Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[SchAlternate]

Okay, my eyeball estimate was off. Still, look at the size discrepancy between Ridley(who's not even stretching, he's still practically sitting) and Samus, who we know is one of the taller characters in the game. To be close to a playable size, you'd be honestly suggesting that Ridley stay completely hunched the whole fight? Especially in an engine where hunchbacks seem to be going the way of the dodo(see Yoshi/Bowser)?

... So?

 

[majora_787]

I managed to forget Donkey Kong too, with his hunched posture. And that's CLOSER to Roidley posture than anything. Oops.

 

[UltimateWario]

I was reading some old posts on another forum, and found a couple of posts from my pre-Ridley days. As much as it'll make me sound like a douchebag, I really wish more Ridley "detractors" were more like I was back then. Admittedly, I feel a little embarrassed reading them, since they're pretty closed-minded, but I was still a pretty cool guy about it.

I can't remember the exact wording, but essentially "I couldn't honestly see Ridley becoming playable without looking awkward and gangly. Don't get me wrong, I would love playing as Ridley, but I just don't see how it could work without him being huge or weird-looking."

-sigh- Aye, simpler times, they were. Back before shadowy Directs and being witness to the insipid core of TooBigotry.

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

Sure is a good thing Wolf and Greninja have 100% upright body posture when fighting.

They can stand up and still be a reasonable size though, as seen in Greninja's trailer during one of his taunts(Uptilt? Dunno, that bit where he does a ninja sign above his head?) or Wolf's Uptilt from Brawl.

Perhaps that notion is precisely why Ridley is the hunchback of Notre Dame? It would make him much more unique if all of the other reptilian characters corrected their posture? Do you not believe this to be the case?

... So?

To be frank, I wouldn't really consider him too threatening if I knew he couldn't stretch out and do anything outside of maybe ball me to death. As a boss, he'd be able to stand up straight, lash across the stage with lunging swipes with his overlong limbs, and would be a bit more reasonable to consider than a ball of scales that hops. How would he even move? Run? How would he even crouch?

 

[majora_787]

You mean those sizes they maintain for minimal windows of time mid-attack or in taunts? And who decides reasonable here? You, or Sakurai?

Not to mention the issue with Ridley's natural posture BEING more hunched forward. Ridley standing upright wouldn't be as much of a height difference with Roidley, considering how much longer his arms are. He's closer to being like Donkey Kong in posture than anything else.

How would he move or run? With his *FEET*, *LEGS*, and *WINGS*. How would he crouch? With his *JOINTS*, probably getting lower to the ground.

People really worry me when they ask questions like these. And I mean they worry me in the worst way possible. How would a character with limbs move or do extremely basic functions with their limbs? How would they do ANYTHING that is extremely self-explanatory in nature? There's basically no way they could do things they can do! It's madness!

 

[SchAlternate]

They can stand up and still be a reasonable size though, as seen in Greninja's trailer during one of his taunts(Uptilt? Dunno, that bit where he does a ninja sign above his head?) or Wolf's Uptilt from Brawl.

To be frank, I wouldn't really consider him too threatening if I knew he couldn't stretch out and do anything outside of maybe ball me to death. As a boss, he'd be able to stand up straight, lash across the stage with lunging swipes with his overlong limbs, and would be a bit more reasonable to consider than a ball of scales that hops. How would he even move? Run? How would he even crouch?

... Again, so? Ridley could easily do the same as Wolf and Greninja with an up smash of something to get crazy reach.

As for crouching... dude, have some imagination...

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

You mean those sizes they maintain for minimal windows of time mid-attack or in taunts? And who decides reasonable here? You, or Sakurai?

Not to mention the issue with Ridley's natural posture BEING more hunched forward. Ridley standing upright wouldn't be as much of a height difference with Roidley, considering how much longer his arms are. He's closer to being like Donkey Kong in posture than anything else.

How would he move or run? With his *FEET*, *LEGS*, and *WINGS*. How would he crouch? With his *JOINTS*, probably getting lower to the ground.

People really worry me when they ask questions like these. And I mean they worry me in the worst way possible. How would a character with limbs move or do extremely basic functions with their limbs? How would they do ANYTHING that is extremely self-explanatory in nature? There's basically no way they could do things they can do! It's madness!

Okay. So then Ridley's a quadruped then? And unless Ridley FLATTENS himself, he's not going to create any appreciable difference in height between his idle stance and his crouching stance.

 

[GraveJoker]

You mean those sizes they maintain for minimal windows of time mid-attack or in taunts? And who decides reasonable here? You, or Sakurai?

Not to mention the issue with Ridley's natural posture BEING more hunched forward. Ridley standing upright wouldn't be as much of a height difference with Roidley, considering how much longer his arms are. He's closer to being like Donkey Kong in posture than anything else.

How would he move or run? With his *FEET*, *LEGS*, and *WINGS*. How would he crouch? With his *JOINTS*, probably getting lower to the ground.

People really worry me when they ask questions like these. And I mean they worry me in the worst way possible. How would a character with limbs move or do extremely basic functions with their limbs? How would they do ANYTHING that is extremely self-explanatory in nature? There's basically no way they could do things they can do! It's madness!

Just like my friend earlier. Another point from his argument is that he isnt humanoid and wouldnt fit in SSB

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

... Again, so? Ridley could easily do the same as Wolf and Greninja with an up smash of something to get crazy reach.

As for crouching... dude, have some imagination...

View attachment 15682

If Ridley stood up and stretched himself upwards for an Uptilt or Usmash, he'd be able to scrape the top of some stages. Come on, now.

 

[SchAlternate]

Okay. So then Ridley's a quadruped then? And unless Ridley FLATTENS himself, he's not going to create any appreciable difference in height between his idle stance and his crouching stance.

Mewtwo's crouching in Melee is pretty insignificant too.

If Ridley stood up and stretched himself upwards for an Uptilt or Usmash, he'd be able to scrape the top of some stages. Come on, now.

... Sooooooo? There are plenty of attacks that traverse through the bottom of the platform. Ridley's would be no different.

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

Mewtwo's crouching in Melee is pretty insignificant too.

But he at least stood and, when executing moves, didn't have disproportionate lengths to his limbs.

As far as DK goes, he does stand hunched forward, but he also still doesn't have the sheer length and reach that Ridley would. Ridley, to remain balanced AT ALL, would have to stay tightly crunched up, and that doesn't exactly seem usable or fun for a fighter. Otherwise, he would outrange literally everyone in the game with his limbs alone, let alone if he gets a projectile, gap generator, etc.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Do I need to reiterate the Ridley that I have was designed to be as huge as possible?

I DO have a smaller-scaled Ridley for you guys to debate...

 

[Pacack]

But he at least stood and, when executing moves, didn't have disproportionate lengths to his limbs.

As far as DK goes, he does stand hunched forward, but he also still doesn't have the sheer length and reach that Ridley would. Ridley, to remain balanced AT ALL, would have to stay tightly crunched up, and that doesn't exactly seem usable or fun for a fighter. Otherwise, he would outrange literally everyone in the game with his limbs alone, let alone if he gets a projectile, gap generator, etc.

Dude, if it's really that big a deal, we can just make him smaller. That was the max size.

 

[majora_787]

Seriously. Ridley is a new combination of things for Smash Bros., but literally nothing that makes up that combination is new.

Weird posture? DK, Greninja, Wolf all work.

Large size? Dedede, Bowser, Charizard, DK all work.

Wings? Pit, Meta Knight, and Charizard all work.

Tail? Mewtwo, Charizard, and Diddy Kong all work.

Bonus points to DK who is large with weird posture. Bonus points to Charizard who is large, has wings, and a noticeable tail.

There is nothing new here. Ridley can have a large size, not-full-on-humanoid posture, a tail like Diddy Kong's and wings that accumulate to an air-based character. It would be strange. It would be new. But all of the PARTS have been done before in several combinations.
A character with new never-before-seen fighting style bias? Ridley would be a first, but we just got Little Mac who does the OPPOSITE in functioning disturbingly well on the ground and disturbingly poorly in the air.

 

[I Bet You Can]

But he at least stood and, when executing moves, didn't have disproportionate lengths to his limbs.

As far as DK goes, he does stand hunched forward, but he also still doesn't have the sheer length and reach that Ridley would. Ridley, to remain balanced AT ALL, would have to stay tightly crunched up, and that doesn't exactly seem usable or fun for a fighter. Otherwise, he would outrange literally everyone in the game with his limbs alone, let alone if he gets a projectile, gap generator, etc.

Ya know if we made him mabye the size of bowser his arms would be smaller, therefore not having a ton of reach but enough. Problem Solved

 

[CorruptedMotives]

I just joined Smashboards to give my support to this thread. This thread really convinced me that Ridley was playable. I really didn't care prior to the direct, but now I'm pretty convinced he's in (and hoping). I've been lurking here since about page 700 or so.

 

[majora_787]

Ya know if we made him mabye the size of bowser his arms would be smaller, therefore not having a ton of reach but enough. Problem Solved

The thing is.

1. He is the size of Bowser.

2. Other M Ridley's body proportions give him very long arms. That's just how he is. He's sort of like Donkey Kong because of it.

But this can work out fine since on the ground he could BE a deliberately clumsy melee character. He could well be an air-centric character where all of his GOOD attacks are with his tail or fire or air grabs.

 

[SchAlternate]

But he at least stood and, when executing moves, didn't have disproportionate lengths to his limbs.

As far as DK goes, he does stand hunched forward, but he also still doesn't have the sheer length and reach that Ridley would. Ridley, to remain balanced AT ALL, would have to stay tightly crunched up, and that doesn't exactly seem usable or fun for a fighter. Otherwise, he would outrange literally everyone in the game with his limbs alone, let alone if he gets a projectile, gap generator, etc.

His reach would be great, but his power/speed would be poor. Done.

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

Dude, if it's really that big a deal, we can just make him smaller. That was the max size.

Size isn't necessarily the prickly point here, it's proportion. Ridley's proportions are incredibly out of whack and would result in completely unfair matchups unless he were scaled rather heavily. His main body would have to be the size of Mario to balance his reach, and even then, that's just assuming he swipes with his arms and does nothing with extending his legs(like, say, lashing forward with a full-body-length claw attack). If he stretches himself out to fight(which makes sense), he'd be ridiculous TO fight.

Also, you're seriously gonna suggest a critter that stacked would have worse knockback that some of the smaller folk on the roster? I thought Ridley's whole schtick was speed and harassment. Power, Reach, Speed, Defense. Pick two.

Assuming Other M(because that's what they used for Samus/ZSS/Pyrosphere), he's built like a firehouse. Would he extend himself in the air vertically, or keep tightly curled? Ridley's overlong limbs provide a slew of problems, because his arms are silly compared to his main body(and neck, which would be dangerously thin if he were resized so drastically).

 

[majora_787]

I think the problem is, some certain unspecified individuals are working entirely under the assumption that Ridley is required to work exactly like some kind of cookie cutter of what we already have. Despite the fact that this is literally the game of "Sakurai doing new things that we haven't seen in Smash Bros. before".

If someone told me five years ago we'd get characters with A button projectiles, RIDEABLE projectiles, multiple step attacks, one-hit-KO's they could get every couple of seconds in a FFA match and unleash whenever they feel like it, the ability to be in multiple places at once to attack...

I'd think you were on drugs and I'd have no idea how any of those things could ever work out. But here we are, with new and crazy stuff happening. These "issues" Ridley has (READ: Issues other characters have except they aren't issues because they're not on RIDLEY at the time) can be worked around I'm sure, especially by Sakurai.

 

[I Bet You Can]

Size isn't necessarily the prickly point here, it's proportion. Ridley's proportions are incredibly out of whack and would result in completely unfair matchups unless he were scaled rather heavily. His main body would have to be the size of Mario to balance his reach, and even then, that's just assuming he swipes with his arms and does nothing with extending his legs(like, say, lashing forward with a full-body-length claw attack). If he stretches himself out to fight(which makes sense), he'd be ridiculous TO fight.

Also, you're seriously gonna suggest a critter that stacked would have worse knockback that some of the smaller folk on the roster? I thought Ridley's whole schtick was speed and harassment. Power, Reach, Speed, Defense. Pick two.

Assuming Other M(because that's what they used for Samus/ZSS/Pyrosphere), he's built like a firehouse. Would he extend himself in the air vertically, or keep tightly curled? Ridley's overlong limbs provide a slew of problems, because his arms are silly compared to his main body(and neck, which would be dangerously thin if he were resized so drastically).

I don't know why you're Complaining anyways, I'm sure when Sakurai puts Ridley in he'll have made sure he is balanced in everyway, just like all the other characters.

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

I think the problem is, some certain unspecified individuals are working entirely under the assumption that Ridley is required to work exactly like some kind of cookie cutter of what we already have. Despite the fact that this is literally the game of "Sakurai doing new things that we haven't seen in Smash Bros. before".

If someone told me five years ago we'd get characters with A button projectiles, RIDEABLE projectiles, multiple step attacks, one-hit-KO's they could get every couple of seconds in a FFA match and unleash whenever they feel like it, the ability to be in multiple places at once to attack...

I'd think you were on drugs and I'd have no idea how any of those things could ever work out. But here we are, with new and crazy stuff happening. These "issues" Ridley has (READ: Issues other characters have except they aren't issues because they're not on RIDLEY at the time) can be worked around I'm sure, especially by Sakurai.

There's a difference between 'new and interesting' and 'new and busted day 1'. Mac's 1-hit KO requires him to work for it(or serves as a comeback mechanic if it doesn't empty on KO and he's getting bodied hard). Villager's Lloid Rocket(sp?) probably puts him in a helpless fall state(I do not know, I don't think it's been shown yet). Multi-step attacks were done with Marth back in Melee. Mega Man's walking shots do look concerning though, because they cause hitstun and knockback. I'm not sure I'm okay with that either, I think non-charged shots should have been more like Fox's laser, damage but no knockback/hitstun. But he does have a narrow angle of attack to work with(straight ahead), so that may balance things there. Ridley would have crazy range with his long limbs if he stretches out for his Smashes/tilts(and why wouldn't he), enough that if that model of Ridley made it to the game playable, he could hit a third of FD with a forward attack. That's just too much coverage!

 

[SchAlternate]

Size isn't necessarily the prickly point here, it's proportion. Ridley's proportions are incredibly out of whack and would result in completely unfair matchups unless he were scaled rather heavily. His main body would have to be the size of Mario to balance his reach, and even then, that's just assuming he swipes with his arms and does nothing with extending his legs(like, say, lashing forward with a full-body-length claw attack). If he stretches himself out to fight(which makes sense), he'd be ridiculous TO fight.

Also, you're seriously gonna suggest a critter that stacked would have worse knockback that some of the smaller folk on the roster? I thought Ridley's whole schtick was speed and harassment. Power, Reach, Speed, Defense. Pick two.

Assuming Other M(because that's what they used for Samus/ZSS/Pyrosphere), he's built like a firehouse. Would he extend himself in the air vertically, or keep tightly curled? Ridley's overlong limbs provide a slew of problems, because his arms are silly compared to his main body(and neck, which would be dangerously thin if he were resized so drastically).

If Donkey Kong were standing, he'd be pretty damn tall as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4584D3jA0w

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

I don't know why you're Complaining anyways, I'm sure when Sakurai puts Ridley in he'll have made sure he is balanced in everyway, just like all the other characters.

Vanilla Brawl Meta Knight wants to have a chat...

 

[Snagrio]

... Again, so? Ridley could easily do the same as Wolf and Greninja with an up smash of something to get crazy reach.

As for crouching... dude, have some imagination...

View attachment 15682

But, Ridley can't crawl!

 

[False Sense]

So, are we arguing about Ridley being potentially overpowered as a character, or are we arguing that because he could be overpowered, he won't be playable.

Because if it's the latter, there are some obvious flaws with that line of thinking...

 

[I Bet You Can]

There's a difference between 'new and interesting' and 'new and busted day 1'. Mac's 1-hit KO requires him to work for it(or serves as a comeback mechanic if it doesn't empty on KO and he's getting bodied hard). Villager's Lloid Rocket(sp?) probably puts him in a helpless fall state(I do not know, I don't think it's been shown yet). Multi-step attacks were done with Marth back in Melee. Mega Man's walking shots do look concerning though, because they cause hitstun and knockback. I'm not sure I'm okay with that either, I think non-charged shots should have been more like Fox's laser, damage but no knockback/hitstun. But he does have a narrow angle of attack to work with(straight ahead), so that may balance things there. Ridley would have crazy range with his long limbs if he stretches out for his Smashes/tilts(and why wouldn't he), enough that if that model of Ridley made it to the game playable, he could hit a third of FD with a forward attack. That's just too much coverage!

Like most of us have said, since he'll probably be the size of Bowser, his arms will have to shrink down too. His arms sure as hell won't reach all the way across the stage once he's shrunk. The problem with you is you don't see that.

 

[majora_787]

There's a difference between 'new and interesting' and 'new and busted day 1'. Mac's 1-hit KO requires him to work for it(or serves as a comeback mechanic if it doesn't empty on KO and he's getting bodied hard). Villager's Lloid Rocket(sp?) probably puts him in a helpless fall state(I do not know, I don't think it's been shown yet). Multi-step attacks were done with Marth back in Melee. Mega Man's walking shots do look concerning though, because they cause hitstun and knockback. I'm not sure I'm okay with that either, I think non-charged shots should have been more like Fox's laser, damage but no knockback/hitstun. But he does have a narrow angle of attack to work with(straight ahead), so that may balance things there. Ridley would have crazy range with his long limbs if he stretches out for his Smashes/tilts(and why wouldn't he), enough that if that model of Ridley made it to the game playable, he could hit a third of FD with a forward attack. That's just too much coverage!

Work for it? He gets a good fill on his meter for every attack he gives OR takes. He doesn't have to "work" for it. Now you're using guesses and assumptions as evidence again, so that's swell. That is not a multi-step attack. That is a multi-hit attack. You did not have to use every single attack in Dancing Blade to be able to use the attack at all. And Mega Man has projectile aerials on top of that. So you're willing to go "Well maybe it'll possibly work out somehow" with Mega Man, but when Ridley is involved, no? No way? The limits of your shallow imagination stop right there? Sakurai could never balance this out in a million years? And crazy range on the ground can't be balanced out with long startup times, low damage, or anything like that which would be expected of a weak ground character? Add some hyperbole, and we're perfect.

They are devoting a ridiculous amount of resources to balance as far as we've been told and shown. That is not going to end at Ridley, as much as you want to believe that Ridley is literally The Exception to common sense, game design, and balance.

 

[I Bet You Can]

Vanilla Brawl Meta Knight wants to have a chat...

I never had a problem with meta-knight...
Besides in this game if he adds Meta knight back in he'll definitely be more balanced

 

[SchAlternate]

Vanilla Brawl Meta Knight wants to have a chat...

So would Melee Fox and 64 Pikachu. It's pretty much certain that they'll mess up with at least one character, but how can you be so sure it's going to be specifically Ridley?

 

[majora_787]

So would Melee Fox and 64 Pikachu. It's pretty much certain that they'll mess up with at least one character, but how can you be so sure it's going to be specifically Ridley?

Because it's Ridley, and Ridley is ALWAYS the exception. Didn't you get the memo? I can guarantee you, if Ridley were in past smash games? Fox, Pikachu, and Meta Knight wouldn't have been nearly as good in their own games as they were. Because Ridley.

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

If Donkey Kong were standing, he'd be pretty damn tall as well.

View attachment 15687

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4584D3jA0w

I wonder where Samus ends up in that measurement.

Work for it? He gets a good fill on his meter for every attack he gives OR takes. He doesn't have to "work" for it. Now you're using guesses and assumptions as evidence again, so that's swell. That is not a multi-step attack. That is a multi-hit attack. You did not have to use every single attack in Dancing Blade to be able to use the attack at all. And Mega Man has projectile aerials on top of that. So you're willing to go "Well maybe it'll possibly work out somehow" with Mega Man, but when Ridley is involved, no? No way? The limits of your shallow imagination stop right there? Sakurai could never balance this out in a million years? And crazy range on the ground can't be balanced out with long startup times, low damage, or anything like that which would be expected of a weak ground character? Add some hyperbole, and we're perfect.

They are devoting a ridiculous amount of resources to balance as far as we've been told and shown. That is not going to end at Ridley, as much as you want to believe that Ridley is literally The Exception to common sense, game design, and balance.

Eh? You realize they sped up the footage in the direct by perhaps 2x or 4x right? Look at the glove and you'll see the 'aura' going way faster than normal and the crowd jerking about in super-speed. Mac definitely doesn't get 1-hits for free, that's for sure. Just because he can get it for getting hit doesn't mean it's free. Lucario got 'free' upgrades from Aura and he barely ever got to see it used.

I suppose I'll need a definition of 'multi-step' then as my thought was incorrect.

Projectile aerials are nothing new. Typically though they stopped movement or had long lagtimes to compensate for being able to project an attack from various angles. Megaman can shoot his uncharged buster three times(assuming the same as the games) while moving. These bullets pierce(I thought I saw them go through Fox in a segment of the Direct) as well. Megaman may be a balance problem too, I'm not saying he'll be fine. Ridley would be the same, except replace walking hitstun shots with incredible and repeatable melee reach beyond even Samus's grab range.

 

[Ultinarok]

So I was at work today and thinking...and I had an epiphany.

What if...we've been looking at this whole E3 thing the wrong way?

What if Sakurai and company decide to be devious? They fix the tournament battles so that the in-game requirement for unlocking Ridley (whether it be number of battles or something else) is fulfilled immediately after the championship round of the invitational is complete. So, when the player wins, he is thrown into a "Challenger Approaching!" battle...

...with Ridley, on Pyrosphere. He's fought as a "boss" (so the shadow on Pyrosphere wasn't just a tease but was actually foreshadowing to the tournament and the boss battle for the winner), and unlocked upon victory. Immediately after, Sakurai livestreams the official Ridley reveal trailer showing him in action.

Hope.

 

[UltimateWario]

Ridley is "Impossible Tier", in that he's so broken that he transcends game conventions and isn't even playable. They ban Ridley from tournaments for games he's not even featured in.

SSFIV? Ridley's banned.

Mahvel? Ridley's banned.

PSASBR? Ridley's banned.

Because be honest -- do you ever see anyone playing as Ridley in any of these games?

Exactly. It's because he's so broken.

~Ridley at the tournament~

This idea's actually been brought up several times around the forum, although never especially seriously.

 

[TitanTeaTime]

So I was at work today and thinking...and I had an epiphany.

What if...we've been looking at this whole E3 thing the wrong way?

What if Sakurai and company decide to be devious? They fix the tournament battles so that the in-game requirement for unlocking Ridley (whether it be number of battles or something else) is fulfilled immediately after the championship round of the invitational is complete. So, when the player wins, he is thrown into a "Challenger Approaching!" battle...

...with Ridley, on Pyrosphere. He's fought as a "boss" (so the shadow on Pyrosphere wasn't just a tease but was actually foreshadowing to the tournament and the boss battle for the winner), and unlocked upon victory. Immediately after, Sakurai livestreams the official Ridley reveal trailer showing him in action.

Hope.

You know what, that would be SO DAMN AWESOME but very unlikely but also SO AWESOME.
Plus we'd get to see what those battles would look like.

 

[SchAlternate]

I have this urge to just spam this thread with nonsense just to get to page 800.

Well, there's E3 for that, but...

 

[majora_787]

You mean the Ridley thread isn't regularly SOME kind of nonsense? :B

 

[Morbi]

I have this urge to just spam this thread with nonsense just to get to page 800.

Well, there's E3 for that, but...

There is no need to spam the thread with nonsense, we are already upon the aforementioned number, surely we can do 3 pages the day after today and Monday.

 

[Deleted member]

If Donkey Kong were standing, he'd be pretty damn tall as well.

View attachment 15687

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4584D3jA0w

That is quite disorienting....

 

[SchAlternate]

You mean the Ridley thread isn't regularly SOME kind of nonsense? :B

THERE'S NOT ENOUGH OF IT!! WE NEED MORE!!