Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Zero Suit Wario]

If he is a boss.. I don't want Sakurai to reveal it casually. For example, if we get a boss hazard montage revealing footage of some new ones, it would be awful if Ridley only got a brief spotlight. At the very least he should be confirmed in a special way because of the massive fan-base. Nothing is owed to us really, but I think it would be a better way of softening the blow.
Just to say though, I do want him in and I'm not sure what to expect.

 

[Reila]

This... Have grown quite tired of people belittling others who have any ounce of doubt of Ridley's inclusion, most of whom wanted him in beforehand. If we keep doing that and say Ridley gets the final nail on his status a few days later now, who in their right minds is going to take us seriously during SSB6 speculation or so forth? It took long enough for people to mostly forget about the pre-Brawl chaos that Ridley threads caused back then. Is this something we really want to be remembered for too? Think about it lads (and lasses).

While I agree with your point of view, sometimes it may be hard to not belittle (or feel tempted to) other's opinions, when they keep doing the exact same thing to our opinions. No, I am not saying we should pay back with the same coin, I just want to point out that it isn't an one-sided situation.

By the way, though I posted a few days ago that I would do my best to annoy the detractors, should Ridley be confirmed, I wouldn't really do that. I don't have the energy to go out of my way to give people hell, simply because they didn't agree with my points of view at some point. The most I could do is post a "told ya" and leave it at that.

 

[Morbi]

This... Have grown quite tired of people belittling others who have any ounce of doubt of Ridley's inclusion, most of whom wanted him in beforehand. If we keep doing that and say Ridley gets the final nail on his status a few days later now, who in their right minds is going to take us seriously during SSB6 speculation or so forth? It took long enough for people to mostly forget about the pre-Brawl chaos that Ridley threads caused back then. Is this something we really want to be remembered for too? Think about it lads (and lasses).

Perhaps I do want to remember the Ridley thread as the thread that induced so much chaos. I actually like that aspect about this thread and its supporters. It makes things that much more interesting. At the end of the day, it is just speculation for a video-game. People tend to take it more seriously than necessary.

 

[TheWozny]

This might have already been addressed, but after looking at the Pyrosphere stage, the direct, and Sakurai's posts I observed some things.

- Ridley WILL be in the game 100%, either as a boss or a playable character.

- The way he moves on Pyrosphere in the direct seemed awkward for several reasons
1. If he was as big as Ridley is (Sakurai is keeping this game detailed, and Boss ridley wouldn't be scaled down for any reasons that I see) then it would appear he would clip through the platforms on Pyrosphere, which wouldn't look visually appearing.
2. If he's a "smaller" version of a stage hazard, why? Why size down a non-playable boss character?
3. We've observed from several PotD's that Sakurai is paying very very very close attention to detail in this game. A YouTuber by the name of cephalopod17 noticed something about the boss fight seen here. In his Video, "Possible Metroid Newcomers for SSB4 - The Ridley Video" at 12:20 in the video, he makes a good point: in almost every Metroid game, except the original, Ridley's boss fights are extremely hectic. The direct showed us a slow moving object that didn't even acknowledge Pikachu. If Sakurai was really putting as much detail into SSB4 as we've seen, Ridley should be swooping around, clawing, fireball-ing, etc. You could argue this is to keep the game less hectic so you don't lose track, but stages in the past(Summit, Mario Circuit, Rumble Falls(Worst stage ever), etc.) have shown semi fast to fast stage hazards. This a good reason (in my opinion) why I really don't think he's just a boss.
4. We've only ever "seen" Ridley once. We've never seen him in any other screenshots, leaked footage, etc.

- The Size argument is complete bull**** in this game, and you all know it. Even Sakurai himself has said "Size doesn't matter." Yes, yes, I know what you're thinking. SOME THINGS ARE JUST TOO BIG TO EVEN BE IN THIS GAME. We can look at great examples of re-sizing in the past games, even inconsistencies.
1. The Chars. You've all heard about Kirby, Olimar, and Pikachu I'm sure. Instead of listing one's that aren't canon sizes in smash bros, let's list 1 char that is perfectly canon size in Smash...! No one. There's not a single char in this game who is the exact millimeter that they are in their canon (which, by the way, also is inconsistent.)
2. The Stages. Wozny, what do you mean? Luigi's mansion and Mario Circuit (assuming all chars in the Mario kart series fit in a kart, which Bowser would never on MC) were both sized down. So was Fountain of Dreams, the Arwings on all Starfox stages, And Mute Cuty. Things that have been sized up? Distant Planet, and the Bulbord.

- Character Deconfirmation. 90% of people, including myself, thought Toon Link was out when Spirit Tracks was revealed.... wait? He's playable! let's think about Deconfirmation in Smash, beginning with Melee. On the stage Corneria, when using Fox or Falco (even if both were there at once) taunting would cause the Starfox crew to contact the player. As Fox, Falco would be on the comm, and vice versa for Falco. So, what gives? Fox is there.. and here....? Obviously, he can't be playable. Next, on every Smash Bros. F-Zero stage, Falcon races in the background. Again, breaking the canon. DK appears on 75m, so why is he playable? Squirtle was literally part of a stage in SSBM (Pokefloats), then he became playable. So, back to the point, considering how we haven't even seen Riddles yet and people are deconfirming him is ridiculous. It's funny, because these are mostly the same people that thing a new FE stage means Chrom confirmed 111100000%.
- Lil Mac was shorter as an Assist Trophy than he is as a playable.
- Charizard, Ridley, and Dedede have been physically present in every SSB game. Charizard as a pokeball and char. Ridley seen flying in the BG of Planet Zebes on N64, in the intro of SSBM, and a boss in SSBB. Dedede as a BG effect for Dream World in both SSB64 and SSBM, and playable in SSBB.

- Sakurai. Yes, Sakurai. In the past few months, he has surely made the SB community happy(GC controller, FD mode on all stages, etc.) This man is fully aware that the Space Dragon is requested, how the hell would he miss it? In my opinion, he cares a lot about his fans, contrary to what people say, and he acknowledges the west's request for a fighter who fits the qualities of:
1. Iconic.
2. Important to their franchise.
3. Great Moveset Potential.
4. Popular.

To end it, Villager was once seen as an impossiblity because Sakurai himself stated AC characters are impossible because of their cuteness (I thought it was ironic with Pika, Yoshi and Kirby in the game). However, with his psychotic look, Villager is in SSB4.

Nobody should read this random post, say "This 17 year old kid posted that Ridley is in SSB4 as a fighter" , and get mad if he isn't. I'm being unbiased with the facts here. In my personal belief, yes. Ridley will be a Newcomer in SSB4.

Link to Ceph's Video on Ridley: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dhtUiobnfA4

 

[Morbi]

Conversely, I hate it when people say that anyone believing he will still be in is "in denial" especially when they were once supporters of Ridley.

Apparently everyone is in denial. The supporters, the detractors, and those that are neutral. So if we are all in denial, it does not really mean much as we share that attribute with one another.

 

[8-peacock-8]

Were all in denial. Clearly Ridley will have no spot in the game despite gameplay showing his shadow!

 

[praline]

Ridley is totally gonna be playable.

 

[majora_787]

The thing is, I see more respect here for people who think he might not be playable than I do outside this thread toward people who think he might be. This is not new. This is as old as Brawl's announcement. We've always been delusional asshole psychopaths for wanting a character in the game. At no point have people taken us seriously, and the only way they would take us seriously would be if literally nobody displayed interest in wanting Ridley in the game.

Is being what they already think we are what we want to be remembered for? Of course not. But even abandoning any hope or interest for playable Ridley wouldn't actually make anyone think differently of us. Then we would just be those crazy delusional morons who THOUGHT Ridley ever had a chance, unlike the enlightened saints who always knew better.

No, we shouldn't act like assholes to detractors or people with doubts because they have doubts. But really, I think people REALLY overestimate the possibility of people suddenly going "You know maybe we were all wrong and those people aren't insane or delusional". Humoring the select detractors who come out to say things that are absolutely ridiculous (I know for a fact Ridley will not be playable, I'll bet my account on it, I can tell Sakurai is obviously pandering to anti-Ridley fans, etc) won't get us 'brownie points' and neither will not liking our favorite characters.

And really, even if they did, do we want those brownie points? It's not like they'll add up to anything.

TL;DR, it really doesn't matter what anti-Ridleys think of us at any point because we're just people who have spent eight years being chastised for wanting our favorite character in Smash Bros. like everyone else. We may need to change our behavior for the better sometimes, but we're not exactly The Problem.

EDIT: And before a single person even makes a vague attempt to interpret that as "People who don't like Ridley are the problem", no. People who wander around picking fights with people who DO like Ridley, presumably because they have literally nothing better to do, are The Problem.

 

[Kenith]

Apparently everyone is in denial. The supporters, the detractors, and those that are neutral. So if we are all in denial, it does not really mean much as we share that attribute with one another.

Apparently?

 

[Morbi]

Ridley is totally gonna be playable.

I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. I cannot wait to see his play-style.

 

[Reila]

Apparently everyone is in denial. The supporters, the detractors, and those that are neutral. So if we are all in denial, it does not really mean much as we share that attribute with one another.

Even Sakurai and Ridley themselves are in denial.

 

[SchAlternate]

I just realized I just wasted my 2000th post here. Oops.

 

[aldelaro5]

While I do think Sakurai is oblivious sometimes, I don't think he is in regards to Ridley. There's just no way anyone can misinterpret the enormous and all devouring subject that is Ridley, he dominates the majority of character discussions for each game, and Sakurai has likely heard the complaints about Ridley's role in Brawl too. Heck, I'm certain he knew about the demand for a playable Ridley for Brawl too, he just chose to not deliver back then, which was no big deal since he gave us almost every other highly requested character anyways, Sonic included.

You can say many things about Sakurai and his decisions, you can give him all the hate in the world over tripping itself or w/e, but if there's one thing even I can see, it's that he understands the fanbase's character requests. The way he interacted with us through the Direct, the way he teased Palutena and Ridley, Sakurai knows how to communicate with us, he speaks our language, it's very obvious. There's no way he has simply misinterpreted that we want Ridley as a playable character and not a boss.

Anyways, I'm off to bed now.

Your point is good and I'm not going to lie, tomorrow would be my last post before E3 in this thread.

Just to tease you, it's going to be a big opinion post on ridley as I see about his chance. I said awhile ago that I should stop saying it because of how terrible the debate conditions are on this subject. However, as E3 is coming really soon, I would feel bad to not do it when we should expect both possibilities and because I should show at least some support here. Not to mention that I don't expect people to flame me when E3 started but I will just don't care. There's clearly some facts that are ignored and some belief that seems quite odd to be considered likely imo and I have to tell them before this thread explodes for any reasons. If I'm wrong, good I'll assume it but if the facts are provable, I shouldn't get flamed for it.

Just going to tell you that it's a favourable opinion towards him and that the whole controversy shouldn't exist and that the direct discussion shouldn't even be considered as a 100% sure on his fate. The prior controversy is a big reason on why people are so sure about his deconfirmation.

So, tomorrow, it would be the day that I'll drop the big bomb-omb (to steal an expression someone used while arguing with me).

In the mean time, for those who feels doubtful on his chance even tough that you want it, this is a great time to consider both possibilities and take what is confirmed as granted. I checked every potd since E3 2013 and it really took me back to all early info we learned and I still think that this game would be awesome but I shouldn't take what I hope for granted and move on to accept what will be presented to me.

 

[AndreaAC]

Just for reference...
View attachment 15655

xD just a random thingy...also, I think @Dalek_Kolt knows where I got that pose from....

 

[Morbi]

Your point is good and I'm not going to lie, tomorrow would be my last post before E3 in this thread.

Just to tease you, it's going to be a big opinion post on ridley as I see about his chance. I said awhile ago that I should stop saying it because of how terrible the debate conditions are on this subject. However, as E3 is coming really soon, I would feel bad to not do it when we should expect both possibilities and because I should show at least some support here. Not to mention that I don't expect people to flame me when E3 started but I will just don't care. There's clearly some facts that are ignored and some belief that seems quite odd to be considered likely imo and I have to tell them before this thread explodes for any reasons. If I'm wrong, good I'll assume it but if the facts are provable, I shouldn't get flamed for it.

Just going to tell you that it's a favourable opinion towards him and that the whole controversy shouldn't exist and that the direct discussion shouldn't even be considered as a 100% sure on his fate. The prior controversy is a big reason on why people are so sure about his deconfirmation.

So, tomorrow, it would be the day that I'll drop the big bomb-omb (to steal an expression someone used while arguing with me).

In the mean time, for those who feels doubtful on his chance even tough that you want it, this is a great time to consider both possibilities and take what is confirmed as granted. I checked every potd since E3 2013 and it really took me back to all early info we learned and I still think that this game would be awesome but I shouldn't take what I hope for granted and move on to accept what will be presented to me.

If you have a favorable opinion pertaining to Ridley, why would you get flamed in this thread? We like it when people come here to support Ridley. Or at least I believe that we do, albeit I am not entirely sure on that one.

 

[praline]

I agree with this sentiment wholeheartedly. I cannot wait to see his play-style.

I'm excited to see his reveal trailer.

 

[aldelaro5]

If you have a favorable opinion pertaining to Ridley, why would you get flamed in this thread? We like it when people come here to support Ridley. Or at least I believe that we do, albeit I am not entirely sure on that one.

I stopped to tell my opinion because some people do come here that when they do tell it, it just get messy mainly because we have to constantly reminds them of the facts.

I know supporter will like it but this thread isn't always us hopping this thread got a lot of heated discussion that shouldn't be there.

 

[majora_787]

Heated discussion? Here? Never. You act like it got closed and banned or s...

...Right, right, yeah.

 

[Ridley_Prime]

Conversely, I hate it when people say that anyone believing he will still be in is "in denial" especially when they were once supporters of Ridley.

I kinda do too, but trying to shoot down anyone who isn't like-minded certainly isn't any better, and if anything, just helps prove them right.

People took us seriously before? People take us seriously NOW?

That's news to me. Really, I'm being 100% honest here.

Is hardly even the case now, and will be even less so by SSB6, I guess is what I was partly getting at.

And without quoting your other post, you misunderstand/misjudge me completely if you think I'm saying we should ultimately appease the few loud detractors by giving up on Ridley for the long haul. I wasn't even talking about them. I just don't want history to repeat itself by the majority of us not learning a lesson in humility until it's too late.

 

[majora_787]

I kinda do too, but trying to shoot down anyone who isn't like-minded certainly isn't any better, and if anything, just helps prove them right.


Is hardly even the case now, and will be even less so by SSB6, I guess is what I was partly getting at.

And without quoting your other post, you misunderstand/misjudge me completely if you think I'm saying we should ultimately appease the few loud detractors by giving up on Ridley for the long haul. I wasn't even talking about them. I just don't want history to repeat itself by the majority of us not learning a lesson in humility until it's too late.

You say "few", but the last person who didn't support Ridley who also didn't make an attempt to say "You're wrong / stupid / delusional" who I've seen in the last month at least was that last guy who showed up earlier. History is not going to stop repeating itself at any point. People are going to decide that we're morons for wanting a character in a video game, and we're going to always be assholes because for some strange reason we won't be happy with that. The only lesson we could really learn from this at best is "Have hobbies more quietly so angry people don't find out about it".

This is not different from how it was in 2006, this is not different from how it's going to be in 2020. It will be people being mad at the same people for liking things they don't like, and those same people being defensive because a decade is a long time to put up with.

I'm honestly just happy to see how many Ridley supporters don't even care to hunt down detractors and are satisfied with having Ridley at this point.

 

[aldelaro5]

Heated discussion? Here? Never. You act like it got closed and banned or s...

...Right, right, yeah.

How many times I saw some people here claiming that ridley was already deconfirmed and saying that we are "delusional"? Way too much considering the circumstances especially if the odds of the opposite happening can be proved to be 50%. I didn't want to argue when people think me as delusional if I can prove that my hope can happen it's just not enjoyable to discuss so I let the time pass.

 

[Morbi]

You say "few", but the last person who didn't support Ridley who also didn't make an attempt to say "You're wrong / stupid / delusional" who I've seen in the last month at least was that last guy who showed up earlier. History is not going to stop repeating itself at any point. People are going to decide that we're morons for wanting a character in a video game, and we're going to always be *******s because for some strange reason we won't be happy with that. The only lesson we could really learn from this at best is "Have hobbies more quietly so angry people don't find out about it".

This is not different from how it was in 2006, this is not different from how it's going to be in 2020. It will be people being mad at the same people for liking things they don't like, and those same people being defensive because a decade is a long time to put up with.

I'm honestly just happy to see how many Ridley supporters don't even care to hunt down detractors and are satisfied with having Ridley at this point.

History will cease to repeat itself in three days.

 

[majora_787]

How many times I saw some people here claiming that ridley was already deconfirmed and saying that we are "delusional"? Way too much considering the circumstances especially if the odds of the opposite happening can be proved to be 50%. I didn't want to argue when people think me as delusional if I can prove that my hope can happen it's just not enjoyable to discuss so I let the time pass.

Is this the part where I say "But it adds to our page count"?

But seriously. The lesson we should be learning and I'm thankful we are learning is the main reason we're even here is because we want to see Ridley as a playable character. I've seen a good decrease in the number of people who have "Showing those Detractors ___" no longer be part of their hopes here.

The ability for us to hopefully get a break, and leave the situation alone to die by itself while we enjoy what we wanted is basically the best outcome we can get out of this.

EDIT: I sure hope it does. And I believe that it will. I'm so tired of all of these shenanigans.

 

[AustarusIV]

Conversely, I hate it when people say that anyone believing he will still be in is "in denial" especially when they were once supporters of Ridley.

This.

People who jumped on the Ridley bandwagon, claiming that they were supporters of Ridley, and then immediately jumped ship after the Direct and turned into detractors are worse than the Toobigots.

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

So I went ahead and did some work for a bit and now I've got a few dozen more pages to sift through. Fun, fun, fun! So because I feel suicidal, I think I'll address some points I've seen in this thread.

They weren't.

But no, seriously. Get a mega mushroom and play as Pikachu on a large stage against Ganondorf or something and move at most by using Pikachu's half-walking speed. No dodge rolling or running. It's a ridiculously avoidable speed to be moving around or attacking at. Brawl bosses were much more mobile while still not being impossible.

Brawl bosses also had the fact that they were the only target on-screen that you were concerned with. These Boss Hazards are going to be interrupting 1v1s, team fights, and FFAs. They can't be as aggressive and vicious as they were in Brawl because they would totally disrupt the fight if they were. They're meant to be a fun one-off that you can square with and maybe score a bonus out of if you do topple it. They're supposed to show up to be punching bags that fight back now and again, not full-fledged challenges.

I'm going to be that guy. What Boss characters have been shown so far for SSB4? Here's a list so far of every character who technically a boss character in their games:

Andross

• Where: Star Fox/Starwing (Mechanic form, Final Boss), Star Fox 64 (Organic form, Final Boss) [Remake: Star Fox 64 (Organic form, Final Boss)], Star Fox Adventures (Final Boss).
• Status: Assist Trophy.
• Stage: Any.

Bowser

• Where: Pretty much the majority of the main Super Mario games, often a final boss; Super Smash Bros. Melee (Final Boss, Adventure Mode).
• Status: Playable.
• Stage: Any.

Charizard

• Where: Pokémon Blue, Green, Red, Yellow - Rival Blue/Green (If you chose Bulbasaur as a starter) [Remake: Pokémon Leaf Green and Fire Red - Rival Blue/Green (If you chose Bulbasaur as a starter)]; Pokémon Gold, Silver, Crystal - Champion Red [Remake: Pokémon Heart Gold and Soul Silver - Champion Red]; Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 - Champion Red.

Yes I do count rivals, gym leaders, elite four members and champions as "bosses" in Pokémon games, because technically they are bosses.

• Status: Playable.
• Stage: Any.

Dark Emperor

• Where: StreetPass Quest II / Find Mii II (Secret Quest, Final Boss).
• Status: Stage Hazard (Boss).
• Stage: Find Mii (SSB4 3DS).

Dark Samus

• Where: Metroid Prime (As Metroid Prime, Final Boss), Metroid Prime 2 Echoes (Boss (numerous times), Final Boss), Metroid Prime 3 Corruption (Boss).
• Status: Assist Trophy.
• Stage: Any.

Donkey Kong

• Where: Mario Vs. Donkey Kong games - Main Boss (The Donkey Kong in the original Donkey Kong games is a different Donkey Kong, now known as Cranky Kong, so nope that won't count).
• Status: Playable.
• Stage: Any.

Kamek

• Where: Super Mario World 2: Yoshi's Island [remake: Super Mario Advance 3: Yoshi Island] (Main Boss), Super Princess Peach (Boss), Mario & Luigi: Partners in Time (Boss), Paper Mario: Sticker Star (Boss), Mario & Luigi: Dream Team (Boss) and Yoshi's New Island (Boss).
• Stage Hazard (Cause).
• Stage: Mushroom Kingdom U (SSB4 WiiU).

King Dedede

• Where: Kirby's Dream Land (Final Boss), Kirby's Adventure (Boss)[Remake: Kirby: Nightmare in Dream Land (Boss)], Kirby's Dream Land 2 (Boss), Kirby Super Star (Spring Breeze: Final Boss, Samurai Kirby (Final Boss), Arena (Boss)) [Kirby Super Star Ultra (Spring Breeze: Final Boss, Samurai Kirby (Final Boss), Arena (Boss)], Kirby's Dream Land 3 (Boss), Kirby's Pinball Land (Boss), Kirby's Avalanche (Final Boss), Kirby's Dream Course (Only Boss), Kirby 64: The Crystal Shards (Boss), Kirby's Epic Yarn (Boss), Kirby Mass Attack (Boss), and

Spoiler

Kirby: Triple Deluxe (Boss)

• Status: Playable.
• Stage: Any.

Kotake and Koume (Twinrova)

• Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time [Remake: Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D] (Boss), Oracle of Ages and Oracle of Seasons (Linked through password, Boss).
• Stage Hazard (Cause).
• Stage: Gerudo Valley (SSB4 3DS).

Lucario

• Where: Pokémon Diamond, Pearl and Platinum - Gym Leader Maylene, Sinnoh Champion Cynthia; Pokémon Heart Gold and Soul Silver - Elite Four Bruno; Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 - Gym Leader Maylene, Sinnoh Champion Cynthia; Pokémon X and Pokémon Y - Gym Leader Korrina; Pokémon Ranger: Shadows of Almia (Boss).
• Status: Playable.
• Stage: Any.

Mother Brain

• Where: Metroid (Final Boss) [Remake: Metroid: Zero Mission (Boss)), Super Metroid (Final Boss), Metroid Other M (in her MB form, a pathetic one-shot to kill boss =/)
• Status: Assist Trophy.
• Stage: Any.

Pikachu

• Where: Pokémon Blue, Green, Red, Yellow - Gym Leader Lt. Surge [Remake: Pokémon Leaf Green and Fire Red - Gym Leader Lt. Surge]; Pokémon Gold, Silver, Crystal - Champion Red [Remake: Pokémon Heart Gold and Soul Silver - Champion Red]; Pokémon Black 2 and White 2 - Champion Red.
• Status: Playable.
• Stage: Any.

Ridley

• Where: Metroid (Boss) [Remake: Metroid Zero Mission (Boss)], Metroid Prime (Boss), Metroid Prime: Pinball (Boss), Metroid Prime 3: Corruption (Boss x2), Super Metroid (Boss), Metroid: Other M (Boss), Metroid: Fusion (Boss), Super Smash Bros. Brawl (Boss x2: Ridley and Meta Ridley).
• Status: ???
• Stage: ???

Skull Kid

• Where: Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask (Boss, Final Boss).
• Status: Assist Trophy.
• Stage: Any.

Yellow Devil

• Where: Megaman (Boss) [Remake: Mega Man Powered Up (Boss)], Mega Man: The Power Battle (Penultimate Boss), Mega Man 2: The Power Fighters (Penultimate Boss).
• Status: Stage Hazard (Boss).
• Stage: Wily's Castle (SSB4 WiiU).

Plus a whole load of Legendary Pokémon as Poké Ball/Master Ball Pokémon that you can technically call "bosses".

Likely to return:

Ganondorf

• Where: Pretty much the majority of the Legend of Zelda games, often a final boss (In his Ganon form). Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time and remake Legend of Zelda: Ocarina of Time 3D are the two games where his humanoid form (Ganondorf) appear as Final Boss.
• Status: ??? (likely to return as playable character)
• Stage: Any.

Meta Knight

• Where: Kirby's Adventure (Boss), Kirby Super Star (Revenge of Meta Knight, Final Boss) [Remake: Kirby Super Star Ultra (Revenge of Meta Knight, Final Boss)], Kirby & the Amazing Mirror (Dark Meta Knight, Boss), Kirby: Mouse Attack/Squeak Squad (Boss), Kirby's Epic Yarn (Boss), Kirby Mass Attack (Boss), and

Spoiler

Kirby Triple Deluxe (Dark Meta Knight, Dedede Tour, Final Boss)

• Status: ??? (likely to return as a playable character)
• Stage: Any.

Other characters who have been in Super Smash Bros. previously:

Mewtwo

• Where: Pokémon Blue, Green, Red, Yellow - wild, Cerulean Cave [Remake: Pokémon Leaf Green and Fire Red - wild, Cerulean Cave], Pokémon Stadium (Final Boss) and Pokémon Pinball (Final Boss), Pokémon Puzzle League (Boss).
• Status: ??? (Previously: Playable)
• Stage: ??? (Previously: Any)

Wow, that's a lot of "Boss Characters [that] appear on other stages... not just [Wily's Castle]"
(I know this is just a grasping at straws theory, but man is it funny. Technically, Sakurai wouldn't be lying, especially with a playable Ridley)

:bisonyes: Finally, something with meat to pound on.

You are torturing the context of that statement beyond reality. I have never seen words twisted so hard. If we can agree that the Yellow Devil is a Boss Hazard, and that Sakurai then stated 'other boss characters appear' whilst in the segment featuring the Yellow Devil, then the shadow he'd shown during it was in some way related to a Boss Hazard. Somehow, I don't think they would say, 'here's a boss of Pyrosphere' and then not show the boss. It wasn't a direct look, no, but that's just what you do when you tease graphics upgrades. You let the folk know they're THERE, and that they're gonna be glorious 1080p with crisp textures and oh man aren't you hype yet?

How does ZSS hurts Ridley's chances? If we're going by this, Rosalina shouldn't be in and Mewtwo would be deconfirmed

ZSS was introduced to the game at a time when Ridley fever had every right to take hold. It'd been two games, no new Metroid rep, and the Prime Series was working like gangbusters to win people over to enjoying the adventures of Samus. If Ridley was going to be made playable, THEN was the time. Instead, they decided on an alt-form of Samus gotten from using a weapon she'd never had. I think it's that which delegates Ridley to Boss Hazard now. A lot of effort is going into Multi-Player, and maybe Boss Hazards are the evolution of Boss Battles in Brawl, except now they occur during fights rather than being a fight unto themselves.

All that remains is whether Ridley is a big beefy newcomer or a scrawny little boss.

Maybe he gets upsized for his Boss Hazard role? After all, the Direct did state things were in flux, and that little was set in stone. Maybe the Ridley model they had was a placeholder while they finished the final product. Not uncommon at all, especially for special events and announcements(that may not factor into dev times, as some developers will certainly attest to).

Just to prove my point.

View attachment 15642

Ridley is pretty much the smallest major boss in Super Metroid.

Actually, his size here kind of remind me of @Dalek_Kolt 's size comparison for some reason...

That's because Mother Brain bothered to stand up. If Ridley stood up, he'd be MB's height easily.

Provided Ridley's size, this raises so many questions. If he is a boss, then why would he be so small? On top of that, his movement speed is clocked at just barely faster than Pikachu's half-walking speed, which is the second slowest speed Pikachu is able to move at. This is easily determined by the animation. When fighting a boss or in a match, everyone will be moving at FULL SPEED around this stage. Fast characters with projectiles will be VERY easily able to break a boss battle against a Bowser-sized Ridley moving through the air at a slow speed.

And why the platforms? The platforms make it even worse, unless they're for RIDLEY to use because of how small he is.

This is why I have said numerous times. The most disappointing thing of Ridley's deconfirmation won't be Ridley not being playable. From what we've seen, he won't even be an enjoyable boss.

EDIT: Unless of course, what we saw in the direct was completely different from Ridley as a boss.

But then where does *THAT* leave us?

Platforms are so characters without projectiles can hit a flying target without having to burn too many jumps/UpB just to hit it.

To your second inquiry, Ridley WOULDN'T be going full-tilt around the stage in a match because Boss Hazards SHOULDN'T interfere with the match TOO much. They're not the focus of the fight, just an aspect of the stage! There's a difference between showing up, zoning an area for a bit, and shooting a few slow blasts whilst getting knocked around(Yellow Devil), and going Insane-difficulty Meta Ridley Boss Battle-mode and smashing the stage down every 4-5 seconds.

But NES Kraid doesn't count because it's more convenient for my already petty and baseless size argument for us to pretend he doesn't exist!

NES had limitations. If you wanted a mobile character, it probably wasn't going to be the size of R-Type's bosses.

While I'm hesitant to believe those approximate sizes, it would be pretty amazing if Ridley ends up being playable the same size as Super Metroid Ridley.

It'd be ridiculous. He'd either have the longest reach in the game by far and be totally busted, or he'd have to be slow as heck(hey remember what Sakurai said?) and he'd get zoned out by everyone, really, really hard. I've also seen the idea that he perma-flies. What? What kind of nonsense do you have going on that you believe that to be anywhere near balanced? If Pyrosphere does indeed flood with lava(as Metroid levels are want to do), that means Ridley gets essentially a free period of time where he can do whatever he wants and the opponent has no approach options unless they want to take damage and potential combos, and that's just on one stage! Who in their right mind wants to fight that? Ridley's flight pattern suggests a constant levitation, which indicates perma-flight, which points toward Boss Hazard.

Whew, that was fun. Soon, we'll all know who'll be the disappointed ones, you or I(probably me, but hey, I've got a good feeling about this).

 

[Kenith]

Brawl bosses also had the fact that they were the only target on-screen that you were concerned with. These Boss Hazards are going to be interrupting 1v1s, team fights, and FFAs. They can't be as aggressive and vicious as they were in Brawl because they would totally disrupt the fight if they were. They're meant to be a fun one-off that you can square with and maybe score a bonus out of if you do topple it. They're supposed to show up to be punching bags that fight back now and again, not full-fledged challenges

This a million times. While I don't necessarily think Ridley is just a hazard, the fact that people come to that conclusion because he "moves funny" or too slowly is unfortunately grasping at straws.

 

[Morbi]

This.

People who jumped on the Ridley bandwagon, claiming that they were supporters of Ridley, and then immediately jumped ship after the Direct and turned into detractors are worse than the Toobigots.

I am also an aspect of the issue; for instance, I joined when everyone else jumped ship.

 

[majora_787]

There is a better balance to strike than making a boss who is the size of a playable character and moves more slowly than any playable character. People will all stop to attempt to defeat the boss in hopes of getting the boss defeat perk, which is the goal Sakurai has displayed having in mind for bosses. And if you make a boss so poorly set up that ONE character can defeat them easily, when everyone in the match converges on them it's not even a boss. Ridley would LITERALLY be the second coming of Birdo.

 

[Niko Mar]

I want Ridley to be a boxer and play like Dudley.

"Gutter Trash!"

 

[AustarusIV]

I can excuse Ridley's exclusion from Brawl by the fact that we got a lot of hype-inducing newcomers for that game. Zero Suit Samus was probably also included because she would have been easier to create than Ridley.

This game doesn't have much of an excuse.

 

[EbonyRubberWolf]

There is a better balance to strike than making a boss who is the size of a playable character and moves more slowly than any playable character. People will all stop to attempt to defeat the boss in hopes of getting the boss defeat perk, which is the goal Sakurai has displayed having in mind for bosses. And if you make a boss so poorly set up that ONE character can defeat them easily, when everyone in the match converges on them it's not even a boss. Ridley would LITERALLY be the second coming of Birdo.

Did you SEE how fast YD went down in the Direct? That's the point, they're basically an alternative Smash Ball that does a single unique thing rather than being tied to your character. It's not supposed to be a 10-minute drawn-out fight, it should be relatively quick to be done with if you know what you're doing.

 

[Morbi]

I can excuse Ridley's exclusion from Brawl by the fact that we got a lot of hype-inducing newcomers for that game. Zero Suit Samus was probably also included because she would have been easier to create than Ridley.

This game doesn't have much of an excuse.

I suppose it does not; however, back in the day, I thought that Melee did not have an excuse to not include Ridley.

 

[majora_787]

... And I'm sorry, are we doing the "Nothing is set in stone" thing as a convenient catch-all to attempt to prove anything wrong? This argument... "argument", sorry, doesn't go anywhere. It devolves straight to "SSB4 could be cancelled! Nothing is set in stone, after all!"

Not only that, but you combined this with "Ridley is unfinished", which relied on Sakurai and everyone making the game to be SO INCOMPETENT as to need more than eight months to finish one stage hazard.

And on top of *THAT*, but we're getting into this weird branch of things where we're saying "Well maybe the Ridley we were shown doesn't exist and the actual Ridley is actually twice as big". Are we going for an olympic medal in being ridiculous?

EDIT: Oh sorry. So you're saying that Sakurai is deliberately hyping up punching bags that show up on stage, die in three hits(or "ten seconds"), and otherwise don't do anything. This is such an astonishing high quality feature. If it were explained just like that, I cannot FATHOM how this wouldn't excite literally everyone.

Thanks Sakurai! We're all glad you hyped up a Yellow Devil and Ridley skin for Sandbag! (You probably don't realize how ridiculous this is, but hey. I tried.)

 

[aldelaro5]

I can excuse Ridley's exclusion from Brawl by the fact that we got a lot of hype-inducing newcomers for that game. Zero Suit Samus was probably also included because she would have been easier to create than Ridley.

This game doesn't have much of an excuse.

I have a personal theory concerning SSE. The fact that SSE took so much priority did influenced what kind of content we got in the game. For example, why not having the lower norfair music but yes to the mp2 multiplayer battle music? Why an M&L music that sounds bland (where I can pick other music from the series that is not) but no to ANY Paper Mario music? It's just sounds so weird to me that I think the same happened with ridley (I even saw someone that proved that it was a copy of the dyna blade). If this theory is true, then, if he's boss hazard in this game, that would be for a completely different reason.

 

[Soupenomics]

I want Ridley to be a boxer and play like Dudley.

"Gutter Trash!"

I call it Rudley.

 

[majora_787]

I swear to god I get gray hair from this thread sometimes. I needed Boxley.

 

[Backgammon]

You say "few", but the last person who didn't support Ridley who also didn't make an attempt to say "You're wrong / stupid / delusional" who I've seen in the last month at least was that last guy who showed up earlier.

Seriously? If that's the case, that's worrying. I haven't sifted through all 792 pages and I don't plan to, but that's just downright worrying to me. As far as I can see, you're not harming anyone else with this and Ridley discussion generally doesn't take itself outside of this thread.

On topic:
The Yellow Devil is a different case, I feel. If you notice during YD's "reveal" in the Direct, the characters swapped. When he was first being introduced, Mega Man wasn't fighting him. When he's killed, he is. Because of this, we don't really have a time frame for just how quickly the Yellow Devil dies. Just wanted to point that out.

Also, you guys are actually winning me over, stop.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

BLUUUUUUUUUH
Hurry UP E3

 

[majora_787]

Seriously? If that's the case, that's worrying. I haven't sifted through all 792 pages and I don't plan to, but that's just downright worrying to me. As far as I can see, you're not harming anyone else with this and Ridley discussion generally doesn't take itself outside of this thread.

On topic:
The Yellow Devil is a different case, I feel. If you notice during YD's "reveal" in the Direct, the characters swapped. When he was first being introduced, Mega Man wasn't fighting him. When he's killed, he is. Because of this, we don't really have a time frame for just how quickly the Yellow Devil dies. Just wanted to point that out.

Also, you guys are actually winning me over, stop.

To be fair, I wander in and out of the Ridley thread to a host of other forums, websites, and chatrooms. So I'm not talking about just the Ridley thread when I say that.

I'm sorry, we put too many points into charisma when we made our accounts

 

[Ridley_Prime]

You say "few", but the last person who didn't support Ridley who also didn't make an attempt to say "You're wrong / stupid / delusional" who I've seen in the last month at least was that last guy who showed up earlier. History is not going to stop repeating itself at any point. People are going to decide that we're morons for wanting a character in a video game, and we're going to always be *******s because for some strange reason we won't be happy with that. The only lesson we could really learn from this at best is "Have hobbies more quietly so angry people don't find out about it".

This is not different from how it was in 2006, this is not different from how it's going to be in 2020. It will be people being mad at the same people for liking things they don't like, and those same people being defensive because a decade is a long time to put up with.

By few, I meant the people a lot of us love to talk about that make anti-Ridley videos on youtube and such. But yeah, dinowhatever wasn't being disrespectful when he showed here earlier, so much as some of us were being to him. And when I mentioned history repeating itself, I meant in regards to most of us becoming desperate/frantic buttmad fanatics, not what the haters/detractors think.

I'm honestly just happy to see how many Ridley supporters don't even care to hunt down detractors and are satisfied with having Ridley at this point.

Like how Hotfeet and one or two others constantly go out of their way to argue with detractors on youtube or someplace and sometimes end up bringing 'em here? Well, at least that's not a majority of 'em.

Is this the part where I say "But it adds to our page count"?

But seriously. The lesson we should be learning and I'm thankful we are learning is the main reason we're even here is because we want to see Ridley as a playable character. I've seen a good decrease in the number of people who have "Showing those Detractors ___" no longer be part of their hopes here.

The ability for us to hopefully get a break, and leave the situation alone to die by itself while we enjoy what we wanted is basically the best outcome we can get out of this.

EDIT: I sure hope it does. And I believe that it will. I'm so tired of all of these shenanigans.

That much I can agree on.

This.

People who jumped on the Ridley bandwagon, claiming that they were supporters of Ridley, and then immediately jumped ship after the Direct and turned into detractors are worse than the Toobigots.

They're not detractors, so much as they are people just having doubts about a character they wanted based on evidence against them at this point. Calling others delusional for still believing is douchebaggery though, yeah.