Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Kenith]

Well, see, that's where we run into a problem. As a developer, yes, it's easy to just make Ridley a boss (see Subspace Emissary). As a businessman, however, you WANT the game to sell, especially the Wii U version. The Wii U version of Smash 4 is a risky investment because this is a game that Nintendo wants to move consoles. It doesn't have the benefit of being a novelty like the 3DS version.

How do you move your software AND your hardware? Listen to the fans.

We're already scraping the bottom of the barrel for playable characters, and that was before Brawl started doing it, so much so that Sakurai's already gone back on something he said back in Brawl's development days (see Villager). So now we're looking at this potentially occurring twice. Being the eccentric game developer that Sakurai is served him well the first three games. Now we're talking about a game that the fate of a whole console is partially hanging onto. Now is kind of a bad time for Sakurai to be putting in Wii Fit Trainers, Villagers and Chorus Men, but now's a REALLY good time for Ridleys, King K. Rools, Palutenas and Chroms. Y'know, characters people were actually asking for. Little Mac and Greninja were good first steps, but it's looking bleak so far.

That's how you sell a crossover fighter that's essentially a love letter to fans. Cater to the fans. Never minding that should be your goal from the get go, but there's only so many silly off-the-wall character concepts and clones/semi-clones you can put into your series before you have to step back and ask yourself why Melee and Brawl had hilariously disappointing rosters.

tl;dr: If you want to sell your crossover game, it's time to listen to the fans finally.

Amen, sir.

This is something I've been thinking too. The fate of the Wii U does partially hang on this game's success; it needs to sell well.

Don't try to and cater to the casuals with your choices; they don't care about anyone that isn't Mario. Cater to the fans that will always buy your consoles and games because they actually care about that stuff.

 

[majora_787]

At first, I was skeptical of Ridley being at E3. But this tournament deal at E3 basically guarantees one of three things is going to happen.

1) Ridley will be confirmed as a boss most likely by playing the demo and will PROBABLY not be happy.
2) Ridley will be confirmed indirectly as a character by playing the demo and people will probably hype gradually.
3) Ridley will be showcased as a playable character at E3, making much more of a hype explosion after the hinting Sakurai has done and increasing interest in the immediately approaching title.

2 is probably the least effective of the three, so it'd either be 1 or 3. 1 would require hyping up a very requested character from a major franchise be hyped up with ambiguity and possibility only to be rejected much later as nothing more than a stage hazard.

Anything is POSSIBLE, but there are things that are good business ideas and there are things that are bad business ideas.

 

[TeenGirlSquad]

At this point, I basically know that Ridley's gonna be in the game, but when he actually gets revealed, I'll be like

 

[Shinru202]

What a coincidence, The Space Dragon shares my favourite StarBucks snack

 

[Kenith]

You know, I normally would think that Ridley was unlikely to be playable after seeing that footage, and that you guys were/are trying to hard to find hints to the contrary, but some of your points are actually pretty sound.

Like the fact there are five bosses in the Pyrosphere and Sakurai didn't specify a single one.

 

[SchAlternate]

Yeahhh.... We'll see if he wants to use Ridley's clone. Or Meta Ridley. It comes down to whether or not Sakurai finds it acceptable to tone down Ridley a dozen notches in order to turn him into a fair, playable character rather than a boss which would require almost no toning down.

We will not see. He IS using Other M Ridley. You can see the tip of his tail in one frame, and the shadow presents spikes on his arms and legs, features that Roidley boasts.

Assuming he is a boss, though, this could mean that SM/ZM Rids could be playable.

 

[Kenith]

Why is everyone getting all this information from the shadow? I could hardly tell any details of it.

 

[SchAlternate]

Why is everyone getting all this information from the shadow? I could hardly tell any details of it.

Over analization, my friend.

Check for yourself.

 

[majora_787]

Why is everyone getting all this information from the shadow? I could hardly tell any details of it.

Inaccurate comparisons of Ridley's shadow, guesses at what parts of the shadow are what parts of Ridley, comparison of the shadow to Pikachu's shadow, other characters' shadows, and features on the stage... I assume that's what you mean by information from the shadow. Guessing RIdley's size is like. Maybe 30-40% reliable I'd guess? So not the most accurate data we can extrapolate from his shadow. But it's anything.

Things like his speed and behavior are easier to extrapolate from the shadow's movements. Things such as grabbing and releasing Pikachu, or moving at a relatively slow pace.

 

[AustarusIV]

I'll never stop supporting Ridley, but there comes a time where my patience is put at its limit. I would go back to playing Project M knowing that the people working on that mod are well aware of Ridley's popularity and would try to include him (along with some other extremely popular newcomers who will inevitably be disconfirmed) if he's excluded from this game's roster. But I'm still planning on getting SSB4 for the 3DS, because I've come to like this forum already for the people that I've met, and would like to play with them online when given the chance.

Looking at the size of Ridley's shadow, I'm amazed that he's only slightly larger than Bowser, which makes this his smallest in-game size since his cameo in Melee's intro. Sakurai is definitely an A-list troll in my book for doing this.

 

[majora_787]

I'll never stop supporting Ridley, but there comes a time where my patience is put at its limit. I would go back to playing Project M knowing that the people working on that mod are well aware of Ridley's popularity and would try to include him (along with some other extremely popular newcomers who will inevitably be disconfirmed) if he's excluded from this game's roster. But I'm still planning on getting SSB4 for the 3DS, because I've come to like this forum already for the people that I've met, and would like to play with them online when given the chance.

Looking at the size of Ridley's shadow, I'm amazed that he's only slightly larger than Bowser, which makes this his smallest in-game size since his cameo in Melee's intro. Sakurai is definitely an A-list troll in my book for doing this.

He makes it seem like he is trying so hard to troll. I feel like what's happening is this: Sakurai deliberately hinted at the very ambiguous possibility of Ridley MAYBE being a stage hazard way back when he introduced the Pyrosphere, and showed the lava in a way that didn't incriminate the hazard of the stage. Since it was easy to the extreme to assume the hazard hadn't been shown, when the direct came, he could abose camera angles and zooms along with removal of sound to show Ridley in a section conveniently not called "Stage Bosses" but "Yellow Devil", use some slightly interesting word choice, lead people to believe he is not playable in pyrosphere. Meanwhile, eagle-eyed people would be able to notice the missing lava from the final destination version of the stage, essentially pointing out a fake-out in which Sakurai made us believe the hazard wasn't a hazard and a requested character WAS a hazard in order to make a hype explosion at E3 as the game approached its release.

Of course that's assuming he's playable, but that just feels like the most LOGICAL (even if not most likely) outcome of these events given the evidence and the situation. Feels like a certain game I know; It's not a lie if you're lied to about it from the beginning and nobody questions it until it actually matters way later.

 

[AndreaAC]

I think Ridley is going to sleep peacefully today.....no Pyrosphere pic.

I love to put a blanket on Ridley when he's asleep....

 

[BaganSmashBros]

We will not see. He IS using Other M Ridley. You can see the tip of his tail in one frame, and the shadow presents spikes on his arms and legs, features that Roidley boasts.

Assuming he is a boss, though, this could mean that SM/ZM Rids could be playable.

OR just a boss and nothing more (this option is worst, but possible). I mean it just too perfect to have boss Roidley and playable Ridley. I believe its either playable Roidley/Ridley mix (if he is indeed not bulky) or boss Roidley. I don`t really care which design, just if its not his NES design (USA artwork version or not, it still looked ugly).

View attachment 13544

I think Ridley is going to sleep peacefully today.....no Pyrosphere pic.

I love to put a blanket on Ridley when he's asleep....

Kinda looks like he is staring at me...that bubble makes it less creepy, but that line on his upper eyelid makes it look like half-opened eye...and his upper jaw from that angle makes him look as if he is smiling...

 

[Kaios0]

I hope poor lil' Ridley makes it in this time

Why do you think he keeps invading the Smash universe in each game? It's not cause he wants to be a boss or stage cameo..

It's cause he wants to be a part of it </3

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I hope poor lil' Ridley makes it in this time

Why do you think he keeps invading the Smash universe in each game? It's not cause he wants to be a boss or stage cameo..

It's cause he wants to be a part of it </3

And if he fails, he will try again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...but he doesn`t needs to since this time he has more chances and will have even more next time!

 

[MasterOfKnees]

And if he fails, he will try again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...and again...but he doesn`t needs to since this time he has more chances and will have even more next time!

It's just in Ridley's spirit to never give up I guess. The ****** doesn't want to die to begin with either, the same way he constantly haunts Samus he's also haunting the Smashers.

Also, since we're analyzing the shadow, I just want to point out something I haven't seen being pointed out yet:

http://gfycat.com/ComfortableIncompatibleAzurewingedmagpie#?speed=2.2958874039497803e-41

Ridley comes flying from over the pillar, aka he's outside of the stage's boundaries, likely because he just came out from the hole. This gif also really shows what I meant the other day with his body completely freezing, even the tail becomes stiff.

 

[OblivionWolf]

Yeah. That's what I want.

Hm....

That looks really small...

Why is the shadow that small when the tip of his tail is actually huge?

I said this before but....

OMG ZELDA'S HAND IS GIANT!!!!

http://smashbros-miiverse.com/images/daily/zelda-screen-32.jpg

It's just in Ridley's spirit to never give up I guess. The ****er doesn't want to die to begin with either, the same way he constantly haunts Samus he's also haunting the Smashers.

Also, since we're analyzing the shadow, I just want to point out something I haven't seen being pointed out yet:

http://gfycat.com/ComfortableIncompatibleAzurewingedmagpie#?speed=2.2958874039497803e-41

Ridley comes flying from over the pillar, aka he's outside of the stage's boundaries, likely because he just came out from the hole. This gif also really shows what I meant the other day with his body completely freezing, even the tail becomes stiff.

You mean like Charizard's stiff tail when he glides? Every character who glides body goes stiff.

Look here. This is nothing new. Around 1:05

http://youtu.be/oyGS6BVV3Ro

 

[Bravetriforcer]

I said this before but....

OMG ZELDA'S HAND IS GIANT!!!!

http://smashbros-miiverse.com/images/daily/zelda-screen-32.jpg



You mean like Charizard's stiff tail when he glides? Every character who glides body goes stiff.

Look here. This is nothing new. Around 1:05

http://youtu.be/oyGS6BVV3Ro

If her hand can be that big and still be in Smash, I can totally see Ridley!

 

[False Sense]

It may be interesting to note that today we got a reveal of a hazard on a stage that seemingly didn't have one.

Perhaps we'll learn something about the Pyrosphere soon.

 

[samsparta21]

The real question is, would Sakurai put 2 Ridleys in one game. The answer is probably no, but we'll see. He did put 2 Ridleys as bosses in Brawl. I would be pleasantly surprised if he is playable, but I'm not holding my breath.

 

[Bravetriforcer]

The real question is, would Sakurai put 2 Ridleys in one game. The answer is probably no, but we'll see. He did put 2 Ridleys as bosses in Brawl, after all. I would be pleasantly surprised if he is playable, but I'm not holding my breath.

He's put three Links in the game so far, so two Ridleys would hardly make anyone bat an eye.

 

[samsparta21]

He's put three Links in the game so far, so two Ridleys would hardly make anyone bat an eye.

Yes but there are many different Links in the Zelda series.

 

[Bravetriforcer]

Yes but there are many different Links in the Zelda series.

And there's at least two distinct Ridleys.

 

[Anomilus]

Amen, sir.

This is something I've been thinking too. The fate of the Wii U does partially hang on this game's success; it needs to sell well.

Don't try to and cater to the casuals with your choices; they don't care about anyone that isn't Mario. Cater to the fans that will always buy your consoles and games because they actually care about that stuff.

Isn't that a contradiction in itself? Wii U needs to succeed, so cater to the people who are more likely to buy the console and games? Cater less to the casuals who are more likely to only buy on a whim and need something to attract them?

I agree that casuals only need to be catered to a certain degree, but sales is not where it stops. The whole roster has to be attractive. Adding Ridley would certainly assist in that, but so would a bunch of other characters, both added and yet to be added. Meanwhile the core fans aren't just interested in the cast. Which means as long as the game is looking good, the fans are very likely going to buy. Even when they try and convince themselves the game isn't going to satisfy them, the fact this those kind of fans try to convince themselves. Better a person struggling to buy it than a person who can just shrug off the game because something didn't catch their eye.

It's just in Ridley's spirit to never give up I guess. The ****er doesn't want to die to begin with either, the same way he constantly haunts Samus he's also haunting the Smashers.

Also, since we're analyzing the shadow, I just want to point out something I haven't seen being pointed out yet:

http://gfycat.com/ComfortableIncompatibleAzurewingedmagpie#?speed=2.2958874039497803e-41

Ridley comes flying from over the pillar, aka he's outside of the stage's boundaries, likely because he just came out from the hole. This gif also really shows what I meant the other day with his body completely freezing, even the tail becomes stiff.

Thanks to comparisons to Mother Brain's shadow in the Direct, it's pretty safe to say Ridley is flying on the playing plane, not outside of it. Mother Brain demonstrates the shadows officially skew a good 45 degrees from the main body. The size of the shadow is arguably similar to the main body, but the position is not directly under the body. This can also be observed by catching a glimpse of Samus's shadow before she's attacked by Mother Brain.

Ridley is clearly in flight and elevated from the ground. Applying what's been learned, Ridley could only be levitating directly above the plane of play.

 

[majora_787]

And there's at least two distinct Ridleys.

Three if we want to count Mecha Ridley. And four if you want to call the Nintendo Land thing something else entirely.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

It's just in Ridley's spirit to never give up I guess. The ****er doesn't want to die to begin with either, the same way he constantly haunts Samus he's also haunting the Smashers.

Also, since we're analyzing the shadow, I just want to point out something I haven't seen being pointed out yet:

http://gfycat.com/ComfortableIncompatibleAzurewingedmagpie#?speed=2.2958874039497803e-41

Ridley comes flying from over the pillar, aka he's outside of the stage's boundaries, likely because he just came out from the hole. This gif also really shows what I meant the other day with his body completely freezing, even the tail becomes stiff.

Nice try thats just another illusion

It looks like that but he could have simply ben hiding on one of the platforms and just dropping down on the stage and his shadow was on the pillar to make it look like hes flying over it besides i think it was only his right arm of the shadow was on the pillar

 

[majora_787]

There are so many problems with this footage that there is no way this isn't completely deliberate. xD It's zoomed in at a weird angle with nothing but a shadow and one of the smallest characters in the game, the platforms are in strange locations, the lighting is weird and skews shadows at 45 degree angles, all we actually SEE is the end of his tail coming way into the foreground and lodging itself in the camera...

It's almost like the person who took this footage was hiding something about Ridley or something. /tinfoilhat

 

[Cyberguy64]

You know, I normally would think that Ridley was unlikely to be playable after seeing that footage, and that you guys were/are trying to hard to find hints to the contrary, but some of your points are actually pretty sound.

Like the fact there are five bosses in the Pyrosphere and Sakurai didn't specify a single one.

Firey Jeff for stage hazard!

 

[Dark Phazon]

i always just assumed that shy guy was dead

HOW DARE YOU !!!!


xD

 

[OblivionWolf]

There are so many problems with this footage that there is no way this isn't completely deliberate. xD It's zoomed in at a weird angle with nothing but a shadow and one of the smallest characters in the game, the platforms are in strange locations, the lighting is weird and skews shadows at 45 degree angles, all we actually SEE is the end of his tail coming way into the foreground and lodging itself in the camera...

It's almost like the person who took this footage was hiding something about Ridley or something. /tinfoilhat

You forgot no volume too lol. Gotta avoid Ridley making the classic character grab sound effects.

 

[majora_787]

You forgot no volume too lol. Gotta avoid Ridley making the classic character grab sound effects.

EDIT: I misread that so badly. I need sleep.

 

[Dark Phazon]

This is a more accurate comparison of Mother Brain and Ridley:

Looks pretty big there, but have in mind most of that size is taken up by his wings.

This cant be right?
right? Really?

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Well, see, that's where we run into a problem. As a developer, yes, it's easy to just make Ridley a boss (see Subspace Emissary). As a businessman, however, you WANT the game to sell, especially the Wii U version. The Wii U version of Smash 4 is a risky investment because this is a game that Nintendo wants to move consoles. It doesn't have the benefit of being a novelty like the 3DS version.

How do you move your software AND your hardware? Listen to the fans.

We're already scraping the bottom of the barrel for playable characters, and that was after Brawl started doing it, so much so that Sakurai's already gone back on something he said back in Brawl's development days (see Villager). So now we're looking at this potentially occurring twice. Being the eccentric game developer that Sakurai is served him well the first three games. Now we're talking about a game that the fate of a whole console is partially hanging onto. Now is kind of a bad time for Sakurai to be putting in Wii Fit Trainers, Villagers and Chorus Men, but now's a REALLY good time for Ridleys, King K. Rools, Palutenas and Chroms. Y'know, characters people were actually asking for. Little Mac and Greninja were good first steps, but it's looking bleak so far.

That's how you sell a crossover fighter that's essentially a love letter to fans. Cater to the fans. Never minding that should be your goal from the get go, but there's only so many silly off-the-wall character concepts and clones/semi-clones you can put into your series before you have to step back and ask yourself why Melee and Brawl had hilariously disappointing rosters.

tl;dr: If you want to sell your crossover game, it's time to listen to the fans finally.

Well, Saks has been listening to the fans.

We've heard nothing of a new Punch-Out!! game, and Mega Man has been basically swept under the rug by Capcom.

Pretty much the only high-request characters that Sakurai will never add into Smash at this point are anime characters (Goku and Naruto) and video game characters that never appeared on a Nintendo console (Master Chief and Playstation FF protagonists)

 

[majora_787]

Well, Saks has been listening to the fans.

We've heard nothing of a new Punch-Out!! game, and Mega Man has been basically swept under the rug by Capcom.

Pretty much the only high-request characters that Sakurai will never add into Smash at this point are anime characters (Goku and Naruto) and video game characters that never appeared on a Nintendo console (Master Chief and Playstation FF protagonists)

I dunno. Gamfacks sed Guko and Mustard Chef iz wey murr likely to be in smosh bras then roodley. hez 3 big.

I had to and I'm not even sorry.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

I dunno. Gamfacks sed Guko and Mustard Chef iz wey murr likely to be in smosh bras then roodley. hez 3 big.

I had to and I'm not even sorry.

Pfft. James Bond has a better chance than those clowns. They have his Motion-Sensor Bomb from Goldeneye and everything!

 

[Bravetriforcer]

I dunno. Gamfacks sed Guko and Mustard Chef iz wey murr likely to be in smosh bras then roodley. hez 3 big.

I had to and I'm not even sorry.

Gamfacks actully not evehn breng up Sheno or Master Chef since game wuz annunced.

Aside from that one poor soul.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

This cant be right?
right? Really?

Yea its pretty close get rid of the wings part mother brains shadow will engolf ridleys intirely

 

[majora_787]

Pfft. James Bond has a better chance than those clowns. They have his Motion-Sensor Bomb from Goldeneye and everything!

Not anymore, sadly. But they definitely did, and we will never forget.

 

[aldelaro5]

I just got something. We know Sakurai is clearly deconfirming characters but if you see ridley's situation the other way around, Sakurai NEVER hyped a boss hazard (yellow devil was too obvious anyway). Look at the boxing ring first time we ever saw that. Same for the Orne or the shy guys this would be the only one that we actually would have heard before but seeing as how Sakurai, as different yet still consistent way of doing his things, I REALLY wonder why he would ONLY hype ridley when there's clearly no needs if you didn't hyped any hazard.

 

[majora_787]

I just got something. We know Sakurai is clearly deconfirming characters but if you see ridley's situation the other way around, Sakurai NEVER hyped a boss hazard (yellow devil was too obvious anyway). Look at the boxing ring first time we ever saw that. Same for the Orne or the shy guys this would be the only one that we actually would have heard before but seeing as how Sakurai, as different yet still consistent way of doing his things, I REALLY wonder why he would ONLY hype ridley when there's clearly no needs if you didn't hyped any hazard.

He's never hyped a deconfirmation OR a boss. This is true. I mean Yellow Devil was shown, but the only ambiguity in Yellow Devil's appearance in E3 2013 was whether he was a stage hazard or a boss. Turns out it was both.

Meanwhile, we never saw the dark emperor at E3 more than once or twice, but it wasn't hyped up at all. So yeah, wow.