Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Kalimdori]

I already stated why I accused many in this thread of sounding like they're in denial; they argue against detractors like its only logical to believe he will be playable based on has been given to us, and that makes it easy to feel like a reality check is needed occasionally for Ridley supporters.

The chances are not good. I think accepting this is important.

I just think a little more humility on both sides would do the discussion well, overall.

Thing is, if Ridley is just a boss hazard, Sakurai's actions with him are illogical. What sense is there of hyping up a boss hazard, a gimmick to something that has always been present in Smash Bros? Especially when it's a character that is highly requested in the Smash community to be playable? That is parallel to hyping up Mewtwo as a Master Ball Pokemon, as that is also a gimmick to an already existing feature.

We've had 10 months, 10 months, since the Pyrosphere was shown. Since then, all we have gotten in reference to Ridley is a tease of a shadow. Ridley is literally the only character that he has been this ambiguous with that has yet to be confirmed playable. This has happened 2 times before. First, of course, is , who was in an even worse situation then Ridley, as we actually saw his full model in game. Second is , whose situation before she was confirmed was nearly identical to that of Ridley. Why?

10 months ago, we received confirmation that the Pyrosphere would appear as a stage. In addition to this, we were hinted that an enemy from Samus's past (Samus's trauma in the Japanese version, confirming it to be Ridley) could appear at any second. Ridley was not mentioned by name, nor was he was confirmed as to what role he would play, although the text combined with the picture suggests that he could be a stage boss. A few months later, we got a picture of Palutena's temple, with a full picture of Palutena's statue in the background. The quote was that the Goddess of Light would be watching over the battlefield. Palutena was not mentioned by name, nor was she confirmed as to what role he would play, although the text combined with the picture suggests that she would merely be a statue.

Fast forward to the Direct: We were shown, at the end of the Yellow Devil section, we were tease with Ridley's shadow, with the quote of "Boss characters can appear on other stages, not just this one." Ridley confirmed to be a boss, right? Well, later, in the trophy section, we were teased with a picture of Pseudo Palutena. Soooo....... Palutena confirmed to be a statue?

Then it comes to the shadow itself. This is NOT as irrelevant as people try to claim. Why? Because A) We can directly correlate what size he is in the Direct (Which is easily the smallest he's ever been, excluding the original Metroid) and B) we can see how he moves and how his animations work, as they follow the actions of the character, we have seen this from previous footage of the Pyrosphere. Well, of course, his boss battle couldn't be done yet, right? That is possible, sure, although extremely unlikely. We were shown the Pyrosphere 8 months before the Direct, it does not take that long to program a boss fight to the point that he can only fly slowly in a straight line and hover. And there is no excuse for him being small, Ridley in Brawl was enormous, getting shrunk down to this size and being stuck as a stage boss is a painful demotion.

And even IF that is a poorly designed boss, we still have the Alfonzo meme. But I don't think I need to explain that.

Those are my arguments. If you wish to discuss, please do. I enjoy a good debate.

 

[Snagrio]

Oooo, this thread is a few pages ahead of schedule. Thank you @Zipzo!

 

[Lanog20]

This thread right now

Please just ignore the guy.

 

[majora_787]

Oooo, this thread is a few pages ahead of schedule. Thank you @Zipzo!

Your avatar is describing how I feel about this right now better than mine is. xD

 

[WayfaringElf]

I've figured it out, Zipzo saw how big of a thread we are, so he wanted to stir up controversy and create a massive debate on Ridley so that this thread would grow even faster.

Oooo, this thread is a few pages ahead of schedule. Thank you @Zipzo!

 

[UltimateWario]

So, to maybe learn something, can I get a play-by-play of how Ridley's animations play out in the direct?

I've seen people mention they think he's jumping, landing on platforms, grabbin' some 'Chu, double jumping, etc, but all I can see is a clunky, awkward flying animation. Someone mind sending me to Ridley school?

 

[Luigi#1]

Thing is, if Ridley is just a boss hazard, Sakurai's actions with him are illogical. What sense is there of hyping up a boss hazard, a gimmick to something that has always been present in Smash Bros? Especially when it's a character that is highly requested in the Smash community to be playable? That is parallel to hyping up Mewtwo as a Master Ball Pokemon, as that is also a gimmick to an already existing feature.

We've had 10 months, 10 months, since the Pyrosphere was shown. Since then, all we have gotten in reference to Ridley is a tease of a shadow. Ridley is literally the only character that he has been this ambiguous with that has yet to be confirmed playable. This has happened 2 times before. First, of course, is , who was in an even worse situation then Ridley, as we actually saw his full model in game. Second is , whose situation before she was confirmed was nearly identical to that of Ridley. Why?

10 months ago, we received confirmation that the Pyrosphere would appear as a stage. In addition to this, we were hinted that an enemy from Samus's past (Samus's trauma in the Japanese version, confirming it to be Ridley) could appear at any second. Ridley was not mentioned by name, nor was he was confirmed as to what role he would play, although the text combined with the picture suggests that he could be a stage boss. A few months later, we got a picture of Palutena's temple, with a full picture of Palutena's statue in the background. The quote was that the Goddess of Light would be watching over the battlefield. Palutena was not mentioned by name, nor was she confirmed as to what role he would play, although the text combined with the picture suggests that she would merely be a statue.

Fast forward to the Direct: We were shown, at the end of the Yellow Devil section, we were tease with Ridley's shadow, with the quote of "Boss characters can appear on other stages, not just this one." Ridley confirmed to be a boss, right? Well, later, in the trophy section, we were teased with a picture of Pseudo Palutena. Soooo....... Palutena confirmed to be a statue?

Then it comes to the shadow itself. This is NOT as irrelevant as people try to claim. Why? Because A) We can directly correlate what size he is in the Direct (Which is easily the smallest he's ever been, excluding the original Metroid) and B) we can see how he moves and how his animations work, as they follow the actions of the character, we have seen this from previous footage of the Pyrosphere. Well, of course, his boss battle couldn't be done yet, right? That is possible, sure, although extremely unlikely. We were shown the Pyrosphere 8 months before the Direct, it does not take that long to program a boss fight to the point that he can only fly slowly in a straight line and hover. And there is no excuse for him being small, Ridley in Brawl was enormous, getting shrunk down to this size and being stuck as a stage boss is a painful demotion.

And even IF that is a poorly designed boss, we still have the Alfonzo meme. But I don't think I need to explain that.

Those are my arguments. If you wish to discuss, please do. I enjoy a good debate.

Cue this post being ignored or ridiculed by Zipzo even though it is a very logical post.

 

[FreeFallUp]

So, to maybe learn something, can I get a play-by-play of how Ridley's animations play out in the direct?

I've seen people mention they think he's jumping, landing on platforms, grabbin' some 'Chu, double jumping, etc, but all I can see is a clunky, awkward flying animation. Someone mind sending me to Ridley school?

Sure, but remember, the tuition is sure to create a LARGE hole in your wallet.

 

[AbioFlesh]

Okay...but at the same time it's not as though Metroid or Punch Out flounders in Japan. Do you have any statistics pointing at Little Mac or Ridley being completely unwarranted or unwanted from the Japanese perspective?

Who said anything about them completely ignoring them? I'm saying they are just not as popular in japan as they are in any other place. (to my knowledge)

Also just look at that Nintendo Digital Event and the fact that the tournament existed. They are changing. I wouldn't be surprised if they wanted to get involved with their fans more.

 

[darksamus77]

Okay...but at the same time it's not as though Metroid or Punch Out flounders in Japan. Do you have any statistics pointing at Little Mac or Ridley being completely unwarranted or unwanted from the Japanese perspective?

The games don't sell nearly as well in Japan as they do in the US. Look up any Metroid game's sales and the numbers are very much North American favored, same as Punch-Out. The Wii version in particular sold well in the US but terribly in Japan.

 

[MischF]

I've figured it out, Zipzo saw how big of a thread we are, so he wanted to stir up controversy and create a massive debate on Ridley so that this thread would grow even faster.

Nah Zipzo also went to the gematsu leak thread to pick on someone and that place is pretty much dead at the moment. Zipzo just seems like he is here to aggravate people. He ignores the people that give him direct reasons for why they think he will be playable, he pretends that debunking arguments against ridley are proving nothing, he is using some fairly aggressive language, and he dodges questions aimed to figure out what he is actually here for. He isn't here for debate otherwise he would take into consideration the strongest arguments instead of just ignoring them.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Guys....

Just let Zipzo have his opinion.

This is getting ridiculous.

 

[Saltwater Gem]

If you wish to discuss, please do. I enjoy a good debate.

I'm just gonna quote this part for the sake of brevity...

My honest to goodness question is this:

Let's say this thing plays out and it turns out Ridley is a boss. All the shadow comparing, the choices to interpret Sakurai's quotes to support your own viewpoint rather than their obvious implication, believing Sakurai is playing some multi-year mind-game with fans, all of these things... will, at that point, you be willing to admit that you (or anyone in this thread, really) might have been seeing things that weren't there?

 

[OblivionWolf]

So, to maybe learn something, can I get a play-by-play of how Ridley's animations play out in the direct?

I've seen people mention they think he's jumping, landing on platforms, grabbin' some 'Chu, double jumping, etc, but all I can see is a clunky, awkward flying animation. Someone mind sending me to Ridley school?

Here is what I see as the jump. Slowed down.

 

[UltimateWario]

Here is what I see as the jump. Slowed down.

jump.gif

Oh, wow. Slowed down, it really does look like he's jumping off of something.

EDIT: Yeah, no way those are Roidley's wings. Even if nothing else has changed, that's at least not a ripped model with better textures.

 

[Saltwater Gem]

Here are 2 random pics that could help picture how small Ridley is too. Remember Kirby is bigger/longer then Ridley's hand.

Kirby looks pretty comparable to the Yellow Devil's hand here, as well... and YD is a boss.

 

[Epsilon52]

Guys. I dont think we should worry about Ridley being a stage boss. Nintendo has already done this. Same stage. Same set up.

Dead or Alive Dimensions. Pyrosphere. Lava. Other M ridley flying around grabbing people.

Would Sakurai really just copy this again? Naw...he's not that bad.

Plus, Sakurai has said Pyrosphere has a Final destination mode with no hazards. In the photo for this, the lava is sealed off. The hole in the wall remains.

These two photos below are from Pyrosphere on the 3DS for Dead or alive Dimensions.

 

[Luigi#1]

Putting Zipzo on ignore, this is the 3rd thread Zipzo's been aggravating on.

 

[majora_787]

It's not that Zipzo doesn't get to have an opinion. It's just that when you walk into a place specifically to insult people and shove your opinion you know the people there will disagree with, you can't honestly say you've literally done nothing any any concern in your direction is 100% unfounded.

I mean haven't you heard? Justifying what you say with "It's just my opinion and I can say it" is basically saying "The most compelling part of what I'm saying is that it's not illegal to say". While it isn't good on our part to respond to the needless hostility and obvious fishing for reactions, that really doesn't mean we have to greet people like that with open arms.

We'd really be best off ignoring them.

Onto important things, wow @ OblivionWolf . That's definitely a jump by the looks of it. Maybe because Bossley is so slow and small, he has to use those four platforms to move around.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Well, I'm slightly sadistic/cruel and emotionless, and am sociopathic, unsocial (aside from here), cynical, condescending, and dour. Which is similar to what Ridley is like (sort of).

Does anyone else share these characteristics with Ridley/me?

Unfortunately, yeah. I can share them characteristics from time to time. :\ Minus the emotionless part or being condescending, unless it's to someone who really deserves it maybe. lol

Ridley needs more of a part in metroid other than just a boss, I know he does have an impact, but it would be nice to see him constantly through out the game. I don't include metroid other M because it wasn't full ridley until the final battle.

Well Prime and Prime 3 did kind of a good job at that, like spotting Ridley in the Phendrana Drifts after your first visit there, or that little morph ball tunnel fight with him on Norion. Could always have more things like that that demonstrate his persistence (without it being a boss fight) and where he feels or is shown as more than just another random boss that gets in your way.

They could always think of ways to establish him as more of a threat that doesn't cause controversy like the infamous Other M cutscene too I guess...

EDIT: Actually I may as well ask, what IS the general consensus here in regards of Super Metroid and Zero Mission? Which ones you guys feel is better?

As a whole I would have to say Super Metroid, but Zero Mission probably offers more in terms of replayability (sequence breaking, etc).

Is Andrea becoming this thread's personal Morbid all of the sudden?

She has always been.

Found this on another forum.

Needs more K. Rool on there, and maybe Wolf or Snake too, but other than that pretty solid.

Ok, not even a cat gif can save this thread right now. I'm just gonna abandon this thread until like, tomorrow or something.

Is that from Robocop 3?

 

[The King of Skulls]

I'm just gonna quote this part for the sake of brevity...

My honest to goodness question is this:

Let's say this thing plays out and it turns out Ridley is a boss. All the shadow comparing, the choices to interpret Sakurai's quotes to support your own viewpoint rather than their obvious implication, believing Sakurai is playing some multi-year mind-game with fans, all of these things... will, at that point, you be willing to admit that you (or anyone in this thread, really) might have been seeing things that weren't there?

I'd gladly eat my humble pie and state that, hey, I was wrong, I saw rats in the walls when in actuality it was some lovecraftian being of the outer realms nothing.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Here is what I see as the jump. Slowed down.

HOLY ****!

Doesn't he do something similar earlier? He could just fly upward.

AND FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THINGS GOOD. LET ZIPZO HAVE HIS OPINION.

I'm gonna start infracting if I see more people attacking him.

 

[Kalimdori]

I'm just gonna quote this part for the sake of brevity...

My honest to goodness questions is this:

Let's say this thing plays out and it turns out Ridley is a boss. All the shadow comparing, the choices to interpret Sakurai's quotes to support your own viewpoint rather than their obvious implication, believing Sakurai is playing some multi-year mind-game with fans, all of these things... will, at that point, you be willing to admit that you (or anyone in this thread, really) might have been seeing things that weren't there?

Depends on what things your talking about.

Some of the size quotes we have tried to tie in with Ridley, yes.

The actual Pyrosphere quote? No. Every other character other then Toon Link and Palutena was given a role in the game when they were mentioned/shown. Ridley was not. There was no reason to leave this ambiguous. If Ridley is a boss, Sakurai should have flat out said it right there. Showing Ridley's shadow instead of his full model/gameplay was even worse, and again, illogical.

And the shadow comparisons? Nuh uh. This is something we can prove, Ridley is small in this game compared to his other appearances. If that Ridley is a boss hazard, then I will be furious that Sakurai made him playable size and still kept him as a boss hazard.

As for Sakurai playing mind games, he's already done that with other characters in the game. If we were wrong about this his actions made no sense, but I will admit to being wrong about that as well..

 

[UltimateWario]

You know, I've yet to see anyone color in Ridley's shadow in to show what kind of position they think he's in?

Finding out exactly what he looks like when he's "jumping" might give us a little more info as to his role. Admittedly, it's hard telling what goes where in that shadow.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Guys. I dont think we should worry about Ridley being a stage boss. Nintendo has already done this. Same stage. Same set up.

Dead or Alive Dimensions. Pyrosphere. Lava. Other M ridley flying around grabbing people.

Would Sakurai really just copy this again? Naw...he's not that bad.

Plus, Sakurai has said Pyrosphere has a Final destination mode with no hazards. In the photo for this, the lava is sealed off. The hole in the wall remains.

These two photos below are from Pyrosphere on the 3DS for Dead or alive Dimensions.

Yeah, about that...

Most likely, they just hadn't finished the FD version in time for the Direct.

This has no bearing on my opinion of Ridley's fate. We still don't know what the purple thingies do.

If any conviction of mine has been shaken, it's my faith in the lava hazard, nothing else.

 

[darksamus77]

Here is what I see as the jump. Slowed down.

RIDLEY'S GOT HOPS.

 

[majora_787]

That's not TECHNICALLY true. There is one way our shadow comparisons could mean literally nothing.

All that has to happen is Ridley has to follow 100% different lighting rules from other characters on the same stage. If he is "the exception", then yes. Our shadow comparisons can definitely be way off. But really, it's way easier to argue that Ridley is small than it is to argue that Ridley somehow just has his own lighting physics.

 

[AndreaAC]

I tried to, but I'm not going to sit here and repeat myself.

Over in the Medusa thread, someone had mentioned something about Medusa being a reskin of an assist trophy, and that made me laugh. Is this the part where Andrea draws Roidley trying to be a Nintendog?

Ridley: "A dog is way more intelligent than him. So I doubt he can be one."

Roidley: "Whee! Smile, big bro?"

Ridley: "-sigh- this is going to be a long day...and....No."

 

[UltimateWario]

Could always have more things like that that demonstrate his persistence (without it being a boss fight) and where he feels or is shown as more than just another random boss that gets in your way.

Somebody dig up that "Ridley: The Game" idea I had a while back. I'm proud of it.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

Actually, the FD version of pyrosphere still help us, Why? Because the hole in the background is still there, looking at the other FD version of other stages, it seems they really make sure no one would intervene other than the characters, if ridley is the hazard then they would probably seal those holes in the FD pyrosphere, unless Bossley enters in a different way

 

[Kalimdori]

That's not TECHNICALLY true. There is one way our shadow comparisons could mean literally nothing.

All that has to happen is Ridley has to follow 100% different lighting rules from other characters on the same stage. If he is "the exception", then yes. Our shadow comparisons can definitely be way off. But really, it's way easier to argue that Ridley is small than it is to argue that Ridley somehow just has his own lighting physics.

Ridley having different lighting physics doesn't make any sense either. It would be utterly pointless for him to have different lighting then the rest of the things on the stage.

 

[Snagrio]

I just realized, there a simplified term used for for hazard Ridley, Hazardley, but we haven't got one for playable Ridley.

Um, Playdley? Plidley?

 

[majora_787]

Ridley having different lighting physics doesn't make any sense either. It would be utterly pointless for him to have different lighting then the rest of the things on the stage.

Exactly. But that would really be the only way for our shadow comparisons to actually be legitimately off. Assuming Ridley DOES use the same lighting physics?

- We can compare Ridley's shadow to Pikachu because the angle is unchanging in the Direct.
- We can compare Pikachu to Bowser because they've been seen near each other in the same picture. So that's not particularly difficult.
- We have a very nice picture of Bowser in the air on Pyrosphere that also shows the shadow he projects.
- Then we wrap this ALL back around and- Huh. Bowser's shadow on Pyrosphere is just SLIGHTLY smaller than Ridley's, and that's mainly because of wingspan. Lookit that.

Not only that but thanks to Pikachu's VERY distinct walking animations between his run, full walk, half walk, and slow walk? We can tell that RIdley flying is just BARELY slower than Pikachu's halfwalk.

Seriously guys, try this out yourself. Try to win a fight as Pikachu by only moving at the half-walk with Pikachu's weird two-foot hop animation while they run at full speed and jump all around you. It won't be pretty.

And really all of that COMBINED with Pyrosphere just being gigantic (conveniently the size of the Brawl Ridley boss arena, possibly even slightly larger) just makes it a mess of things that support Ridley either not being a boss, or it not being a very pleasant boss.

EDIT: And now we have actual Ridley JUMPING in that picture, not even maintaining nine straight seconds of even flight. Wow. @ OblivionWolf , with that jump in mind, how much air time would you say that takes off the supposed "nine seconds" of RIdley's air time? I'm curious.

 

[GraveEclipse567]

Wasn't it said that Ridley doesn't grab Pikachu 100 or so pages back?

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I just realized, there a simplified term used for for hazard Ridley, Hazardley, but we haven't got one for playable Ridley.

Um, Playdley? Plidley?

I've been calling him Playabley for a while.

 

[JaidynReiman]

RIDLEY'S GOT HOPS.

That basically seals the deal. I never noticed Ridley "hopping" there. Bosses just DON'T DO THAT. Ugh.

Wasn't it said that Ridley doesn't grab Pikachu 100 or so pages back?

Yeah, Ridley apparently grabs Pikachu, and Pikachu escapes Ridley's grasp quite quickly, too, probably because Pikachu doesn't attack Ridley. The only thing AGAINST Ridley being playable is he can grab characters while in the air, which is a unique mechanic.

That said, DK can grab characters and run off with them. I don't see why Ridley can't have a unique grab mechanic either. Heck, he never grabbed anyone in Brawl, did he? Except for Samus in the CUTSCENE, but in the boss battle itself he didn't grab anyone at all.

 

[majora_787]

It really doesn't matter if Ridley grabs Pikachu or not. Even without that disputable claim, we have an idea of his size, his speed, the scale of the arena, and the fact that he jumps cuts that "infinite flight" notion and basically shows that this Ridley does indeed most likely not "fly forever". Which is a thing a boss would DEFINITELY be allowed to do.

EDIT: We should stop treating unique mechanics as marks against characters. That's not a very good mindset to have.

 

[Snagrio]

Wasn't it said that Ridley doesn't grab Pikachu 100 or so pages back?

I honestly have no idea anymore. We can't seem to definitively decide on whether Ridley actually grabbed Pikachu or not, or at least that's what it sounds like to me.

 

[Meandpikachu]

http://goanimate.com/videos/0PgMeEONRe7M

 

[UltimateWario]

Somebody dig up that "Ridley: The Game" idea I had a while back. I'm proud of it.

You're all scrubs, I found it myself.

Samus's ship is forced out of hyper-space travel by a strange jamming signal. As it emerges, near a seemingly-lifeless planet, the ship is attacked by the now-fully-regenerated (and more powerful than ever) Ridley and pulled from orbit. Samus is heavily antagonized by Ridley the entire game, constantly being thrown into life-or-death situations by her scaly nemesis. The game builds suspense and, at times, even fear as Ridley taunts you, places traps, and uses Samus's and the player's instincts against them (leading you into traps using upgrades, etc.).

As you explore the planet further, you discover that it, as many other planets, was an outpost for the Chozo: more specifically, a warlike offshoot of the culture (similar to Tallon IV's "one with nature" tribe) dedicated to spreading peace and knowledge through the domination of violent and ignorant races. The further you go, the more dangerous Ridley seems to get, until you learn that you're not the only one gaining power through Chozo artifacts.

The final boss of the game would be Varia Ridley, who has integrated Chozo technology into his dying body, giving him new life and power that rivals or even surpasses Samus herself. We learn that, at some point, the Space Pirates either allied themselves with the Chozo or are, in fact, related to them somehow (there are more similarities than you'd think) and that the Chozo tribe that lived on this planet was working directly with the Space Pirates (we see the decline of Space Pirates from a helpful, industrious race into a violent, hateful people bent on domination and subjugation of other species through scans and the like).

Bonus points if we find the bones/carcasses of other "Ridleys", long-dead members of his now-singular species.