Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Starcutter]

Charizard, Charizard, Charizard. Oh, that Charizard...
I'll have you know that I watched the hell out of the anime as a kid and most of the time Ash's Charizard would appear as a tall pokemon, maybe roughly the height of a grizzly bear. Not 15 feet tall like what you're thinking. However, the pokedex entry does state 5'7". Thus, it wasn't actually a stretch to make Charizard the height he is in Brawl. He's still fairly tall in Brawl- pretty close relative to the anime. As are all of the other characters in height and shape, pretty close. Olimar appears large enough to the user in the Pikmin series, and thus there already exists a character model complete with dimensions to use as a template in Brawl. It's less of a stretch to rescale a character to become larger than it is to have them become significantly smaller.

he was saying charizard moved from being a pokeball character to an actual character, so why can't ridley switch from boss to character.

that was his point.

 

[Dark Phazon]

he was saying charizard moved from being a pokeball character to an actual character, so why can't ridley switch from boss to character.

that was his point.

Because Ridley for some reason doesnt get the same options as other chars for unspecified reasons....

 

[M15t3R E]

What do you guys mean by "pokeball pokemon" when you say Charizard was one?
I quote from bulbapedia- size discrepancies in the pokemon anime: "Charizard are usually 5'7" (1.75m) tall, but Ash's Charizard is taller than that, at about 7'00 (2.10m) tall. Oddly enough, it is shown in Charizard's Burning Ambition that Ash's Charizard is rather small when compared with the Charizard living in Charicific Valley. Also, in Grating Spaces, a Charizard was shown to be as tall as an Aggron, 6'11" (2.10 m)."
As you can see, pokemon have a great deal of wiggle room. So the Charizard argument is invalidated.

 

[Starcutter]

What do you guys mean by "pokeball pokemon" when you say Charizard was one?

the pokemon that come out of the pokeball item.

 

[BKupa666]

You know, as catchy a platitude as 'TOO BIG' is, I wonder whether the collective Ridley hatebase would be viewed as anything more than a laughable stain on the speculation scene if they rallied behind the much more reasonable stance of him requiring the developers' 'best efforts' to implement instead.

 

[Phaazoid]

Because Ridley for some reason doesnt get the same options as other chars for unspecified reasons....

Dude I friggen made the original Charizard for brawl thread got the **** flamed outta me and then 6 months later went back and quoted every single hater and laughed m ass off
Also I meant to quote who you were quoting but too lazy to find it


Also guys, you may have lost me D: If Destiny doesn't come to the PC Sony has my balls in a death grip and PS4 will be my next gen console. (but I already have a 3ds so I'll get at least one copy of sm4sh regardless)

What do you guys mean by "pokeball pokemon" when you say Charizard was one?
I quote from bulbapedia- size discrepancies in the pokemon anime: "Charizard are usually 5'7" (1.75m) tall, but Ash's Charizard is taller than that, at about 7'00 (2.10m) tall. Oddly enough, it is shown in Charizard's Burning Ambition that Ash's Charizard is rather small when compared with the Charizard living in Charicific Valley. Also, in Grating Spaces, a Charizard was shown to be as tall as an Aggron, 6'11" (2.10 m)."
As you can see, pokemon have a great deal of wiggle room. So the Charizard argument is invalidated.

http://bulbapedia.bulbagarden.net/wiki/Charizard_(Pokémon)

Charizard = 5.5 feet. You only gotta use the pokadex brah outliers don't matter. That's what they'd go off of.

Just to mind**** all of you, I've pulled this from the metroid data base

• There is no explanation on how he is able to fly in an environment which does not contain air or gas, a necessary medium for any creature with wings to take flight; he is nevertheless seen flapping his wings. In the case of Meta Ridley, his wings, which seem to be energy-based, might have some significance to this.

Ridley flies in outer space. he already does the impossible. We know he's too big but HE CAN FLY IN SPACE DEAL WITH IT

 

[ChozoBoy]

Can't tell if troll or not, but if you aren't, you are a serious idiot.

If you aren't a troll, here you go Ridley has gone from being barely bigger than Samus to four times her size. And no, Sakurai scales everything, and he does what he wants. No one cares about size or realism in smash. This isn't no super realistic Madden game; this is freaking a game where people DOUBLE JUMP (which is physically impossible), angels battle fire magic-using plumbers battling space animals with robotic legs fighting blue talking hedgehogs.

Also, Olimar is one inch tall. And yet, he's in Smash.

Don't use idiot realism here. To use it shows stupidity.[/collapse]

It seems you've glazed over a bit when reading. I don't know how I could have made the sentence regarding intraseries character scales any more apparent without highlighting and underlining it in caps. Do you need a glitter GIF in order to notice key points or should I just expect you to skip them?

Like what.

Here's an unrelated example... The Pokemon are not scaled proportionately to each other, based on their Pokedex entries.

This problem isn't exclusive to the game. We've all seen it in the show before. That's because Pokemon are considered icons moreso than characters to the Pokemon Company, who Sakurai said regarding Brawl to have been the most trouble to work with. They need Pikachu to be screen-legible and immediately identifiable, stats from the original game be damned. This is an iffy marketing solution that causes weirdness on the occassions that the characters are scaled correctly intraseries. (Forget canons, think of them as icons here.)

I'm sure most of you have heard about the bad guy scale arguments that went into Wreck-It Ralph, and that's sort of what I'm talking about here.

 

[Deleted member]

What do you guys mean by "pokeball pokemon" when you say Charizard was one?
I quote from bulbapedia- size discrepancies in the pokemon anime: "Charizard are usually 5'7" (1.75m) tall, but Ash's Charizard is taller than that, at about 7'00 (2.10m) tall. Oddly enough, it is shown in Charizard's Burning Ambition that Ash's Charizard is rather small when compared with the Charizard living in Charicific Valley. Also, in Grating Spaces, a Charizard was shown to be as tall as an Aggron, 6'11" (2.10 m)."
As you can see, pokemon have a great deal of wiggle room. So the Charizard argument is invalidated.

Still doesn't change the point that Charizard is still effing big compared to the little Pikachu. Even the smallest Charizard is absolutely massive compared to a Pikachu in any continuity.
It's as I said multiple times before, how'd we get from this:

to this:

Ridley's size argument in comparison to Samus does not work, unless there is such a thing as a Steroidchu or Midgetzard.

 

[Oasis_S]

All I am here to do is to be the harbinger of unfortunate truths.

Honestly, I thought you were being satirical.

 

[Deleted member]

Bringing up things like "Olimar is normally tiny" doesn't help anything... it's completely irrelevant.

Unless units of measurement are somehow different in different series (i.e. a "Mario Inch" is not the same as a "Kirby Inch"), then pretty much, the "as small as a US quarter" Olimar really is ****ing tiny, even compared to the "eight inches tall" Kirby.

 

[ChronoBound]

A lot of Ridley haters are coming out of the woodwork. I feel almost as though these clowns are basically like the last round of enemies you face in a game, like you know, the battle in which you face them is not difficult at all and at that point you basically know you are done with the game, but certainly don't tell that to the clowns.

 

[Oasis_S]

but certainly don't tell that to the clowns.

CLOWNS YOU ARE CLOWNS.

 

[M15t3R E]

Still doesn't change the point that Charizard is still effing big compared to the little Pikachu. Even the smallest Charizard is absolutely massive compared to a Pikachu in any continuity.
It's as I said multiple times before, how'd we get from this:

to this:

Ridley's size argument in comparison to Samus does not work, unless there is such a thing as a Steroidchu or Midgetzard.

I've already explained this. Pokemon can be scaled differently. They inherently have that built-in luxury certain video game icons like Ridley do not. Face it- it would just be asinine to have to resize him to that extent AND go back on their and Metroid's previous designs for Ridley in the Metroid series and Brawl Boss Battles.

 

[BKupa666]

A lot of Ridley haters are coming out of the woodwork. I feel almost as though these clowns are basically like the last round of enemies you face in a game, like you know, the battle in which you face them is not difficult at all and at that point you basically know you are done with the game, but certainly don't tell that to the clowns.

Spoiler

 

[Oasis_S]

I've already explained this. Pokemon can be scaled differently. They inherently have that built-in luxury certain video game icons like Ridley do not. Face it- it would just be asinine to have to resize him to that extent AND go back on their and Metroid's previous designs for Ridley in the Metroid series and Brawl Boss Battles.

You think people care but they really just don't.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

 

[M15t3R E]

You think people care but they really just don't.

Exactly, Ridley is a much more sensible and logical choice as a boss battle, which is why he is TWO boss battles in Brawl. The SSB team have always recognized this. It's highly unlikely they'll reconsider now. People need to start thinking like a video game developer rather than a fan boy/girl.

 

[ChronoBound]

The thing is that Ridley does not even have to be resized that much. Look at Donkey Kong, he is actually the tallest character in the game, but you wouldn't know it because he is hunched over. Ridley in at least nearly all of his 2D appearances (except NES Metroid) has his limbs tucked together, and if he were in Smash Bros. in a similar manner, he could still be like twice the size of Samus yet still "big".

In reality, most Ridley (and most Smash Bros. fans) just want Ridley in. We don't care about the size at all. Really, the Ridley naysayers are just an extremely vocal minority that raises their voice and screams it at the top of their lungs any chance they get.

 

[Oasis_S]

Exactly, Ridley is a much more sensible and logical choice as a boss battle, which is why he is TWO boss battles in Brawl. The SSB team have always recognized this. It's highly unlikely they'll reconsider now. People need to start thinking like a video game developer rather than a fan boy/girl.

Right, video game developers care immensely about trivial canon and circumstantial whatsits.

 

[Deleted member]

I've already explained this. Pokemon can be scaled differently. They inherently have that built-in luxury certain video game icons like Ridley do not. Face it- it would just be asinine to have to resize him to that extent AND go back on their and Metroid's previous designs for Ridley in the Metroid series and Brawl Boss Battles.

So, it's completely feasible for Pokémon of established size (one tiny, one huge) to be closer together in comparison just because "lul the animoo has dirfent sizes GUHYUK", yet a character of inconsistent size within a differing series can't be scaled down?

I don't know who failed worse today, Microsoft, or you.

 

[Johnknight1]

If Ridley is revealed in the trailer tomorrow, I will shave my head.

Not kidding.

To hell with the haters

If you use the "too big" argument, you should be banned.

And yes, I remember my good ole pal samusrules running that thread and getting crapped on by people, so he's totally being truthful, and he knows more than y'all n00berinos.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Didn't know that canon sizes mattered.....oh wait.

 

[M15t3R E]

Right, video game developers care immensely about trivial canon and circumstantial whatsits.

They do, actually.

So, it's completely feasible for Pokémon of established size (one tiny, one huge) to be closer together in comparison just because "lul the animoo has dirfent sizes GUHYUK", yet a character of inconsistent size within a differing series can't be scaled down?

I don't know who failed worse today, Microsoft, or you.

These "established sizes" are subject to great change, just like in a human being. The fact of the matter is, Charizard is not small in Brawl. Pikachu is large. Pikachu had to be scaled up to be easily visible. Olimar is also in that boat. This is much more feasible than significantly scaling down and thus nerfing an immensely powerful creature whose physical size is part of its intimidation factor, to the point of great dissimilarity with its actual form in its original series.
Yes, Microsoft failed all of us.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

Pikachu had to be scaled up to be easily visible. Olimar is also in that boat. This is much more feasible than significantly scaling down and thus nerfing an immensely powerful creature whose physical size is part of its intimidation factor, to the point of great dissimilarity with its actual form in its original series.

 

[Kirbunny431]

So, it's completely feasible for Pokémon of established size (one tiny, one huge) to be closer together in comparison just because "lul the animoo has dirfent sizes GUHYUK", yet a character of inconsistent size within a differing series can't be scaled down?

I don't know who failed worse today, Microsoft, or you.

You decimated me back in the Dr. Mario thread a long time ago, but I've completely forgotten that in favor of watching you trash these guys.

 

[Oasis_S]

This is much more feasible than significantly scaling down and thus nerfing an immensely powerful creature whose physical size is part of its intimidation factor, to the point of great dissimilarity with its actual form in its original series.

I just can't get over how people actually think this is important.

I mean, cool I guess for putting Ridley on a pedestal? You're making bottom-tier Captain Ganondorf slipping on a banana peel over there feeling pretty jealous.

 

[Johnknight1]

There are no established sizes in smash you freaking idiot, now GTFO, and go back to your GameFAQs or NSider. Sakurai doesn't give a crap about establishment.

I'm sure next you're gonna give us a lecture that double jumps are realistic, and that a 2 centimeter man fighting a 20 story giant turtle demon is realistic like the **** you are.

I don't know who failed worse today, Microsoft, or you.

Probably this little Brawl n00b.

 

[M15t3R E]

There are no established sizes in smash you freaking idiot, now GTFO, and go back to your GameFAQs or NSider. Sakurai doesn't give a crap about establishment.

I agree, as a general statement about Sakurai. Though, he apparently does care about Ridley's portrayal being accurate. All one has to do is replay either of the two Ridley boss battles in Brawl. That is largely why I'm doubtful.

You decimated me back in the Dr. Mario thread a long time ago, but I've completely forgotten that in favor of watching you trash these guys.

You spoke too soon, my friend. Scroll up.
I can't wait until E3 now, more than ever.

 

[Banjodorf]

Alright Ridley loyals. In less than 10 hours, we could very possibly be witnessing a decisive moment.

ARE YOUR BODIES READY?

Also, no one is ever a considerate person when they come in and say "I'm just here to be the bearerer of unfortunate truths". Seriously, nothing comes out of that statement except "I am a pretentious douchebag."

Now let's stop this before the Ridley thread gets closed for the old reasons, and just before our big moment too.

 

[Kirbunny431]

You spoke too soon, my friend. Scroll up.
I can't wait until E3 now, more than ever.

...Nah, he's still winning.

 

[Deleted member]

This just in: scaling up something tiny to be decent size is feasible while scaling down something large to be decent size is completely unfeasible!
Insane troll logic for the win.

 

[Johnknight1]

You spoke too soon, my friend. Scroll up.
I can't wait until E3 now, more than ever.

Yes, when I get to shave my head for Ridley, and you get to go home to GameFAQs like a idiot.

You bets run home to your momma little Brawl n00b, because when you face a CHAMP like ME, WE DON'T HOLD BACK!!!

I float like a helicopter and sting like a nuke, and once you hear what I do to your momma, it will make you wanna puke.

 

[ChronoBound]

This is much more feasible than significantly scaling down and thus nerfing an immensely powerful creature whose physical size is part of its intimidation factor, to the point of great dissimilarity with its actual form in its original series.

Coming from someone that actually played Super Metroid back when it was originally released, size was never a part of what made Ridley intimidating. That was more the realm of Kraid and possibly Mother Brain's second form.

I don't think I have seen really anyone else aside from the Ridley detractors say size is what makes Ridley intimidating. I would sure as hell be intimidated by Ridley even if he were human sized, and I am sure everyone else here would.

 

[Kirbunny431]

Yes, when I get to shave my head for Ridley, and you get to go home to GameFAQs like a idiot.

You bets run home to your momma little Brawl n00b, because when you face a CHAMP like ME, WE DON'T HOLD BACK!!!

I float like a helicopter and sting like a nuke, and once you hear what I do to your momma, it will make you wanna puke.

And this is where things always start to get weird on Smashboards.

 

[LaniusShrike]

Unless units of measurement are somehow different in different series (i.e. a "Mario Inch" is not the same as a "Kirby Inch"), then pretty much, the "as small as a US quarter" Olimar really is ****ing tiny, even compared to the "eight inches tall" Kirby.

I think the take home is "If you bought the character as an action figure, how big would they be?" not "if the characters teleported to another character's universe, how big would they be?"

In that scale, which is the Smash Bros. scale, Olimar and Kirby are about the same... and, yeah, I'd expect Ridley to be large but not "too big". The Smash developers clearly have a license to change things to make them fit, and Ridley is clearly could be made playable.

But I still think we're too hard on "too big" people. A lot of them are just Metroid fans who think that Ridley is best portrayed as big and scary and bosslike as possible... there's nothing wrong with fellow fans preferring their favorite character depicted differently. They want and like him when he's too big... and I think we can all agree that a boss Ridley is still cool.

But yeah I'll be super annoyed if he's not playable.

 

[Robert of Normandy]

I don't think I have seen really anyone else aside from the Ridley detractors say size is what makes Ridley intimidating. I would sure as hell be intimidated by Ridley even if he were human sized, and I am sure everyone else here would.

Yup. Dragons are scary/awesome no matter how big they are. Especially space dragons.

 

[M15t3R E]

This just in: scaling up something tiny to be decent size is feasible while scaling down something large to be decent size is completely unfeasible!
Insane troll logic for the win.

It's logical, and I already explained why. Since you didn't bother to read my post, perhaps you'll read this commenter's post who reiterated my point:

But I still think we're too hard on "too big" people. A lot of them are just Metroid fans who think that Ridley is best portrayed as big and scary and bosslike as possible... there's nothing wrong with fellow fans preferring their favorite character depicted differently. They want and like him when he's too big... and I think we can all agree that a boss Ridley is still cool.

But yeah I'll be super annoyed if he's not playable.

Yes, when I get to shave my head for Ridley, and you get to go home to GameFAQs like a idiot.

You bets run home to your momma little Brawl n00b, because when you face a CHAMP like ME, WE DON'T HOLD BACK!!!

I float like a helicopter and sting like a nuke, and once you hear what I do to your momma, it will make you wanna puke.

You sound like a Team Rocket member with tourette syndrome. Begone, simpleton.

 

[ChronoBound]

This just in: scaling up something tiny to be decent size is feasible while scaling down something large to be decent size is completely unfeasible!
Insane troll logic for the win.

They are trolls from GameFAQs. Of course they are difficult to understand.

Though I suppose us scaling down to understand their logic is more difficult than them scaling up to understand our arguments.

 

[ssbHex]

Hey guys, remember when Ridley was confirmed for Smash 4?

OH WAIT... that's tomorrow.

GET HYPED

 

[Johnknight1]

I agree, as a general statement about Sakurai. Though, he apparently does care about Ridley's portrayal being accurate. All one has to do is replay either of the two Ridley boss battles in Brawl. That is largely why I'm doubtful.

You mean where he was the smallest bosses and barely bigger than Brawl=???

Also, you seem to have a selective memory, because I don't remember that too well, seeing as how I don't play that silly casual game. No, I play A MAN'S GAME IN MELEE, and in THAT GAME, he's barely bigger than Samus.

So you can go back to your kiddie pool on the Brawl Boards, and us MEN OF MELEE will wreck you with our superior MELEE LOGIC, MELEE TECHNIQUES, AND MELEE GAMEPLAY!!!!

Wavedashing > Random Trippling
Dash Dancing > Planking
Quadruple Knee Kills > Stalling