sakurai may consider only so many character spots per franchise, with an obvious imbalance in which franchise gets more. If this is the case and Sakurai limits Metroid's spot to, say, two characters, then him considering Zamus a second character spot for Metroid completely kills any chances of Ridley becoming playable. Of course, Sakurai likely decided who would get what spots at the beginning of development, but the idea is still...scary, for lack of a better word, to some people.

 

[Pacack]

Besides, Zamus at least has more things differentiating her from Dr. Mario. It's not like Sakurai literally reskinned Samus to be sexier and slapped on a cannon like she was Justin Bailey.

Is it wrong as a Samus player that I would've preferred this?

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Is it wrong as a Samus player that I would've preferred this?

Probably. Then the idea that Zero Suit Samus was put in purely for titillation and fanservice would have merit if she was just a faster Samus clone.

But that's just me.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Oh is nobody sure about ridley falling off the platform after jumping and air grabbing pikachu.

I mean the platform shadows were not shown.

And pikachu probably got up to the platform before ridley grabbed pikachu.

 

[SchAlternate]

My problem with the concept of him never touching the ground seems to me like he wouldn't be playing by the rules of Smash. I mean that might just be me, and you can try to tell me it's his playstyle. But it doesn't make sense to me if he's always flying.

That would essentially give him a ridiculously overpowered recovery. So if you follow Sakurai Logic of "He'd be slow" that would likely mean that:

1) He's strong
2) Would be Heavy

So if he's strong, heavy, and then has an unlimited recovery, he'd be the most overpowered character in Smash. Hence, why I don't believe he has an unlimited flying thing. That would basically break the rules of Smash. Yes, I DO think this hurts him more, because there is no freaking way that SHOULD happen. Giving him unlimited flying would be incredibly overpowered.

What about characters who can hardly jump? Ganondorf? Well, he's screwed. There's no way he could get up to Ridley.

My stance on this, is that the Ridley we saw in the Direct is a stage hazard boss thing on Pyrosphere. The fact that he never touches the ground simply convinces me that he's meant to be a NPC, simply because the mere concept of him always flying doesn't make any sense in terms of how Smash Bros operates.

I find it highly unlikely the Ridley we saw was playable. Could we get a different Ridley as playable? Maybe. Was it the one in the Direct? Probably not.

Well, a possible way to avoid said mechanic from being OP would be to give a limited flight radius; if Ridley exits said radius, he'll stop flying. Though he may still be able to use any remaining jumps, judging how it seems he's jumping at the very end of the clip.

Also, slow =/= heavy. Zelda is slow as molases and light as a feather, the same applying to Mewtwo or Roy (I think he was pretty slow, I do know he was lighter than Marth). Plus, Ridley's build don't suggest it being so heavy anyway. Of course, this being Other M Ridley may suggest he's slightly heavier than classic Ridley, but I can't imagine him being heavier than Ganondorf.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

It's already pretty established that this is the regular version of Pyrosphere. But just in case people still think its the FD version...

Look at the lights:

If this has already been covered, apologies.

 

[Pacack]

Probably. Then the idea that Zero Suit Samus was put in purely for titillation and fanservice would have merit if she was just a faster Samus clone.

But that's just me.

Like, I wouldn't even care about the fanservice. Having a different Samus would've been the interesting part for me. Brawl's Samus was just done so poorly.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

It's already pretty established that this is the regular version of Pyrosphere. But just in case people still think its the FD version...

Look at the lights:
View attachment 14375
If this has already been covered, apologies.

Well to go simplier its the ember particles thats unmaksed the stage as the normal version.

Thats why he could have ben on the platform, clearly above thr ground because of pikachu in his foot.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

So I've been thinking. I need proof of wording from the man himself, but I've been thinking.

Have Kotake and Koume officially been stated to be, quote, "bosses" of Gerudo Valley? Not "stage hazards", not "trouble", but "bosses"?

If so, taking what Sakurai has said at face value, Ridley is the first ever boss (NOT Stage Hazard) in Smash Bros to have platforms during his boss battle.

And I know precedence means jack, but its some food for thought.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

It's already pretty established that this is the regular version of Pyrosphere. But just in case people still think its the FD version...

Look at the lights:
View attachment 14375
If this has already been covered, apologies.

So the lights are on in the normal version but not the FD one?

Thinking about, I feel they are actually alarm sirens, and will go off when Rdley comes onto the stage.

Not saying this hurts his chances, I'm just saying that if he is a stage hazard/boss (he could be a character too), this would be a nice touch.

 

[False Sense]

So the lights are on in the normal version but not the FD one?

Thinking about, I feel they are actually alarm sirens, and will go off when Rdley comes onto the stage.

Not saying this hurts his chances, I'm just saying that if he is a stage hazard/boss (he could be a character too), this would be a nice touch.

They could also be warning sirens for lava, something that also disappears on the Final Destination version of the stage.

 

[PlasticBag]

Or lights you can switch on.

 

[majora_787]

@ Pacack : I am pretty sure they wouldn't make a Metroid game based off the manga NOW after the response to a game that delved at all into Samus' character or backstory as a priority. People basically want to explore an open-ended alien world, do cool Metroid stuff, and do completion runs. I'm not disagreeing with those priorities myself, but I usually prefer games like the Prime Trilogy that provide some level of universe expansion if nothing else.

I dunno. I just doubt it's going to happen now and we'll probably get a Prime 4 or some other kind of thing instead.