Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Omega Tyrant]

I would just like to point out that in a 2013 Kotaku interview, Sakurai seemed to intend to create newcomer announcement videos for every single new character:

"Sakurai has focused on having video sequences that would instead potentially benefit by being spread around. This has led to the new character intro video sequences for the Villager, Mega Man, and the Wii Fit Trainer. Sakurai expressed a desire to make similar videos for all subsequent new characters."

If this is true, then there would probably not be newcomer announcement videos after the game launches. The online spoiling of unlockable newcomers by random people on the internet would be a letdown, especially when there could instead be an official, high-quality, hype-building, viral marketing video. If Ridley was spoiled online in an anticlimactic way during launch, and then his newcomer reveal trailer was released by Nintendo two weeks later, well... that would just be a dumb move.

The way that characters are being revealed is clearly being done differently than it was during pre-Brawl. If Ridley is a playable character, we will know via a character reveal trailer before the game comes out. (Unless Ridley is DLC)

Unlockable newcomers will probably have their videos played ingame, most likely after unlocking them. That quote doesn't say Sakurai is going to cut the concept of secret newcomers (in fact during E3, he already stated he wants to keep some things about the games a secret for us to find out for ourselves when we play them). Plus the roster reveal rate at this point is still inline with the previous games' roster expansion pattern and starter-unlockable ratios, so there's no evidence that he's revealing more of the cast than usual this time.

 

[False Sense]

It's unreasonable to believe he has a shadow cast to his right in the first place because that's not the direction shadows are typically being cast in all of the footage we have of this stage.

Look at the long stretched shadow Samus is creating to her immediate left.

If you can say that shadow belongs to anything other than Samus, I'd like to hear your reasoning. It's very obvious the light source is coming from the back left.



I know you wrote a blog about how Ridley should be playable and I've read it, so I understand your passionate about it but your bias is showing a little bit.

Oh, you mean that sort of right.

I was referring to the right direction of the stage, not the characters themselves. I suppose that from Pikachu's perspective, his shadow would be more to his left. It faces to the right direction of the Pyrosphere, though. In other words, it's behind Pikachu.

Really though, it's there. Try looking at it in full screen, or something. It's hard to see, but it's definitely there if you pay attention.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Oh, you mean that sort of right.

I was referring to the right direction of the stage, not the characters themselves. I suppose that from Pikachu's perspective, his shadow would be more to his left. It faces to the right direction of the Pyrosphere, though. In other words, it's behind Pikachu.

Really though, it's there. Try looking at it in full screen, or something. It's hard to see, but it's definitely there if you pay attention.

So if you are truly asserting that the light source could possibly be different in this one single circumstance we see in the direct, thus, having a different effect on the shape the shadows (in this case, Pikachu's shadow), can we not surmise that Ridley's shadow is an in-effective starting point for anything relating to his actual [supposed] in-game size?

 

[darksamus77]

This would be it.



Yep. This is definitely some writing here.

Wow. So Metroid. Much Ridley. Such writing.

 

[Deleted member]

What an enjoyable 4 hours reading through the arguments in this thread have been.

I'm exhausted and I haven't even posted anything since the two things I wrote when @Zipzo first showed up.

Anyways, to @Zipzo I'm glad you've come down to a more rational/neutral mood (at least it seems that way to me) since your first "circle-jerk" post a while back, and while I am still that blind guy that thinks Ridley is 100% playable, you have raised some valid points, and if I wasn't tired I probably would be debating you right now.

Long story short, I commend you for coming across as intelligent and altogether inquisitive and skeptical (I enjoy skepticism as it promotes looking at things from multiple perspectives) even though I may not agree with your opinion.
I also commend your bravery for taking on the Space Pirate Mothership (aka this thread, if you don't remember that we call ourselves Space Pirates in our support of Ridley) by yourself, I know I couldn't jump in and weather such a storm by myself.

To my fellow Space Pirates, I hope you don't crucify me feed me to the Ridley Crocodiles for the above comments (Please don't kill me ), whether or not I agree with a person, I still like to acknowledge it when they have proven themselves intelligent (at least to me). I only hope this discussion takes a less combative turn as it continues and that everyone involved can come down to a more neutral tone, on all sides of the argument at hand.

I'll see you all tomorrow, for now I'm going to return to the Barracks (I think I might've taken the whole Space Pirate/Mothership thing too far, but I've committed to it completely, so oh well) to get some much needed sleep.

Have fun debating everyone and I bid you all a Good Night.

- The Soulless One

 

[majora_787]

Nah. We're mad at you. Don't come back. Not being serious plus avatar humor equals funtimes

You know, I'd assume Ridley would probably get along with Manaketes on some level. Maybe not. I dunno.

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

Unlockable newcomers will probably have their videos played ingame, most likely after unlocking them.

Okay, but if that were true, than would the already-unlocked newcomers have their videos played ingame? It doesn't make much sense to me to have some newcomers' reveal trailers ingame, but not for other newcomers.

EDIT: It would also be a bit weird to have reveal trailers play ingame for unlockable newcomers, but not for unlockable veterans.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

This is a little beyond my scope.

Ridley's tail is 1/4th that brick. @Angelglory , or anyone with modeling experience, could you scale down an Other M Ridley model to match that center brick, then post a picture of Ridley's size relative to Pyrosphere?

Whatever the case, I think I'm on the right track in saying he's tiny. Ridley, if he was boss-sized, should have a tail as thick as Samus's gun.

 

[Kalimdori]

You said you were interested in debate, so prove that to me without becoming going all fan-crazy on me mid-rebound and denouncing me for ignoring you or whatever other clutter that has nothing to do with the facts.

I have proven to you that the shadows can and do change pending the location of the light source. The location of the light source is affected inherently and somewhat indirectly by the height of a character. If the character is higher, it could mean they are closer, and it could mean the angle they stand in regards to the position of the light source could skew their shadow differently. I even gave you pictures.

Now...are you going to respond just saying I'm ignoring you again...or...like...I don't know, recognize the fact I posted actual pictures that demonstrates shadow modification in different circumstances?

First off, fan-crazy? I was addressing that the argument didn't work here, how on earth am I being fan-crazy? Please stop using personal accusations, it's rather insulting. I really don't think your seeing what I'm trying to say.

You showed two pictures: One on the Mushroom Kingdom U stage (I think) and one on Wily's Castle. Shadows do change based on the light source, that is true, and a legitimate claim, as these stages have very different lighting.

However, that does not apply to what we are arguing about, because, as I've said several times, I've compared dozens of shadows on the Pyrosphere, and, on the Pyrosphere, the shadows stay roughly the same size, regardless of what height they are at. I not sure the exact science for how a light source causes this (It's further away, so the sizes don't change dramatically?), but I know for a fact that it's the case, I've wasted way to much time comparing Pyrosphere pics.

 

[JaidynReiman]

So if you are truly asserting that the light source could possibly be different in this one single circumstance we see in the direct, thus, having a different effect on the shape the shadows (in this case, Pikachu's shadow), can we not surmise that Ridley's shadow is an in-effective starting point for anything relating to his actual [supposed] in-game size?

Yeah, of course it could be. Hell, Ridley could be even smaller. Based on the positioning, though, he doesn't look that big. Maybe the measurements are off, no one is really arguing about the shadow anymore, based on what I've read everyone's basically giving up on comparing the shadows now. Except when you bring them up again.

That said, the comparisons you made were about the shadows stretching. Which would make the shadow look bigger, not smaller. Ridley is in the air, there's really not much to stretch the shadow out. But yes, its clear that the shadow can't be used to accurately judge anything at this point (I still think it helps Ridley quite a bit, but I've given up on using the shadow to judge Ridley's size just as much as pretty much everyone else has already).


Anyway, here's a pic where I point out Pikachu's shadow:

 

[Epsilon52]

I think ill make custom graphics for us Space Pirates

 

[Deleted member 245254]

However, that does not apply to what we are arguing about, because, as I've said several times, I've compared dozens of shadows on the Pyrosphere, and, on the Pyrosphere, the shadows stay roughly the same size, regardless of what height they are at. I not sure the exact science for how a light source causes this (It's further away, so the sizes don't change dramatically?), but I know for a fact that it's the case, I've wasted way to much time comparing Pyrosphere pics.

Yet someone is arguing that in the specific case that is most relevant, the one where Ridley's shadow is shown, the light source is different.

If it wasn't, we would see Pikachu's shadow strewn towards the bottom right hand-side of his body (relative to picture, not Pikachu). Instead, all we have is a heinously difficult to see (I still don't even see it) shadow being...blocked by his body?

Clearly others who are in FAVOR of Ridley disagree with you.

The lighting is not consistent between all that we've seen of the stage.

It's seemingly consistent in all pictures we've seen, with this brief clip being the only exception.

 

[AndreaAC]

This would be it.



Yep. This is definitely some writing here.

"IT'S SO ****ING ATROCIOUS! IT HURTS! KILL ME NOW!"

 

[Con0rrrr]

So... Guys....

Ridley amirite?

 

[False Sense]

So if you are truly asserting that the light source could possibly be different in this one single circumstance we see in the direct, thus, having a different effect on the shape the shadows (in this case, Pikachu's shadow), can we not surmise that Ridley's shadow is an in-effective starting point for anything relating to his actual [supposed] in-game size?

No, I did not say anything like that. I was saying that our definitions of "right" differed, resulting in a miscommunication in regards to the location of Pikachu's shadow. Now it would seem that you misinterpreted my statement to be a claim that the lighting of this particular scene is different from every other circumstance we've seen, when in fact I am arguing that the lighting on the Pyrosphere is more than likely consistent throughout all the footage and images we've seen of it.

Though the main point I am attempting to prove is that Pikachu does have a shadow in that scene, and that you are simply unable to see it. However, I can't force you to see something. I can only provide images containing what I want you to see. Aside from that, all I can do is recommend looking harder and getting glasses.

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

So... Guys....

Ridley amirite?

What the **** is a Ridley?

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Okay, but if that were true, than would the not-unlockable newcomers have their videos played ingame? It doesn't make much sense to me to have some newcomers' reveal trailers ingame, but not for other newcomers.

EDIT: It would also be a bit weird to have reveal trailers play ingame for unlockable newcomers, but not for unlockable veterans.

Sakurai already stated all the newcomer reveal trailers would be available ingame to view any time, like how Brawl had the Sonic and Snake trailers available for free viewing.

And the only veterans so far with a reveal trailer are Sonic and (partially) Charizard, so it would be nothing unusual if the unlockable veterans don't get one.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

No, I did not say anything like that. I was saying that our definitions of "right" differed, resulting in a miscommunication in regards to the location of Pikachu's shadow. Now it would seem that you misinterpreted my statement to be a claim that the lighting of this particular scene is different from every other circumstance we've seen, when in fact I am arguing that the lighting on the Pyrosphere is more than likely consistent throughout all the footage and images we've seen of it.

Though the main point I am attempting to prove is that Pikachu does have a shadow in that scene, and that you are simply unable to see it. However, I can't force you to see something. I can only provide I images containing what I want you to see. Aside from that, all I can do is recommend looking harder and getting glasses.

There's a visual contradiction to this claim.

Pikachu's shadow, as it would exist in the frame that you are pointing out, is not consistent with other shadow depictions seen on the Pyrosphere.

I'm not contesting the existence of his shadow with this point, btw.

 

[majora_787]

What the **** is a Ridley?

False alarm. It's not Ridley. It's Ridley's clone Roidley's baby cousin Radley's annoying neighbor friend Rodney.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Sakurai already stated all the newcomer reveal trailers would be available ingame to view any time, like how Brawl had the Sonic and Snake trailers available for free viewing.

And the only veterans so far with a reveal trailer are Sonic and (partially) Charizard, so it would be nothing unusual if the unlockable veterans don't get one.

Do keep in mind, though, than "available ingame to view at any time" probably means after they are unlocked. So, the starter ones can be viewed at anytime, but unlockable ones won't be available until they are unlocked.

There's a visual contradiction to this claim.

Pikachu's shadow, as it would exist in the frame that you are pointing out, is not consistent with other shadow depictions seen on the Pyrosphere.

I'm not contesting the existence of his shadow with this point, btw.

Ok, fine. What point are you trying to make?

This shot was framed perfectly so as to obscure Ridley all-together. The shadows are inconsistent. What does that have to do with anything, though?


Prior to the recent videos, the lava was not in the Final Destination version of Pyrosphere. If the lava was causing the shadows, it would actually make sense that with the lava removed, the shadows are different (perhaps ther'es also a lava flow behind the camera). Which only points towards Ridley being playable even more.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Sakurai didn't say that the trailers would be viewable from the begining though.

 

[GraveEclipse567]

Sakurai didn't say that the trailers would be viewable from the begining though.

I remember reading that they can be seen without the need of unlocking the day that it was announced the game wouldn't have a story mode.

 

[Kalimdori]

Yet someone is arguing that in the specific case that is most relevant, the one where Ridley's shadow is shown, the light source is different.

If it wasn't, we would see Pikachu's shadow strewn towards the bottom right hand-side of his body (relative to picture, not Pikachu). Instead, all we have is a heinously difficult to see (I still don't even see it) shadow being...blocked by his body?

Clearly others who are in FAVOR of Ridley disagree with you.

The lighting is not consistent between all that we've seen of the stage.

It's in comparison to the introduction pic of the Pyrosphere, correct?

The lighting physics for the Pyrosphere changed around... December I think? I didn't notice until I started going through the pics, however, since then, the light source is the same as the one shown in the Direct.

For example:

The shadow is being cast into the background to the right. This is exactly how Ridley's was cast.

In the Greninja trailer, at 2:02, there's a quick clip of Charizard jumping into the air. It's the same shadow placement in comparison to the lightsource, and the shadow stays roughly the same size as he rises. (Yes, that is the FD version and it might be different, I'll try to find a better example)

 

[JaidynReiman]

I remember reading that they can be seen without the need of unlocking the day that it was announced the game wouldn't have a story mode.

Doesn't mean unlockable newcomers don't have unlockable trailers as well, though.

It's in comparison to the introduction pic of the Pyrosphere, correct?

The lighting physics for the Pyrosphere changed around... December I think? I didn't notice until I started going through the pics, however, since then, the light source is the same as the one shown in the Direct.

For example:

The shadow is being cast into the background to the right. This is exactly how Ridley's was cast.

In the Greninja trailer, at 2:02, there's a quick clip of Charizard jumping into the air. It's the same shadow placement in comparison to the lightsource, and the shadow stays roughly the same size as he rises. (Yes, that is the FD version and it might be different, I'll try to find a better example)

Welp, I was wrong about the lava flow causing the shadows, my bad. Still doesn't say one thing or another about Ridley.

Actually, it does... Ridley's not much bigger than Mother Brain's shadow and we can SEE mother brain.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Do keep in mind, though, than "available ingame to view at any time" probably means after they are unlocked. So, the starter ones can be viewed at anytime, but unlockable ones won't be available until they are unlocked.

By "at any time" I meant you can watch any time after they're available, so yes, of course the unlockable newcomers wouldn't have theirs available until you did unlock those characters.

 

[Epsilon52]

This is not how I imagined the "Ridley 900 Page Celebration Extravaganza Fiesta Party Shindig Boomtastic Event" to be like.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

I remember reading that they can be seen without the need of unlocking the day that it was announced the game wouldn't have a story mode.

Link?

 

[majora_787]

Guys, when Sakurai said trailers won't need to be unlocked, I am pretty sure what he meant was they won't have to be unlocked separately from the character. So when you actually have all of the characters, you'll have their trailers. You won't have to unlock those too. Stages, however, are another story.

EDIT: Though I suppose it's possible that all trailers are just 'available', that removes the need for hidden characters. Which I would assume we still have. We don't really have a reason to believe we won't.

 

[AbioFlesh]

You know guys, I have been inspired to make an incredibly s***** fanfic about Metroid. Think along the lines of My Immortal.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdv6Q68EutU I highly recommend it, it's so bad it's good.
Ridley x Queen Xenomorph.

Anyways, I'm halfway done with the concept. Would it be a good idea to use inspiration from his design in the manga?

 

[SevenGameSet]

Ah yes good times we're having.
I'd say this is relatively normal for ridley sooo yeah...*sniff*

 

[JaidynReiman]

Guys, when Sakurai said trailers won't need to be unlocked, I am pretty sure what he meant was they won't have to be unlocked separately from the character. So when you actually have all of the characters, you'll have their trailers. You won't have to unlock those too. Stages, however, are another story.

EDIT: Though I suppose it's possible that all trailers are just 'available', that removes the need for hidden characters. Which I would assume we still have. We don't really have a reason to believe we won't.

Yeah, I don't think "secret" characters will have the trailers available from the start. Once the character is unlocked so does the trailer.

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

http://kotaku.com/the-next-super-smash-bros-wont-have-a-story-mode-or-c-906856304

I'm assuming this^ is what everyone is loosely referring to. Unless there's some other interview that I'm unaware of, this makes no mention of the character trailers being included in the game.

 

[majora_787]

Stages of course, would be another matter. I'd assume stages associated with 3rd parties as well as some hidden stages associated with some unlockable characters will need to be unlocked.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Examining the direct, it almost seems as though Pikachu's shadow disappears for a split second. It is visible in the frame exampled above, but it doesn't appear to remain constant as he walks by, there are very definite frames where the shadow is just simply not there.

This seems to be somewhat analogous to claims of Ridley's shadow acting strangely (in terms of frame rate or other things).

There's all sorts of developmental wack-stuff that could be happening in that clip.

In the end, I just want to prove that the shadow cannot be held accountable for determining his exact size. Thus, giving all arguments relative to the size of Ridley being playable because he is small, or being a non-threatening boss because he is small, sort of inaccurate.

 

[False Sense]

There's a visual contradiction to this claim.

Pikachu's shadow, as it would exist in the frame that you are pointing out, is not consistent with other shadow depictions seen on the Pyrosphere.

I'm not contesting the existence of his shadow with this point, btw.

What about Mother Brain's shadow?

I think someone else before me brought that up.

 

[GraveEclipse567]

Link?

I found the article I thought it was from, but I can't find the thing that I'm saying on it, so I probably read an assumption from a random person or something.
http://kotaku.com/the-next-super-sm..._source=Kotaku_Facebook&utm_medium=Socialflow
There's the article if you're still curious.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Examining the direct, it almost seems as though Pikachu's shadow disappears for a split second. It is visible in the frame exampled above, but it doesn't appear to remain constant as he walks by, there are very definite frames where the shadow is just simply not there.

This seems to be somewhat analogous to claims of Ridley's shadow acting strangely (in terms of frame rate or other things).

There's all sorts of developmental wack-stuff that could be happening in that clip.

In the end, I just want to prove that the shadow cannot be held accountable for determining his exact size. Thus, giving all arguments relative to the size of Ridley being playable because he is small, or being a non-threatening boss because he is small, sort of inaccurate.

People already came to this conclusion about three pages ago, you kept responding to people and bringing it back up again.


But now Mother Brain's shadow throws that entirely into question, because Ridley's shadow is barely bigger than Mother Brain's shadow, and Mother Brain's shadow is consistent with both Pikachu's and Ridley's shadow in the direct.

 

[AbioFlesh]

This is not how I imagined the "Ridley 900 Page Celebration Extravaganza Fiesta Party Shindig Boomtastic Event" to be like.

Noooo- We don't do that til the 9001st page.

 

[Omega Tyrant]

Kotaku didn't have the full statement, you can see it here http://mynintendonews.com/2013/06/17/smash-bros-wii-u-and-3ds-story-mode-wont-be-like-brawl/

The exact quote “What we decided this time around, we’re just going to have [those movies unlocked] from the beginning. We’re going to have a movie for Wii Fit Trainer, The Villager and Mega Man and they’ll be viewable right at the beginning, you can watch those right away.”

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Ridley deconfirmed
This is the best thing

Don't know whether or not to be grateful for youtube ads saving me from getting rickrolled there earlier, which is... a practice I haven't seen done in years.

I don't know where this came from, but it's hands down my favorite representation of Ridley:

I don't care that it's art for Omega Ridley give me this ^ or this:

Spoiler

Black Ridley is Best Ridley.

in-game and my unbounded and uncontrollable happiness would cure cancer and end world hunger.

I think these representations of Ridley are SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO AMAZING.

Thing I always liked about Ridley in that concept art (first pic) was aside from the obvious intended Phazon look with the blue and body being more sleek, the wings looked like they were made of circuit-board like material. Perhaps an "upgrade" to the kind of fiery wings Meta-Ridley had. Regardless, a computerized mechanical Ridley with circuit-board wings would be cool, as a more "finished" version of Zero Mission's Mecha Ridley.