Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[JaidynReiman]

Where did he grab Pikachu? I don't remember that.

 

[RidleyKraid187]

How could a trailer with a purple space dragon possibly suck?

I was Joking. although, since you asked, It could pretty much be the first part of Mega Man's trailer, where he was getting the crap beaten outta him by everybody......

 

[majora_787]

You know what's ironic? The most bosslike characteristic Ridley appears to have (grabbing Pikachu in midair) is what cements Ridley as a playable character for me. If he DIDN'T do that, I would have a little doubt.

"But no characters did that before!" Honestly, Sakurai is working hard to make characters unique in this game. If he made Ridley I wouldn't be surprised if Ridley were air-based with longer hover times than Peach (who isn't air-based) and an air grab.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Where did he grab Pikachu? I don't remember that.

Here's a trace. Look for the blob.

"But no characters did that before!" Honestly, Sakurai is working hard to make characters unique in this game. If he made Ridley I wouldn't be surprised if Ridley were air-based with longer hover times than Peach (who isn't air-based) and an air grab.

Well, I said it cemented it for me because it gave me a basis for Pikachu's size relative to Ridley's, using the hilarious stiff-tailed Ridley models and Pikachu's pillar of tails.

 

[majora_787]

Whether Ridley grabs Pikachu or not is kind of negligible at this point though. I mean if he doesn't it doesn't hurt Ridley, and if it does it cements playability even harder. But we have things besides this to look at.

 

[Saltwater Gem]

But you're still making the assumption that Ridley has some unique mechanic to justify him doing what he does instead of Occam's Razor.

 

[majora_787]

But you're still making the assumption that Ridley has some unique mechanic to justify him doing what he does instead of Occam's Razor.

Which is more ridiculous? Assuming "infinite flight" based off of ten seconds of footage, or assuming a unique mechanic in a game where unique mechanics are being given more priority?

You're not going to give the correct answer here, so feel free to treat it like a rhetorical question.

 

[JaidynReiman]

Oh wow, he does grab Pikachu. I tried watching it but I didn't notice.

"But no characters did that before!" Honestly, Sakurai is working hard to make characters unique in this game. If he made Ridley I wouldn't be surprised if Ridley were air-based with longer hover times than Peach (who isn't air-based) and an air grab.

I've always speculated ever since Little Mac that if Ridley were playable, he'd basically be an aerial Little Mac. Bad on the ground, but with good air time and a solid air game, but a little slow. Its even possible that Ridley might never actually land, he just hovers off the ground, though I doubt that. He probably does actually land on the ground.


He seriously doesn't look like a boss at all, though. There's so much against him being a boss at this point its not even funny. I'm open to the possibility he is a boss, but I highly doubt it right now.

 

[majora_787]

That's basically where I am. An air-based character would be strange and different, but but I can see it working just fine. Slow, clumsy, and avoidable on the ground with long air times and quicker or more dangerous and versatile abilities in the air.

 

[UltimateWario]

At least we can all take comfort in the fact that, if Ridley is a boss like we're led to believe, that he'll at least be...uh...

...completely disappointing.

...

 

[Deleted member]

Wow, if Ridley is the oposite of Mac, I'll have my most wanted newcomer with the play style I prefer

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

But you're still making the assumption that Ridley has some unique mechanic to justify him doing what he does instead of Occam's Razor.

That's not the important part. A unique move isn't what proves it for me. It's Ridley's tiny size that proves it for me.

Ridley's hugest size possible:

Ridley's smallest size possible:

Why would a BOSS, especially one as infamous a Ridley for changing sizes, be THIS tiny?

And for reference:

 

[majora_787]

I've gone over several times what the horrible blatantly obvious design issues are with having a boss that takes up a tenth of the stage and moves slowly through the air while everyone runs around it and jumps up the platforms to blast it with projectiles would be. That's not a "boss", it's basically Birdo the Metroid edition.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Oh wow, he does grab Pikachu. I tried watching it but I didn't notice.


I've always speculated ever since Little Mac that if Ridley were playable, he'd basically be an aerial Little Mac. Bad on the ground, but with good air time and a solid air game, but a little slow. Its even possible that Ridley might never actually land, he just hovers off the ground, though I doubt that. He probably does actually land on the ground.


He seriously doesn't look like a boss at all, though. There's so much against him being a boss at this point its not even funny. I'm open to the possibility he is a boss, but I highly doubt it right now.

I honestly don't understand how people can be so pessimistic to believe that Ridley is a boss, with at most, ONE vague statement backing it.

 

[Saltwater Gem]

Which is more ridiculous? Assuming "infinite flight" based off of ten seconds of footage, or assuming a unique mechanic in a game where unique mechanics are being given more priority?

You're not going to give the correct answer here, so feel free to treat it like a rhetorical question.

If he's a boss, infinite flight makes sense. You're assuming the context has no importance and then making up a game mechanic to justify how he is acting.

 

[ppbto]

Seriously, still arguing when we're at just about 18 h from the E3. We should be on the hypetrain, not losing our time with this useless argument.

But you're still making the assumption that Ridley has some unique mechanic to justify him doing what he does instead of Occam's Razor.

You're attacking our assumptions when all you have are assumptions as well. This only will lead to an endless and useless argument.

 

[majora_787]

I honestly don't understand how people can be so pessimistic to believe that Ridley is a boss, with at most, ONE vague statement backing it.

You know what they say: One vague statement in a direct full of trolly jokes and misdirections means everything.

Actual observations and facts mean nothing. We're all delusional for using silly things like logic, facts, and observations. And if we end up wrong, we're also stupid.

EDIT: How do you not see the problem? You are claiming "INFINITE" based off of *TEN SECONDS* of footage of a shadow of a thing that we don't know the details about.

If all we had of Pit was ten seconds of Pit spamming his B move, by your logic this means he DEFINITELY does nothing but infinitely shoot arrows and is deconfirmed because of it. Probably an assist trophy or a boss, but it's DEFINITELY not a player just selectively spamming his arrows.

 

[Xhampi]

If Roidley is playable in this smash, I really wonder what they are going to do with him in smash 5 if in the next metroid Ridley is something like Meta/Omega Ridley, keep him as Roidley or heavily modify him (body and moves) to represent the new Ridley ?

 

[Reila]

Seriously, still arguing when we're at just about 18 h from the E3. We should be on the hypetrain, not losing our time with this useless argument.

I agree. Arguing at this point will do no good, there are better things to do like speculate how Ridley's trailer will be, etc. Or just post hype things.

 

[majora_787]

If Roidley is playable in this smash, I really wonder what they are going to do with him in smash 5 if in the next metroid Ridley is something like Meta/Omega Ridley, keep him as Roidley or heavily modify him (body and moves) to represent the new Ridley ?

Well I would assume the would modify him to accommodate like they do with most characters.

 

[Johnknight1]

Alright guys, here's a deal, the same deal I made at last year's E3...

If Ridley is confirmed as a playable character at E3, I will shave my head!!!

Here's a pic of me from a few seconds ago for reference...

That's a lot of hair to shave

(again)

I will post pictures to confirm it.

 

[Saltwater Gem]

Seriously, still arguing when we're at just about 18 h from the E3. We should be on the hypetrain, not losing our time with this useless argument.



You're attacking our assumptions when all you have are assumptions as well. This only will lead to an endless and useless argument.

You're absolutely right. But my assumptions are based on accepting the context and information that are given to me by the game's creator... instead of basing my assumptions around ANOTHER assumption that the game's director is being purposely misleading and has some extremely long-running mind-game going with fans and then cherry-picking things to put things together the way you want it. "Ridley might be only slightly larger than Bowser!" And that's too SMALL for a boss? Isn't that an assumption? "Ridley flies indefinitely! He must either have an infinite flight mechanic or just hover for a really long time!" Or he's a boss like the context dictates. Only by ignoring the creator's statements, presentation, and context do little things like rough size and assumable impossibly immovable platforms have real importance (but even then, they are assumptions and don't matter).

 

[SchAlternate]

Come on guys, away with the negative vibes. Here's something that may help you.

Spoiler

Here's to Ridley's victory at E3!

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

You're absolutely right. But my assumptions are based on accepting the context and information that are given to me by the game's creator... instead of basing my assumptions around ANOTHER assumption that the game's director is being purposely misleading and has some extremely long-running mind-game going with fans and then cherry-picking things to put things together the way you want it. "Ridley might be only slightly larger than Bowser!" And that's too SMALL for a boss? Isn't that an assumption? "Ridley flies indefinitely! He must either have an infinite flight mechanic or just hover for a really long time!" Or he's a boss like the context dictates. Only by ignoring the creator's statements, presentation, and context do little things like rough size and assumable impossibly immovable platforms have real importance (but even then, they are assumptions and don't matter).

Why then? Why is Ridley small? Why not make him huge, like in another fighting game with Stage Hazardley?

Or at least his "4x Bowser-size" Brawl appearance?

 

[ppbto]

You're absolutely right. But my assumptions are based on accepting the context and information that are given to me by the game's creator... instead of basing my assumptions around ANOTHER assumption that the game's director is being purposely misleading and has some extremely long-running mind-game going with fans and then cherry-picking things to put things together the way you want it. "Ridley might be only slightly larger than Bowser!" And that's too SMALL for a boss? Isn't that an assumption? "Ridley flies indefinitely! He must either have an infinite flight mechanic or just hover for a really long time!" Or he's a boss like the context dictates. Only by ignoring the creator's statements, presentation, and context do little things like rough size and assumable impossibly immovable platforms have real importance (but even then, they are assumptions and don't matter).

Indeed, they are just assumptions. Taking everything at face value isn't a good way to speculate. As I said before you don't have undeniable proof that Ridley is disconfirmed , we don't have undeniable proof that he's confirmed. Until official confirmation Ridley is on a state of confirmed-disconfirmed, similar to the paradox of the Schrödinger's cat.

 

[Saltwater Gem]

I don't know why. I could make up random reasons like "he needs to be small enough to fit on the platforms" or "a big sized character combined with the lava hazard would be too much to handle" but I don't know. Maybe the place fills up with lava and Ridley simply perches on one of the platforms, leaving the competitors to play musical chairs to fight for the 3 remaining platforms. I really don't know why. But I don't need to know. He could just be a smaller sized boss (and being bigger than Bowser isn't THAT small).

 

[Snagrio]

That's not the important part. A unique move isn't what proves it for me. It's Ridley's tiny size that proves it for me.

Ridley's hugest size possible:

Ridley's smallest size possible:

Why would a BOSS, especially one as infamous a Ridley for changing sizes, be THIS tiny?

And for reference:

Aww, where's the one with Pikachu wearing a Ridley tails skirt?

 

[Con0rrrr]

I don't know why. I could make up random reasons like "he needs to be small enough to fit on the platforms" or "a big sized character combined with the lava hazard would be too much to handle" but I don't know. Maybe the place fills up with lava and Ridley simply perches on one of the platforms, leaving the competitors to play musical chairs to fight for the 3 remaining platforms. I really don't know why. But I don't need to know. He could just be a smaller sized boss (and being bigger than Bowser isn't THAT small).

But Ridley's defining factor is his size. If they were going for Boss character, they'd make him big because they could. If he was playable he'd be significantly downsized, as seen by the shadow.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Aww, where's the one with Pikachu wearing a Ridley tails skirt?

Just for you.

 

[majora_787]

But Ridley's defining factor is his size. If they were going for Boss character, they'd make him big because they could. If he was playable he'd be significantly downsized, as seen by the shadow.

While his defining factor isn't his size as a character, if he were a boss he DEFINITELY would not be the size of a playable character.

In before "Maybe they finished the stage and Sakurai suddenly went 'what if we rip off Dead or Alive and make Ridley a boss here. Oh shoot the stage is really poorly made for a boss. Instead of altering the stage layout let's just make Ridley the size of a playable character.'"

 

[Saltwater Gem]

There's no need to make up rationalizations for him being small. If he's small, he's small ("small" still being bigger than the biggest playable character). Just because he's smaller than expected or smaller than in Brawl doesn't mean he isn't a boss.

 

[majora_787]

There's no need to make up rationalizations for him being small. If he's small, he's small ("small" still being bigger than the biggest playable character). Just because he's smaller than expected or smaller than in Brawl doesn't mean he isn't a boss.

So there is no reason to find it strange that Ridley, a character who is always a large boss, is THE ONLY boss who is the size of a playable character? Nothing strange about that at all? I mean in general, not to you. Of course YOU don't see the issue with that somehow, but seriously.

Making Ridley a slow small boss on the Pyrosphere stage may be "What happened", but if he is a boss in the way this is set up it is ridiculously bad design at work. And having played Sakurai's games before I don't think he's capable of consciously making such bad design choices.

And you can call that "subjective" all you want, but there is nothing good design-wise about a slow, small boss on a large stage who moves so slowly that EVERY CHARACTER will have the means (by their own speed and the stage itself) to completely avoid him with extreme ease.

Unless he fires GIGANTIC fireballs that are nearly IMPOSSIBLE to avoid and that is all he does, this isn't going to *work*.

 

[UltimateWario]

"BUT WHAT IF X"

"BUT WHAT IF X ISN'T X"

This is all this is. Good God, people.

 

[Reality_Ciak]

I tried to stay off the boards until E3 but the hype is too real. I'm back and here to stay. If anyone cares. Ridley cares...

 

[ppbto]

I don't know why. I could make up random reasons like "he needs to be small enough to fit on the platforms" or "a big sized character combined with the lava hazard would be too much to handle" but I don't know. Maybe the place fills up with lava and Ridley simply perches on one of the platforms, leaving the competitors to play musical chairs to fight for the 3 remaining platforms. I really don't know why. But I don't need to know. He could just be a smaller sized boss (and being bigger than Bowser isn't THAT small).

Discussions where both parts argue using: Opinions vs Opinions or Assumptions vs Assumptions will never end, because one can always make or change their opinions/assumptions to defeat the other person's opinions/assumptions.

This is why we need use facts to debate.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Come on guys, away with the negative vibes. Here's something that may help you.

Spoiler

Here's to Ridley's victory at E3!

I love this song!

 

[AustarusIV]

At least we can all take comfort in the fact that, if Ridley is a boss like we're led to believe, that he'll at least be...uh...

...completely disappointing.

...

At least he would be completely optional to fight, right? Thank goodness for FD stages.

Anyways, I like that we're passionate for his (possible) reveal at E3, but every time I start thinking about Ridley's fate I get the butterflies. I'm going to expect very little out of this E3, but if he isn't shown as a boss hazard at all, period, then I think there's still hope for everyone's favorite space pirate.

 

[Xhampi]

"BUT WHAT IF X"

"BUT WHAT IF X ISN'T X"

This is all this is. Good God, people.

Courage it may be the last time we see a debate about a possible playable Ridley and I want to see if they can reach page 850 by tomorrow

 

[Deleted member]

I hate when people say "he can't be bigger than Bowser, because there is no one bigger than Bowser". It's like saying "we can't have Little Mac because he would be stronger than X, and no one is stronger than X"

 

[SchAlternate]

I love this song!

You should check the rest of the Contemporary Nation songs. They are all really good.