Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[majora_787]

Unless you can make this visually apparent, this is false.

... If we cannot somehow convince the person who has made a deliberate effort to ignore all facts presented to stop ignoring the facts presented, the facts presented are all false?

...So basically, we're wrong because you say so. Right. Gotcha. You'll go far, I'm sure.

 

[ppbto]

Usually, when I see an on going debate I just jump on it without a second though, but I see no reason for me to join to this debate as I haven't seen a decent argument.
With the current amount of evidence that we have, we can't confirm or disconfirm Ridley's playability as it can be interpreted in so many ways. Until further evidence is given, Ridley will remain in his status of playable/no playable. The Schrödinger's space dragon as I like to call it.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Hate to say it, but I think your scale charts are inaccurate.

Well dammit, you could've told me that like a few hundred pages ago.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Shulk sadly.....



Well we can look at Ridley's tail. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Ridley's tail bone pure white in Other M?

The added color on his tail could give us an idea what color his skin might be.

How come shulk ridleys not cut out of this, i mean august is the anniversary month of the pyrosphere announcment.

Aka ridley got threw 1 100% full year without being revealed.

 

[False Sense]

Well dammit, you could've told me that like a few hundred pages ago.

I did.

 

[darksamus77]

No, I was never trying to prove Ridley is playable. I've always been of the opinion he won't be, since the beginning (obviously).

Essentially, my point is...

That analyzing the shadow is a pretty muddy way of coming to any conclusions. Folks believe he will be playable simply because he is smaller, and why would they make him smaller if he won't be playable and is only in to be a boss?

My argument was that we cannot definitively say he is small with the evidence we have.

I'm not putting words in to anyone's mouth. You are basically straw-man attacking me.

If you're not going to address my points, why even reply? Do you just get a kick out of just attacking the integrity of my desire to debate his inclusion instead of actually debating his inclusion?

And there you go, again, claiming you're being attacked. I don't do passive-aggressive BS so I'm not dragon this out all night. Look, you have your opinion and I have mine, but coming in and claiming you're an innocent victim after all of this is ludicrously preposterous. I can't even fathom your mindset to think you're exempt from judgment after you took a side and chastised those on the other side of it. You say you want a debate yet all you seem to do is instigate arguments. This Ridley has to stop now.

 

[Kalimdori]

Well dammit, you could've told me that like a few hundred pages ago.

I think this is the third time I've said it, but compare the shadow positions of other characters to Ridley's, and extrapolate how high up certain parts of his body are. Might take a little effort, but it will show exactly how big he is if it's done right.

EDIT: Oh. we passed 900 pages. How did I miss that...

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

How come shulk ridleys not cut out of this, i mean august is the anniversary month of the pyrosphere announcment.

Aka ridley got threw 1 100% full year without being revealed.

But he would most likely be a hidden character.

 

[majora_787]

And there you go, again, claiming you're being attacked. I don't do passive-aggressive BS so I'm not dragon this out all night. Look, you have your opinion and I have mine, but coming in and claiming you're an innocent victim after all of this is ludicrously preposterous. I can't even fathom your mindset to think you're exempt from judgment after you took a side and chastised those on the other side of it. You say you want a debate yet all you seem to do is instigate arguments. This Ridley has to stop now.

I'm ridley glad you kraid this point.

... Damn it, Ridley thread. Look at what you're making me do.

 

[Epsilon52]

I dont think anyone can speculate on the importance of a shadow until theyve reproduced it in a controlled environment. That would require the engine or concrete proof they understand every part of the lighting engine and its rules. which none of us have. So can we please move this along?

 

[Deleted member 245254]

The camera isn't the light source here, the light is still coming from the same place

And this isn't science. Like I said (And you keep ignoring)

Why do you keep plugging in the "you keep ignoring" bit? It only servers to be an antagonizer, obviously I'm not ignoring what you're saying. If I'm not understanding your point that's one thing, but do the discussion a favor and let's assume I know how to read, OK?

I've compared dozens of shadows on the Pyrosphere, the size of the shadows stays the same size regardless of height.

Oh my gosh, you are ignoring my point.

If the character shadows do not scale based on height, that's fine, but they do change based on the light source's angle. For example, a sun shining on a tree from the horizon.

You can see the shadow to the right of Mario's foot. Compare to this picture of Mario...

See how the shadow stretches to the left? It's way longer than the above picture, and goes in a completely different direction.

Clearly, despite any limitations their graphics engine has in concerns to lighting, it does modify their shadow based on a few certain dependencies.

 

[majora_787]

I dont think anyone can speculate on the importance of a shadow until theyve reproduced it in a controlled environment. That would require the engine or concrete proof they understand every part of the lighting engine and its rules. which none of us have. So can we please move this along?

The issue is we can directly compare multiple shadows in the exact same environment. But there is no point in discussing it further.

Let's talk about something else to frustrate people for no reason. The Ferrocrusher.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

But he would most likely be a hidden character.

Yea thats true.

If we do not see ridley potd before the release of the japan version, im going to be 99% comenced hes playable.

But ofcoarse a outside picture of the day will be a leak with the full roster so possible by then of his fate.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

But ofcoarse a outside picture of the day will be a leak with the full roster so possible by then of his fate.

When did we get the full roster of Brawl leaked?

 

[Deleted member 245254]

View attachment 16345

See that really thin line across the floor? That's the shadow of Pikachu's tail.

I don't see anything.

And there you go, again, claiming you're being attacked. I don't do passive-aggressive BS so I'm not dragon this out all night. Look, you have your opinion and I have mine, but coming in and claiming you're an innocent victim after all of this is ludicrously preposterous. I can't even fathom your mindset to think you're exempt from judgment after you took a side and chastised those on the other side of it. You say you want a debate yet all you seem to do is instigate arguments. This Ridley has to stop now.

What is even the point of this? You keep repeating the same stuff here.

"You keep doing this. You keep doing that. Your mindset is X. You think this and that"

Why not keep to the discussion? Why do you keep making this about me?

 

[Epsilon52]

I dont think anyone can speculate on the importance of a shadow until theyve reproduced it in a controlled environment. That would require the engine or concrete proof they understand every part of the lighting engine and its rules. which none of us have. So can we please move this along?

We cant pull any more data out of what we have. Great job to everyone who has contributed but really....its become a confusing ordeal. No one understands anyones point or view. Id hate to see this thread get locked

 

[Anomilus]

I dont think anyone can speculate on the importance of a shadow until theyve reproduced it in a controlled environment. That would require the engine or concrete proof they understand every part of the lighting engine and its rules. which none of us have. So can we please move this along?

So much this.

...Not the "move this along" part. Though that would be nice.

I mean the recreation part. Some of you guys *cough*Angelglory*cough* have the tools to work with 3D models (Angelglory comes to mind). Can you guys create lighting sources and cast shadows as well? Or something remotely close to it?


EDIT - Angelglory

 

[Kalimdori]

Why do you keep plugging in the "you keep ignoring" bit? It only servers to be an antagonizer, obviously I'm not ignoring what you're saying. If I'm not understanding your point that's one thing, but do the discussion a favor and let's assume I know how to read, OK?



Oh my gosh, you are ignoring my point.

If the character shadows do not scale based on height, that's fine, but they do change based on the light source's angle. For example, a sun shining on a tree from the horizon.

You can see the shadow to the right of Mario's foot. Compare to this picture of Mario...

See how the shadow stretches to the left? It's way longer than the above picture, and goes in a completely different direction.

Clearly, despite any limitations their graphics engine has in concerns to lighting, it does modify their shadow based on a few certain dependencies.

No, I'm getting your point. It's irrelevant to this argument though, and now I'm sure your not getting my point, as you are trying to use two different light sources on two different stages.

The light source is the same, as this is the same stage. We have character shadows that are on the same stage, and using the same light source.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Alright, new plan; I'm going to measure Ridley's size relative to the Pyrosphere itself.

@Angelglory , anyone else? I'm going to need bird's eye views of the Pyrosphere. This brick distorting Ridley's tail intrigues me.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

When did we get the full roster of Brawl leaked?

I think the giga leak of smash bros brawl was in january 2008ish

 

[darksamus77]

I'm gonna go before I get flagged/banned from this wonderful thread. LONG LIVE RIDLEY, AND MAY HIS ENEMIES SHUDDER IN FEAR AT THE MERE MENTION OF HIS NAME

 

[Deleted member 245254]

No, I'm getting your point. It's irrelevant to this argument though, and now I'm sure your not getting my point, as you are trying to use two different light sources on two different stages.

The light source is the same, as this is the same stage. We have character shadows that are on the same stage, and using the same light source.

As far as I've considered, we have a shadow of Ridley and an un-specified light source.

What exactly are you referring to here that deserved bold underline aside from that which I've mentioned?

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I think the giga leak of smash bros brawl was in january 2008ish

So, the month the game came out...

 

[False Sense]

I don't see anything.

...Well, it is rather hard to see, but I can assure you that Pikachu does have a shadow there. At this point, all I can do is recommend to watch the footage again and really look closely at the floor to Pikachu's right.

Though really, how likely is it that Pikachu does not have a shadow here? Isn't it infinitely more likely that Pikachu's shadow is just hard to see due to its small size and being obscured by Pikachu's body?

 

[majora_787]

@ Kalimdori

Just stop. It really isn't worth it to keep going. He's very insistent on ignoring literally everything and bother everyone here. Join the rest of us, ignore him, and make Ridley puns again.

EDIT: Guys, if you don't stop keeping this shenaniganfest afloat I will start making a very painful to read fake ranking of the Metroid series going from Other M to Metroid Prime. And it wouldn't be in ascending order.

To reiterate in case anyone is going to keep arguing about this, I am not even joking.

 

[Kalimdori]

As far as I've considered, we have a shadow of Ridley and an un-specified light source.

What exactly are you referring to here that deserved bold underline aside from that which I've mentioned?

The fact that we have a light source, while unspecified, is on the Pyrosphere and doesn't move, seeing as literally every shadow on the Pyrosphere follows the characteristics of being cast by said light source. Unless Ridley's lighting physics are completely different from literally everything else on the Pyrosphere, which is laughable, I can't even see how you think your point holds any water.

EDIT:

@ Kalimdori

Just stop. It really isn't worth it to keep going. He's very insistent on ignoring literally everything and bother everyone here. Join the rest of us, ignore him, and make Ridley puns again.

EDIT: Guys, if you don't stop keeping this shenaniganfest afloat I will start making a very painful to read fake ranking of the Metroid series going from Other M to Metroid Prime. And it wouldn't be in ascending order.

To reiterate in case anyone is going to keep arguing about this, I am not even joking.

Posted this before this came up, pleeeeasssseee don't do that, I'll stop XD

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

But he would most likely be a hidden character.

I would just like to point out that in a 2013 Kotaku interview, Sakurai seemed to intend to create newcomer announcement videos for every single new character:

"Sakurai has focused on having video sequences that would instead potentially benefit by being spread around. This has led to the new character intro video sequences for the Villager, Mega Man, and the Wii Fit Trainer. Sakurai expressed a desire to make similar videos for all subsequent new characters."

If this is true, then there would probably not be newcomer announcement videos after the game launches. The online spoiling of unlockable newcomers by random people on the internet would be a letdown, especially when there could instead be an official, high-quality, hype-building, viral marketing video. If Ridley was spoiled online in an anticlimactic way during launch, and then his newcomer reveal trailer was released by Nintendo two weeks later, well... that would just be a dumb move.

The way that characters are being revealed is clearly being done differently than it was during pre-Brawl. If Ridley is a playable character, we will know via a character reveal trailer before the game comes out. (Unless Ridley is DLC)

 

[Deleted member 245254]

...Well, it is rather hard to see, but I can assure you that Pikachu does have a shadow there. At this point, all I can do is recommend to watch the footage again and really look closely at the floor to Pikachu's right.

Though really, how likely is it that Pikachu does not have a shadow here? Isn't it infinitely more likely that Pikachu's shadow is just hard to see due to its small size and being obscured by Pikachu's body?

It's unreasonable to believe he has a shadow cast to his right in the first place because that's not the direction shadows are typically being cast in all of the footage we have of this stage.

Look at the long stretched shadow Samus is creating to her immediate left.

If you can say that shadow belongs to anything other than Samus, I'd like to hear your reasoning. It's very obvious the light source is coming from the back left.

The fact that we have a light source, while unspecified, is on the Pyrosphere and doesn't move, seeing as literally every shadow on the Pyrosphere follows the characteristics of being cast by said light source. Unless Ridley's lighting physics are completely different from literally everything else on the Pyrosphere, which is laughable, I can't even see how you think your point holds any water.

I know you wrote a blog about how Ridley should be playable and I've read it, so I understand your passionate about it but your bias is showing a little bit.

 

[JaidynReiman]

...Well, it is rather hard to see, but I can assure you that Pikachu does have a shadow there. At this point, all I can do is recommend to watch the footage again and really look closely at the floor to Pikachu's right.

Though really, how likely is it that Pikachu does not have a shadow here? Isn't it infinitely more likely that Pikachu's shadow is just hard to see due to its small size and being obscured by Pikachu's body?

Yeah, I saw Pikachu's shadow in the footage, its just obscured by Pikachu's body so its really hard to see.


Either way it doesn't matter too much at this point because we can't determine anything based on Pikachu's shadow.

 

[aldelaro5]

Seems like the April direct all over again I hope I won't have to quit talking here for a month to let the dust disappear.

Because I'm honestly trying to understand and the more and more it goes, the more questions I have so, I'm just going to lurk here.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

I would just like to point out that in a 2013 Kotaku interview, Sakurai seemed to intend to create newcomer announcement videos for every single new character:

"Sakurai has focused on having video sequences that would instead potentially benefit by being spread around. This has led to the new character intro video sequences for the Villager, Mega Man, and the Wii Fit Trainer. Sakurai expressed a desire to make similar videos for all subsequent new characters."

If this is true, then there would probably not be newcomer announcement videos after the game launches. The online spoiling of unlockable newcomers by random people on the internet would be a letdown, especially when there could instead be an official, high-quality, hype-building, viral marketing video. If Ridley was spoiled online during launch, and then his newcomer reveal trailer was released by Nintendo two weeks later, well... that would just be a dumb move.

The way that characters are revealed is clearly being done differently than it was during pre-Brawl. If Ridley is a playable character, we will know via a character reveal trailer before the game comes out. (Unless Ridley is DLC)

But what about the Sal newcomers? There's not enough time.

 

[JaidynReiman]

It's unreasonable to believe he has a shadow cast to his right in the first place because that's not the direction shadows are typically being cast in all of the footage we have of this stage.

Look at the long stretched shadow Samus is creating to her immediate left.

If you can say that shadow belongs to anything other than Samus, I'd like to hear your reasoning. It's very obvious the light source is coming from the back left.

And obviously, the light is coming from a different direction in the video, because Pikachu DOES have a shadow right behind him, its just very hard to see. If you look closely, you can see Pikachu's shadow in the video.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

@ Kalimdori

Just stop. It really isn't worth it to keep going. He's very insistent on ignoring literally everything and bother everyone here. Join the rest of us, ignore him, and make Ridley puns again.

I'm sorry, but you are just being a jerk right here.

I'm not ignoring anything, although why don't you try to bring up relevant counter points to upwards of 10 freaking people screaming in rage at you. It's not easy. It's not exactly realistically possible to expect that I'd respond to everyone specifically.

I'm really trying to understand how anyone can think Ridley would be playable from that shadow, accompanied with the "bosses" teaser line during the bosses info-dump. I've presented evidence and reasoning as to why analyzing the shadow is not an accurate way to observe that he is a "playable" size, and I'm not insulting anyone.

Really, you're the one here who is basically flaming. Get over yourself.

 

[majora_787]

Posted this before this came up, pleeeeasssseee don't do that, I'll stop XD

I'm prepared to make sacrifices to keep this thread intact. I've read that awful Metroid High School fanfic, I have a reference to use. So y'all better behave yourselves. Ridley's watching.

 

[Kalimdori]

I know you wrote a blog about how Ridley should be playable and I've read it, so I understand your passionate about it but your bias is showing a little bit.

Could you actually respond to what I was saying instead of trying to claim I'm biased? Because I'm extremely curious as to what your logic is behind your argument, because I just showed you it doesn't apply here.

(Sorry @ majora_787 , last time, I promise.)

 

[AbioFlesh]

I'm prepared to make sacrifices to keep this thread intact. I've read that awful Metroid High School fanfic, I have a reference to use. So y'all better behave yourselves. Ridley's watching.

... Links please? I get a kick out of reading terrible fan fiction.

 

[RIDLEY is too SMALL]

But what about the Sal newcomers? There's not enough time.

That's a good point. Well, 3 newcomers (and 9 veterans) were simultaneously revealed at E3 last year, 3 newcomers were simultaneously revealed at E3 this year, and the Smash Direct had 5 characters (although only 1 was a newcomer). If we had another Smash Direct, then they might reveal a bunch of newcomers that way.

However they get revealed, I'm confident that all the newcomers will be announced prior to launch.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Could you actually respond to what I was saying instead of trying to claim I'm biased? Because I'm extremely curious as to what your logic is behind your argument, because I just showed you it doesn't apply here.

(Sorry @ majora_787 , last time, I promise.)

You said you were interested in debate, so prove that to me without becoming going all fan-crazy on me mid-rebound and denouncing me for ignoring you or whatever other clutter that has nothing to do with the facts.

I have proven to you that the shadows can and do change pending the location of the light source. The location of the light source is affected inherently and somewhat indirectly by the height of a character. If the character is higher, it could mean they are closer, and it could mean the angle they stand in regards to the position of the light source could skew their shadow differently. I even gave you pictures.

Now...are you going to respond just saying I'm ignoring you again...or...like...I don't know, recognize the fact I posted actual pictures that demonstrates shadow modification in different circumstances?

 

[majora_787]

... Links please? I get a kick out of reading terrible fan fiction.

This would be it.

Uhhhh... Do you... uhh. Dd.. d... do you want to... go.. to the dance with me?

Yep. This is definitely some writing here.

 

[AbioFlesh]

This would be it.

I just took a glimpse at the words visible on my screen and completely lost it.