Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Oracle_Summon]

If he is a character meant to be the opposite of Little Mac, why would that be surprising that he has an air grab?

Also Master Hand did not behave the way Ridley did. If you compare how other bosses did grabs, they telegraphed, and then moved at a speed to grab the opponent, and then they do damage.

What you are saying is "there is nothing weird at all about a boss being slightly larger than Bowser, moving slightly faster than Pikachu half-walking, not telegraphing, picking people up like a player would, and then not doing damage because he was probably just programmed that way." Which is some ridiculous-tier self-fulfilling logic, but okay.

.........I think you meant to reply to someone else.

 

[majora_787]

.........I think you meant to reply to someone else.

The first part of it was to reply to you. I'm just too lazy to quote multiple people in one post.

 

[SchAlternate]

Let me just say guys, the argument 'AI doesn't act like that' is moot, regardless of what Ridley is actually doing in the clip.

It's AI. It acts like however they programmed it to act. That can include jumping, gliding, grabbing, or even getting broken free from grabbing. Master hand did pretty much all that. It's nothing new.

I'm not saying I'm subscribing to the Ridley is definitely a boss way of thinking just yet. Just trying to set some points right.

I think the problem is that it shouldn't act like that IF it's indeed intended to work as a boss/obstacle. Due to the way it behaves, it doesn't appear to match the usual behavior found on other bosses through the series. Hence why it's likely it isn't AI controlled at all.

 

[Oracle_Summon]

The first part of it was to reply to you. I'm just too lazy to quote multiple people in one post.

Oh, ok. I do see Ridley as one who rules in the air, but sucks on ground.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Let me just say guys, the argument 'AI doesn't act like that' is moot, regardless of what Ridley is actually doing in the clip.

It's AI. It acts like however they programmed it to act. That can include jumping, gliding, grabbing, or even getting broken free from grabbing. Master hand did pretty much all that. It's nothing new.

I'm not saying I'm subscribing to the Ridley is definitely a boss way of thinking just yet. Just trying to set some points right.

Wait, you could grab Master Hand!?

Anyhow, I've looked over some Smash Bosses, and even on the hardest difficulties, the attacks are pretty smooth and well-telegraphed. But its not only because its AI and therefore will have smoother animations, its because having AI bosses that don't have smoothly animated attacks that are telegraphed in some fashion would be really unfair.

I mean, Ridley COULD have low frames and easily transition from one attack to another without warning the players, but that would be less fun and more controller-breaking infuriating.

 

[majora_787]

Wait, you could grab Master Hand!?

Anyhow, I've looked over some Smash Bosses, and even on the hardest difficulties, the attacks are pretty smooth and well-telegraphed. But its not only because its AI and therefore will have smoother animations, its because having CP bosses that don't have smoothly animated attacks that are telegraphed in some fashion would be really unfair.

I mean, Ridley COULD have low frames and easily transition from one attack to another without warning the players, but that would be less fun and more controller-breaking infuriating.

Especially if part of what he does is simply hold people and keep them from acting, and on top of this boss there is PROBABLY another stage hazard involving lava. This just seems like a bad situation, should that be true.

 

[Oasis_S]

Especially if part of what he does is simply hold people and keep them from acting, and on top of this boss there is PROBABLY another stage hazard involving lava. This just seems like a bad situation, should that be true.

To be fair the score for what is more likely to be a stage hazard right now is:

Ridley 1 - Lava 0

 

[Fatmanonice]

I AM THOSE PEOPLE AND WHY ARE THEY NOT LIKE ME BRB STARTING A WAR OR SOMETHING.

I know you've supported Ridley for that long too (I mean you are the OP of this thread after all) but I kind of get the vibe that you're wanting everyone to clear out so that they don't set themselves up for disappointment. That's admirable but that's a decision that Ridley fans will have to make for themselves. Like you, I was there during the big Brawl fallout so I understand how hard it is to face a ton of people who you've rallied for years with what appears to be overwhelming evidence that "you've lost" despite your ongoing support. Simply put, it sucks. It sucks a lot especially when you are part of a massive fanbase and, despite it being totally out of your control, you still feel like you personally let people down. That's pretty much what I dealt with in the months following Geno's disconfirmation in Brawl. I personally felt like I had failed simply because of how many people believed it was a sure thing. Still, time will tell how this will play out.

 

[majora_787]

To be fair the score for what is more likely to be a stage hazard right now is:

Ridley 1 - Lava 0

Then why is the lava removed from the Final Destination version of the stage, if there is no likelihood of that happening? Aside from the awful and obviously untrue ideas of "It'd slow the game down" or "be distracting" while a sun crashes into the earth behind the actual Final Destination.

EDIT: And before you ask, I'm not treating this like some kind of thing that 'proves' or 'disproves' Ridley. For all we know, Ridley could just be a slow, small, docile boss that appears on a stage with lava hazards. But that's not actually what I am asking here.

 

[Oasis_S]

I don't really mind them having hope, but they seem to cling to things to to me appear factually wrong from the start.

I'M NOT YOUR NOBLE HERO, I'M THE COOL ANIME VILLAIN THAT SCOFFS AT THIS DESPERATE CRAWLING AROUND FOR CLINGABLE HOPE AND GOES LIKE "Huhuhu, pathetic."

*sits on skull throne wondering why people won't be downers with me and maybe sniffles a little*

 

[Xhampi]

I think that it's kinda funny that Ridley is pretty much like at the end of every Metroid games right now, you don't know if he's done for good or if he will come back once more out of nowhere ^^

 

[Snagrio]

While it is true that bosses can stop and stay in one place for a few seconds for the player to attack, when they get moving again it's usually not at a leisurely pace.

It's especially apparent when you compare Brawl Ridley (both incarnations) to the one in the Direct. In Brawl, Ridley would soar all over the place, striking with quick movements and only stopping briefly before the next attack.

Here, Ridley is moving at a comparatively snail-like pace, casually grabs Pikachu, and continues on his merry way as if he was picking the mouse up to go get ice cream together (hmm, AndreaAC, get on that).

If he is indeed a boss/hazard, then he'd be a pretty boring, unfaithful to source material one.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

My final word on it is, it's questionable, but I still believe he's a stage hazard/boss. I don't see there being any doubt about it, and nothing so far has convinced me otherwise.

That said, I give the rest of my fellow Ridley supporters credit for continuing to support him.

 

[Staarih]

I decided to play around with pictures a little. Many have already pointed out the stuff that I go through here but if anyone's interested...:

Spoiler

I made a comparison picture of a "possible" Pikachu's shadow and Ridley's shadow which try to be at least a little proportionate haha:

I assume Pikachu and Villager are roughly the same size, so their shadow (while in the air) would be too. A little zooming in and out gave this result, where Ridley's shadow wouldn't be massively bigger of Pikachu's (and I think part of that shadow I circled IS Pikachu as Ridley apparently grabs it). It's the wings that are really big though, but I guess that's just how Ridley is. At least they don't go all over the stage, but rather just one side of it. The shadows work differently in different stages and in this particular case the camera angle is also tricky. If the Pikachu + Ridley footage had been shot from the side like with the Villager one (and how the battles usually are seen), the shadows would look much narrower and smaller. And as we have seen, the wings don't go much over the center of the Pyrosphere, so in battle view the shadow would be pretty minimal I think, thus making the Ridley shadow even smaller than it is in the above picture.

Hmm, now that I look at that image, it looks a bit off, but it should be roughly right... I hope haha!

What I also tried to do was see how Charizard's wings affect its shadows in these games:

...and while it's not anything major, the wings CAN make a big difference. Diddy's shadow is quite small compared to Charizard's (but surely the Ridley shadow is still pretty big compared to this). On the Wily's Castle picture, the shadow of Charizard's wing goes all the way to the side of the platform, while being on the ground/stage. Interestingly, the Yellow Devil's shadow also does this, so a big character with a big shadow, like Charizard (and Ridley!) is always a possibility without needing to be a stage hazard.

But nothing of this really "confirms" anything, as all of this shadow-talk could STILL apply to a stage boss as well. I just had some free time (too much of it really haha) and decided to play around. Most of this has probably been brought up already though. I just feel like there's still the possibility of Ridley being a playable character because of all this, but I shall remain skeptical as usual and prepare for the worst while hoping for the best. Damn that Sakurai, can't tell if he's trolling or not because of all the trolling!

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I think that it's kinda funny that Ridley is pretty much like at the end of every Metroid games right now, you don't know if he's done for good or if he will come back once more out of nowhere ^^

In metroid prime 3 he was a boss near the begining meta ridley was a boss when you do the mission to activate the generators (besides omega ridley though)

 

[False Sense]

So, what about Ridley's tail apparently being the size of Pikachu?

 

[SmashChu]

My final word on it is, it's questionable, but I still believe he's a stage hazard/boss. I don't see there being any doubt about it, and nothing so far has convinced me otherwise.

That said, I give the rest of my fellow Ridley supporters credit for continuing to support him.

Basically, hope for the best, expect the worse.

 

[SchAlternate]

So, what about Ridley's tail apparently being the size of Pikachu?

I want to say it's a perspective issue, due to his tail being closer to the camera than Pikachu, but I'm not entirely sure.

 

[majora_787]

So, what about Ridley's tail apparently being the size of Pikachu?

The tail was moving significantly closer to the camera in a shot that was already zoomed in. Of course it would look large despite being in front of the plane where Pikachu and Ridley were.

 

[Hotfeet444]

It never hurt anyone to be optimistic. Until I hear the words "Ridley's a Stage Hazard" I'll continue to support Ridley. This is coming from someone who suffers from heavy Clinical depression people, you should be better at doing this than I am. Hope never hurt anyone, just don't think it's going to be entirely the way you want in case it does indeed not happen.

 

[Mega Bidoof]

Especially if part of what he does is simply hold people and keep them from acting, and on top of this boss there is PROBABLY another stage hazard involving lava. This just seems like a bad situation, should that be true.

To be fair the score for what is more likely to be a stage hazard right now is:

Ridley 1 - Lava 0

My theory: If you are playing as Ridley, Meta Ridley flies in and is the stage hazard. But if you aren't playing as Ridley, Meta Ridley flies in, but his armor is then melted off by the lava before the boss fight starts, since the armor was only there to differentiate him from playable Ridley who isn't there at the moment, so you'll have to call him back later.

Genius.

 

[Dark Phazon]

He's not really a "boss" though. He is a stage hazard that happens to present itself in the form of a famous and popular boss character that everyone knows and loves.

For the record im curious do you think he will be playable?

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

from the size thing some of them are saying picture ridley without his wings in the shadow some people seem to have trouble so I made thses

With wings

Spoiler

Without wings
(not perfect)

Spoiler

see how ridley with out the wings sudden made him look smaller.

his wings have ben enormous threw the whole series so zoomed in with the wings makes him look like boss sized.

(don't forget to click each one for full size.)

 

[Dark Phazon]

If he is a character meant to be the opposite of Little Mac, why would that be surprising that he has an air grab?

Also Master Hand did not behave the way Ridley did. If you compare how other bosses did grabs, they telegraphed, and then moved at a speed to grab the opponent, and then they do damage.

What you are saying is "there is nothing weird at all about a boss being slightly larger than Bowser, moving slightly faster than Pikachu half-walking, not telegraphing, picking people up like a player would, and then not doing damage because he was probably just programmed that way." Which is some ridiculous-tier self-fulfilling logic, but okay.

And then land on the other side of the stage and most probly repeat thr same thing......i agree

In the full video you can see that he stops and turns around also that he jumps/glides in.

Is there a hole on that far side of the wall to the right that he can break through from?

 

[Oasis_S]

For the record im curious do you think he will be playable?

 

[Dark Phazon]

For the record he is the only character i give a damn about also Mewtwo but im not worried about his return at all.

I will continue to Support Ridley untill he is officialy confirmed not playable even if it takes till release.

Anyone can call me whatever i dont give a **** and if he doesnt make it in that truly sucks that 10+ years
later after melee i will still be playing as the same chars

Bowser
Samus
Mewtwo
G&W
(Gannondorf if he is half decent again....)

Seriously couldnt careless about any other characters.

Got one hope why not stick to it

Plus its not exzactly a one way street my biggest rope im holding on is that Sakurai aint that much of ****Tard to troll us on a insane evil level for a whole year and a half.

 

[majora_787]

Yeah that's the issue. In my earlier comparison to Bowser's shadow, once you take away the wings Ridley's body is about Bowser's size based off the shadow, maybe a little larger. Ridley's shadow like quadruples in size when you show his wings are open in flight.

 

[Fatmanonice]

I dunno... the whole situation is weird. Sakurai showed pretty much every angle of Pyrosphere as if to say "nope, no Ridley here" over the duration of 8 months and then only shows a shadow in the Direct as if it was a big mystery as to whom the shadow belonged to. I really don't get it especially when Ridley was also absent in the 300+ press pics that were released following the Direct. As I mentioned before, Sakurai has never handled character disconfirmations with kid gloves and has usually just outright said "I know this character is popular but dems da breaks" in a rip-the-bandage-off sort of fashion so, if Ridley is disconfirmed, I don't understand why this has been so convoluted and roundabout.

 

[Xhampi]

If sadly Ridley don't make it as a playable character but every other poppular choices like K Rool, Palutena and other Mewtwo does, I can't help but wonder how much poppularity Ridley is going to have for the next smash bros.

Imagine now if Boss Ridley happen to be just a little bit taller than the other playable characters, he's already really poppular now but if that happen HOLY NORFAIR Oo

 

[Dark Phazon]

I dunno... the whole situation is weird. Sakurai showed pretty much every angle of Pyrosphere as if to say "nope, no Ridley here" over the duration of 8 months and then only shows a shadow in the Direct as if it was a big mystery as to whom the shadow belonged to. I really don't get it especially when Ridley was also absent in the 300+ press pics that were released following the Direct. As I mentioned before, Sakurai has never handled character disconfirmations with kid gloves and has usually just outright said "I know this character is popular but dems da breaks" in a rip-the-bandage-off sort of fashion so, if Ridley is disconfirmed, I don't understand why this has been so convoluted and roundabout.

Worse of the Worse case scenario i can think of is all of this was to hype Ridley's return as a boss.......

(i seriousy dont even wanna think about that.....)

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Yeah that's the issue. In my earlier comparison to Bowser's shadow, once you take away the wings Ridley's body is about Bowser's size based off the shadow, maybe a little larger. Ridley's shadow like quadruples in size when you show his wings are open in flight.

Feel welcome to my ridley withpout wings for a second comparison if you want

 

[Substitute]

Worse of the Worse case scenario i can think of is all of this was to hype Ridley's return as a boss.......

(i seriousy dont even wanna think about that.....)

If Ridley IS announced I seriously think SmashBoards and the Internet will implode in on itself.

 

[xpnc]

I dunno... the whole situation is weird. Sakurai showed pretty much every angle of Pyrosphere as if to say "nope, no Ridley here" over the duration of 8 months and then only shows a shadow in the Direct as if it was a big mystery as to whom the shadow belonged to. I really don't get it especially when Ridley was also absent in the 300+ press pics that were released following the Direct. As I mentioned before, Sakurai has never handled character disconfirmations with kid gloves and has usually just outright said "I know this character is popular but dems da breaks" in a rip-the-bandage-off sort of fashion so, if Ridley is disconfirmed, I don't understand why this has been so convoluted and roundabout.

He's clearly aware of what he's doing so it's probably in preparation for something big
I don't want to say one way or another though

 

[BKupa666]

Here, Ridley is moving at a comparatively snail-like pace, casually grabs Pikachu, and continues on his merry way as if he was picking the mouse up to go get ice cream together (hmm, AndreaAC, get on that).

That's the character the TooBigots to which want him to be faithful...when they're not talking out of the other side of their mouths and claiming that he has no character whatsoever, that is.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I dunno... the whole situation is weird. Sakurai showed pretty much every angle of Pyrosphere as if to say "nope, no Ridley here" over the duration of 8 months and then only shows a shadow in the Direct as if it was a big mystery as to whom the shadow belonged to. I really don't get it especially when Ridley was also absent in the 300+ press pics that were released following the Direct. As I mentioned before, Sakurai has never handled character disconfirmations with kid gloves and has usually just outright said "I know this character is popular but dems da breaks" in a rip-the-bandage-off sort of fashion so, if Ridley is disconfirmed, I don't understand why this has been so convoluted and roundabout.

Yea I feel sakurai will rip the bandaid off for saying he could not make ridley playable

Just showing his shadow and plus we all thought toon link was dead near the very begining because of him as a conductor on the stage but then we all got suprised that we were wrong this could be one of those

But I woulden't get are hopes up too much

 

[FlareHabanero]

If Ridley IS announced I seriously think SmashBoards and the Internet will implode in on itself.

Clearly you've never saw the last Nintendo Direct.

Though it's not a good implosion.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Clearly you've never saw the last Nintendo Direct.

Though it's not a good implosion.

Its probly going to take forever for smashboards to reboot if the evidence from the shadow proove sakurai trolled again and confirms him playable

(Ridley could get a special case of being confirmed playable before the release of the 3ds version)

 

[CatRaccoonBL]

Though it's not a good implosion.

If you are referring to smashboards, yes, many people became upset and even left the site.

But the smash fan-base as a whole? From what I saw, more people cared about the fact Samus is wearing heels now then Ridley being deconfirmed.

Also, all the reaction videos I saw, and most of them had Ridley fans mind you, had people be like "Well that sucks..." and then proceeded to get hyped by everything else.

People cared, but they weren't angry...

 

[SureNsync]

There seem to be more evidence supporting Ridley's inclusion then going against it. If not playable, I rather Ridley be an Assist Trophy then a Boss/Stage Hazard.

 

[Groose]

Over the last couple of days, I've been doing some thinking and gathering my thoughts. I think it's finally time I come out and say what's on my mind with regards to Ridley. I know some of you won't agree, but please hear me out.

There are many things fishy about the Ridley footage and the way it was presented; it is possible to find things to suggest that he is playable. Even so, I don't think it would be wise for anyone to expect that he is in the game as a playable character. It all boils down to this: Ridley was teased in the context of being a boss. Yes, Sakurai is a troll, but we can't assume that this is the case here.

However, that should not mean that we abandon our support for our favorite Space Dragon. The main thing Ridley has going for him is his popularity, and we cannot let that falter. We should continue to create our art, our movesets, our support videos; we should continue to take up arms against the Toobigots; we should continue to talk about how great it would be if he were playable in a Smash title.

The only thing that we need to change is that we should no longer put much hope in seeing him in this title. Ridley has always been my second most wanted newcomer and will continue to be so until the day either he or K. Rool is confirmed to be playable in a Smash game. However, I will no longer approach him as I would my Rool or Shulk; although I will support him and spread the word around, I will temper my expectations. I will now treat Ridley the way I do Professor Layton or Hades--a character that I really, really want but just am not hopeful for.

I dunno... the whole situation is weird. Sakurai showed pretty much every angle of Pyrosphere as if to say "nope, no Ridley here" over the duration of 8 months and then only shows a shadow in the Direct as if it was a big mystery as to whom the shadow belonged to. I really don't get it especially when Ridley was also absent in the 300+ press pics that were released following the Direct. As I mentioned before, Sakurai has never handled character disconfirmations with kid gloves and has usually just outright said "I know this character is popular but dems da breaks" in a rip-the-bandage-off sort of fashion so, if Ridley is disconfirmed, I don't understand why this has been so convoluted and roundabout.

I expect that he's just hyping up his appearance as a hazardous stage boss. I don't know why he'd do such a thing because there really isn't anything special about that; he had a similar role in Brawl and DoA. It could be because he's a popular character, but that popularity is behind him being playable; does Sakurai not understand this?