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Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

Arcanir

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Hey all of you Ridley supporters, I wanted to ask you a quick question or two. I've been wanting to get into Metroid lately because I realize Samus is a bad*** and Ridley is one of the best villains ever, and I've always been interested in the plot in the series and how there's an actual timeline, kinda like Zelda. But I, of course, am not too familiar with the series, and I assume most of you are quite familiar with it due to supporting Ridley so much. I wanted to ask which of yhe Metroid games you would say is a good start or which games you thought were the best. All I know is to not start with Metroid: Other M. Speaking of that actually, why was that game hated on so much? Was it really just because Samus talks for once or is it because how she is portrayed? All I really know is that Team Ninja made it instead of Retro and it was based off of the manga, I think.
Zero Mission I'd suggest to be a first game as it's a remake of the original first game (so you start with the first chronologically), allows for everything Metroid is known for such as sequence breaking and exploration, as well as having a hint system that can be taken advantage of if you get lost. So it makes for a really great game to start off.

Other then that, Super, Fusion, and Prime are also excellent choices to start off the series with, Fusion in particular was my first and it was a great entry for me to get into the franchise.
 
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PlasmaPuffball

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Thanks for the input guys! I think I'll start with Super Metroid after reading your suggestions. Then probably do Metroid Prime and Metroid Fusion. I don't mind that it's out or order chronologically. Pretty excited to play them, watching my friends play Metroid Prime 3 kinda got me pumped to try it out (though Hypermode scares me). Kinda hoping they announce a new Metroid at E3 now. But once again, thanks!
 

aldelaro5

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I'm not a "hardcore" Metroid fan, but what seems integral to the mindset of a fan is speedrunning and exploiting shortcuts to complete the game faster. Fusion has no such shortcuts, except for one hard-to-pull-off sequence break that accomplishes nothing.

A beginner Metroid fan when faced with too high a wall would seek some hi-jump boots. A speedrunner pulls an infinite bomb jump or Shinespark.
oh this is something I can talk about.

I can tell that for a guy who has been following quite closely the speedrunning community for like 2 years that you basically CANNOT compare the way you play as a speedrunner and normally.

In fact, I lived it for trying to speedrun minish cap but this is true for all games. As a normal player, you can play both way. But as a speedrunner, you just can't fo back to the way you played normally. You are so used to glitch and sequence break that you can't even enjoy the game as before. That's why they recommend to fully enjoy the game casually before speedruning it. For me, comparing these 2 way of playing is like comparing competitive and casual in smash: there;s no right way but different one.

It's true however that super metroid is VERY speedrunning friendly (still today it's raced a lot of speedrunslive) but saying that super metroid is better because of this is like saying that ocarina of time is better because it has a lot of glitches (it;s super broken you can even finish the game in like 20-30 minutes).

It's like me who glitch hunted 6 months on TTYD to help this community. I can't say that another game is better because I enjoyed it as a glitch hunter.

TL;DR, you shouldn't review a game based on how a niche way of playing is friendly but the game itself.

Yeah, Metroid music does a REALLY good job of immersing you in the game. It's one of the things that Metroid games, for the most part, universally do.

Being linear isn't necessarily a problem, it's just a problem with Metroid, which is usually a series that normally encourages exploration and trying to do things out of the norm. The game has you set on a linear path, but most of the good Metroid games let you do things out of order. I mean, Super Metroid, with a bit of skill, technique and luck, you can beat the main bosses in reverse order. And, yeah, that means fighting Ridley first, who's normally the second to last major boss. That's friggin' wild.

Some of the later Metroid games, unfortunately, don't follow that tradition and it's earned a lot of disdain as a result.. but they're still by and large good games.
If it's just a tradition problem I can take it but it's not what will determine my way of seeing them (heck I actually like when someone tries to break tradition as long as it's better in the long run).
 
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ChunkyBeef

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If it's just a tradition problem I can take it but it's not what will determine my way of seeing them (heck I actually like when someone tries to break tradition as long as it's better in the long run).
Yeah, if you've never played a Metroid game, you won't notice or care that it's linear and that it should be otherwise. I mean, even the more linear games still have merit to them. For example, people love the Prime series to death.
 

aldelaro5

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Yeah, if you've never played a Metroid game, you won't notice or care that it's linear and that it should be otherwise. I mean, even the more linear games still have merit to them. For example, people love the Prime series to death.
I forgot to mention that I played super metroid, all the metroid prime series, little of metroid 2 and quite some fusion. I liked super metroid but I like SO MUCH the prime series. It's like FPS but based on exploration which is what I like.
 

majora_787

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I come back to several pages of people accusing a two-time villain of being the Metroid series antagonist and people calling Fusion a great starting game for the series. The world is burning. Life has become neither nice Norfair why did I continue this

Ridley puns make things okay again though. That's ridley nice.
 

Zem-raj

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Today's PotD just went up, and thankfully it's nothing to do with Ridley.

6 more PotD, then we'll see what's up at E3.

Hopefully the thing that's up will be Ridley flying and then landing on the stage, confirmed as a playable character.
 

Koopaul

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Expect the worst, hope for the best. I've been bracing myself for a Ridley reveal that is incredibly stupid.

So what do you think is the worst way he could show Ridley at E3?

Me? Imagine a quick 1 second clip of him as a stage hazard in a trailer and then never mentioned again at E3. How disrespectful that would be!
 

AustarusIV

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Expect the worst, hope for the best. I've been bracing myself for a Ridley reveal that is incredibly stupid.

So what do you think is the worst way he could show Ridley at E3?

Me? Imagine a quick 1 second clip of him as a stage hazard in a trailer and then never mentioned again at E3. How disrespectful that would be!
If he were shown off in a non-playable role at the Invitational Tournament...hoo boy. I would not want to see that happen live.
 

majora_787

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The worst way would be if he just never brought Ridley up during E3 ever and Pyrosphere wasn't in the demo. IMO that basically confirms Ridley but that is the most sadistic way to go about this ever.
 

Bravetriforcer

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Expect the worst, hope for the best. I've been bracing myself for a Ridley reveal that is incredibly stupid.

So what do you think is the worst way he could show Ridley at E3?

Me? Imagine a quick 1 second clip of him as a stage hazard in a trailer and then never mentioned again at E3. How disrespectful that would be!
Smash Invitational.

Opening Ceremony.

Sakurai walks on stage.

Stares into the camera while a scare chord plays.

Stadium is dead silent after scare chord finishes.

Sakurai gives a hearty chuckle.

Says only one thing.

"Ridley."

New rendition of Vs. Ridley theme plays.

Audience goes wild.

Fans who won the costume contest by dressing as Ridley are crying.

"Is just one example of Super Smash Bros's new Stage Bosses!"

Cue Ridley as boss footage.

Riots in the street.

Ridley costume winners storm the stage.

Sakurai's head on pike.

*Trailer continues playing and reveals RIdley is also playable, and Sakurai was having a quick laugh before announcing the newcomer."
 
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DaDavid

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Ridley right now is sitting with Shulk in my mind on the "I am not at all expecting to see them consciously, but somehow in the back of my mind I have already accepted that they are in" level...
 

Neo Zero

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DaDavid said:
Ridley right now is sitting with Shulk in my mind on the "I am not at all expecting to see them consciously, but somehow in the back of my mind I have already accepted that they are in" level...
Wonder what that conversation was like
Shulk: I defeated god, what'd you do?

Ridley: *indecipherable screech*

Shulk: ...I knew I should of sat with Palutena.
 
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Kenith

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Wonder what that conversation was like
Shulk: I defeated god, what'd you do?
Ridley: *inaudible screech*
Shulk: ...I knew I should of sat with Palutena.
I believe you meant to say *indecipherable screech* or *unintelligible screech* as unless Ridley screams at a pitch only heard by dogs, his screeching is most certainly audible.

In all seriousness, though

Shulk: I defeated god, what'd you do?

Ridley: I helped destroy Samus Aran's entire race and home planet and forever solidified her hatred, have been killed and rebuilt into a cyborg, infused my body with Phazon to become all-powerful, worked with the Space Pirates to acquire the last Metroid on a dying planet, then was cloned and almost killed my long-time nemesis again, have a giant robot in my likeness, oh, and, you know, I'm a freaking space dragon that is referred as the "Cunning God of Death".

Shulk: ...I knew I should of sat with Palutena.
 
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Zynux

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Ridley is Samus' personal arch-nemesis and a recurring antagonist, but rarely the Big Bad since he's often under another villain's influence (which said villain usually being the driving force of the entire plot), while Mother Brain is the Big Bad in Metroid/Zero Mission and Super Metroid. Added links to tvtropes to best illustrate the differences between the two, as they are not the same thing or automatically interchangeable.

I understand preferences but I've always thought basing a $60 decision on one single component of a massive game was a bit extreme. That's like me finding out there's a new Pokemon generation, but Mienshao, my favorite pokemon, is unavailable in it by normal means, so I refuse to get the game.
Many people have different reasons for buying and playing the games that they do. Some make their purchasing differences based on the game's story, some make it based off the gameplay, while others get enticed by the game's presentation. Your reasoning to buy a certain game will likely be different from another's, and to assert that he's being "extreme" because he does not share the same buying methods as you do is just something I can't agree with.

While you may disagree, I think looking at it from a slightly different perspective may shed some light on why for some people a single component (or lack thereof) can turn someone off to the game.

From my experience, they were not too impressed from what the game has to offer from the beginning. The gameplay videos probably looked disappointing to them, some of the design choices weren't too great, and after what happened with Brawl they are undecided about making a purchase and aren't nearly as ready to throw money at it despite it's potential. However, there can be one design choice that could win them over, a design choice that can completely convince a buyer to gamble on a once apprehensive desire to purchase to go "you know what? I'll give this game a chance after all." After all, buying products isn't gambling. No one in their right mind who is skeptical will just throw money at the game if the promotional material doesn't do enough to entice them to make a purchase. But a highly desired feature, especially a very personal one with some history, on the other hand may change one's mind down the line.

For some people, the ability to play as Ridley in a fan-service Nintendo crossover despite possible grievances before is such a design choice to some people. After all, on face value everyone knows that a Smash Bros. game is practically guaranteed to be a "good". Even if a black sheep that Brawl crawled into the franchise, it was still for the most part be a solid game, but to others (and me) just being a "solid" game just isn't enough. Smash 4 looks "good", but there have been some deeper mechanics changes that makes me iffy about it and pretty reserved. However, despite my over-analytical grumpiness, Ridley's availability as a playable character may just win me over to buy the game anyway despite harboring the intention to just rent whenever the hype train dies down (and even that's an if at this point).

I can understand if you don't agree, but I can definitely see where these people are coming from. Everyone has a different reason for why they like these types of games. If that reason isn't there, why invest in it?

1. He made Smash possible to begin with. His idea. Be thankful.
Please, this isn't a charity. I can only agree with this mindset if the game was free, but this game will range from $50 to $60 to be played on a $300 device (that not many people have). Nobody needs to be thankful for every little thing he does even if said person has complaints; that's being terribly complacent otherwise. If someone is not satisfied with the product that it's shaping up to be or the choices made with it, then why would he not be upset about it? The only 'thanks' Sakurai needs is the fact that he received the $$$ for the price of the game.

2. More often than not, he gives us much of what we want, and usually has good reasons for not giving us the stuff he doesn't.
3. His games, particularly Brawl, have been more than 'pretty good.' I'm assuming you're citing lack of competitive balance as Sakurai's failing since you're a Project M fan, but outside of balance, Smash games are massive multiplayer fun packed with unspeakable amounts of content relative to the average game. Ridley alone will not make or break this game, and if it does, you're riding on your desire for him a bit too much.
These points are... highly debatable. But to keep it short: He caters to fans but at the same time largely does his own thing. So, not much different then any other competent developer. Sometimes he hits gold, and other times he misses very, very hard. As for Sakurai's resume, he's largely a good developer but often times some very puzzling and flawed design choices find their way into his games sometime (especially Brawl).

Though whether his game's are good or not is irrelevant anyway; if someone believes that Sakurai messed up, he should call him out on it, regardless how good or bad of a developer he is.


And no one said Sakurai was an infallible genius. But he is pretty respectable and good at what he does. This is in response to your other comment. All-in-all, keep faith that he will be in, and stop acting like Sakurai does **** just to piss you off and not care about what you want (Ridley), because he doesn't. Ridley has been explicitly stated to have been held back by technical limitations in the past, not vindictiveness.
He may not be an infallible genius, but like with many other game developers these days many people will often ignore or encourage the notion that you shouldn't complain about their choices and actions because they know what their doing and that their decisions are largely without error. Those whom are open to criticize developers like Sakurai get this type of attitude a lot. For me personally, I give credit where credit is due, and there are just as many things that I like about Smash 4 that I don't like about it. But specifically with Ridley, I think he's handle the whole situation poorly, regardless if Ridley will be playable or not.

Of course, with that said that Sakurai is clearly not out to get anyone or purposely disappoint fans (And, regardless of Ridley's playable status, he doesn't delight in trolololo everyone either, but that's a whole other issue that I've already delved into) but it's hard to not get frustrated with his decisions sometimes. Yes, he often goes above and beyond to deliver to the fans the best game that he can possibly make, and sometimes goes to extreme lengths to do so (like his wrist problems for example). But that does not all of a sudden exempt him from criticism or complaints that fans may have a problem with.

Now to be fair, I will wait until the 3DS version comes out (or any info that comes prior) before I get on Sakurai's, Nintendo's and Namco's case about some design choices or Ridley anymore (if anyone's curious, my thoughts on Ridley possibly being hyped for Boss Hazard feature before remains largely unchanged, though I'm hoping for the best anyway). It may surprise some people, but I don't always enjoy criticizing the developer for one of my favorite game franchises. I'm going to wait it out and see what happens from now on.

@ PlasmaPuffball PlasmaPuffball
You may have already gotten an answer, but for 2D Metroid I'd start with Zero Mission. For 3D Metroid, start with Prime. As for Other M, it's a game weighed down by many bizarre design choices, and because of them fails to live up as both a Metroid game and an Action game.

Also, don't worry to much about the Chronology of Metroid; it's largely irrelevant to most of the games overall except for maybe Fusion and Other M since you can easily deduce what's happening in the game's anyway once you start playing.

If he were shown off in a non-playable role at the Invitational Tournament...hoo boy. I would not want to see that happen live.
Just the thought makes me cringe. On the flip side, a complete omission of the Pyrosphere Stage in general from both the Tournament and E3 would definitely make me very suspicious (and frustrated)
 
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GM_3826

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Just to note for people that feel that RIdley isn't likely because he's not popular in japan:
Neither is Little Mac. The reaction to his inclusion was pretty much "Meh" in Japan. In the US, PEOPLE ****ING SQUEALED.
 

ChunkyBeef

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Just to note for people that feel that RIdley isn't likely because he's not popular in japan:
Neither is Little Mac. The reaction to his inclusion was pretty much "Meh" in Japan. In the US, PEOPLE ****ING SQUEALED.
The way I see it, there's only so many more games Sakurai can make that caters almost exclusively to Japan before he's going to have to start catering to America/Europe. It's going to make the guy sweat something fierce when he winds up inevitably leading Smash 6.
 

OblivionWolf

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aldelaro5

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Does anyone have an idea on what Ridley's potential reveal trailer will play out?
The chaos will rise.

The internetn will crash.

Smashborad's server will be destroyed in smoke and fire.

The toobigots will die of madness.

The ridley fan will claim victory.

The debate will be finished.

(and the subforumwill be created and have 5000 viewers).
 

Kenith

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The chaos will rise.

The internetn will crash.

Smashborad's server will be destroyed in smoke and fire.

The toobigots will die of madness.

The ridley fan will claim victory.

The debate will be finished.

(and the subforumwill be created and have 5000 viewers).
That's funny.

But I meant the actual trailer, not the reaction. :p
 

Reila

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I predict half of this board will be using a Ridley avatar after his reveal in a few days. Even the haters!
 

Smashoperatingbuddy123

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When or if Ridley is revealed I will arrange a funeral for Shokio's ego.
Do we have to point this out a lot of times.

Shokio confessed that he lied, he knew the whole time that Ridley can be resized and he was also having ??? About the shadow.


And of coarse this is truly it one more week of potd without Ridley = E3 being the momment of truth.
 
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Phaazoid

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I imagine that the game as a whole would drain an ordinary man, so it would make sense that Sakurai gets whatever jollies he can by screwing with the fanbase; that's probably his only source of joy.

He's a fun guy, but he treats his games with utmost seriousness.
There's a difference between minor trolling and screwing with a fanbase. imo, Sakurai gives off the 'dad jokes' feel. Most of his jokes are pretty corny, and you've seen all the facial expressions/poses.
And as for the Ridley thing, if he sees bosses as a good way to include characters in the franchise, than you wouldn't classify his actions as troll, or ashole. He's just being a tease, the whole "I totally didn't get you x for christmas that x shaped package is y"

and if Ridley is playable, he's still just being a tease. "We're going to home depo get in the car" winds up at dairy queen

those are probably terrible analogies but I hope you understand my point xD
 

ChunkyBeef

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and if Ridley is playable, he's still just being a tease. "We're going to home depo get in the car" winds up at dairy queen

those are probably terrible analogies but I hope you understand my point xD
Murderous space pirate dragon or no, I'd totally get in the car with him and grab a Blizzard at Dairy Queen.
 
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Staarih

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I'm afraid the Ridley avatar extravaganza may not happen as the forums shall crash and explode.

...can't wait!
 

Phaazoid

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Murderous space pirate dragon or no, I'd totally get in the car with him and grab a Blizzard at Dairy Queen.
The problem is he'd never outright tell you he's going to dairy queen. The trick basically forces you to go to every friggen staples and home depo run on the hopes of the white lie so mom doesn't find out.
 

Reila

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I imagine everyone will be using the same Ridley avatar and many unwarranted Double-Post warnings will be given.
lol

Well, if there is a picture of Ridley with the bunny ears item, I am 100% sure everyone will be using it as avatar.
 

Kenith

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Do we have to point this out a lot of times.
Shokio confessed that he lied, he knew the whole time that Ridley can be resized and he was also having ??? About the shadow.
But saying that isn't nearly as funny.

lol
Well, if there is a picture of Ridley with the bunny ears item, I am 100% sure everyone will be using it as avatar.
I can only hope for a picture of Ridley with a Super Mushroom.
 

PlasticBag

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By the time you reach the top of the Prism Tower, Ridley's head would already be at the top.
 
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lilt

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When you reach the top of the Prism Tower, Ridley's head would already be at the top.
off topic: Could you tell me who this guy in your profil pic is? I recently saw memes with his face. He must be important!

at topic: I want Ridley to be playable.
 
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Dalek_Kolt

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Requested by @Mega Bidoof
Forgive me, this is my first entirely digital drawing without tracing and didn't realize people would be watching.
mother glados.png
 
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