Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

True but we still have the center heptagon to go off of. Not sure if your up for the task but could you shrink the Ridley shadow picture until the heptagon in the center is the same size as the heptagon in the Mother Brain picture and kinda fuse them together? Or put them side by side?

ask and shall receive

 

[Anomilus]

People should probably stop overly analyzing stuff. Yes, we don't know Ridley's fate yet, but chances are we will soon, whether at E3 or through a PotD. No point examining a shadow of all things when everything needed to be said has been done so already. Some people do indeed bring up compelling points, but repeating them a thousand time each day and clogging the thread with size comparisons won't get us anywhere. It's just a waste of everyone's time and efforts, time that could be spent finding more of dem sexy Ridley fanarts.

Sounds to me like you can't keep up.

 

[OblivionWolf]

I will see what I can do and the gif was so handy I was able to created a kingpin version of pikachus size to ridleys tail tip

I find it funny that Pikachu's tail is smaller then the Ridley's shadow tailbone tip but the tail looks massive cuz its pushing further into screen. So Pikachu is actually behind the tail.

ask and shall receive

AHAHAHAHA This is what I'm talking about. Look at dat dang ass little baby Ridley shadow. xD

 

[majora_787]

I am even testing this now to verify. In BRAWL, Pikachu's animations are:

Dash - 4-legged run (2sec to cross battlefield)
Full Walk - 4-legged run
Half Walk - 2-legged limping hop he does in the trailer (5sec to cross battlefield) (6 IN mELEE) (6 in 64) *Dream Land
Slow Walk - A weird 2-legged upright waddle

Melee and 64 use the same animations. Which basically means: 2 seconds to cross "battlefield" on average at a run, 5.6 to do so at a half walk. Which means Ridley is moving a little faster than a third of Pikachu's maximum movement speed. Which isn't great. Considering everyone is going to be utilizing their maximum movement potential around Ridley. And Pikachu is not the fastest character.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I find it funny that Pikachu's tail is smaller then the Ridley's shadow tailbone tip but the tail looks massive cuz its pushing further into screen. So Pikachu is actually behind the tail.




AHAHAHAHA This is what I'm talking about. Look at dat dang *** little baby Ridley shadow. xD

glad you like it but don't get your hopes up with it its not as good as you can see by the other 2 layers are smaller than the other I used the middle part of the arena and its in a angle in ridleys footage

 

[Deleted member]

People should probably stop overly analyzing stuff. Yes, we don't know Ridley's fate yet, but chances are we will soon, whether at E3 or through a PotD. No point examining a shadow of all things when everything needed to be said has been done so already. Some people do indeed bring up compelling points, but repeating them a thousand time each day and clogging the thread with size comparisons won't get us anywhere. It's just a waste of everyone's time and efforts, time that could be spent finding more of dem sexy Ridley fanarts.

You're Sakurai and don't want us to know the truth, case solved!

 

[OblivionWolf]

glad you like it but don't get your hopes up with it its not as good as you can see by the other 2 layers are smaller than the other I used the middle part of the arena and its in a angle in ridleys footage

Yeah he would be alittle bit bigger then what your picture shows but not by much. Still significantly smaller then Mother Brain. I think the best angled picture we got is this one.

http://smashbros-miiverse.com/images/daily/daily-2014-04-10-24.jpg

There shadows are kinda low to the ground so not sure how much it could help you.

 

[SchAlternate]

This could be used to watch it even slower but I think we got all the info we could possible get out of the shadow clip.

http://gfycat.com/ComfortableIncompatibleAzurewingedmagpie#?speed=2.2958874039497803e-41

I noticed that Ridley's transition between his "air walk" and his "air idle" gives the impression that Ridley teleported from one point to a couple of inches forward. Kind of odd for a "boss" isn't it?

 

[Anomilus]

I should point out that, for a very brief moment in that video showing off Mother Brain, you can see Samus's shadow glint across the edge of the stage just before she's hit by the Hyper Beam.

 

[Empyrean]

Sounds to me like you can't keep up.

I just spend I dunno how much time catching up the last 50 pages, and no one came up with something new. It isn't really an issue of keeping up. It just feels really redundant to see people repeat the same things over and over again, and finding an interesting moveset idea or a pic of Ridley (or just Angelglory's work in general) is like a breath of fresh air in the sea of repetition this thread has become over the last month. Surely I'm not the only one who feels this way. Don't get me wrong, I want Ridley in Smash Bros as much as the next guy, but I'm just going to patiently wait to find out the truth.

 

[OblivionWolf]

I noticed that Ridley's transition between his "air walk" and his "air idle" gives the impression that Ridley teleported from one point to a couple of inches forward. Kind of odd for a "boss" isn't it?

This guy said it best.

I didn't notice this thread at first, i apologize for the other thread.

Anyway.

Ridley is in due to his animations in the direct.

Player controlled entities almost always have jerky-ish movement to cope with user input. Animations aren't super fluid.

Non-player entities however have the freedom to have completely fluid animations due to the developers having complete control over when and where it animates.

Ridley's shadow had jerky movements like any other smash character does. Namely, when the shadow flies in, stops for a moment, and then continues off screen. There is a very clear distinction between the "standing" animation and the "moving" animation. An NPC boss would NEVER behave that way. You can see a better indication of this by watching his tail closely. It almost WARPS into a different position when he goes from idling to moving again. That would never pass QA for a boss animation. If anything, Boss Ridley would have a much longer decelerating animation to transition between moving and idling, like boss ridley from SSBB.

Heres the shadow for your easy viewing: http://youtu.be/7xUWnQu2Grs?t=7m19s

And heres Ridley's boss fight in SSBB: http://youtu.be/iJP8TtY3eig?t=48s

Note the very fluid animation transitions in the boss fight versus the shadow. Shadow is jerky as all hell, especially right at the end where it looks like it spazzes out left and right. Boss Ridley's animations don't skip a single frame, whereas shadow skips a ton. Also, what kind of boss just floats in the stage, sits still, and then merrily flaps away without any sort of attack? They would have had to create a special string of animations that they will never use again JUST for the 10 second clip of shadow right after they showed Yellow Devil exactly the way he functions in the game. They haven't created a special in-game animation sequence for ANYTHING. All in-game vids have been rehearsed an recorded manually.

(for tail warping action, see 7:26 in the direct vid. It's so blatant I might cry)

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Yeah he would be alittle bit bigger then what your picture shows but not by much. Still significantly smaller then Mother Brain. I think the best angled picture we got is this one.

http://smashbros-miiverse.com/images/daily/daily-2014-04-10-24.jpg

There shadows are kinda low to the ground so not sure how much it could help you.

exactly I think its all I need give or take a a few inches that's pretty close

 

[Anomilus]

I just spend I dunno how much time catching up the last 50 pages, and no one came up with something new. It isn't really an issue of keeping up. It just feels really redundant to see people repeat the same things over and over again, and finding an interesting moveset idea or a pic of Ridley (or just Angelglory's work in general) is like a breath of fresh air in the sea of repetition this thread has become over the last month. Surely I'm not the only one who feels this way. Don't get me wrong, I want Ridley in Smash Bros as much as the next guy, but I'm just going to patiently wait to find out the truth.

It's my way of saying you're getting fatigued over the whole subject. You're reading through 50 pages of this thread seems to affirm my assumption.

 

[Dark Phazon]

Gonna be a long...horrible...month....

 

[DustyPumpkin]

Gonna be a long...horrible...month....

If you go into a cryogenic freeze now I promise I'll leave a memo for someone to thaw you by E3

 

[Villast]

I can actually see how ridley could be a playable character now. It never seemed like he'd make it before.

 

[Dark Phazon]

If you go into a cryogenic freeze now I promise I'll leave a memo for someone to thaw you by E3

You promise?

 

[Empyrean]

It's my way of saying you're getting fatigued over the whole subject. You're reading through 50 pages of this thread seems to affirm my assumption.

Indeed, I am tired, but I guess I can't force anyone to stop if that's what they find fun, even if it does baffle me.

I might not check back as often as I did before, but I just want ya'll to know that I'm quite positive that he might end up being playable, but it would be a wise idea to come to terms with the idea of an unplayable Ridley. This way, heavy disappointment would be avoided and it wouldn't be in the way of enjoying a game that otherwise is shaping up to be amazing at the very least.

 

[DustyPumpkin]

You promise?

*salutes* Promise!

See you Space Cowboy.

 

[Anomilus]

Indeed, I am tired, but I guess I can't force anyone to stop if that's what they find fun, even if it does baffle me.

I might not check back as often as I did before, but I just want ya'll to know that I'm quite positive that he might end up being playable, but it would be a wise idea to come to terms with the idea of an unplayable Ridley. This way, heavy disappointment would be avoided and it wouldn't be in the way of enjoying a game that otherwise is shaping up to be amazing at the very least.

Oh after this newest inspection of the shadows, I'm actually starting to become even more hopeful...

All we've been doing is looking at Ridley's shadow and every other little dark space and object we could find to compare. Having finally found a truly clear and distinguishable shadow in Mother Brain for comparison, it's especially difficult now to see this Ridley as being too big. Well, almost. The wing span still comes across as uncomfortably wide.

But the size of Mother Brain and its own shadow, how it's that large while on the ground whereas Ridley is clearly not on the ground, the fact that it skews at such an angle showing that Ridley is very likely moving within the platforms and not navigating around them outside the plane of gameplay, and even the glint of Samus's shadow.. All of it points to a Ridley that cannot possibly be as big as the one in Brawl.

I'm still going to avoid dismissing the possibility that he's a boss hazard and nothing more. The possibility we're wrong about this will live on until proven otherwise. But I'm not gonna fear disappointment. Even as I step deeper and deeper into a hope I had attempted to kill. Twice.

 

[HylianHeroBigBoss]

You promise?

View attachment 13502

i always just assumed that shy guy was dead

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

http://gfycat.com/ComfortableIncompatibleAzurewingedmagpie#?frameNum=142

hey when the shadow appear go by one frame the hugest jerk of them all a few momments before he grabs Pikachu/when he stops moving the first time

it looks like he was doing a swoop at the very beginning of the shadow appearance but that could simply be he was hiding on top of one of the platforms

 

[OblivionWolf]

http://gfycat.com/ComfortableIncompatibleAzurewingedmagpie#?frameNum=142

hey when the shadow appear go by one frame the hugest jerk of them all a few momments before he grabs Pikachu/when he stops moving the first time

it looks like he was doing a swoop at the very beginning of the shadow appearance but that could simply be he was hiding on top of one of the platforms

Yeah the moment when he like throws his legs up into the air?

 

[Deleted member]

It's fun going on Miiverse and taking pic of all the Ridley detractors, saving everything I can find for when E3 comes

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Yeah the moment when he like throws his legs up into the air?

I think what i found exactly when ridley appears is a falling animation (his hiding place could no brainer could have ben one of the platforms) if playable

 

[Anomilus]

It's fun going on Miiverse and taking pic of all the Ridley detractors, saving everything I can find for when E3 comes

Last time I tried to do something like that, Sakurai made the effort a waste of time. >_>

 

[Freaky Mutant Man]

A bit late, but I think Ridley's speed isn't necessarily much of an indicator of his status, considering how bosses now play the role of stage hazards. He's moving rather slowly in comparison to his appearances in his series, sure, but considering bosses are going to show up in the middle of regular matches and interfere, Ridley being so slow could easily be a design choice to prevent him from being ridiculously intrusive rather than just... largely intrusive? (Stage bosses seem like they could be too distracting in general; kinda hoping there's a way to turn them off)

Point is, the design considerations for a traditional boss that fights against a single player (or perhaps multiple co-op players) until one side is defeated (with no additional or further goals afterward) are, by nature, going to be rather different from a boss that's meant to show up in the middle of a regular versus match and act as what is essentially a sturdy, violent pinata whose reward will ultimately go to only one player (as far as we know, anyway; we only know the details of how the Yellow Devil works, it might vary a bit with other bosses). With the Yellow Devil, for example, beating him isn't the goal of the match when he shows up; it's still a contest of points and/or survival between the players, and time running out or taking off your opponent's last stock will end the match regardless of whether YD's still around. Note YD's patterns and movement; he takes awhile to move from one side of the arena to the other (giving even the slowest characters plenty of time to get into position), has predictable attack patterns, and doesn't move while attacking, allowing the players to wail on him or their opponents without worrying about him suddenly going after them or anything. A lot of this behavior can be attributed to mimicking his original boss fight (though toned down and likely much less challenging due to the radical difference in gameplay between MM and SSB), but this behavior is regardless well-suited for his purpose in Smash; intrusive, but not so overwhelming as to prevent gameplay from continuing mostly normally.

With that context, I don't think Ridley's slow speed or him stopping and doing nothing for several seconds are very strong points against him being a stage boss; were he to fight very similarly to his main series appearances, constantly moving around quickly and attacking mercilessly, it would present several problems. He'd be incredibly overwhelming whenever he appeared, demanding all players' full attention lest they get blind-sided by him while trying to take out their opponents; slower characters would be at a heavy disadvantage to get the last hit while faster characters would have a heavy advantage (King DeDeDe would struggle to catch up and deliver a single blow while Sonic might be constantly smacking Ridley in the face the entire time, as an example). These might be fine for a one on one fight against Boss Ridley, but when Ridley's defeat is merely a bonus rather than the goal and the players are already concerned with taking each other down, I can't see it turning out all that well.

Thus, I can see Boss Ridley being that slow, as well as him stopping and doing seemingly nothing for several seconds. He wouldn't be the main attraction; that's always going to be the fight between the players. Like the Yellow Devil, he's there to impact the fight, not completely consume it for a minute or two.

Mind, I still think Ridley yet has a good chance to be playable after all. There's enough odd things about the clip for reasonable doubt, I feel, and him being playable is simply a more fun thought to entertain than the alternatives; not a whole lot to get excited over with them, after all.

One more thing: The odd animations are a good point in playable Ridley's favor, but it is worth noting that the only other boss we've seen in action so far is the Yellow Devil, who is deliberately limited in animation to match his appearance in Mega Man. While Brawl's boss animations were smooth, we haven't seen any other SSB4 bosses in action yet, so we don't quite have the frame of reference necessary to say this is unusual for this game's bosses. Unusual for past Smash games, yes, but that may turn out to be true of all of the bosses.

 

[OblivionWolf]

I think what i found exactly when ridley appears is a falling animation (his hiding place could no brainer could have ben one of the platforms) if playable

Yeah I thought he jumped on one of the platforms to the left.

http://smashbros-miiverse.com/images/daily/daily-2014-04-12-29.jpg

Then in this gif I think he jumps off the platform. You can see his wing flap but nothing happens but then he jumps and his wings flag again after. I think the first flap could have been him getting on the platform.

http://smashboards.com/attachments/roidley_takeoff_shorted-gif.12399/

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Yeah I thought he jumped on one of the platforms to the left.

http://smashbros-miiverse.com/images/daily/daily-2014-04-12-29.jpg

Then in this gif I think he jumps off the platform. You can see his wing flap but nothing happens but then he jumps and his wings flag again after. I think the first flap could have been him getting on the platform.

http://smashboards.com/attachments/roidley_takeoff_shorted-gif.12399/

Yea he jumping from the left side

But when the shadow appeara i think its a falling animation to the right side

 

[Deleted member]

A bit late, but I think Ridley's speed isn't necessarily much of an indicator of his status, considering how bosses now play the role of stage hazards. He's moving rather slowly in comparison to his appearances in his series, sure, but considering bosses are going to show up in the middle of regular matches and interfere, Ridley being so slow could easily be a design choice to prevent him from being ridiculously intrusive rather than just... largely intrusive? (Stage bosses seem like they could be too distracting in general; kinda hoping there's a way to turn them off)

Point is, the design considerations for a traditional boss that fights against a single player (or perhaps multiple co-op players) until one side is defeated (with no additional or further goals afterward) are, by nature, going to be rather different from a boss that's meant to show up in the middle of a regular versus match and act as what is essentially a sturdy, violent pinata whose reward will ultimately go to only one player (as far as we know, anyway; we only know the details of how the Yellow Devil works, it might vary a bit with other bosses). With the Yellow Devil, for example, beating him isn't the goal of the match when he shows up; it's still a contest of points and/or survival between the players, and time running out or taking off your opponent's last stock will end the match regardless of whether YD's still around. Note YD's patterns and movement; he takes awhile to move from one side of the arena to the other (giving even the slowest characters plenty of time to get into position), has predictable attack patterns, and doesn't move while attacking, allowing the players to wail on him or their opponents without worrying about him suddenly going after them or anything. A lot of this behavior can be attributed to mimicking his original boss fight (though toned down and likely much less challenging due to the radical difference in gameplay between MM and SSB), but this behavior is regardless well-suited for his purpose in Smash; intrusive, but not so overwhelming as to prevent gameplay from continuing mostly normally.

With that context, I don't think Ridley's slow speed or him stopping and doing nothing for several seconds are very strong points against him being a stage boss; were he to fight very similarly to his main series appearances, constantly moving around quickly and attacking mercilessly, it would present several problems. He'd be incredibly overwhelming whenever he appeared, demanding all players' full attention lest they get blind-sided by him while trying to take out their opponents; slower characters would be at a heavy disadvantage to get the last hit while faster characters would have a heavy advantage (King DeDeDe would struggle to catch up and deliver a single blow while Sonic might be constantly smacking Ridley in the face the entire time, as an example). These might be fine for a one on one fight against Boss Ridley, but when Ridley's defeat is merely a bonus rather than the goal and the players are already concerned with taking each other down, I can't see it turning out all that well.

Thus, I can see Boss Ridley being that slow, as well as him stopping and doing seemingly nothing for several seconds. He wouldn't be the main attraction; that's always going to be the fight between the players. Like the Yellow Devil, he's there to impact the fight, not completely consume it for a minute or two.

Mind, I still think Ridley yet has a good chance to be playable after all. There's enough odd things about the clip for reasonable doubt, I feel, and him being playable is simply a more fun thought to entertain than the alternatives; not a whole lot to get excited over with them, after all.

One more thing: The odd animations are a good point in playable Ridley's favor, but it is worth noting that the only other boss we've seen in action so far is the Yellow Devil, who is deliberately limited in animation to match his appearance in Mega Man. While Brawl's boss animations were smooth, we haven't seen any other SSB4 bosses in action yet, so we don't quite have the frame of reference necessary to say this is unusual for this game's bosses. Unusual for past Smash games, yes, but that may turn out to be true of all of the bosses.

Let's say he is a boss with that speed, unlike Yellow Devil, he wouldn't be able to attack in any form when switching the side of the stage, leaving him upt to a lot of damage, especially when you consider that YD's only weak spot is the eye, if he was both slow and with a big hitbox, he wouldn't survive 30 secs on the field, the bosses are meant to interrupt the fight, look at YD's pattern, shoot, then separate and move to the other side while attacking making him invincible, slowly moving without doing anything while open for attacks, Pikachu slow-walk being at the same speed of a boss that is known for his unpredictability that would be a very poor design choice

 

[OblivionWolf]

Yea he jumping from the left side

But when the shadow appeara i think its a falling animation to the right side

Oh so you think he is falling then activates some kind of hover mode?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Oh so you think he is falling then activates some kind of hover mode?

No he was in walking animation him flying could easily be walking animations

It goes all characters hit the ground moving almost less than a momment later they get back to full walk animation when they hit the ground while moving

 

[NastCF]

This is a more accurate comparison of Mother Brain and Ridley:

Looks pretty big there, but have in mind most of that size is taken up by his wings.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

This is a more accurate comparison of Mother Brain and Ridley:

Looks pretty big there, but have in mind most of that size is taken up by his wings.

Yea exclude the wings then mother brains shadow covers ridleys shadow 100%

 

[Bravetriforcer]

One thing I took notice of that I'm sure 50 other people did but whatever. I'm noticing that this Ridley has that white, bony tip like Other M's Roidley. But he lacks the buff limbs also found on Roidley, and seems to keep the janky-ass chicken legs. Seems a little weird to give the boss meant to emulate a fight found in an existing game an appearance with a mixture of features across incarnations. It's not impossible, but seems like a design decision better left for a playable character.

 

[OblivionWolf]

No he was in walking animation him flying could easily be walking animations

It goes all characters hit the ground moving almost less than a momment later they get back to full walk animation when they hit the ground while moving

Idk I don't think Ridley's walk animation would be flying but we shall see.

http://images.wikia.com/fantendo/images/b/b4/Ridley_struttin.gif

This is a more accurate comparison of Mother Brain and Ridley:

Looks pretty big there, but have in mind most of that size is taken up by his wings.

Yeah his body really is small its just those wings. I mean would it really be a huge deal for a Bowser sized character to have large wings bigger then Charizards?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

One thing I took notice of that I'm sure 50 other people did but whatever. I'm noticing that this Ridley has that white, bony tip like Other M's Roidley. But he lacks the buff limbs also found on Roidley, and seems to keep the janky-*** chicken legs. Seems a little weird to give the boss meant to emulate a fight found in an existing game an appearance with a mixture of features across incarnations. It's not impossible, but seems like a design decision better left for a playable character.

If you pause at the right momments hou will see the arm spikes from the other m plus his awful duck bill on. Another frame momment

Yea maybe im lookig a little too deep on when his shadow pops out

 

[Bravetriforcer]

This is a more accurate comparison of Mother Brain and Ridley:

Looks pretty big there, but have in mind most of that size is taken up by his wings.

Dude. Dude dude dude. What if Ridley's gimmick is that he can switch between two different "modes?" Ground mode is where his wings are reasonably sized and Ridley is slow, heavy, and has great aerial moves that can be difficult to use properly due to weight and speed. But he can "switch" to air mode somehow, maybe after charging a meter, and his wings grow and he is permanently flying even in his walk cycle. At the cost of becoming incredibly easy to knock out and maybe a little more "slippery," Ridley is constantly in his strong aerial game, with his aerial attacks gaining smash attacks along with it. It would probably be only a timed change of some kind so that he can't constantly be dominating everything.

 

[NastCF]

Another comparison:

On the left I tried to make an estimate of how big Bowser's shadow would be by comparing it to Fox's from another screenshot. Ridley is only slightly taller than Bowser here, although he's hunched over so technically he should be even bigger than that.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Another comparison:

On the left I tried to make an estimate of how big Bowser's shadow would be by comparing it to Fox's from another screenshot. Ridley is only slightly taller than Bowser here, although he's hunched over so technically he should be even bigger than that.

you know I was just about to say I think I figured out ridleys shadow angle and where ridley was really standing

you need a bowser shadow on the pyrosphere for this is a pretty accurate comparison