Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[OblivionWolf]

Part 2 shadow analyze

Part 2 of the shadow analysis: Before we start, I would like to address one more thing out of Part 1:

HE DECONFIRMED RIDLEY!

Spoiler

When the footage was shown in the Yellow Devil section, he never mentioned Ridley as another boss; He only heavily implied so.

He also deconfirms characters without beating around the bush, as with Waluigi, Ashley, Dillon, Wonder Red ...

Sakurai:
"The Wonderful 100!! We also made trophies of some of the other Wonderful Ones."

There's a precedence of deconfirming characters directly. Ridley was not directly deconfirmed, so his chances still remain high.

Anyhow, onto the second part.

HE'S HUGE!

Spoiler

Yeah, about that...

Okay, yeah, it DOES looks huge, but his shadow doesn't cover the central platform with the little pegs there.

Why is that relevant? Well, look at this picture.

His shadow is not as big as the center platform, which means he is smaller than he lets on.

Plus, his wings give off the illusion that his body is enormous.

But if we take some measurements...

We can see that his wingspan far exceeds his body.

And if we exclude the wings of the shadow picture above:

Wow, that's so much smaller.

And another thing:

the shadow does stretch out at points, so its an illusion to make Ridley much larger than he appears to be:

Not only is the shadow much larger, but the bottom is really stretched.

HE'S A BOSS CHARACTER, NOT A PLAYABLE CHARACTER!

Spoiler

Possible, but the exact quote was:
"Boss characters makes appearances in other stages, not just this one."

Why say boss characters?

I mean, these guys are/were bosses in their own games at some point, and they're characters.

Yes, even good ol' DK. So we can't rule out vague diction.

Another point against him being a boss: Did you notice Pikachu actually escapes Ridley?

Now this was a few moments before Ridley started flying again.

Spoiler

So how did Pikachu escape without any struggle? He was definitely not struggling.
According to the wiki on grabs, if your damage is at 0%, you can escape without struggle in about six seconds.

But the absolute weirdest sign is that just before the footage fade out, he may have jumped.
View attachment 12399

Compare with Brawl Ridley(s). Their movement is so smooth and well-telegraphed, much like most bosses in other games.

Compare with shadow footage Ridley. His movement is so jerky, much like how every character throughout the Smash Bros. series moves.

For all we know, that quote could mean anything.

SIZE COMPARISON

Spoiler

Alright, let's start with the most important thing in my opinion: his hand and tail.

Pictured: Ridley's hand.

Pictured: Ridley's tail. (Estimated)

Because these shadows are on a wall, the only thing that can distort it is a zoom in effect on the picture. But since the shadows mostly stay true to the size of the characters, these are at least 80% accurate to actual size, in my opinion.

And it took me a while, but I found a another character shadow on the pillar, Donkey Kong.

At 2:29, look at the pillar, slow down the video, and don't blink.

That's my estimate, but I'm probably off on the fill in, so keep that in mind.

Ridley's tail is no where near Donkey Kong's height. It is most likely only 1/2 ish of Donkey Kong's height.

and his hand is only 1/6 of Donkey Kong's height.

Onto the hand!

Picture A: Ridley's size in Other M.

Picture B: angel glory's resized Ridley holding Samus.

Judging by the hand picture, if we increase the size of the hand shadow by a few knuckles, doing so would most likely yield Ridley's size from Picture B.
As for his tail, it's most likely this size:

Left: This is the size of Ridley's tail in Other M as compared to Samus.

Right: This is the estimated size of Ridley's tail in Sm4sh as compared to Pikachu.

Next up his head:

Spoiler

his head is right there and my estimates are correct by his head size and kirbys shadow (which will be a little lower on this post)
is 2/3 or 1/2 ridleys head

And now the best part of them all: Body comparisons!

Spoiler

Okay, I gathered a few pictures of as many character's shadows as possible. (If you want to help me with this part, you can find me some full shadow pictures of other characters that aren't being covered by other obstructing/obscuring objects.)

As I mentioned earlier, Ridley's wings make him look a lot bigger, so for estimation purposes, I excluded the wings for size comparison. Also keep in mind that these aren't 100% perfect.

Heeeeeere we go

Spoiler

Charizard

Source:

at 2:01

Kirby

Source:

Go to 1:25
(Don't blink and you will see it. This took me many attempts to get this one.)

Zero Suit Samus (And by extension, Samus)

Source:
http://smashbros-miiverse.com/
you will see it under the correct categorys

Greninja

(this one was Really tough)

See Charizard for the source, and go to 1:38.

(With a keen eye, you can see Greninja's shadow)

Rosalina
(This is by far the most useful for arguments, because Rosalina and Bowser are almost the exact same height.)

(yes I know because of how she is its the best I can do)

Rosalina is almost as large as Ridley's whole body!

Source:

Go to 2:18.

(but if you guys/girls not commenced by this see if you can get me a better Rosalina shadow)

Ok Bowser is next

The Next picture is where the shadow is.
(picture by @ majora_787 )

So, with this now without a further ado. Here is the pin points.

Blue, & Green, = shadow positions.

Red, & Yellow, = Approximate measurement of the shadow over here.

Hehehe look at that "Bowsers shadow is almost as big as Ridleys."

Source:
http://smashbros-miiverse.com/
you will see it under the correct categorys

And going back to Rosalina's shadow.

Like I Said Rosalina, & Bowser Are Almost the same Height

and now the best for last

I did Mother Brain, but I did Ridley's shadow points instead.

(The green dot is on the other size because that's his foot. And since Pikachu is on the other side, I need to use his other foot for reference.)

Wait a Second Ridley shadow is smaller than mother brains

look at these

Ridley has always been bigger than Mother Brain, (Well, except for the NES, but Zero Mission retconned that) so why is Mother Brain's shadow now bigger than Ridley's?

well that's what I got you want more you can help for finding more shadows of other characters or better pictures or mention anything I missed I will post it for a part 3 (sectioned missed arguments)

so what are you thoughts

link to part 1
http://smashboards.com/threads/the-...ii-u-3ds-thread.324284/page-636#post-16727842]

Only thing im confused about is this picture.

http://oi61.tinypic.com/3145euo.jpg

The Yellow dot is really throwing me off. Majora_787 picture is much more accurate.

Also there is also alot of darkness near that part of the stage where Bowsers shadow is see here. Whats causing that?

http://download.gamezone.com/uploads/image/data/1162624/wiiupyrosphere.JPG

 

[Headcrab Jackalope]

I thought I should mention that I had my first Ridley encounter a few days ago. My friend on Steam bought me a Super Metroid download code, so I got it on my Wii U. I've really enjoyed the game so far, and the first little Ridley fight was fun and intense. I guess I can consider myself a Metroid fan now instead of just a Samus, Ridley, Kraid, and Mother Brain fan.

 

[ultimatekoopa]

You could have easily said the same thing about the Wii Fit Trainer at E3 2013.

Nevertheless, there's no reason to expect every requested fan-favourite to show up at E3 or even that all of the newcomers shown would be big-hitters. There's a good chance we could get a curveball character shown there such as the Chorus Men, regardless of how hype they would actually have been.

Wii fit trainer was considered a joke at first, unless Sakurai wants to show theanother joke character in E3 then we are probably getting at last characters that we wanted in the first place

 

[ChunkyBeef]

I thought I should mention that I had my first Ridley encounter a few days ago. My friend on Steam bought me a Super Metroid download code, so I got it on my Wii U. I've really enjoyed the game so far, and the first little Ridley fight was fun and intense. I guess I can consider myself a Metroid fan now instead of just a Samus, Ridley, Kraid, and Mother Brain fan.

Super Metroid is pretty much the epitome of the Metroid series. Nothing else made really comes close. Prime 1 makes an admirable effort and comes close, though.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Only thing im confused about is this picture.

http://oi61.tinypic.com/3145euo.jpg

The Yellow dot is really throwing me off. Majora_787 picture is much more accurate.

Also there is also alot of darkness near that part of the stage where Bowsers shadow is see here. Whats causing that?

http://download.gamezone.com/uploads/image/data/1162624/wiiupyrosphere.JPG

The red and yellow dot. Is a estimate of the same as green and blue,

I had to move the red and yellow over there, because the green and blue, would not be seen from the angle for the green and blue would not be able to be seen, i had to make a red and yellow one over there so we can see it.

 

[DMTN]

So this is something I’ve been thinking about and I would like to hear your opinion on it: do you think a dual reveal for Ridley and Palutena is possible?

(Contains spoilers regarding Kid Icarus Uprising and Metroid: Other M)

Spoiler

I can’t help but notice that Palutena and Ridley are receiving the same treatment. They are in a very similar situation. For example:
- Both their boss stages are in the game, but they are nowhere to be seen.
- They both received major teases in the Smash Direct.
- They’re never mentioned by name. Instead, Sakurai refers to them as ‘the Goddess of Light’ or ‘the trauma’.
- Ridley is the most requested character in the West, while Palutena is (one of) the most requested character(s) in Japan.

It should also be noted that Metroid and Kid Icarus are sister-series, something Sakurai took into consideration while developing Kid Icarus Uprising. Komayto’s are almost identical to Metroids and the game even has a whole chapter dedicated to Metroid, featuring Space Pirates and a boss that’s similar to Phantoon.

Maybe I’m looking too far into it. After all, this is just speculation. But still, I think a dual reveal for these two is not impossible and would provide a satisfying E3-trailer.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Super Metroid is pretty much the epitome of the Metroid series. Nothing else made really comes close. Prime 1 makes an admirable effort and comes close, though.

I like Super Metroid, but Zero Mission wins 2nd for me at least for having nonlinearity AND more comfortable physics.

Or maybe its the fact that Fusion was my first Metroid game that's talking.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

I like Super Metroid, but Zero Mission wins 2nd for me at least for having nonlinearity AND more comfortable physics.

Or maybe its the fact that Fusion was my first Metroid game that's talking.

My issue with Zero Mission is that, yeah, it's nonlinear, but you'd never know it without a guide or TAS video. There's a clear sequence of events they want you to go through.

On the other hand, you can tackle Super Metroid any number of ways, and if you know Mock Ball (a fairly easy to learn technique) you pretty much open the entire world picking up Super Missiles early.

Fusion was terrible in that sense 'cause it's EXTREMELY linear. It's like they were making the game with the intent to let you sequence break, but then forgot to add ways to sequence break. I still enjoyed it for what it was, though. It's not a bad game, it just doesn't live up to the legacy.

 

[OblivionWolf]

The red and yellow dot. Is a estimate of the same as green and blue,

I had to move the red and yellow over there, because the green and blue, would not be seen from the angle for the green and blue would not be able to be seen, i had to make a red and yellow one over there so we can see it.

Ok neat.

I wonder if Bowser is taller then Rosalina or are they exact....She might be taller. "Rosalina bigger then Bowser ruined forever NOT CANON!!!!"

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Ok neat.

I wonder if Bowser is taller then Rosalina or are they exact....She might be taller. "Rosalina bigger then Bowser ruined forever NOT CANON!!!!"

Thats right i did mention that bowser and rosalina are almost the same height.

 

[AustarusIV]

I have been very busy lately. So I have had little time for Smash Bros. related things.

In regards to the stage hazard hints about Ridley. Do you think Sakurai will finally reveal the truth during these last three weeks leading up into E3, or will we finally find out during E3 (in which the Pyrosphere will likely be a part of the playable demo).

One thing is certain though, if Ridley is shown as a stage hazard, there is a good chance that Sakurai will be addressed about it at the 1.5 hour round table on June 10th.

Personally, (I know the people who are regulars in this topic vehemently disagree), I think Sakurai keeping Stage Hazardley hidden for so long was a bad move. I also think most of the Smash Bros. fanbase, believing Sakurai to be infallible, will regard Sakurai's decision to make Ridley a stage hazard as the right one, and will make Ridley's prospects for Smash 5 extremely daunting going forward.

I already have a plan on how we can have a playable Ridley in Smash Bros., but I don't think the rest of the Ridley fanbase is ready to hear it just yet (still grasping on to hope that Sakurai is trolling us).

Is this about Project M?

If so, I don't think most Ridley fans would be against it. In fact, I think it would be the other way around. We just want a chance to play as Ridley as a fighter in the Super Smash Bros. series, and Project M would be the closest way possible if he is officially excluded from SSB4.

Keeping a non-playable Ridley away from the fanbase for nearly a year while teasing him is a terrible move for anyone to make, which is why I'm starting to think there might be more than what meets the eye. Maybe there's some kind of playable boss mode, or if you defeat Ridley on Pyrosphere you get to control him for some time.

 

[Lolo Lolo]

http://mynintendonews.com/2014/05/16/nintendo-to-hold-two-e3-developer-discussions-one-for-an-unannounced-3ds-title/
sooooo .... there will be 2 developer directs after E3 2014 ... the first one about ssb4 and the second one about an unknown 3DS game ....
I think that game is a Metroid game and if this is true then Ridley's chances are bigger (because the E3 will become the best moment to show him to hype that new game)

 

[Snagrio]

So this is something I’ve been thinking about and I would like to hear your opinion on it: do you think a dual reveal for Ridley and Palutena is possible?

(Contains spoilers regarding Kid Icarus Uprising and Metroid: Other M)

Spoiler

I can’t help but notice that Palutena and Ridley are receiving the same treatment. They are in a very similar situation. For example:
- Both their boss stages are in the game, but they are nowhere to be seen.
- They both received major teases in the Smash Direct.
- They’re never mentioned by name. Instead, Sakurai refers to them as ‘the Goddess of Light’ or ‘the trauma’.
- Ridley is the most requested character in the West, while Palutena is (one of) the most requested character(s) in Japan.

It should also be noted that Metroid and Kid Icarus are sister-series, something Sakurai took into consideration while developing Kid Icarus Uprising. Komayto’s are almost identical to Metroids and the game even has a whole chapter dedicated to Metroid, featuring Space Pirates and a boss that’s similar to Phantoon.

Maybe I’m looking too far into it. After all, this is just speculation. But still, I think a dual reveal for these two is not impossible and would provide a satisfying E3-trailer.

I also have another theory to stack on top of yours. Sakurai has made a point that he's listening to requests outside Japan by putting in Little Mac, but what if he was just the appetizer? Ridley is obviously huge (pun intended) in the West, and definitely bigger (puns, puns everywhere) then Little Mac in both size and popularity. Ultimately it would make progressive sense for Ridley to appear, not to mention it'd be at the biggest (there it is again) gaming event of the year, which happens to be at a Western territory so it all ties in.

Also, like Palutena, Ridley also shares Little Mac's months of hinting and teasing in plain sight (the boxing stage/Ridley's shadow/take your pick for Palutena).

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Keeping a non-playable Ridley away from the fanbase for nearly a year while teasing him is a terrible move for anyone to make, which is why I'm starting to think there might be more than what meets the eye. Maybe there's some kind of playable boss mode, or if you defeat Ridley on Pyrosphere you get to control him for some time.

I'm not so hot on the idea of Ridley being a playable boss, it just begs the question why he wasn't made a regular playable character to begin with.

 

[True Blue Warrior]

I'm not so hot on the idea of Ridley being a playable boss, it just begs the question why he wasn't made a regular playable character to begin with.

Agreed.

PS. Hey, you're back! I thought you were going to take a break from this board.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Agreed.

PS. Hey, you're back! I thought you were going to take a break from this board.

Eh, when there are news I take a peak in here. Yesterday (or two days ago?) there was the announcement of the 90 minute Smash conference at E3, and previously there were the Ruby & Sapphire remakes. Stuck around for two days now just to make sure I didn't leave any discussions midway. Not really planning on sticking around daily like I used to though, not until things become really interesting close to launch at least.

 

[OblivionWolf]

I also have another theory to stack on top of yours. Sakurai has made a point that he's listening to requests outside Japan by putting in Little Mac, but what if he was just the appetizer? Ridley is obviously huge (pun intended) in the West, and definitely bigger (puns, puns everywhere) then Little Mac in both size and popularity. Ultimately it would make progressive sense for Ridley to appear, not to mention it'd be at the biggest (there it is again) gaming event of the year, which happens to be at a Western territory so it all ties in.

Also, like Palutena, Ridley also shares Little Mac's months of hinting and teasing in plain sight (the boxing stage/Ridley's shadow/take your pick for Palutena).

Even though Little Mac is popular he isn't Ridley popular. There is a reason they didn't save him for E3 2014. There giving us the lesser characters first. After E3 2013 we got Rosalina, Little Mac, and Greninja to keep our attention. Great characters don't get me wrong but there saving the best for last. Ridley, Mewtwo, hopefully King K. Rool, and Pac-Man. I expect to see Palutena there too.

 

[False Sense]

Eh, when there are news I take a peak in here. Yesterday (or two days ago?) there was the announcement of the 90 minute Smash conference at E3, and previously there were the Ruby & Sapphire remakes. Stuck around for two days now just to make sure I didn't leave any discussions midway. Not really planning on sticking around daily like I used to though, not until things become really interesting close to launch at least.

Do you suppose you'd frequent the boards again in the event that Ridley is revealed to be playable?

 

[majora_787]

Super Metroid is pretty much the epitome of the Metroid series. Nothing else made really comes close. Prime 1 makes an admirable effort and comes close, though.

I honestly feel the exact opposite. After playing the series, I think the Prime Trilogy is the farthest the series has ever gone toward being a good game. Super Metroid just felt... empty in a good way, but also empty in a really bad way to a point. Though it's as good as a 2D Metroid can be, looking at things like uhh... Fusion. Though I in general feel like the 2D Metroids just don't stack up to the Prime trilogy in any way other than "being 2D side-scrollers". Because obviously, you know.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Do you suppose you'd frequent the boards again in the event that Ridley is revealed to be playable?

Most certainly, the Ridley board would likely be one of the first places I'd check daily in that event. Ridley being playable in Smash has been a dream of mine for a decade at this point, it's my only chance of being able to play as my favorite video game character of all-time. Because of this he holds almost the entirety of my excitement for this game in his grasp. Since I believe Ridley to be deconfirmed my excitement for the game has fallen a ton, and unlike with Brawl there aren't any other characters I'm looking forward to play very much, no new main material for me to say. If he's miraculously playable somehow my hype levels will sky-rocket to a level that'd make my Brawl hype seem tame, but that seems like a pipe dream to me at this point.

 

[Sonicguy726]

I honestly feel the exact opposite. After playing the series, I think the Prime Trilogy is the farthest the series has ever gone toward being a good game. Super Metroid just felt... empty in a good way, but also empty in a really bad way to a point. Though it's as good as a 2D Metroid can be, looking at things like uhh... Fusion. Though I in general feel like the 2D Metroids just don't stack up to the Prime trilogy in any way other than "being 2D side-scrollers". Because obviously, you know.

I think it just depends on preference, personally I don't like first person games so in my opinion I like super metroid and fusion a lot more

 

[ChronoBound]

Ridley being playable in Smash has been a dream of mine for a decade at this point,

It has been a dream of mine for over 15 years.

Yeah, as with you, Ridley being nearly confirmed as a stage hazard took away a lot of interest from Smash 4 for me.

 

[ChunkyBeef]

I honestly feel the exact opposite. After playing the series, I think the Prime Trilogy is the farthest the series has ever gone toward being a good game. Super Metroid just felt... empty in a good way, but also empty in a really bad way to a point. Though it's as good as a 2D Metroid can be, looking at things like uhh... Fusion. Though I in general feel like the 2D Metroids just don't stack up to the Prime trilogy in any way other than "being 2D side-scrollers". Because obviously, you know.

Fair 'nuff. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. :3

I just feel like narrative does bad things for Metroid. The more narrative in a Metroid game, the worse it tends to be. Look at Fusion. Look at Prime 2/3. Look, but don't stare too long, at Other M. I know my opinion is extremely unpopular there, since I know there's a ton of people who love Metroid Prime as a series to death, but there's a magic to a game that says 'Okay, you're alone on this planet. All you've got is your wits, your power armor and your cannon. Everything is either out to kill you or hinder your progress. Explore. Find upgrades. Destroy your target.' and then lets you approach that task however you choose, and the more you know of the game, the better you inherently do.

On the other hand, there's so much narrative in a lot of the other Metroid games it just kinda drags the games down, in my opinion. Like, all these characters and they suddenly influence Samus in such prolific ways when they aren't even really hinted at in any of the other games or even in the actual narrative or source material for the games. People love the other bounty hunters in the Prime series, and I'm just so 'Meh.' about them 'cause they all feel shoehorned in to give Samus rivals or buddies to discuss destroying Metroids with at the water cooler. Instead of just doing what the Metroid series does best - "You're by yourself, go explore and do whatever the hell you want to do and however the hell you want to do it." - the games instead say:

"This is what you have to do, this is where you have to go. Oh, by the way, here's some characters you didn't know existed and there's no reason to like these characters because they don't endear themselves to you whatsoever, but they're here, so you've gotta like 'em! Oh no, the character died, you should care.. but you don't, 'cause the character means barely anything to you, or the story, or the overall narrative outside being a boss battle, or a victim of the boss battle! Look, it's Ridley, you remember him, right?! It's not a Metroid game without Ridley! We didn't forget about the real Metroid fans 'cause we have Ridley!"

Just kinda encompasses everything I felt was wrong about the games. The only reason I give Prime 1 props because the game LEAVES YOU ALONE most of the time and you FEEL alone and in charge of your actions, like a Metroid game should be. If the game was genuinely nonlinear and had sequence breaks that didn't involve abusing glitches, I'd have been cool with putting it up there with Super Metroid.

Just my opinion, anyway. Like Sonicguy and Majora have proven, the fanbase is clearly split down the middle somewhere.. but the funny thing is, we still have something in common, regardless of what games we prefer: we all love Metroid as a series.

 

[majora_787]

Me not liking Fusion has to do with how bad of a game it is, not with my preference for it being 3D. If it was exactly the same with the only change being it's 3D and first person, I still wouldn't like it.

But anyway, more importantly. I thought the "Maybe Pyrosphere is actually the whole Pyrosphere and not just the geothermal power plant" thing was kind of a stretch. But then I remembered, we actually do have the Reset Bomb Forest stage, which looked like one location at first but was then shown to change pretty drastically.

EDIT: Honestly, I feel the same way about narrative in Metroid. I just don't care about it. I want my "what to do" and I want to go there and do it via cool Metroid stuff or something. I like some of its universe expansion, but that's just me being weird more than anything.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I honestly feel the exact opposite. After playing the series, I think the Prime Trilogy is the farthest the series has ever gone toward being a good game. Super Metroid just felt... empty in a good way, but also empty in a really bad way to a point. Though it's as good as a 2D Metroid can be, looking at things like uhh... Fusion. Though I in general feel like the 2D Metroids just don't stack up to the Prime trilogy in any way other than "being 2D side-scrollers". Because obviously, you know.

Yeah, they're vastly different kind of games, so obviously we're all going to prefer different things, there's no cookie-cutter way to say which style of Metroid is best. I prefer them as side-scrollers though, they have had a more consistent quality imo, and they just play the most comfortably to me. Only really liked Prime 1 and 2, the 3rd one was way too gimmicky for me and Hunters is flat out the worst game in the franchise imo.

 

[majora_787]

Yeah, they're vastly different kind of games, so obviously we're all going to prefer different things, there's no cookie-cutter way to say which style of Metroid is best. I prefer them as side-scrollers though, they have had a more consistent quality imo, and they just play the most comfortably to me. Only really liked Prime 1 and 2, the 3rd one was way too gimmicky for me and Hunters is flat out the worst game in the franchise imo.

The only reason I don't call Hunters the worst game in the franchise is because of the multiplayer. It just... I don't know where to begin on how many things they could have just done better. I mean I ENJOYED it, but the single player was just really... :\

 

[SchAlternate]

First, let's just re-clarify that Ridley is only truly discernibly intelligent and insightful as a character for folks who went out of their way to read the manga. In almost every single digital and game representation of the character, he's depicted as pretty much just a re-occurring, yet fearsome-looking monster. I see the point you're trying to make by applying absurdity to every villain already on the roster, but...

Just how much do you expect from the average modern day Nintendo gamer?

I'm not saying Smash is new to promoting obscurity, but each of the characters are relate-able within their franchise as a gaming character. You don't have to read a Mario manga to get his comedic family-friendly vibes. You don't need to Google the Zelda wiki to truly understand how sinister and divisive Ganondorf is. You just play the games. Game & Watch and Rob for example, don't really have personalities, they are just in because they were/are "retro". I guess that's an argument for Ridley though, but that draws me all the way back to the other less-traveled part of my original point...that there just wasn't really much implication in that direct that Ridley would be playable where so many people are thinking there was. It's not his relate-ability. Obviously most villains aren't relate-able, unless you're a crazy, but there's just nothing insightful about Ridley that can be easily discerned from the games like the other characters.

Take a look at these images from Zero Mission

Don't these make Ridley look like some evil mastermind plotting it's next move? One doesn't need to talk for people to understand what their personality is, often gestures are all you need.

 

[AustarusIV]

Just my opinion, anyway. Like Sonicguy and Majora have proven, the fanbase is clearly split down the middle somewhere.. but the funny thing is, we still have something in common, regardless of what games we prefer: we all love Metroid as a series.

Indeed. I hope it never dies. But unfortunately, it seems to be going downward into obscurity thanks to the failure of Other M and Sakurai's continuing indifference towards the franchise.

 

[DMTN]

I also have another theory to stack on top of yours. Sakurai has made a point that he's listening to requests outside Japan by putting in Little Mac, but what if he was just the appetizer? Ridley is obviously huge (pun intended) in the West, and definitely bigger (puns, puns everywhere) then Little Mac in both size and popularity. Ultimately it would make progressive sense for Ridley to appear, not to mention it'd be at the biggest (there it is again) gaming event of the year, which happens to be at a Western territory so it all ties in.

Also, like Palutena, Ridley also shares Little Mac's months of hinting and teasing in plain sight (the boxing stage/Ridley's shadow/take your pick for Palutena).

I agree. E3 just seems like a good time to reveal the big characters (I can make puns too).

By the way, has there ever been an instance where Sakurai teased a character, only to disconfirm him/her? I don't think that has ever happened.

 

[ChronoBound]

It's Project M, isn't it?

In the event that Ridley is disconfirmed for Smash 4, I do think he'll be one of the most likely additions to Project M, especially considering how the PMBR has acknowledged Ridley and his popularity.

Yeah, adding Ridley to Project M as a playable character will basically be the only way to make Ridley playable into Smash 5 going forward, since it will dispel the notion that a competent playable version of Ridley is "impossible" or "Sakurai knows best".

As for the chances of Ridley ending up playable in Project M, honestly, I see it as 50/50. Yes, the team does know how popular Ridley is, but they also have said implementing Ridley would be challenging.

There is also the fact that they probably have already decided the five newcomer slots already, though its possible, they may end up deciding to swap one of their slots with Ridley if/when we do get a proper unveil for Stage Hazardley.

That is why I think its imperative for the entire Ridley fanbase to hitch itself to the Project M wagon if/when we get hit with Stage Hazardley, instead of trying to latch on to more false hope.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Fair 'nuff. Everyone's entitled to their opinion. :3

I just feel like narrative does bad things for Metroid. The more narrative in a Metroid game, the worse it tends to be. Look at Fusion. Look at Prime 2/3. Look, but don't stare too long, at Other M. I know my opinion is extremely unpopular there, since I know there's a ton of people who love Metroid Prime as a series to death, but there's a magic to a game that says 'Okay, you're alone on this planet. All you've got is your wits, your power armor and your cannon. Everything is either out to kill you or hinder your progress. Explore. Find upgrades. Destroy your target.' and then lets you approach that task however you choose, and the more you know of the game, the better you inherently do.

On the other hand, there's so much narrative in a lot of the other Metroid games it just kinda drags the games down, in my opinion. Like, all these characters and they suddenly influence Samus in such prolific ways when they aren't even really hinted at in any of the other games or even in the actual narrative or source material for the games. People love the other bounty hunters in the Prime series, and I'm just so 'Meh.' about them 'cause they all feel shoehorned in to give Samus rivals or buddies to discuss destroying Metroids with at the water cooler. Instead of just doing what the Metroid series does best - "You're by yourself, go explore and do whatever the hell you want to do and however the hell you want to do it." - the games instead say:

"This is what you have to do, this is where you have to go. Oh, by the way, here's some characters you didn't know existed and there's no reason to like these characters because they don't endear themselves to you whatsoever, but they're here, so you've gotta like 'em! Oh no, the character died, you should care.. but you don't, 'cause the character means barely anything to you, or the story, or the overall narrative outside being a boss battle, or a victim of the boss battle! Look, it's Ridley, you remember him, right?! It's not a Metroid game without Ridley! We didn't forget about the real Metroid fans 'cause we have Ridley!"

Just kinda encompasses everything I felt was wrong about the games. The only reason I give Prime 1 props because the game LEAVES YOU ALONE most of the time and you FEEL alone and in charge of your actions, like a Metroid game should be. If the game was genuinely nonlinear and had sequence breaks that didn't involve abusing glitches, I'd have been cool with putting it up there with Super Metroid.

Just my opinion, anyway. Like Sonicguy and Majora have proven, the fanbase is clearly split down the middle somewhere.. but the funny thing is, we still have something in common, regardless of what games we prefer: we all love Metroid as a series.

Definitely agree with this, especially on the part with the other Hunters in both Prime 3 and Hunters. People keep going on about how epic Rundas was, but he was a rather flat character who died very early on, leaving no impact on me. Metroid simply isn't good at telling stories imo, only through optional measures like Prime 1 and Prime 2 presented (albeit the latter did present a bit of the story via the Luminoths themselves, though it wasn't much.)

The only reason I don't call Hunters the worst game in the franchise is because of the multiplayer. It just... I don't know where to begin on how many things they could have just done better. I mean I ENJOYED it, but the single player was just really... :\

Yeah, if I wanted a good multiplayer game I wouldn't turn to Metroid at any point. Metroid is a single-player experience to me, and on that level Hunters failed miserably.

 

[Lolo Lolo]

Take a look at these images from Zero Mission

Don't these make Ridley look like some evil mastermind plotting it's next move? One doesn't need to talk for people to understand what their personality is, often gestures are all you need.

maybe this could help better

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I agree. E3 just seems like a good time to reveal the big characters (I can make puns too).

By the way, has there ever been an instance where Sakurai teased a character, only to disconfirm him/her? I don't think that has ever happened.

Only time that's happened was with Phosphora. And that lasted like half a second.

 

[majora_787]

I remember when I was a space dragon in a purple space tunnel with red space lights space plotting my next space pl- Okay. That joke's probably run out, hasn't it. No more relating to Ridley.

 

[Snagrio]

I agree. E3 just seems like a good time to reveal the big characters (I can make puns too).

By the way, has there ever been an instance where Sakurai teased a character, only to disconfirm him/her? I don't think that has ever happened.

Not really anyone one I can think of (at least for Smash 4), and certainly nobody that has gotten as much attention that Ridley has (or Palutena for that matter). Every character deconfirmation so far has been completely out of the blue with no hinting beforehand to speak of, which makes Ridley's case all the more glaring.

 

[AustarusIV]

Yeah, adding Ridley to Project M as a playable character will basically be the only way to make Ridley playable into Smash 5 going forward, since it will dispel the notion that a competent playable version of Ridley is "impossible" or "Sakurai knows best".

As for the chances of Ridley ending up playable in Project M, honestly, I see it as 50/50. Yes, the team does know how popular Ridley is, but they also have said implementing Ridley would be challenging.

There is also the fact that they probably have already decided the five newcomer slots already, though its possible, they may end up deciding to swap one of their slots with Ridley if/when we do get a proper unveil for Stage Hazardley.

That is why I think its imperative for the entire Ridley fanbase to hitch itself to the Project M wagon if/when we get hit with Stage Hazardley, instead of trying to latch on to more false hope.

Didn't they close the poll back in March? Last I checked, Ridley did really well there, as he was second place to Isaac. He would have had a lot more votes if fans were more pessimistic about his chances then.

How can Ridley be "too challenging"? His body plan is similar to Charizard's. The only problem I could see are his wings, but I think they can be resized.

 

[majora_787]

The issue is, people use "empty posture" as an excuse when we have characters like Wolf and Greninja who exhibit very bizarre posture despite actually being humanoid design-wise. Then people use "size" as an excuse even though we have large characters in the game already. People use "wings" as an excuse even though we have Pit and Charizard and Meta Knight, and wings fold so wings existing is not even a legitimate problem. And we have Charizard and had Mewtwo with their tails, not to mention the fact that I've gone into how Other M Ridley's rope-like tail could be much more compacted than other characters.

So I have no idea why people think Ridley would be challenging. His newest design has thicker limbs so he's hardly lanky anymore. His wings can fold up. His tail could probably coil up. Weird posture is not an issue in any particular way. It's a new combination but all things considered, it's nothing new. Nothing new at all, really.

I know you meant in terms of Project M, but people seem to have this bizarre idea that Ridley being playable would necessitate all of these special considerations when he really doesn't.

 

[ChronoBound]

Yeah, if I wanted a good multiplayer game I wouldn't turn to Metroid at any point. Metroid is a single-player experience to me, and on that level Hunters failed miserably.

Here is how I rank the Metroid games:

Best Game of All Time Tier:
Super Metroid
Metroid Prime

Masterpiece Tier:
Metroid Zero Mission
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes

Good Tier (though have some flaws as far as Metroid games go):
Metroid Fusion
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption

Dated (though very good for their time):
Metroid
Metroid II: Return of Samus

Decent (but bad as actual Metroid games):
Metroid Other M
Metroid Prime Hunters

I have a pretty decent reasoning for these rankings. Arguably, you could throw Other M and Hunters above the first two Metroid games. The games in each tier are inter-changeable in terms of their position though.

Not really anyone one I can think of (at least for Smash 4), and certainly nobody that has gotten as much attention that Ridley has (or Palutena for that matter).

I would say Palutena is a bit below K. Rool. However, Ridley is definitely in a tier all his own. There really is very few characters now at this point that compare to the fanbases that existed during the pre-Brawl days (pretty much only Ridley, K. Rool, and Palutena compare).

Didn't they close the poll back in March? Last I checked, Ridley did really well there, as he was second place to Isaac. He would have had a lot more votes if fans were more pessimistic about his chances then.

Yeah, that is what made Ridley's performance so impressive.

 

[majora_787]

Here is how I rank the Metroid games:

Best Game of All Time Tier:
Super Metroid
Metroid Prime

Masterpiece Tier:
Metroid Zero Mission
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes

Good Tier (though have some flaws as far as Metroid games go):
Metroid Fusion
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption

Dated (though very good for their time):
Metroid
Metroid II: Return of Samus

Decent (but bad as actual Metroid games):
Metroid Other M
Metroid Prime Hunters

Looking at your rankings, I can't speak for Zero Mission, Metroid, or Metroid 2, but if I made any changes I'd shelf Fusion with Other M and Hunters, and maybe swap "Dated" with "Decent" but other than that yeah. Something like...

- Metroid Prime
- Super Metroid
- Metroid Prime 3
- Metroid Prime 2
==================== "Metroid seal of quality"
- Other M
- Hunters
- Fusion

? - Zero Mission, Metroid, Metroid 2 simply because I haven't actually played them. Though I'd assume Zero Mission is above the "line", while the extra-dated classics most likely have fallen below it over time. And I wouldn't be surprised if it was above Prime 2 at all.

EDIT: Also hopefully this clears that up for people since people in other places can't get their heads around it. I may think Other M is underrated and 'not that bad' but I wouldn't call it a good game or a good Metroid game. It's like Glover. I had fun playing it, but no. Nope.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Here is how I rank the Metroid games:

Best Game of All Time Tier:
Super Metroid
Metroid Prime

Masterpiece Tier:
Metroid Zero Mission
Metroid Prime 2: Echoes

Good Tier (though have some flaws as far as Metroid games go):
Metroid Fusion
Metroid Prime 3: Corruption

Dated (though very good for their time):
Metroid
Metroid II: Return of Samus

Decent (but bad as actual Metroid games):
Metroid Other M
Metroid Prime Hunters

Switch around Metroid II and Prime 3 and that's exactly my list.