Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Terrazi Terrajin]

"Boss characters make appearances in other stages, not just this one"

Bowser is a 'boss' character, and he's going to technically appear on all of them.

 

[ddd87]

I will give you that. If it weren't for doubters popping in here asking questions, this thread wouldn't be half the size it is now.

It would be nice if the doubters put an effort and challenged the evidences themselves and not just acuse people of being in denial for a change. Now that would be a nice exercise.

 

[Anomilus]

EDIT - OH BLAST IT...

I just saw that somebody posted that gif. I was gonna post it several minutes ahead, but I was taking my sweet time making sure somebody else didn't post it already. Stoopid Irony!

 

[Deleted member]

Well this likely gives an explanation as to why we didn't see Ridley this E3...

Spoiler

I regret to inform you that you've been Ninja'd, very very hard.

 

[Malkior7]

OR GOOD NEWS

Remember we said thats not the final destination version because of the lava flowing.

Sooooo the shadow footage may have really ben on the final destination version after all.

And the final destination version is smaller than the non final version, and the non final version is smaller than the real one.

So ridley may be even smaller than i calculated with my shadow.

EDIT: nvm i just checked its still correct on the normal one but does not change anything anyway.

You know when I rewatched that video I became curious as to what his shadow was doing at the very last second of the vid couldn't get an accurate pause so it's hard to tell

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

You know when I rewatched that video I became curious as to what his shadow was doing at the very last second of the vid couldn't get an accurate pause so it's hard to tell

Oh that would be him jumping we found that already.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

THIS.

I already said that I think he's playable but being very doubtful compared to before E3. You just cannot prove at 100% I tried it's impossible because of all those double meaning evidences. In fact, the base is 50/50 and it really sounds like Sakurai wanted to keep it that way. What is really weird is that he still want that after E3 which basically puts us in the dark. No matter on which side you are there's no way that you can be sure because it was organised that both sides are equals and the only thing that sets them apart is speculation which is very subjective.

The question that would answer everything that we cannot know until the 50/50 is broken is why doing this in the first place? This is all we have to argue but we just can't know until Sakurai says it clearly which didn't happen at E3 so when do you think it will happen? POTD? Direct? After release? Basically, "at any seconds"? That quote may have to do with this because it's that mysterious...

The thing, I don't really think it's 50/50. In fact, a huge part of the "evidence" you guys put stock in, is assuming that Sakurai is purposefully being misleading over the boss hazard tease in the direct, and there's literally nothing to suggest that he's being misleading in the sense that he'll be playable.

I think that's a pretty weak foundation for believing it could go either way.

While I understand the thirst for arguments aside from "You're in denial", there's so very little for you to work with that it makes arguing with your camp feel a bit...imaginative, rather than soiled in hard evidence. You know?

 

[SchAlternate]

The thing, I don't really think it's 50/50. In fact, a huge part of the "evidence" you guys put stock in, is assuming that Sakurai is purposefully being misleading over the boss hazard tease in the direct, and there's literally nothing to suggest that he's being misleading in the sense that he'll be playable.

I think that's a pretty weak foundation for believing it could go either way.

While I understand the thirst for arguments aside from "You're in denial", there's so very little for you to work with that it makes arguing with your camp feel a bit...imaginative, rather than soiled in hard evidence. You know?

Well, it's either us saying he's teasing Ridley's possible playable appearance or detractors saying he's incompetent enough to take over 8 months to make a mere stage hazard and "show" it in an incomplete state.

Pick your poison.

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

Speaking of that shadow video, why doesn't pikachu cast any kind of shadow at all?

 

[Reila]

Found this on another forum.

This is the best thing since the last best thing ever.

Edit: My post makes no sense whatsoever.

 

[Malkior7]

Speaking of that shadow video, why doesn't pikachu cast any kind of shadow at all?

I can only guess that Pikachu is small enough that it's shadow isn't big enough to go be visible

 

[Terrazi Terrajin]

I can only guess that Pikachu is small enough that it's shadow isn't big enough to go be visible

So what you're saying is Ridley is the size of the spaceship that attacked earth in Independence Day?

 

[AbioFlesh]

The thing, I don't really think it's 50/50. In fact, a huge part of the "evidence" you guys put stock in, is assuming that Sakurai is purposefully being misleading over the boss hazard tease in the direct, and there's literally nothing to suggest that he's being misleading in the sense that he'll be playable.

I think that's a pretty weak foundation for believing it could go either way.

While I understand the thirst for arguments aside from "You're in denial", there's so very little for you to work with that it makes arguing with your camp feel a bit...imaginative, rather than soiled in hard evidence. You know?

Personally I find this forum a fun lil' place for Ripley fans to communicate, speculate, share fake outs and artwork.

I'm not really really here to start arguments, but may I ask: Why do you even bother or care?

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Well, it's either us saying he's teasing Ridley's possible playable appearance or detractors saying he's incompetent enough to take over 8 months to make a mere stage hazard and "show" it in an incomplete state.

Pick your poison.

It's completely unreasonable to suggest that maybe he just wants to create excitement for Ridley being a boss at the at the same level of presence as the yellow devil?

Honestly that'd be pretty cool if while fighting each other you are dealing with the constant attacks of Ridley. Maybe that's what he intended to tease? I mean it's more rooted in fact that's what he meant to tease than it is to assume something entirely presumptuous...

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

ITS TIME FOR A REPOST

Part 1

Spoiler

Alright this is the biggest thing I have ever posted I really hope I did well

first off I like to thank lackadaisyalex for this it does almost all of the arguments' part's for me

but I will be doing some of the arguments anyway

now then

it all started with this

after the yellow devil Ridley gets shown

but this does not mean that Ridley is not playable and I will show you why and then the after this will be the best part

toon link survived despite his cameo appearance

Spoiler

well first off most of us thought toon link was kicked because of this happening

he was a stage cameo instead of playable we all thought because of that he was doomed to come back.

"but..."
on 9/26 2013
http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/toon_link.html
Wait wait wait, but that's impossible he was a cameo before how did toon link survived. Well turns out sakurai had something prepared

Alfonzo is taking toon Links place when he is being played as

So what does this have to do with Ridley well it's this.

Well sakurai called this stage the pyrosphere.

but there's something that's plausible it's this

pyrosphere is NOT the correct name for where you fight Ridley
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Geothermal_Power_Plant
that's the correct name

pyrosphere is the name of the fire world in other m not the room. This may be a scrolling room some of the stages already confirmed and some of the past ones, For example this one

in this quote looks suspicious

Hmmm now that's suspicious.

Now where I'm going is this.

the Goyagma

and the Vorash

(This user of the videos is not me before you ask.)

They could be boss hazards and Ridley as well if this is a scrolling stage.

In other words the Goyagma, and Vorash, maybe bosses, but when Ridley, is being played as Ridley may be simply turned off

which brings the next thing

Both boss hazard and playable

Spoiler

We know this is Ridley.

And could be a hazard, but it does not roll out playable if he was boss and here's why.

remember this fight on Kirby air ride city trial.

Yea he's a boss in city trial

'But look...'

Start at 2:19ish

That's playable Dedede also on city trial.

So Dedede is both playable, and a boss, on city trial.

So going back the stage thing that's how I think Ridley. Simply disable will work when he's in the arena if a scrolling stage.

OK next up is

Sakurai can have a change of heart

Spoiler

Now what's this has to do with him well its this.

OK what he is saying is Ridley is impossible. But change of heart is very likely.

What it means he thought villager was not suitable for battle.

He had a change of heart obviously.
http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/villager.html

So, he made villager playable.

Now for exhibit B

He claimed that Namco would not get any special treatment. If he said that why did this get added to smash.

And these guys from galaga (which is made by Namco)

the S flag is a proud symbol of Namco and how charizard is holding it. It is probably going to be an assist trophy based item. That is nothing but retro Namco character that the S flag was in probably

And also not to mention this helps pac-man, and that's a Namco character. And, Sakurai probably knows that if he lets pac-man in as playable his game is going to make history

(worlds first game with Mario sonic mega man pac-man all playable in one game)

(I suppose another is the first time ever Ridley is playable in something that's not fan based game if confirmed playable)

and now for the big apple pie


HES WAY TOO BIG YOU FOOLS

Spoiler

This is by far the worst argument in the history of these forms.

EVERYBODY HAS BEN HUGE AND SHRUKEN AND PLAYABLES HAVE BEN SMALLER THAN THEY HAVE BEN NOT PLAYABLE

Let's start with Bowser.

Oh he was this once.

WROOOONG

They did it twice. (Unless the left is fan based ofcoarse.) and that's not the only time he was huge.

So he resize's Bowser All of the time in stuff. (Without any magical stuff he grab's .)

but when playable.

He's smaller.

And this is with a bunch of other character's with shrinkage or growth.

"King k rool"

"Boss"

He's even bigger in this.

But playable.

WTF a toad is half his height.

"Petey pirhana"

But playable.

Luigi is almost as tall as him.

And here's my favorite

"Quenn bee"

"Boss"

But playable

FROM TITAN SIZE TO A TOAD 3/4 HER SIZE WHAT?!?!?!?!

in other words characters get shrunken when playable

And this one i give credit too @ SchAlternate

View attachment 15761
This is ridley possible biggest size and its still very close to playable, and this proves that ridley's size in that shadow footage is smaller than the super metroid but pretty dang close.

and ofcoarse this kills it
http://nintendoeverything.com/super-smash-bros-for-3ds-screenshot-21914/
the quote of this is
This dog is huge… Wait, no, the playable characters are small. The Smash Bros. series doesn’t always stay true to scale

ok that kills the argument CYA
[\spoiler]
link to part 2
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-ridley-for-super-smash-brothers-for-wii-u-3ds-thread.324284/page-637#post-16728288

Part 2 shadow analyze

Part 2 of the shadow analysis: Before we start, I would like to address one more thing out of Part 1:

HE DECONFIRMED RIDLEY!

Spoiler

When the footage was shown in the Yellow Devil section, he never mentioned Ridley as another boss; He only heavily implied so.

He also deconfirms characters without beating around the bush, as with Waluigi, Ashley, Dillon, Wonder Red...

Sakurai:
"We didn’t introduce ALL of the Assist Trophies in the Smash Bros. Direct. Here’s Dillon from Dillon’s Rolling Western!! He may rival Sonic in the art of rolling.
This is his trophy. He may be an animal, and his buckles are definitely on the adorable side, but there’s no denying he looks cool!! His Assist Trophy can even do things like a quick charge."

Sakurai:
"The Wonderful 100!! We also made trophies of some of the other Wonderful Ones."

There's a precedence of deconfirming characters directly. Ridley was not directly deconfirmed, so his chances still remain high.

Anyhow, onto the second part.

HE'S HUGE!

Spoiler

Yeah, about that...

Okay, yeah, it DOES looks huge, but his shadow doesn't cover the central platform with the little pegs there.

Why is that relevant? Well, look at this picture.

His shadow is not as big as the center platform, which means he is smaller than he lets on.

Plus, his wings give off the illusion that his body is enormous.

But if we take some measurements...

We can see that his wingspan far exceeds his body.

And if we exclude the wings of the shadow picture above:

Wow, that's so much smaller.

And another thing:

the shadow does stretch out at points, so its an illusion to make Ridley much larger than he appears to be:

Not only is the shadow much larger, but the bottom is really stretched.

HE'S A BOSS CHARACTER, NOT A PLAYABLE CHARACTER!

Spoiler

Possible, but the exact quote was:
"Boss characters makes appearances in other stages, not just this one."

Why say boss characters?

I mean, these guys are/were bosses in their own games at some point, and they're characters.

Yes, even good ol' DK. So we can't rule out vague diction.

Another point against him being a boss: Did you notice Pikachu actually escapes Ridley?

Now this was a few moments before Ridley started flying again.

Spoiler

So how did Pikachu escape without any struggle? He was definitely not struggling.
According to the wiki on grabs, if your damage is at 0%, you can escape without struggle in about six seconds.

But the absolute weirdest sign is that just before the footage fade out, he may have jumped.
View attachment 12399

Compare with Brawl Ridley(s). Their movement is so smooth and well-telegraphed, much like most bosses in other games.

Compare with shadow footage Ridley. His movement is so jerky, much like how every character throughout the Smash Bros. series moves.

For all we know, that quote could mean anything.

SIZE COMPARION

Spoiler

Alright, let's start with the most important thing in my opinion: his hand and tail.

Pictured: Ridley's hand.

Pictured: Ridley's tail. (Estimated)

Because these shadows are on a wall, the only thing that can distort it is a zoom in effect on the picture. But since the shadows mostly stay true to the size of the characters, these are at least 80% accurate to actual size, in my opinion.

And it took me a while, but I found a another character shadow on the pillar, Donkey Kong.

At 2:29, look at the pillar, slow down the video, and don't blink.

That's my estimate, but I'm probably off on the fill in, so keep that in mind.

Ridley's tail is no where near Donkey Kong's height. It is most likely only 1/2 ish of Donkey Kong's height.

and his hand is only 1/6 of Donkey Kong's height.

Onto the hand!

Picture A: Ridley's size in Other M.

Picture B: angel glory's resized Ridley holding Samus.

Judging by the hand picture, if we increase the size of the hand shadow by a few knuckles, doing so would most likely yield Ridley's size from Picture B.
As for his tail, it's most likely this size:

Left: This is the size of Ridley's tail in Other M as compared to Samus.

Right: This is the estimated size of Ridley's tail in Sm4sh as compared to Pikachu.

Credit to @Dalek_Kolt for this

Assuming the blob above is Pikachu, roughly six Ridley tails can fit inside Pikachu.
Therefore, Ridley's range of sizes are these, hardly boss-sized.

Ridley's largest size:

Ridley's smallest size:

Size comparison with Bigley and Smalley:

Bonus Yellow Devil comparison.

Next up his head:

Spoiler

his head is right there and my estimates are correct by his head size and kirbys shadow (which will be a little lower on this post)
is 2/3 or 1/2 ridleys head

And now the best part of them all: Body comparisons!

Spoiler

Okay, I gathered a few pictures of as many character's shadows as possible. (If you want to help me with this part, you can find me some full shadow pictures of other characters that aren't being covered by other obstructing/obscuring objects.)

As I mentioned earlier, Ridley's wings make him look a lot bigger, so for estimation purposes, I excluded the wings for size comparison. Also keep in mind that these aren't 100% perfect.

Heeeeeere we go

Spoiler

Charizard

Source:

at 2:01

Kirby

Source:

Go to 1:25
(Don't blink and you will see it. This took me many attempts to get this one.)

Zero Suit Samus (And by extension, Samus)

Source:
http://smashbros-miiverse.com/
you will see it under the correct categorys

Greninja

(this one was Really tough)

See Charizard for the source, and go to 1:38.

(With a keen eye, you can see Greninja's shadow)

Rosalina
(This is by far the most useful for arguments, because Rosalina and Bowser are almost the exact same height.)

(yes I know because of how she is its the best I can do)

Rosalina is almost as large as Ridley's whole body!

Source:

Go to 2:18.

(but if you guys/girls not commenced by this see if you can get me a better Rosalina shadow)

Ok Bowser is next

The Next picture is where the shadow is.
(picture by @majora_787)

So, with this now without a further ado. Here is the pin points.

Blue, & Green, = shadow positions.

Red, & Yellow, = Approximate measurement of the shadow over here.

Hehehe look at that "Bowsers shadow is almost as big as Ridleys."

Source:
http://smashbros-miiverse.com/
you will see it under the correct categorys

And going back to Rosalina's shadow.

Like I Said Rosalina, & Bowser Are Almost the same Height

and now the best for last

I did Mother Brain, but I did Ridley's shadow points instead.

(The green dot is on the other size because that's his foot. And since Pikachu is on the other side, I need to use his other foot for reference.)

Wait a Second Ridley shadow is smaller than mother brains

look at these

Ridley has always been bigger than Mother Brain, (Well, except for the NES, but Zero Mission retconned that) so why is Mother Brain's shadow now bigger than Ridley's?

well that's what I got you want more you can help for finding more shadows of other characters or better pictures or mention anything I missed I will post it for a part 3 (sectioned missed arguments)

so what are you thoughts

link to part 1
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...ii-u-3ds-thread.324284/page-636#post-16727842]

 

[Deleted member 245254]

ITS TIME FOR A REPOST

Part 1

Spoiler

Alright this is the biggest thing I have ever posted I really hope I did well

first off I like to thank lackadaisyalex for this it does almost all of the arguments' part's for me

but I will be doing some of the arguments anyway

now then

it all started with this

after the yellow devil Ridley gets shown

but this does not mean that Ridley is not playable and I will show you why and then the after this will be the best part

toon link survived despite his cameo appearance

Spoiler

well first off most of us thought toon link was kicked because of this happening

he was a stage cameo instead of playable we all thought because of that he was doomed to come back.

"but..."
on 9/26 2013
http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/toon_link.html
Wait wait wait, but that's impossible he was a cameo before how did toon link survived. Well turns out sakurai had something prepared

Alfonzo is taking toon Links place when he is being played as

So what does this have to do with Ridley well it's this.

Well sakurai called this stage the pyrosphere.

but there's something that's plausible it's this

pyrosphere is NOT the correct name for where you fight Ridley
http://metroid.wikia.com/wiki/Geothermal_Power_Plant
that's the correct name

pyrosphere is the name of the fire world in other m not the room. This may be a scrolling room some of the stages already confirmed and some of the past ones, For example this one

in this quote looks suspicious

Hmmm now that's suspicious.

Now where I'm going is this.

the Goyagma

and the Vorash

(This user of the videos is not me before you ask.)

They could be boss hazards and Ridley as well if this is a scrolling stage.

In other words the Goyagma, and Vorash, maybe bosses, but when Ridley, is being played as Ridley may be simply turned off

which brings the next thing

Both boss hazard and playable

Spoiler

We know this is Ridley.

And could be a hazard, but it does not roll out playable if he was boss and here's why.

remember this fight on Kirby air ride city trial.

Yea he's a boss in city trial

'But look...'

Start at 2:19ish

That's playable Dedede also on city trial.

So Dedede is both playable, and a boss, on city trial.

So going back the stage thing that's how I think Ridley. Simply disable will work when he's in the arena if a scrolling stage.

OK next up is

Sakurai can have a change of heart

Spoiler

Now what's this has to do with him well its this.

OK what he is saying is Ridley is impossible. But change of heart is very likely.

What it means he thought villager was not suitable for battle.

He had a change of heart obviously.
http://www.smashbros.com/us/characters/villager.html

So, he made villager playable.

Now for exhibit B

He claimed that Namco would not get any special treatment. If he said that why did this get added to smash.

And these guys from galaga (which is made by Namco)

the S flag is a proud symbol of Namco and how charizard is holding it. It is probably going to be an assist trophy based item. That is nothing but retro Namco character that the S flag was in probably

And also not to mention this helps pac-man, and that's a Namco character. And, Sakurai probably knows that if he lets pac-man in as playable his game is going to make history

(worlds first game with Mario sonic mega man pac-man all playable in one game)

(I suppose another is the first time ever Ridley is playable in something that's not fan based game if confirmed playable)

and now for the big apple pie


HES WAY TOO BIG YOU FOOLS

Spoiler

This is by far the worst argument in the history of these forms.

EVERYBODY HAS BEN HUGE AND SHRUKEN AND PLAYABLES HAVE BEN SMALLER THAN THEY HAVE BEN NOT PLAYABLE

Let's start with Bowser.

Oh he was this once.

WROOOONG

They did it twice. (Unless the left is fan based ofcoarse.) and that's not the only time he was huge.

So he resize's Bowser All of the time in stuff. (Without any magical stuff he grab's .)

but when playable.

He's smaller.

And this is with a bunch of other character's with shrinkage or growth.

"King k rool"

"Boss"

He's even bigger in this.

But playable.

WTF a toad is half his height.

"Petey pirhana"

But playable.

Luigi is almost as tall as him.

And here's my favorite

"Quenn bee"

"Boss"

But playable

FROM TITAN SIZE TO A TOAD 3/4 HER SIZE WHAT?!?!?!?!

in other words characters get shrunken when playable

And this one i give credit too @ SchAlternate

View attachment 15761
This is ridley possible biggest size and its still very close to playable, and this proves that ridley's size in that shadow footage is smaller than the super metroid but pretty dang close.

and ofcoarse this kills it
http://nintendoeverything.com/super-smash-bros-for-3ds-screenshot-21914/
the quote of this is
This dog is huge… Wait, no, the playable characters are small. The Smash Bros. series doesn’t always stay true to scale

ok that kills the argument CYA
[\spoiler]
link to part 2
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-ridley-for-super-smash-brothers-for-wii-u-3ds-thread.324284/page-637#post-16728288

Spoiler

I'm hoping you eventually realize that doing nothing but debunking detractors' arguments doesn't make Ridley's chances better.

What are the arguments that he will be in?

 

[aldelaro5]

The thing, I don't really think it's 50/50. In fact, a huge part of the "evidence" you guys put stock in, is assuming that Sakurai is purposefully being misleading over the boss hazard tease in the direct, and there's literally nothing to suggest that he's being misleading in the sense that he'll be playable.

I think that's a pretty weak foundation for believing it could go either way.

While I understand the thirst for arguments aside from "You're in denial", there's so very little for you to work with that it makes arguing with your camp feel a bit...imaginative, rather than soiled in hard evidence. You know?

Allow me to show you an example because it really can go either way.

The most fishy evidence is the fact that he showed the shadow instead of actually showing him. Now, even if you think he's an hazard, could you tell me why he did that instead of just showing him? It was already proven how every deconfirmation was very direct so showing a shadow and not saying that he IS the hazard sounds quite... not direct for a deconfirmation.

But the other sides tells me that he wasn't finished which could explains everything and he could be an hazard because of this. Now, your choice what you think will happen but what's important here is that no matter what side you're picking, you cannot prove without any doubt that one of them is true. It could be an indirect confirmation even if he hasn't done that but saying that it's not what Sakurai would do is very subjective how can you prove that he wouldn't do that at 100%? If he wasn't finished, how can you prove that? Even if you look at how we wait for months on other contents before being shown that is still subjective because that doesn't mean that it has to be the case for ridley. He can do whatever he wants so, it is again, subjective.

The only reason I believe that it is from facts only a 50/50 is the fact that there's 2 possibility and every evidences pointing towards one are the same pointing towards the other side depending on how you see it. What determines if you think he's playable or not is how you interpret those which is opinions. Being sure about one side is more like contradicting the facts and this is why I don't understand how some people are called "in denial" while the opposite happening is 50%. I would be in denial if I'm contradicting the facts but here, it's so double meaning that considering how he COULD be playable can be valid as long as I'm aren't sure because I can't be.

But if you THINK he's an hazard, that's your choice and it is as valid as thinking he would be playable. Just don't claim that it is the only outcome possible because it can be proven wrong.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Honestly I think you guys actually like detractors to come in, despite your "ugh not this again" act.

What fun would it be without a little push-back every now and then?

You have to have SOME way to demonstrate your reasoning to someone else besides another person who already believes the same thing anyway.

Consider me doing you guys a small, fun, favor. Debate can be fun, and I think it's important for you guys to actually get some tension on your beliefs. I welcome people to question mine I would hate at this point in my life thinking every first impression or though I ever had was correct, that'd be boring.

That actually raises a worthwhile question.

Who actually believes that Ridley is playable or non-playable? Those with beliefs are those who have made judgement on the information provided to us. Having not yet done so myself, I lack "belief" in either outcome. I just want Ridley's status confirmed, so that I can then perhaps infer why information concerning Ridley has been handled in the way it has.

A census could thus be a fun and insightful project-of-the-moment for any and all passersby. To which category to you guys belong?

A) Positive belief (inference, intuition, deduction, conviction, etc.) that Ridley, in whatever form(s), will be playable (which includes the Playable Ridley and Hazard Roidley scenario)?

B) Positive belief (inference, intuition, deduction, conviction, etc.) that Ridley is a Boss Hazard (much as Yellow Devil, Dark Emperor (?), and whoever else)?

C) Impartiality (lack of belief) regarding the (non-)playability of Ridley, for whatever reason(s)?

At this juncture, I fall in line with C, since Ridley's oblique referencing don't yet quite make sense to me in either A nor B. If he's playable, why misdirect us with the insinuation of hazard status? If he's a boss hazard, why not outright state as much (i.e. either outright (dis)confirmation and/or explicit visual depiction, as has been the case for all other character entities thus far)?

At this point, I'm more interested in the answer to this mystery than I am in Ridley's actual status. Gimme something more to work with here than a brief tease in a Direct, Sakurai.

"Boss characters make appearances in other stages, not just this one"

Bowser is a 'boss' character, and he's going to technically appear on all of them.

While I want playable Ridley no less than others, this Linguistic Context Technicality Argument strikes me as rather flimsy. It could just as easily be that Other Boss Appearances (in combination with the Pyrosphere shot) means exactly what it says, without any coy subtext or insinuation (i.e. "Sakurai says X, but he actually means Y! >8D").

There is as yet insufficient information, evidence, or context*** to make one interpretation (meaningfully) more probable than the other -- that is, the "Other Boss Appearances" segment makes sense as-is in context, but the technicality interpretation is also sensible, given the vague and ambiguous allusion to Ridley's character (i.e. the highly indirect handling of the "reveal" may suggest more than what was shown at face value).

As such, this linguistic technicality argument seems inferior as a means of asserting the probable eventuality of Ridley's playable status. Using a 50/50 argument isn't very productive since the opponent can just use the other 50 to cancel out your own 50, leading neither side nowhere.

Bowser is a boss in Mario canon, but that doesn't necessarily mean anything for Ridley's Smash prospects (because once more, you can reasonably interpret "boss" as "boss hazard" or as "boss in the character's canon of origin"). If one is to abide by this linguistic technicality argument, one should at least recognize this much.

***By this, I mean that we got brief shot of Ridley's shadow on Pyrosphere, accompanied by a brief allusion to other boss hazards yet to be revealed.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Allow me to show you an example because it really can go either way.

The most fishy evidence is the fact that he showed the shadow instead of actually showing him. Now, even if you think he's an hazard, could you tell me why he did that instead of just showing him? It was already proven how every deconfirmation was very direct so showing a shadow and not saying that he IS the hazard sounds quite... not direct for a deconfirmation.

But the other sides tells me that he wasn't finished which could explains everything and he could be an hazard because of this. Now, your choice what you think will happen but what's important here is that no matter what side you're picking, you cannot prove without any doubt that one of them is true. It could be an indirect confirmation even if he hasn't done that but saying that it's not what Sakurai would do is very subjective how can you prove that he wouldn't do that at 100%? If he wasn't finished, how can you prove that? Even if you look at how we wait for months on other contents before being shown that is still subjective because that doesn't mean that it has to be the case for ridley. He can do whatever he wants so, it is again, subjective.

The only reason I believe that it is from facts only a 50/50 is the fact that there's 2 possibility and every evidences pointing towards one are the same pointing towards the other side depending on how you see it. What determines if you think he's playable or not is how you interpret those which is opinions. Being sure about one side is more like contradicting the facts and this is why I don't understand how some people are called "in denial" while the opposite happening is 50%. I would be in denial if I'm contradicting the facts but here, it's so double meaning that considering how he COULD be playable can be valid as long as I'm aren't sure because I can't be.

But if you THINK he's an hazard, that's your choice and it is as valid as thinking he would be playable. Just don't claim that it is the only outcome possible because it can be proven wrong.

Maybe he wants Ridleys model, and the contents/details surrounding how you interact with him as a boss to be a secret until we get the game, or just for later on, but wanted to say "don't worry, Ridley is going to be in there".

You seem to be under-estimating the excitement of him simply being in the game period, you assert that it MUST be something more, but it doesn't have to be more than what was shown and teased.

 

[SchAlternate]

It's completely unreasonable to suggest that maybe he just wants to create excitement for Ridley being a boss at the at the same level of presence as the yellow devil?

Honestly that'd be pretty cool if while fighting each other you are dealing with the constant attacks of Ridley. Maybe that's what he intended to tease? I mean it's more rooted in fact that's what he meant to tease than it is to assume something entirely presumptuous...

The thing is, from what we could observe from the footage, Ridley wouldn't be a really good boss at all. It is incredibly small and slow to pose any treat at all, and either stands idle at the edge of the stage rocking back and forth, or grabs you and do absolutely nothing.

It's either that, or the boss fight is still incomplete. Though I find it pretty incompetent to have such a poor exhibit on what Ridley is supposed to work like as a boss after 8 or so months after unveiling Pyrosphere. And this is coming from the man that also worked on Kirby, which had hectic, fun, and often tough bosses.

Besides, I wouldn't find the fact that I can fight Ridley as a boss in this installment because that idea has already been done, twice, in Brawl. I'd be much more excited to fight AS a big, mean, and furious space dragon, rather than just have it as a boss YET AGAIN.

 

[AbioFlesh]

I'm hoping you eventually realize that doing nothing but debunking detractors' arguments doesn't make Ridley's chances better.

What are the arguments that he will be in?

All I got is that this time around the developers are listening to the desires of fans outside of Japan as well. So it's a possibility.

Oh, and did you get my previous post?:

Personally I find this forum a fun lil' place for Ripley fans to communicate, speculate, share fake outs and artwork.

I'm not really really here to start arguments, but may I ask: Why do you even bother or care?

 

[Deleted member 245254]

The thing is, from what we could observe from the footage, Ridley wouldn't be a really good boss at all. It is incredibly small and slow to pose any treat at all, and either stands idle at the edge of the stage rocking back and forth, or grabs you and do absolutely nothing.

It's either that, or the boss fight is still incomplete. Though I find it pretty incompetent to have such a poor exhibit on what Ridley is supposed to work like as a boss after 8 or so months after unveiling Pyrosphere. And this is coming from the man that also worked on Kirby, which had hectic, fun, and often tough bosses.

Besides, I wouldn't find the fact that I can fight Ridley as a boss in this installment because that idea has already been done, twice, in Brawl. I'd be much more excited to fight AS a big, mean, and furious space dragon, rather than just have it as a boss YET AGAIN.

You have no idea what he was showing. You saw a shadow of Ridley. Nothing more or less. To assume everything about how threatening it would be or any number of things based off a short choreographed bit, something that requires actually seeing it in action seems a bit foolish.

 

[aldelaro5]

Maybe he wants Ridleys model, and the contents/details surrounding how you interact with him as a boss to be a secret until we get the game, or just for later on, but wanted to say "don't worry, Ridley is going to be in there".

You seem to be under-estimating the excitement of him simply being in the game period, you assert that it MUST be something more, but it doesn't have to be more than what was shown and teased.

euh... I don;t think I understand what you mean. Do you think that there's an outcome other than hazard and playable that I haven't considered? Because when it is in a section about stages, what else is to expect? It could imply hazard but the way he did it is very fishy.

I'm not sure that I follow. If you think the direct was just to tell that he would be in the game, then, is there any other role that is still possible other than hazard or playable?

 

[FreeFallUp]

The thing, I don't really think it's 50/50.

If ya want to get technical, it really is a 50/50 percent chance. Rids is either playable or not.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

If ya want to get technical, it really is a 50/50 percent chance. Rids is either playable or not.

Maybe if you think ignoring evidence or reasoning to suggest either is rational, then yeah, there are many other things that are possible if you ignore evidence.

 

[AbioFlesh]

You have no idea what he was showing. You saw a shadow of Ridley. Nothing more or less. To assume everything about how threatening it would be or any number of things based off a short choreographed bit, something that requires actually seeing it in action seems a bit foolish.

Plz stop ignoring my questions It's called speculation for a reason. Now may I ask (yet again), why do you care whether people jump to conclusions. Foolish or not, why?

 

[SchAlternate]

You have no idea what he was showing. You saw a shadow of Ridley. Nothing more or less. To assume everything about how threatening it would be or any number of things based off a short choreographed bit, something that requires actually seeing it in action seems a bit foolish.

That was just my understanding of the situation. He could've just set the boss to do a specific action via debug and his actual fight being actually quite thrilling (and have me eating crow), but this is what we got to work with. While that is an option, that short clip was enough to tell how big and fast he there, and it turns out that it is indeed notably smaller than his original appearance in Other M and that it moves slower that Pikachu's slow walk. Again, I could be wrong.

The point is, there is a lot of room for ambiguity, meaning that his role is not officially stated. He could be a boss or he could be playable. It could go either way.

 

[aldelaro5]

there are many other things that are possible if you ignore evidence.

What is those "many more things"? I mean for me, the hazard outcome is clearly possible and the playable outcome is possible considering how you could see the clip but what else? If you think it's more than a 50/50, then, what else is still possible?

 

[FreeFallUp]

Maybe if you think ignoring evidence or reasoning to suggest either is rational, then yeah, there are many other things that are possible if you ignore evidence.

?!? Ignore evidence? I am aware of the "evidence" for both sides of the argument. I am merely stating a fact that applies to every non-obvious (i.e. non-guaranteed characters like Mario as well as most vets from less-represented series): everyone "has" a 50/50 chance. Playable or not. This fact ignores details. That's it. Details change the chances, but the starting point is always 50/50, no matter how ridiculous the character.

Edit: Why do you think I am talking about "rational" arguments here? This is wholly "binary actuality" as mentioned later on by another poster.

 

[hotcrumpets]

It's completely unreasonable to suggest that maybe he just wants to create excitement for Ridley being a boss at the at the same level of presence as the yellow devil?

Honestly that'd be pretty cool if while fighting each other you are dealing with the constant attacks of Ridley. Maybe that's what he intended to tease? I mean it's more rooted in fact that's what he meant to tease than it is to assume something entirely presumptuous...

No, but it is unreasonable for him to tease a slow moving, bowser sized, boring boss of the most talked about character for smash. Plus the fact that he had 2 boss fights in brawl does not really make this exciting.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

?!? Ignore evidence? I am aware of the "evidence" for both sides of the argument. I am merely stating a fact that applies to every non-obvious (i.e. guaranteed characters like Mario as well as most vets from less-represented series): everyone "has" a 50/50 chance. Playable or not. This fact ignores details. That's it. Details change the chances, but the starting point is always 50/50, no matter how ridiculous the character.

Yes, and the argument is that with the details we have, Ridley is not currently sitting at 50/50.

No, but it is unreasonable for him to tease a slow moving, bowser sized, boring boss of the most talked about character for smash. Plus the fact that he had 2 boss fights in brawl does not really make this exciting.

Yeah but those also weren't playable stages.

Also, how many people are talking about it =| his chances of being in.

 

[AbioFlesh]

You know, now I'm convinced that you're here to just rile people up.

 

[Malkior7]

No, but it is unreasonable for him to tease a slow moving, bowser sized, boring boss of the most talked about character for smash. Plus the fact that he had 2 boss fights in brawl does not really make this exciting.

that's why this thread has 35k+ posts and all other possible character threads has 10k or less?

 

[FreeFallUp]

Yes, and the argument is that with the details we have, Ridley is not currently sitting at 50/50.

What. Ok, ignore everything I say then...
Don't mind me at all...
I said 50/50 because regardless of the details he is either playable or not.

Why do you care about arguing against Ridely's chances right now? I honestly want to know.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

You know, now I'm convinced that you're here to just rile people up.

I'm not. I really do think the chances of Ridley being playable are astronomically low to the point where you can only merely discuss whether it's technically possible or not.

 

[Sehnsucht]

?!? Ignore evidence? I am aware of the "evidence" for both sides of the argument. I am merely stating a fact that applies to every non-obvious (i.e. guaranteed characters like Mario as well as most vets from less-represented series): everyone "has" a 50/50 chance. Playable or not. This fact ignores details. That's it. Details change the chances, but the starting point is always 50/50, no matter how ridiculous the character.

Edit: Why do you think I am talking about rational here?

To put this in a more succinct manner, a given character is either playable, or is not playable. This binary actuality is the basis for a 50/50 foundation.

However, you can make inferences on available information to skew this distribution. So you can examine evidence and suspect Ridley's playability as a 60/40 probability, or his non-playability as a 70/30 probability, and so forth. So while a character is either playable or not playable, you can argue that one is likelier than the other based on inferences.

The problem in this case is that for Ridley, all we have to work with is a >10 second shot of a shadow, and a single POTD that is even less indicative of playability than that paltry amount of footage. Hence the ongoing speculation and debate.

 

[FreeFallUp]

I'm not. I really do think the chances of Ridley being playable are astronomically low to the point where you can only merely discuss whether it's technically possible or not.

Sooooooooooooo, what exactly is the point of hanging around a support thread if you do not support the character other than trying to knock down every supporting argument?

 

[Sehnsucht]

Sooooooooooooo, what exactly is the point of hanging around a support thread if you do not support the character other than trying to knock down every supporting argument?

Boredom and libido.

 

[aldelaro5]

I'm not. I really do think the chances of Ridley being playable are astronomically low to the point where you can only merely discuss whether it's technically possible or not.

... now I'm even more confused.

The fact that we are talking if he's possible or not make his chances low? So I guess that arguing with mii being possible or not to implement makes their chances low?

For me, that would be like saying that chorus men has a low chance because I don't know how it can be possible.

 

[Deleted member 245254]

Are you saying that I should create a "Ridley anti-support" thread to voice my opinion? It seems you're trying to imply that debate on the subject is off-topic but you're wrong.