Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Epsilon52]

i made a size comparison chart today .

 

[Swamp Sensei]

i made a size comparison chart today .

Okay, I'm no Ridley size specialist but a lot of that looks way off.

Particularly the 3D Models.

 

[Epsilon52]

Go back and look at Metroid Prime 3, the smash melee opening, and metroid prime 1. I cut each one out at scaled beside the samus in the scene with a constant 6'3" height for samus.

 

[OblivionWolf]

Exactly. But that would really be the only way for our shadow comparisons to actually be legitimately off. Assuming Ridley DOES use the same lighting physics?

- We can compare Ridley's shadow to Pikachu because the angle is unchanging in the Direct.
- We can compare Pikachu to Bowser because they've been seen near each other in the same picture. So that's not particularly difficult.
- We have a very nice picture of Bowser in the air on Pyrosphere that also shows the shadow he projects.
- Then we wrap this ALL back around and- Huh. Bowser's shadow on Pyrosphere is just SLIGHTLY smaller than Ridley's, and that's mainly because of wingspan. Lookit that.

Not only that but thanks to Pikachu's VERY distinct walking animations between his run, full walk, half walk, and slow walk? We can tell that RIdley flying is just BARELY slower than Pikachu's halfwalk.

Seriously guys, try this out yourself. Try to win a fight as Pikachu by only moving at the half-walk with Pikachu's weird two-foot hop animation while they run at full speed and jump all around you. It won't be pretty.

And really all of that COMBINED with Pyrosphere just being gigantic (conveniently the size of the Brawl Ridley boss arena, possibly even slightly larger) just makes it a mess of things that support Ridley either not being a boss, or it not being a very pleasant boss.

EDIT: And now we have actual Ridley JUMPING in that picture, not even maintaining nine straight seconds of even flight. Wow. @ OblivionWolf , with that jump in mind, how much air time would you say that takes off the supposed "nine seconds" of RIdley's air time? I'm curious.

Here lets take a look. So this clip is 9 seconds you say? xD I don't wanna count cause I don't wanna count too fast or too slow.

http://gfycat.com/SentimentalBronzeIndianrhinoceros#

 

[JaidynReiman]

It really doesn't matter if Ridley grabs Pikachu or not. Even without that disputable claim, we have an idea of his size, his speed, the scale of the arena, and the fact that he jumps cuts that "infinite flight" notion and basically shows that this Ridley does indeed most likely "fly forever". Which is a thing a boss would DEFINITELY be allowed to do.

EDIT: We should stop treating unique mechanics as marks against characters. That's not a very good mindset to have.

Did you mean "doesn't" fly forever? That part really confused me.

Either way, yeah, we can clearly see Ridley jump, and he should have no reason to jump at all (if he's a boss).

 

[I Bet You Can]

Bam, Ridley in Smash. Or at least what he would be like, and I'm fine with it. :D

 

[majora_787]

Using my own clock as a counter, it's more like 6-7 seconds of air time from when he comes on camera to when he goes off to jump. So.

 

[Xenorange]

Honestly, I don't think it's impossible for Ridley as a character, to be a playable character, so size comparisons and what not are irrelevant to me, though interesting

The reason I believe he isn't playable is because I think fan desire has driven this thread more than Sakurai created any lead.



The only arguments I see are for discrediting reasons for why he couldn't be playable.

I see a non-existent amount of arguments pointing to clear evidence of the likelihood of his inclusion.

True, but you could say that about any un announced newcomer. Sakurai has at least referenced Ridley

 

[SchAlternate]

http://goanimate.com/videos/0PgMeEONRe7M

...

What exactly did I just watch?

EDIT: ROFLMAO, I JUST BECAME THE 900TH POST, SUCKERS!!

 

[Epsilon52]

Here is a newer version with Other M Ridley fixed.

 

[SchAlternate]

True, but you could say that about any un announced newcomer. Sakurai has at least referenced Ridley

Happy 900th page.

EDIT: WELL, NEVERMIND, I GET TO KEEP IT.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Using my own clock as a counter, it's more like 6-7 seconds of air time from when he comes on camera to when he goes off to jump. So.

I'm wondering, how long can Peach stay hovering? Either way, 6-7 seconds of hover time isn't all that much.

 

[UltimateWario]

Bam, Ridley in Smash. Or at least what he would be like, and I'm fine with it. :D

That sprite is fantastic. Source?

I'm wondering, how long can Peach stay hovering? Either way, 6-7 seconds of hover time isn't all that much.

6-7 seconds, in Smash time, is an eternity. Peach can only float for 2.5 seconds in Brawl.

That said, Ridley having a mechanic where he can stay airborne for an extended period of time certainly isn't out of the question, especially if he's going to be grabbing people up there.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

Page 900, Have there been bigger threads than this one?

 

[Khoru]

is it possible that the slowed-down gif of ridley jumping is instead him moving back towards the right?

 

[AbioFlesh]

i made a size comparison chart today .

A bit off topic but I can't help but think of Heavy Lobster when looking at Zero Mission Meta Ridley.

 

[I Bet You Can]

That sprite is fantastic. Source?

Here ya go! http://67.227.255.239/forum/showthread.php?p=99978071
Oh I realize you actually want the sprite. Oops sorry I don't know where the sprite came from.

 

[AndreaAC]

I almost forgot about this page...whee! 900!

Ridley stuff...

 

[SchAlternate]

I'm wondering, how long can Peach stay hovering? Either way, 6-7 seconds of hover time isn't all that much.

It takes about 5 seconds for Roy to charge a Flare Blade to its maximum capacity before exploding.

So it is a lot. Although Ridley possibly stays in the air for a long time as its gimmick.

 

[Meandpikachu]

Bam, Ridley in Smash. Or at least what he would be like, and I'm fine with it. :D

I will love this size in the real life

 

[JaidynReiman]

It takes about 5 seconds for Roy to charge a Flare Blade to its maximum capacity before exploding.

So it is a lot. Although Ridley possibly stays in the air for a long time as its gimmick.

Ridley having high air time would make sense for him, but naturally his regular movement speed is slow. And ironically, that's exactly how Sakurai described making Ridley playable post-Brawl "he'd probably be a little slow; would that be ok?"

 

[SchAlternate]

Here ya go! http://67.227.255.239/forum/showthread.php?p=99978071

Ah, I had a feeling Neorice did that. It totally looks like something he'd do.

 

[majora_787]

is it possible that the slowed-down gif of ridley jumping is instead him moving back towards the right?

No. You can tell comparing when he moves left and when he moves right that based on his shadow, he is changing elevation as he moves back to the right. He is much farther toward the background, or higher in the air on his way back toward the right.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Thing is, if Ridley is just a boss hazard, Sakurai's actions with him are illogical. What sense is there of hyping up a boss hazard, a gimmick to something that has always been present in Smash Bros? Especially when it's a character that is highly requested in the Smash community to be playable? That is parallel to hyping up Mewtwo as a Master Ball Pokemon, as that is also a gimmick to an already existing feature.

You have my attention.

10 months ago, we received confirmation that the Pyrosphere would appear as a stage. In addition to this, we were hinted that an enemy from Samus's past (Samus's trauma in the Japanese version, confirming it to be Ridley) could appear at any second. Ridley was not mentioned by name, nor was he was confirmed as to what role he would play, although the text combined with the picture suggests that he could be a stage boss. A few months later, we got a picture of Palutena's temple, with a full picture of Palutena's statue in the background. The quote was that the Goddess of Light would be watching over the battlefield. Palutena was not mentioned by name, nor was she confirmed as to what role he would play, although the text combined with the picture suggests that she would merely be a statue.

The zombie Palutena trophy seemed to be a direct hint at her play-ability, as far as I remember the reaction. The Goddess of Light comment doesn't seem mystical, just that she's there in the form of a big statue, so she's figuratively watching the battle. I think this is a matter of dissecting the wrong statement. Some things statements can seem a bit loaded, others not so much.

Fast forward to the Direct: We were shown, at the end of the Yellow Devil section, we were tease with Ridley's shadow, with the quote of "Boss characters can appear on other stages, not just this one." Ridley confirmed to be a boss, right? Well, later, in the trophy section, we were teased with a picture of Pseudo Palutena. Soooo....... Palutena confirmed to be a statue?

Then it comes to the shadow itself. This is NOT as irrelevant as people try to claim. Why? Because A) We can directly correlate what size he is in the Direct (Which is easily the smallest he's ever been, excluding the original Metroid) and B) we can see how he moves and how his animations work, as they follow the actions of the character, we have seen this from previous footage of the Pyrosphere. Well, of course, his boss battle couldn't be done yet, right? That is possible, sure, although extremely unlikely. We were shown the Pyrosphere 8 months before the Direct, it does not take that long to program a boss fight to the point that he can only fly slowly in a straight line and hover. And there is no excuse for him being small, Ridley in Brawl was enormous, getting shrunk down to this size and being stuck as a stage boss is a painful demotion.

And even IF that is a poorly designed boss, we still have the Alfonzo meme. But I don't think I need to explain that.

Those are my arguments. If you wish to discuss, please do. I enjoy a good debate.

I do think it's strange that we didn't get the Pyrosphere in the demo, but it's just as easy for me to simply infer that they haven't fully ironed out the kinks in how you interact with Ridley in the stage (or how Ridley interacts with you), and they didn't want to show Pyrosphere before they had that experience fully exacted.

As for his size, this is the one point I consider to be insightful. HOWEVER...

Notice how (both in the video and in this picture for those who don't want to go see it), Pikachu lacks any kind of shadow. It's not as though he is angled to the stage in a way that he should lack one, he simply just doesn't have one where he should.

Do you know what this means? This means there's an inconsistency. You are sizing Ridley based on his Shadow, when his shadow may not even be consistent to his actual in-game size (as a boss). Clearly something is amiss in putting everything on this shadow.

You catch a brief glimpse of the texture on his (presumably) left wing, for posterity, but maybe this is a tiny fraction of the very edge of his wing? Maybe he's actually huge, and he's much higher up, forcing the shadow to be smaller than his actual size.

Furthermore, just the fact he is in the air, actually, is enough to justify that his shadow does not depict his actual size. There are a variety of factors that go in to this such as angle of the light source, the subjects distance to the slight source, and the intensity of the light source as well, but compare these.

Here we see a shadow somewhat accurately depicting the size of a human male while walking. We can assume the light source is casting on him from a (relative to the plane of earth where the human is) around a 45 degree angle. Essentially not too high up, and not too low to the horizon. The man is literally in direct contact with his shadow, as it is being cast directly under him. The frame of reference is clear, as the man is casting his shadow on a surface literally within reachable range.

This is what happens when you shine light on something that is several meters above ground at different variations...

Since Ridley's shadow is visible we can conclude that he is not a definitive example of the left bird, but you can use both to reference something very important...the shadow becomes compacted further, the higher up the target source of the shadow is from the display of its shadow.

This potentially means that depictions of his size based literally on the size of the shadow could essentially be completely unfounded and unscientific, rendering your assumptions based on the "weirdness" of his potentially small size sort of not completely bulletproof.

Putting Zipzo on ignore, this is the 3rd thread Zipzo's been aggravating on.

If you really want to just put your fingers in your ears, go ahead.

It's not that Zipzo doesn't get to have an opinion. It's just that when you walk into a place specifically to insult people and shove your opinion you know the people there will disagree with, you can't honestly say you've literally done nothing any any concern in your direction is 100% unfounded.

I mean haven't you heard? Justifying what you say with "It's just my opinion and I can say it" is basically saying "The most compelling part of what I'm saying is that it's not illegal to say". While it isn't good on our part to respond to the needless hostility and obvious fishing for reactions, that really doesn't mean we have to greet people like that with open arms.

We'd really be best off ignoring them.

And the same goes for you.

I'm not insulting anybody. If anything I'm the one sort of being ganged up on. It's not like I didn't expect it, I just hoped you'd do it civilly.

 

[Xenorange]

It takes about 5 seconds for Roy to charge a Flare Blade to its maximum capacity before exploding.

So it is a lot. Although Ridley possibly stays in the air for a long time as its gimmick.

Yeah, Ridley might just have godlike horizontal recovery.

 

[UltimateWario]

Any idea what that extra second or so of "bonus footage" was?

Y'know, the part of it where it looks super awkward and clearly wasn't part of the presentation?

 

[AndreaAC]

I found that Ridley sprite on tumblr. It's so DAMN pretty...

 

[AbioFlesh]

View attachment 16335
I found that Ridley sprite on tumblr

Looks like something that would come from the Mario and Luigi RPG series.

 

[Xenorange]

You have my attention.



The zombie Palutena trophy seemed to be a direct hint at her play-ability, as far as I remember the reaction. The Goddess of Light comment doesn't seem mystical, just that she's there in the form of a big statue, so she's figuratively watching the battle. I think this is a matter of dissecting the wrong statement. Some things statements can seem a bit loaded, others not so much.



I do think it's strange that we didn't get the Pyrosphere in the demo, but it's just as easy for me to simply infer that they haven't fully ironed out the kinks in how you interact with Ridley in the stage (or how Ridley interacts with you), and they didn't want to show Pyrosphere before they had that experience fully exacted.

As for his size, this is the one point I consider to be insightful. HOWEVER...

Notice how (both in the video and in this picture for those who don't want to go see it), Pikachu lacks any kind of shadow. It's not as though he is angled to the stage in a way that he should lack one, he simply just doesn't have one where he should.

Do you know what this means? This means there's an inconsistency. You are sizing Ridley based on his Shadow, when his shadow may not even be consistent to his actual in-game size (as a boss). Clearly something is amiss in putting everything on this shadow.

You catch a brief glimpse of the texture on his (presumably) left wing, for posterity, but maybe this is a tiny fraction of the very edge of his wing? Maybe he's actually huge, and he's much higher up, forcing the shadow to be smaller than his actual size.

Furthermore, just the fact he is in the air, actually, is enough to justify that his shadow does not depict his actual size. There are a variety of factors that go in to this such as angle of the light source, the subjects distance to the slight source, and the intensity of the light source as well, but compare these.

Here we see a shadow somewhat accurately depicting the size of a human male while walking. We can assume the light source is casting on him from a (relative to the plane of earth where the human is) around a 45 degree angle. Essentially not too high up, and not too low to the horizon. The man is literally in direct contact with his shadow, as it is being cast directly under him. The frame of reference is clear, as the man is casting his shadow on a surface literally within reachable range.

This is what happens when you shine light on something that is several meters above ground at different variations...

Since Ridley's shadow is visible we can conclude that he is not a definitive example of the left bird, but you can use both to reference something very important...the shadow becomes compacted further, the higher up the target source of the shadow is from the display of its shadow.

This potentially means that depictions of his size based literally on the size of the shadow could essentially be completely unfounded and unscientific, rendering your assumptions based on the "weirdness" of his potentially small size sort of not completely bulletproof.

If you really want to just put your fingers in your ears, go ahead.


And the same goes for you.

I'm not insulting anybody. If anything I'm the one sort of being ganged up on. It's not like I didn't expect it, I just hoped you'd do it civilly.

If he's "much higher up" then how did he grab the pikamiester?

 

[Morbi]

Ridley is 900 times more likely than he was precisely one year ago. Interesting.

 

[majora_787]

Yeah, Ridley might just have godlike horizontal recovery.

The issue with that is, Ridley is large for a character and is moving pretty slowly in a straight horizontal line. That's good for recovery... if nobody is edgeguarding you. Though he could always jump out of it. It would just be a mess to use that hovering thing at all to recover. It could end badly really quickly.

 

[Epsilon52]

Since Ridley's shadow is visible we can conclude that he is not a definitive example of the left bird, but you can use both to reference something very important...the shadow becomes compacted further, the higher up the target source of the shadow is from the display of its shadow.

This potentially means that depictions of his size based literally on the size of the shadow could essentially be completely unfounded and unscientific, rendering your assumptions based on the "weirdness" of his potentially small size sort of not completely bulletproof.

If you really want to just put your fingers in your ears, go ahead.


And the same goes for you.

I'm not insulting anybody. If anything I'm the one sort of being ganged up on. It's not like I didn't expect it, I just hoped you'd do it civilly.

We need info on source of light and the angle before we can deduce its size using HIgh/Low bird.

 

[Deleted member]

Page 900, Have there been bigger threads than this one?

Yes, in fact the LoL thread, the old P:M thread and the thread that originally discussed Smash 4 when it was first announced dwarf this thread by a notable margin.

The LoL thread is at 1553 pages and the P:M discussion thread was at 2308 pages before they locked it and opened another one. The original Smash Wii U discussion/speculation thread before we had info was standing at a huge 2970 pages and the Decisive Gaming Social Thread is at around 1100 or so.

Looks like the Ridley Thread isn't TOO BIG yet.

 

[UltimateWario]

The issue with that is, Ridley is large for a character and is moving pretty slowly in a straight horizontal line. That's good for recovery... if nobody is edgeguarding you. Though he could always jump out of it. It would just be a mess to use that hovering thing at all to recover. It could end badly really quickly.

Exactly. Floating slowly toward the stage like that is basically saying "SOMEBODY PLEASE METEOR ME".

 

[majora_787]

Are we trying to use real world light physics on a video game where all characters have static shadows when they are in the air?

 

[Weeman]

Ridley deconfirmed

http://goanimate.com/videos/0PgMeEONRe7M

This is the best thing

 

[Morbi]

Yes, in fact the LoL thread, the old P:M thread and the thread that originally discussed Smash 4 when it was first announced dwarf this thread by a notable margin.

The LoL thread is at 1553 pages and the P:M discussion thread was at 2308 pages before they locked it and opened another one. The original Smash Wii U discussion/speculation thread before we had info was standing at a huge 2970 pages and the Decisive Gaming Social Thread is at around 1100 or so.

Looks like the Ridley Thread isn't TOO BIG yet.

I feel as though we are doing alright for a character that has yet to be announced. However; we would not want to get too big, now would we? Is that not our greatest fear? For Sakurai to come out and assert that Ridley is too big, the too bigots were correct the entire time... that would certainly incite some despondence.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

One can't really deduce anything with the shadow. I've been saying that forever.

Because there are too many variables we don't know but need.

Regardless, the only thing that strikes me as notable is the "jump."

 

[Anomilus]

Indeed, shadows in this game do not scale with height. They are static regardless of vertical level.



...And a serious shame. I'm always not around when these kind of ugly arguments ignite. You people need better mediators to be around.

Darn certain some particular mods don't mediate volatile situations all that well outside of sheer threats. Indeed that's something about moderator behavior that gets under my own skin.

 

[SchAlternate]

Ridley deconfirmed
This is the best thing

If I had any knowledge on video editing, I'd replace Rick's face with Ridley's and post the video once Ridley is confirmed.