Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[AustarusIV]

Custom robo is a favorite of mine. Unfortunately, the fan base is rather small, and the games old. Smash doesn't have enough mechs. LIKE META RIDLEY WHAT

More on topic, this game is totally not make or break for Ridley. Remember, just last smash, Sakurai wrote off the idea of villager because he wasn't a fighter, mii's because they didn't seem right, ect?

A lot can change in 10 years.

Right. Sakurai seems to be focusing more on adding new franchises to this installment, which is almost as if he's trying to make it a sequel to 64 (which was about introducing as many franchises as possible). Sakurai's never said that Ridley could never ever work, he admitted that his team could make him playable if they tried hard enough.

Perhaps next time around, he'll focus on the villains.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Yes.

That said, not every franchise needs a character to be well represented. -coughRhythmHeavencough-

An I allowed to be a Ridley supporter AND like the idea of a Rhythm Heaven rep?

 

[Phaazoid]

Also I suppose I think the villain of one of the Nintendo's biggest franchises deserves more representation than the likes of Yellow Devil and Dark Emperor.

I agree with this sentiment, I think one of the better arguments for Ridley's inclusion is that he really is on par with the likes of Bowser and Ganondorf.

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

I might as well go into more detail for the topic I brought up. For me it all comes down to what the character works best as.

Let's say Isaac is still an Assist Trophy. Yes, I'd be sad. I see tons of potential in him as a fighter. He can bring a good mix of "magic" (Psyenergy) and swords to the roster. Just using Move to push fighters around isn't exactly something I'd be excited for.

A lot of people support Skull Kid. Now, I wouldn't exactly want him as a fighter. As an Assist Trophy, he'd be perfect. Bring the moon down on the arena and demolish everything. On the topic of Skull Kid though, his Assist Trophy is very underwhelming and I was disappointed, so I understand the concerns of Ridley being a boss.

Though, in my opinion, Ridley does make for a great boss. Make him tower over the other fighters. Have him fly around, pick up one of the players and dunk them into the lava. Make him as deadly and terrifying as possible. It's fitting for him. Now, I'm sure there's people who can think of much better examples here, but this is just to give you the general idea.

While I do admit Ridley as a fighter would be pretty cool, I just him more suited for the role of a boss. Will I be disappointed if he's a fighter? No, I'm sure he'd be great to play as too.

That is my stance on him.

 

[majora_787]

Also I suppose I think the villain of one of Nintendo's biggest franchises deserves more representation than the likes of Yellow Devil and Dark Emperor.

"Ridley doesn't DESERVE to be playable. Instead we should have a Waddle Dee, a third Mother character, Isaac, Shadow the Hedgehog, and Master Chief with Goku's hair. Buuuuuuhhhhhh."

The internet sure is a special place.

EDIT: Seriously. Since when does being a boss *NOT* fit Bowser? Or Ganon? Ridley being a boss is not some sacred ground that literally can never be tread on. He is just as much of a "boss character" as Bowser or Ganon are, and BOTH of the former were resized to a smaller size to be playable where they became dangerous and imposing powerhouses. ...Well not Ganondorf. At all, actually. But he learned his moves from Captain Falcon.

And the biggest issue here is, if the Ridley we've seen is a boss, it will be a boss appearance that will damage his fabricated "exclusive must-be-boss image" really badly. Much worse than being playable ever could.

 

[UltimateWario]

An I allowed to be a Ridley supporter AND like the idea of a Rhythm Heaven rep?

I...guess?

I'm not the King of Opinions, you're allowed to have your own.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I...guess?

I'm not the King of Opinions, you're allowed to have your own.

I just don't think it's a popular opinion around here..... for future reference, who IS the king of opinions?

 

[UltimateWario]

I just don't think it's a popular opinion around here..... for future reference, who IS the king of opinions?

Bender.

 

[Sigran101]

Right. Sakurai seems to be focusing more on adding new franchises to this installment, which is almost as if he's trying to make it a sequel to 64 (which was about introducing as many franchises as possible). Sakurai's never said that Ridley could never ever work, he admitted that his team could make him playable if they tried hard enough.

Perhaps next time around, he'll focus on the villains.

That's assuming there is a next time. I'm worried there might not be a smash bros. 6. (I should clarify- Sakurai stated that he considered super smash bros for 3ds for wiiu to be smash bros. 4 and smash bros. 5, so I call the next one smash bros. 6.)

 

[Spazzy_D]

@ Phaazoid is it okay to have Ridley as your number one most wanted character and still want a Rhythm Heaven rep? What if the rep isn't the Chorus Men?

Also, pretty sure if Ridley ends up being a hazard he will be larger then what we are estimating. The whole boss thing was really sketchy.

 

[TheWozny]

I feel like a good down-air for Riddles would be him spiking his tail quick, resulting in a meteor effect.

 

[majora_787]

There's no reason to worry about if there will be a next Smash Bros. The only concern is if Sakurai would be the one directing it. Which he may not. As late as Brawl Nintendo was willing to find someone else to make the game if they had to. The fact of the matter is, they will keep the series going because it makes them a good amount of money, with or without the guy.

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

is it okay to have Ridley as your number one most wanted character and still want a Rhythm Heaven rep? What if the rep isn't chorus kids?

Instead of asking people if it's OK to support them, why not just support them?

 

[Phaazoid]

I might as well go into more detail for the topic I brought up. For me it all comes down to what the character works best as.

Let's say Isaac is still an Assist Trophy. Yes, I'd be sad. I see tons of potential in him as a fighter. He can bring a good mix of "magic" (Psyenergy) and swords to the roster. Just using Move to push fighters around isn't exactly something I'd be excited for.

A lot of people support Skull Kid. Now, I wouldn't exactly want him as a fighter. As an Assist Trophy, he'd be perfect. Bring the moon down on the arena and demolish everything.

On the topic of Skull Kid though, his Assist Trophy is very underwhelming and I was disappointed, so I understand the concerns of Ridley being a boss.

Though, in my opinion, Ridley does make for a great boss. Make him tower over the other fighters. Have him fly around, pick up one of the players and dunk them into the lava. Make him as deadly and terrifying as possible. It's fitting for him. Now, I'm sure there's people who can think of much better examples here, but this is just to give you the general idea.

While I do admit Ridley as a fighter would be pretty cool, I just him more suited for the role of a boss. Will I be disappointed if he's a fighter? No, I'm sure he'd be great to play as too.

That is my stance on him.

You bring some fair points in. I can see where you're coming from. If Ridley was both a boss and playable, I'd be happy with Ridley being a boss. If I didn't care about Ridley's playable status, and he was a very well done boss, I would be happy too.

But, think about it. Bowser, in the mario game with the most playable characters (mario party) is never playable, he's always a boss. Even in the new mario party 10, where you control him, you control him as a boss. Yet he's so central to the mario series that he was incorporated in as playable.

I guess I'm going to go into the deserving a spot argument

Ridley, sure, has his main appearances as a large, menacing boss. But he's also appeared in much more reasonable sizes (melee opening). He's also just as central to Samus as bowser is to mario. And Metroid really only has one character representing the series right now (same person, two slots). Around since smash 64, and only one rep? This series isn't dead, like Fzero, even Mother has more characters. Metroid should have another rep, and Ridley is definitely the most deserving character to fill that slot.

 

[Spazzy_D]

Instead of asking people if it's OK to support them, why not just support them?

Because I NEED VALIDATION!

Also I'm bored at work.

 

[TheWozny]

There's no reason to worry about if there will be a next Smash Bros. The only concern is if Sakurai would be the one directing it. Which he may not. As late as Brawl Nintendo was willing to find someone else to make the game if they had to. The fact of the matter is, they will keep the series going because it makes them a good amount of money, with or without the guy.

Why not? I would be so sad to see him go...

 

[AustarusIV]

Nintendo will keep making Smash games even after Sakurai's dead (if the company is still around that time). It's a huge money maker for them and it would be foolish to stop at this rate.

 

[Phaazoid]

@ Phaazoid is it okay to have Ridley as your number one most wanted character and still want a Rhythm Heaven rep? What if the rep isn't the Chorus Men?

Also, pretty sure if Ridley ends up being a hazard he will be larger then what we are estimating. The whole boss thing was really sketchy.

As much as I'm honored that you consider me the king of opinions, I'm not nearly humble enough to say no, so I'll take the roll. If anyone wants an opinion, I'll have to validate it first, from now on.

My first rule is that as long as Ridley is your most number one wanted character of all time, you get to choose who your second most wanted character is.

 

[BluePikmin11]

Yes.

That said, not every franchise needs a character to be well represented. -coughRhythmHeavencough-

Ahh.. lovely Smashboards logic.

 

[Snagrio]

As much as I'm honored that you consider me the king of opinions, I'm not nearly humble enough to say no, so I'll take the roll. If anyone wants an opinion, I'll have to validate it first, from now on.

My first rule is that as long as Ridley is your most number one wanted character of all time, you get to choose who your second most wanted character is.

Well, Ridley isn't my most wanted newcomer of all time, Palutena is. But since she's confirmed, Ridley has since taken that coveted spot. Does that count for your validation?

 

[TheWozny]

Am I the only one that feels like if Bowser wasn't in Melee or Brawl, people would say he's too big/ overpowered?

 

[Phaazoid]

Well, Ridley isn't my most wanted newcomer of all time, Palutena is. But since she's confirmed, Ridley has since taken that coveted spot. Does that count for your validation?

Nope, the rule said of all time. If we analyze the past, before E3, this isn't true, so you'll be covered by a separate delegation. However, since Ridley is your current favorite most wanted newcomer, you'll probably be treated kindly by the judge (me) and jury (also me)

 

[Spazzy_D]

As much as I'm honored that you consider me the king of opinions, I'm not nearly humble enough to say no, so I'll take the roll. If anyone wants an opinion, I'll have to validate it first, from now on.

My first rule is that as long as Ridley is your most number one wanted character of all time, you get to choose who your second most wanted character is.

Hooray! Validation! (although, Shulk, Takamaru, and Isaac all easily out rank any Rhythm Rep on my want list.... Still, Ridley, Megaman, Little Mac were my original top 3 in that order.)

This topic is the greatest. There is literally nothing else to talk about regarding Ridley. We've been through every argument on both sides, but here we are.

I will say this: I think Other M really missed out on an opportunity to make both an Android Mother Brain and a Smaller ground based version of Ridley cool and awesome characters that would be perfect for Smash. Yay Other M!

 

[Sigran101]

You bring some fair points in. I can see where you're coming from. If Ridley was both a boss and playable, I'd be happy with Ridley being a boss. If I didn't care about Ridley's playable status, and he was a very well done boss, I would be happy too.

But, think about it. Bowser, in the mario game with the most playable characters (mario party) is never playable, he's always a boss. Even in the new mario party 10, where you control him, you control him as a boss. Yet he's so central to the mario series that he was incorporated in as playable.

I guess I'm going to go into the deserving a spot argument

Ridley, sure, has his main appearances as a large, menacing boss. But he's also appeared in much more reasonable sizes (melee opening). He's also just as central to Samus as bowser is to mario. And Metroid really only has one character representing the series right now (same person, two slots). Around since smash 64, and only one rep? This series isn't dead, like Fzero, even Mother has more characters. Metroid should have another rep, and Ridley is definitely the most deserving character to fill that slot.

While I agree that Ridley is the main villain of metroid and a central character, as well as clearly one of the last deserving nintendo allstars, I don't know if I would put him on terms with Ganondorf or Bowser. He wasn't always important enough to be called the main villain, and he was never the final boss. (Don't take this as lack of support. He's still clearly the main villain now, and very deserving.

 

[AustarusIV]

Am I the only one that feels like if Bowser wasn't in Melee or Brawl, people would say he's too big/ overpowered?

I don't know, but I would think detractors would say the same thing about Ganondorf if he wasn't in Melee or Brawl. He's more powerful than Ridley by far in canon, and yet most people don't have a problem with his portrayal.

 

[Snagrio]

Nope, the rule said of all time. If we analyze the past, before E3, this isn't true, so you'll be covered by a separate delegation. However, since Ridley is your current favorite most wanted newcomer, you'll probably be treated kindly by the judge (me) and jury (also me)

How can the jury be made up of one person? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a jury since they'd essentially be a separate judge? How can you be two judges at once anyway?

Oh yes, I'm milking this for all its worth.

 

[Spazzy_D]

How can the jury be made up of one person? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a jury since they'd essentially be a separate judge? How can you be two judges at once anyway?

Oh yes, I'm milking this for all its worth.

Maybe you didn't notice the crown.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

Am I the only one that feels like if Bowser wasn't in Melee or Brawl, people would say he's too big/ overpowered?

No, but he would definitely be the most requested character.

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

You bring some fair points in. I can see where you're coming from. If Ridley was both a boss and playable, I'd be happy with Ridley being a boss. If I didn't care about Ridley's playable status, and he was a very well done boss, I would be happy too.

But, think about it. Bowser, in the mario game with the most playable characters (mario party) is never playable, he's always a boss. Even in the new mario party 10, where you control him, you control him as a boss. Yet he's so central to the mario series that he was incorporated in as playable.

I guess I'm going to go into the deserving a spot argument

Ridley, sure, has his main appearances as a large, menacing boss. But he's also appeared in much more reasonable sizes (melee opening). He's also just as central to Samus as bowser is to mario. And Metroid really only has one character representing the series right now (same person, two slots). Around since smash 64, and only one rep? This series isn't dead, like Fzero, even Mother has more characters. Metroid should have another rep, and Ridley is definitely the most deserving character to fill that slot.

On the topic of Ridley being both a boss and playable, at least you guys have Meta Ridley to pull off an Alfonzo.

Now as for Bowser, technically both ways is fine. I mean, Mario characters are based around the idea that they can do whatever the heck they want. "Sorry about destroying your kingdom again... Wanna go play some golf?".

As for deserving a spot, I suppose Metroid really doesn't have too much of a cast to choose from. I'm fine with just Samus and Zero Suit Samus, but that doesn't discount the hardcore Metroid fans. So, what are their options? We've got Ridley, Dark Samus, a few hunters, but other than that... With Ridley being the most popular and well-known of these, I can see why he's got a following.

 

[Phaazoid]

How can the jury be made up of one person? Doesn't that defeat the purpose of a jury since they'd essentially be a separate judge? How can you be two judges at once anyway?

Oh yes, I'm milking this for all its worth.

You see, Super King has all the powers of a king. This means full control of all branches of government, including executive, judicial, the works. So when using a common phrase that happened to use the words judge and jury (which are not needed for my arrangement), I decided to provide helpful context in order to show you how those roles would be represented in my system.

basically, this --v

Maybe you didn't notice the crown.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

On the topic of Ridley being both a boss and playable, at least you guys have Meta Ridley to pull off an Alfonzo.

Meta Ridley is the same entity as the original Ridley, so that doesn't quite work. The Ridley in Other M is a clone of the original Ridley though, so that could work.

I feel like a good down-air for Riddles would be him spiking his tail quick, resulting in a meteor effect.

If he hits with the tail spike it should meteor smash, if he hits with the tail part it should hit them upwards for a potential up-air combo. That's at least how I imagine it'd work.

 

[PlesiosaurOnDaRoof]

N3EO NEEDS TO MAKE A GENERATOR FOR THAT

 

[Phaazoid]

While I agree that Ridley is the main villain of metroid and a central character, as well as clearly one of the last deserving nintendo allstars, I don't know if I would put him on terms with Ganondorf or Bowser. He wasn't always important enough to be called the main villain, and he was never the final boss. (Don't take this as lack of support. He's still clearly the main villain now, and very deserving.

I mean, I agree in the sense that the Metroid series is not as big as the mario and zelda series, sure. I meant in terms of the series, Ridley is as important to metroid as mario/ganan are to their series. Hell, I'm pretty sure Ridley has more appearances in Metroid that Ganondorf has in LoZ.

 

[Spazzy_D]

I mean, I agree in the sense that the Metroid series is not as big as the mario and zelda series, sure. I meant in terms of the series, Ridley is as important to metroid as mario/ganan are to their series. Hell, I'm pretty sure Ridley has more appearances in Metroid that Ganondorf has in LoZ.

Ridley is the only villain that makes ANY sense to be playable.

Scratch that.

MB and Metroid as a new Rosalina and Luma clone! I should start a support thread.

 

[Smash_Veteran_Amtoj]

Meta Ridley is the same entity as the original Ridley, so that doesn't quite work. The Ridley in Other M is a clone of the original Ridley though, so that could work..

I guess Meta Ridley is the same, but Smash Bros. was never canon. You could pass him off as another Ridley.

 

[Sigran101]

I mean, I agree in the sense that the Metroid series is not as big as the mario and zelda series, sure. I meant in terms of the series, Ridley is as important to metroid as mario/ganan are to their series. Hell, I'm pretty sure Ridley has more appearances in Metroid that Ganondorf has in LoZ.

I suppose you have a point there with ganondorf, but he's at least been the final boss quite a few times. Ridley has never been the final boss. I'm not saying he's not the main villain, but I don't think he's quite as important to metroid as Bowser is to mario. Like when a new main mario game comes out, there's no question that Bowser will be in it, but with new metroid comes out, I just hope that Ridley is in it.

 

[majora_787]

I suppose you have a point there with ganondorf, but he's at least been the final boss quite a few times. Ridley has never been the final boss. I'm not saying he's not the main villain, but I don't think he's quite as important to metroid as Bowser is to mario. Like when a new main mario game comes out, there's no question that Bowser will be in it, but with new metroid comes out, I just hope that Ridley is in it.

Final boss =/= main villain. Those two things are separate from one another and CAN line up but in no way need to. Bowser can be the final boss as many times as he wants, but the fact of the matter is that Ridley has definite and explicit importance to Metroid and its plot and its events, regardless of if he is the last thing you kill. And he is the only boss to carry that importance to most of the series.

EDIT: In fact, you can be the final boss and not be important at all. So obviously you can do the opposite, not be the final boss, and be extremely important.

 

[Phaazoid]

I suppose you have a point there with ganondorf, but he's at least been the final boss quite a few times. Ridley has never been the final boss. I'm not saying he's not the main villain, but I don't think he's quite as important to metroid as Bowser is to mario. Like when a new main mario game comes out, there's no question that Bowser will be in it, but with new metroid comes out, I just hope that Ridley is in it.

I'd argue against that. There have been plenty of Mario games, both spinoff and not, where Bowser is either not in it, not the main villain, or even an ally. And you can't count the rehashed copy of the original mario bros they put out every year, because if they remade metroid every year we'd have just as many ridleys as bowsers. I'm talking about the different kinds of mario games. Honestly, his franchise has branched out in so many ways and become so saturated it really is hard to make a good comparison here.

In Metroid, there have only been 3 games without Ridley, and the games with ridley, we've seen many many incarnations of him, standard, metal, robo, X, omega, roidley, pokemon, ect. And in the games without Ridley, hunters was a spin off, and prime 2 originally actually planned to have him.

Of all the antagonists in metroid, the most common, most central, most expected is Ridley.

 

[Pacack]

Final boss =/= main villain. Those two things are separate from one another and CAN line up but in no way need to. Bowser can be the final boss as many times as he wants, but the fact of the matter is that Ridley has definite and explicit importance to Metroid and its plot and its events, regardless of if he is the last thing you kill. And he is the only boss to carry that importance to most of the series.

EDIT: In fact, you can be the final boss and not be important at all. So obviously you can do the opposite, not be the final boss, and be extremely important.

The point he's making is that being both means you're doubly important, I think.

I think it would be a better comparison to say that Ridley is the King K. Rool to Samus' Donkey Kong. Not in every game, but still undeniably the main antagonist.

 

[majora_787]

The issue is, being the final boss does not impact importance. If you can have a final boss without importance and a non-final boss with maximum importance, then clearly it's a "special slot" but it doesn't magically make you more important. More noteworthy? Maybe, I GUESS. But not more important.

The thing is, aside from Ridley? The most recurring boss *AT ALL* is Dark Samus. And she only appears in three games, one of which she was not the main antagonist (or even technically Dark Samus) but was the final boss. Ridley has been important to the series for twice as much of the series.

And comparing him to K. Rool? Ridley isn't generally "replaced with new alternatives" with new titles like K. Rool is. Hunters aside, he's basically been in or planned to be in every Metroid game since Metroid 2. K. Rool is a fair bit more unfortunate in that regard.