Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Well...

​

...I've just recently found those videos extracted from the fan game SSB Crusade, and thought you would be interested.

We want him in super smash brothers wii u/3ds fan made versions don't count as big reactions

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

I get home and so many ppl quoted me, well here we go:



I don't walk into this thread hoping to crush anyone's dreams or argue, as I said I think Ridley is a cool character I just haven't played any Metroid and I wonder how you guys think he will be in with this size issue. I know I'm not gonna make friends in this thread but I'm curious lol.



This Bowser stuff again haha, ok then:

Mario Galaxy: Bowser is much bigger in this game, it's explained that this is due to him obtaining the power of the stars.

Paper Mario: Bowser is much smaller in this game, he grows to this size because he uses the Star Rod.

New Super Mario Bros. Wii: After Mario defeats him he falls into the lava below, and Kamek uses magic to save him and make him HUGE.

Now, if I were just some troll I wouldn't bring this up, BUT:

Here is part one of that fight. Bowser is a bit bigger than Mario compared to Smash Bros. BUT NOT BY MUCH.

So...about those Bowser inconsistencies...yeah. The few times he's shown to be MUCH bigger than Mario, it's due to magic or a power up, and is not his actual size. I think the sports games might be the same as the first battle in New Super Mario Bros. Wii, a bit bigger.





It seems weird to me, that was one of the pictures I was referring to. But since I'm not a Metroid fan I showed this to my friend who has played quite a few games, and he had this to say:

"Compared to Samus Ridley's too small, unless it's like a baby Ridley."

He continued to go on about how he wouldn't want to play as Ridley if that was his actual size, seeing as how Ridley is supposed to be huge and Samus should be able to fit in his mouth, her whole body, you know what I mean.

So, maybe I didn't play any Metroid, but I am a fan of Ridley, I loved fighting him as a boss and think he's awesome, hell I may even play a metroid game just because of him, I've been considering it, but I would agree that I don't want to use a baby version of him they shoved into the game to make him fit among the other fighters better.

BUT, what if Ridley was the first playable character to actually be huge? See now if they did that, and made it balanced, I would be happy with that! I imagine that would be tough to create and I dunno if Sakurai and co would go for it.

really your trying to prove again that all bowser size change is because of powers and magic. A few of them are by nothing on ds version bowser is shorter than the new super mario bros version. And when bowser is playable most of the time hes way shorter than the non possessed versions. Look at pizzadudemanguys video on ridleys size arguement

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Here's a thought. Bosses are resized based on the scenario.

Bowser is smaller when the idea is to sneak underneath him, but is much bigger when the object of the fight is different. Mario is a platformer in basically every aspect.

Ridley is big in general because the object of Metroid is to shoot ****, which would mean the smaller something is, the harder it is to hit. Metroid is a shooter/platforming hybrid.

However, this doesn't matter when it comes to Smash Bros. Why?

Because:

This game disregards all canon. If this game looked at "canon" or "realism" seriously...:

Mario nor Luigi could shoot fireballs without a fire flower
Mario couldn't hurt Bowser because in Mario games, you lose health if you touch him
Marth and Ike would be dead
Swords would kill characters
Olimar wouldn't be big enough to be visible
Mewtwo and/or Ganondorf would destroy basically everyone
Pokemon Trainer would be arrested for attacking people with his Pokemon
Ice Climbers couldn't use ice attacks. Because all they did in game was climb
Kirby would be tall enough to be underneath Mario's boot
Snake would use more guns in his moveset
R.O.B wouldn't be able to shoot lasers because he's an actual peripheral that didn't do much besides play games with you

I'm sure I could list others.

Also, as a video in here says, they're all TOYS! In Melee's intro, a kid grabs Mario, and chucks him into the air. The kid's hand is about the size of Mario. Ever see a toy that seemed really strangely sized? Well, I have an example.

Back in the good old days when I was really into Yu-Gi-Oh!, I wanted some of the toys that were out. This included a Yugi action figure, and eventually, an Exodia action figure. Well, in the series canon, Exodia is all powerful and towers above the player, right? Well this figure was only TWICE as tall as Yugi. Yea, weird right?

It's not all that different. Toys come in all shapes and sizes. If we took canon this seriously and didn't allow characters to do some of the things I listed, what fun would that be?

Have an imagination!

 

[SuperBrawler]

We need art like this.

 

[SmashBro99]

How about a better time?

Pause around 5:58.

You get a view from above. Mario's pretty tiny compared to Bowser. Especially in width.

Didn't see that before, but there he seems to be as big as he was in part one of the NSMBW battle, where he's BIGGER than he is in smash bros but not huge like Ridley usually is compared to Samus.

Even if there are one or two inconsistencies with Bowser, he's in enough games with Mario where we can see their size difference for what it is, maybe it isn't always the EXACT same, but now take all this and compare these size differences to Samus and Ridley, whole new ball game.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Didn't see that before, but there he seems to be as big as he was in part one of the NSMBW battle, where he's BIGGER than he is in smash bros but not gigantic like Ridley usually is compared to Samus...we're beating a dead horse here haha

He's a bit bigger than that.

 

[SmashBro99]

He's a bit bigger than that.

As I said in the edit, if Bowser has 1 or 2 inconsistencies Ridley has many more, and the difference in all these sizes are much larger. I've seen pictures of Ridley where he could fit all of Samus in his mouth, or he's tossing her around like a rag doll, or smashing her into walls like he did in Subspace Emissary...if he's Bowser's size he would look silly as he can't do any of that. If he's in I hope he's the first really big playable character or something :D

 

[majora_787]

Bowser can be explained with magic. How can Ridley not be explained with science by now? Seriously, he died, came back as a robot, died, came back as more of a robot, died, came back as a PHAZON robot, died, came back as a fully healed Ridley, died, was brought back through cloning, died, and had his corpse reanimated by a space parasite.

And this is a spinoff. Even though we can explain Ridley easily with superscience, do we even need to?

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I've seen pictures of Ridley where he could fit all of Samus in his mouth, or he's tossing her around like a rag doll, or smashing her into walls like he did in Subspace Emissary...if he's Bowser's size he would look silly as he can't do any of that.

If he was Bowser's size in Smash it wouldn't matter as he could only toss Samus around with ease if she was at a damage level was at a high percent. It would only look silly in the case that he would try to fit Samus in his mouth, and he doesn't need an attack like that if he was in Smash.

And before you say anything else about Ridley looking silly in Smash for whatever reason, let me say this: Is the idea of Snake, a tough, heavily armed realistic looking, soldier being able to be knocked around easily by characters such Pikachu, Kirby and Jigglypuff silly?

The "looking silly" argument is invalid.

 

[majora_787]

If you ever think nothing silly-looking is allowed in Smash, take two mental images.

1. Having your innards becoming outards because of an angry space dragon.
2. Solid Snake picking up a Jigglypuff and attempting to repeatedly snap its neck.

One of those things is silly-looking. One of them isn't. And as it sits right now, the silly-looking one is the one in Smash Bros. at all.

 

[SmashBro99]

I never liked that Snake was included, I mean he was snapping Jigglypuffs nonexistant neck lol.

So yes I found him silly and out of place in such a universe.

 

[Saint Johns]

I think that the way Ridley is sized in the Subspace Emissary is the way that Sakurai intended.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Ridley's size has always been inconsistent in Metroid games, so as long as he's still bigger than Samus it should be fine.

 

[Koopaul]

Sure Bowser shrinks and grows in his games, but what about Charizard and Pikachu? Do they shrink and grow in their games? No? Then explain this.

Yeah I'll keep posting this picture every time a size argument gets brought up. I'd love to hear someone counterargue this.

 

[KingofPhantoms]

I never liked that Snake was included, I mean he was snapping Jigglypuffs nonexistant neck lol.

So yes I found him silly and out of place in such a universe.

But Kojima (the creator of Metal Gear and a good friend of Sakurai) and Sakurai clearly do not care enough about Snake "looking silly" or "out of place" or else Kojima would not have asked to have him in Smash, and Sakurai would not have included him.

Ridley can easily be resized and made playable by Sakurai, even if you (or Sakurai for that matter) think he would look silly.


EDIT: OK sure, Ridley was pretty big in Brawl. But that's because he was made to be a boss. If Sakurai wanted to make Ridley playable, he'll shrink him to a proper fighting size, perhaps say, around the size he was in Melee's intro?

 

[IsmaR]

In Dream Team Bowser said "he invented the 'be giant' trick", basically saying everytime he is big he is using some kind of power.
Is not the same, bowser is big because of magic, is just natural to see him changing his size from one second to other.

It's not magic (or not always). He's alluding to the Big/Giant Bowser ability from Bowser's Inside Story. Which is caused by:

[collapse=You don't wanna know]Adrenaline being shot into his rectum.[/collapse]

Either way it's still a case of New Powers As the Plot Demands. Bosses/villains are as big as developers make them. All there is to it.

Ridley is just a disaster and there is no point to make it so big/small from one version to another, but he is always big.

Olimar is always small. So are Kirby characters, Pokemon (even Charizard is a measly 5'07") and R.O.B.

Meanwhile Ganondorf, who is always huge, has only been playable in Smash and has literally nothing else to go off of yet is just fine.

 

[Saint Johns]

Sure Bowser shrinks and grows in his games, but what about Charizard and Pikachu? Do they shrink and grow in their games? No? Then explain this.


Yeah I'll keep posting this picture every time a size argument gets brought up. I'd love to hear someone counterargue this.

This makes even less sense

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

You know a lot of people's reasons for thinking Ridley would look akward in Smash Bros. is due to his skeletal appearance. Have these people never seen Other M Ridley? That version of Ridley doesn't have said problem. Also, does Ridley's appearance in Melee not count? Sakurai made Ridley small himself in the past, for goodness sake.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

View attachment 4219

This makes even less sense

Only proving his point.

 

[Arcanir]

View attachment 4219

This makes even less sense

Yep, no size changes here at all.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

This Bowser stuff again haha, ok then:

Where the **** did that come from? I didn't even mention Bowser at all. Seems like you just wanted to whip out the Bowser argument for the **** of it. (EDIT: Oh wait, I did, but it wasn't important to my post, so you just lashed out at the only thing you could counter-argue. I used it as a comparison, because Bowser is scaled to the situation he is put in. In-game it might have some kind of excuse, which isn't very clear at all either, but from a game creating standpoint it's obvious that he's sized differently because he is put in different situations, like Ridley.)

Even then, your arguments are going very much in-depth, a bit too much, especially with the newer games, which makes no sense since Bowser was included back in Melee. Furthermore, I don't think Sakurai is looking for excuses in the source games for including specific characters, if he sees Bowser has been resized a couple of times, he likely thinks that's good enough.

 

[Zhadgon]

Here is pic, I can imagine something like this.

.n_n.

 

[Godzillathewonderdog]

Sizes for Pokemon in the show are different than the sizes of Pokemon in the games. However in the games Mewtwo is 6'07" and Pikachu is 1'04" yet in Melee Pikachu's 2/3 as tall as Mewtwo.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's a thought. Bosses are resized based on the scenario.

Bowser is smaller when the idea is to sneak underneath him, but is much bigger when the object of the fight is different. Mario is a platformer in basically every aspect.

Ridley is big in general because the object of Metroid is to shoot ****, which would mean the smaller something is, the harder it is to hit. Metroid is a shooter/platforming hybrid.

However, this doesn't matter when it comes to Smash Bros. Why?

Because:

This game disregards all canon. If this game looked at "canon" or "realism" seriously...:

Mario nor Luigi could shoot fireballs without a fire flower
Mario couldn't hurt Bowser because in Mario games, you lose health if you touch him
Marth and Ike would be dead
Swords would kill characters
Olimar wouldn't be big enough to be visible
Mewtwo and/or Ganondorf would destroy basically everyone
Pokemon Trainer would be arrested for attacking people with his Pokemon
Ice Climbers couldn't use ice attacks. Because all they did in game was climb
Kirby would be tall enough to be underneath Mario's boot
Snake would use more guns in his moveset
R.O.B wouldn't be able to shoot lasers because he's an actual peripheral that didn't do much besides play games with you

I'm sure I could list others.

Also, as a video in here says, they're all TOYS! In Melee's intro, a kid grabs Mario, and chucks him into the air. The kid's hand is about the size of Mario. Ever see a toy that seemed really strangely sized? Well, I have an example.

Back in the good old days when I was really into Yu-Gi-Oh!, I wanted some of the toys that were out. This included a Yugi action figure, and eventually, an Exodia action figure. Well, in the series canon, Exodia is all powerful and towers above the player, right? Well this figure was only TWICE as tall as Yugi. Yea, weird right?

It's not all that different. Toys come in all shapes and sizes. If we took canon this seriously and didn't allow characters to do some of the things I listed, what fun would that be?

Have an imagination!

This. This. And so much this.

 

[IsmaR]

Obviously Mewtwo's only 6'07" when standing on its tip-toes.

And I seem to recall posting this a few times before.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

As I said in the edit, if Bowser has 1 or 2 inconsistencies Ridley has many more, and the difference in all these sizes are much larger. I've seen pictures of Ridley where he could fit all of Samus in his mouth, or he's tossing her around like a rag doll, or smashing her into walls like he did in Subspace Emissary...if he's Bowser's size he would look silly as he can't do any of that. If he's in I hope he's the first really big playable character or something :D

It's not important to Ridley to be able to do so though. His primary ways of fighting is breathing fire, stabbing with the tail, he even scratches and charges head forward. The things you mention happen once or twice in Ridley's time, the things I mention happen in every game he is in (except the two latter mentioned which only happen in all of his 3D appearances).

 

[AustarusIV]

You know what would make a much better Metroid boss than the "reskinned Dyna-Blade" in Brawl?

The Metroid Queen. It would also give Ridley his much-needed revenge for killing him offscreen.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Oh yeah, btw guys, we hit 300 pages. Wohooo I guess.

In Dream Team Bowser said "he invented the 'be giant' trick", basically saying everytime he is big he is using some kind of power.
Is not the same, bowser is big because of magic, is just natural to see him changing his size from one second to other.

Ridley is just a disaster and there is no point to make it so big/small from one version to another, but he is always big.

Dream Team came out in 2013. Bowser was included in Smash Bros in 2001. So why in the name of all things cinnamon swirl would Dream Team matter at all to this discussion? Super Mario Bros 3, Super Mario 64 and Super Mario Kart matters (the first game doesn't matter, because of the same reason Metroid 1 doesn't matter to Ridley), 3 games where he is totally different sizes, anything that came out after Melee doesn't matter.

 

[Koopaul]

Enough Bowser, explain Wario and Mario. Go look at how tall Wario is compared to Mario in most of the games they are in, now look at how tall he is in Brawl... Wario is actually shorter than he should be in Brawl.

 

[SmashShadow]

You know what would make a much better Metroid boss than the "reskinned Dyna-Blade" in Brawl?

The Metroid Queen. It would also give Ridley his much-needed revenge for killing him offscreen.

Metroid Queen confirmed for Project M.

 

[MSmariosonic]

Here's a canon argument for you.

Marth and Ike should be dead by the time of Fire Emblem: Awakening.

OH WAIT. MARTH IS IN SMASH BROS AGAIN.

I know one more:

Gray Fox died in MGS yet he's still in Brawl.

My school has no plays going on, I have no games I haven't beaten, nothing left to read, no anime I'm interested in I haven't watched...bored

Get a job.

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

Get a job.

Lol owned

 

[MSmariosonic]

Yeah people like to argue.

No! We need to think about how hot Ridley is!

No no no. Space is cold...therefore is Ridley cool...not hot.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

No no no. Space is cold...therefore is Ridley cool...not hot.

So they're called the Cool Pirates?

 

[MSmariosonic]

As I said in the edit, if Bowser has 1 or 2 inconsistencies Ridley has many more, and the difference in all these sizes are much larger. I've seen pictures of Ridley where he could fit all of Samus in his mouth, or he's tossing her around like a rag doll, or smashing her into walls like he did in Subspace Emissary...if he's Bowser's size he would look silly as he can't do any of that. If he's in I hope he's the first really big playable character or something :D

Are you like a new species of troll? A new kind of...polite troll?

 

[Keeshu]

No no no. Space is cold...therefore is Ridley cool...not hot.

There's nothing hotter than a space dragon that breathes fire.

 

[MSmariosonic]

There's nothing hotter than a space dragon that breathes fire.

You're right...that is HOT, that is really HOT.

 

[?????????????]

 

[Scoliosis Jones]

The size argument is bad, not even because of Ridley, but because in Smash Bros., it's inconsistent in so many facets it's ridiculous.

Ganondorf should be twice the size of Link
R.O.B should be small enough to be held in one's hand
Olimar should be about the size of a quarter
Kirby should be slightly bigger than Olimar
Dedede should be only slightly bigger than Kirby (nowhere near the size he is in Smash)
Mewtwo should've been much taller if going by canon size
The legendary Pokemon should be much larger (Groudon) or smaller (Rayquaza if going by his appearance in Colosseum or XD)
Charizard should be bigger unless it isn't fully grown or something

Here's an idea to ponder too. If Little Mac get's into the game, would he stay the size he had in Brawl?

Sure, he looks decent here. But he's supposed to be the smallest right?! That makes his character completely! There isn't anything else distinguishable about his character!...RIGHT!!?!

Don't even bring those **** mods that people made of Ridley. Those are model swaps from Charizard and look god awful, nothing like what he would likely look like in game. I don't even think any of them are all that good.

I just like the straw man arguments. Shokio: DRAGONS IS BIG. Oh really?

Here's a dragon! Still not convinced?

This is Nowi from Fire Emblem: Awakening. What a large dragon! Oh...wait a second. Want another Smash Bros. example?

HEY MAN CHARIZARD IS TEH BIGGEST! IT'S NOT LIKE HE'S HARDLY TALLER THAN FOCKS OR POKEMANZ TRAINOR OR N ETHING! Oh wait...

WANT MOAR!!?!?

Here is Ganondorf vs. Link in Twilight Princess

Hey man, this guy's like the size of two Shaq's or something.

Here's Brawl:

 

[Keeshu]

Sometimes I think we need a separate thread for the "too big" argument.