Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[IsmaR]

I have faith that playable Ridley will be a hazard to all stages.

 

[LiteTheIronMan]

I have faith that playable Ridley will be a hazard to all stages.

that's it

that's the thread

we can all go home now

 

[IsmaR]

At first I thought you weren't being serious. But I guess everybody did go home.

 

[XenothiumX]

I've seen Ridley appear on Miiverse many times

 

[Guybrush20X6]

Anyone know of any Metroid anniversaries coming up?

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I think the closest anniversary is Metroid Prime on the 17th November, but not expecting anything from anniversaries since the original Metroid's anniversary went without anything.

 

[ChronoBound]

If Sakurai wanted to de-confirm Ridley (that is if he knows an unplayable Ridley would be met with a negative reaction), his best course of action would be to do it next week.

He would then get them to forget about it (or try to) by confirming Mewtwo the following week, and Sonic two weeks after that.

 

[FalKoopa]

Chrono is really preparing for the worst case scenario, it seems. Hope it doesn't have to come to that though.

 

[Starcutter]

well, i would say ridley's EVEN MORE possible for a playable character if he's still not shown as a hazard in a month or so.

that was posted about a month ago. think about it for a good bit. he's probably playable

 

[MasterOfKnees]

that was posted about a month ago. think about it for a good bit. he's probably playable

"Probably playable" might be a stretch, but he's probably not a stage hazard at the very least.

 

[LiteTheIronMan]

I think the closest anniversary is Metroid Prime on the 17th November, but not expecting anything from anniversaries since the original Metroid's anniversary went without anything.

people were expecting a ZSS reveal on Other M's release date but we've passed that.

hrm... let's see... Sakurai's been pushing Japanese anniversaries/release dates.

Metroid celebrated its original game's release date (August 6th, 1986 in Japan, a year later in NA) and nothing came about from that this year... (or the year before, which was Metroid's 25th anniversary... but I'm not going to dwell on my anger regarding that right now.)

Metroid II came out on January 2nd, 1992 in Japan.

The next most significant anniversary I can think of beyond the anniversary of the franchise is Super Metroid's release date, March 19th 1994 in Japan.

Metroid Fusion and Metroid Prime came out February 14th and 28th, 2003, in Japan. in America, they're the next two games to celebrate an anniversary- November 17/18, 2002.

Echoes came out May 26th, 2005 in Japan.

unless Sakurai is a total troll, he's not going to observe Pinball's release date- January 19, 2006 in Japan.

Hunters came out in Japan on June 1, 2006. Incidentally, First Hunt in November of 2004.

Corruption's US anniversary already passed... August 27th, 2007. in Japan it came out March 8, 2008.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

I think we can scratch Metroid II, Echoes and Hunters off the list, since Ridley didn't make an appearance in those games, and Samus in her Zero Suit made minimal appearances in those. Plus, they're kind of the oddball games of the franchise (not taking Pinball into consideration.)

I'd say if a Metroid character is going to be revealed on any anniversary, it's going to be on Super Metroid's, unless the game releases after August, in which case there's again a potential reveal with Metroid's original anniversary and Other M's anniversary.

 

[bobadz]

I still stand by the fact that if he were just a stage hazard Sakurai would have revealed him already. I think he's just trying to build suspense. For all we know lava may be the only stage hazard.

 

[ChronoBound]

I still stand by the fact that if he were just a stage hazard Sakurai would have revealed him already. I think he's just trying to build suspense. For all we know lava may be the only stage hazard.

If I see a picture of with the lava at a different level than other pics, I will definitely feel safe.

I do agree though if Ridley was a stage hazard, it would be common sense to simply show him off and get it out of the way, especially early on. To simply drag it out and try and play mindgames with the fanbase is not trolling, its simply mean-spirited.

 

[jaytalks]

this whole stage hazard timeline thing implies Sakurai has a method, which he clearly doesnt. Sakurai isn't really responsive to tease reactions, especially from the english speaking community, in which Ridley's support is the strongest.

Sakurai likes to surprise people. Hence, teasing something and waiting longer than a month, allowing people to forget about it, than revealing something recaptures the surprise element.

Tthere is no reason to think that since a month has passed and Ridley hasn't been revealed as a stage hazard means he's a playable character or even likely to be. Remember, Sakurai regrets how the Dojo basically told us everything. I would not be surprised if that tease was all we got until the game is released, and then we find out he's a stage hazard.

 

[Guybrush20X6]

So first we figure out the logic and then we go against that because Sakurai doesn't work that way?

 

[AnOkayDM]

this whole stage hazard timeline thing implies Sakurai has a method, which he clearly doesnt. Sakurai isn't really responsive to tease reactions, especially from the english speaking community, in which Ridley's support is the strongest.

Sakurai likes to surprise people. Hence, teasing something and waiting longer than a month, allowing people to forget about it, than revealing something recaptures the surprise element.

Tthere is no reason to think that since a month has passed and Ridley hasn't been revealed as a stage hazard means he's a playable character or even likely to be. Remember, Sakurai regrets how the Dojo basically told us everything. I would not be surprised if that tease was all we got until the game is released, and then we find out he's a stage hazard.

Except that for every other stage with a hazard, he's shown it off soon after revealing it. Also, he's not so big a moron that he thinks delaying the deconfirmation of a character important to much of the game's fanbase is going to make it easier to swallow.

 

[LiteTheIronMan]

Except that for every other stage with a hazard, he's shown it off soon after revealing it. Also, he's not that big a moron that he thinks delaying the deconfirmation of a character important to much of the game's fanbase Is going to make it easier to swallow.

this. also, Ridley has literally been the most demanded character for this game, and I'm sure he knows it.

 

[jaytalks]

Except that for every other stage with a hazard, he's shown it off soon after revealing it. Also, he's not so big a moron that he thinks delaying the deconfirmation of a character important to much of the game's fanbase is going to make it easier to swallow.

eh what? I missed the part where he showed all thirty plus stages for the Wii U (or 60 + with the 3DS stages). how many of the stages in smash 4 currently shown have stage hazards now? That's a pretty small sample size to even consider making a pattern from. They've shown the yellow devil, the scrolling stages, the reset bomb, and maybe something from the pikmin stage? that's about it.

This is the first time Sakurai has done reveals solely with screenshots. There is not enough data to establish a pattern.

this. also, Ridley has literally been the most demanded character for this game, and I'm sure he knows it.

it's different among regions, as Metroid has become less popular over time in Japan. regardless, my point is that he is separated from the reaction his words receive.

and popularity is drastically over considered as a factor. how exactly would Sakurai measure popularity? Visit forums? Scroll through Miiverse? See which character he gets the most tweets? Smash's audience is huge; there hasn't been away to judge that type of consensus for a while. Not to mention being the most popular characters has never guaranteed a spot in smash. usually important characters are popular anyways.

The timeline theory is based on limited knowledge of Sakurai's methods.

 

[TumblrFamous]

Guys, just wanna say, Sakurai never said anything about anyone being a stage hazard. For all we know, he could be a background characters flying out the hole and back through it when he's done flying around the stage.

Still, though, it'd still be stupid to delay a background scene, or a stage hazard if he is one.

 

[jaytalks]

Guys, just wanna say, Sakurai never said anything about anyone being a stage hazard. For all we know, he could be a background characters flying out the hole and back through it when he's done flying around the stage.

Still, though, it'd still be stupid to delay a background scene, or a stage hazard if he is one.

the thing is, he isn't delaying it. there is no obligation that he has to show anything after tease. in fact, after a tease, it's always better to build suspense after a tease. He has no obligation to have any order in which he shows the stages or elements of stages. he doesnt have to release any of the screenshots at all. he chooses to for the fans. how many other major games in development show a screenshot a day of its progress?

but yeah, ridley could in theory be any of the three: playable characters, stage hazard, or part of the background.

 

[TumblrFamous]

the thing is, he isn't delaying it. there is no obligation that he has to show anything after tease. in fact, after a tease, it's always better to build suspense after a tease. He has no obligation to have any order in which he shows the stages or elements of stages. he doesnt have to release any of the screenshots at all. he chooses to for the fans. how many other major games in development show a screenshot a day of its progress?

but yeah, ridley could in theory be any of the three: playable characters, stage hazard, or part of the background.

I'm not complaining that he's not showing us Ridley, I'm not that selfish. In fact I love the suspense that is building. But it'd be weird, to build this much suspense just for a stage hazard, or a background.

But I'm fine with whatever happens, it's Sakurai's game.

 

[AnOkayDM]

eh what? I missed the part where he showed all thirty plus stages for the Wii U (or 60 + with the 3DS stages). how many of the stages in smash 4 currently shown have stage hazards now? That's a pretty small sample size to even consider making a pattern from. They've shown the yellow devil, the scrolling stages, the reset bomb, and maybe something from the pikmin stage? that's about it.

This is the first time Sakurai has done reveals solely with screenshots. There is not enough data to establish a pattern.

I meant every stage that's been shown and you know it, so don't be pedantic. He's shown the Yellow Devil, the planes on the Pilotwings stage, the Reset Bomb, possibly the Gyroid on the Animal Crossing stage...not to mention the fact that Skyloft moves around, the spike pillars on the 3DS Mario stage, the fire in Gerudo Valley, potentially stuff from the Garden of Hope...and all of those with far less coverage than what's been shown of Pyrosphere. That's most of the stages that have been shown extensively enough to warrant scrutiny, and Pyrosphere has been covered more than basically any other stage.

I'd say there's plenty of data to establish a pattern, and plenty of reason to find it likely that Ridley's not involved in this stage.

 

[jaytalks]

I meant every stage that's been shown and you know it, so don't be pedantic. He's shown the Yellow Devil, the planes on the Pilotwings stage, the Reset Bomb, possibly the Gyroid on the Animal Crossing stage...not to mention the fact that Skyloft moves around, the spike pillars on the 3DS Mario stage, the fire in Gerudo Valley, potentially stuff from the Garden of Hope...and all of those with far less coverage than what's been shown of Pyrosphere. That's most of the stages that have been shown extensively enough to warrant scrutiny, and Pyrosphere has been covered more than basically any other stage.

I'd say there's plenty of data to establish a pattern, and plenty of reason to find it likely that Ridley's not involved in this stage.

yeah, and there is still a potential for any of the unknown stages to not follow the pattern. stage scrolling is much different than showing a stage hazard. all you need to show is to screens and you've revealed the scrolling. the gerudo fire was months after the initial E3 reveal. We still don't know everything that's in the Garden of Hope, or what exactly everything does. and we can't be sure of all of the elements have been revealed on any of the stages really. there could be more to each individual stage.

So again, how many stage hazards really have been revealed? have we seen every stage hazard in the skyloft stage? or even the mario stage? you have to remember that there are more elements to show of a stage than just its stage hazard. All the stages have multiple elements and graphical features, and even multiple different stage hazards

the problem with the pattern/theory your outlining is that A) it fits a specific bias B) it does not include the possibility of other factors leading to development of reveals C) it relies on a method that Sakurai has never said he established, and that he can change at any time.

I would love RIdley to be in the game, but using false logic to predict his likelihood doesn't help.

 

[Yomi's Biggest Fan]

Crack and holes, cracks and holes, Ridley's gotta have him some cracks and holes.

 

[LiteTheIronMan]

yeah, and there is still a potential for any of the unknown stages to not follow the pattern. stage scrolling is much different than showing a stage hazard. all you need to show is to screens and you've revealed the scrolling. the gerudo fire was months after the initial E3 reveal. We still don't know everything that's in the Garden of Hope, or what exactly everything does. and we can't be sure of all of the elements have been revealed on any of the stages really. there could be more to each individual stage.

So again, how many stage hazards really have been revealed? have we seen every stage hazard in the skyloft stage? or even the mario stage? you have to remember that there are more elements to show of a stage than just its stage hazard. All the stages have multiple elements and graphical features, and even multiple different stage hazards

the problem with the pattern/theory your outlining is that A) it fits a specific bias B) it does not include the possibility of other factors leading to development of reveals C) it relies on a method that Sakurai has never said he established, and that he can change at any time.

I would love RIdley to be in the game, but using false logic to predict his likelihood doesn't help.

pretty sure previous Brawl stage reveals showed off everything about the stage without circlejerking or hiding anything. pretty straightforward.

 

[jaytalks]

pretty sure previous Brawl stage reveals showed off everything about the stage without circlejerking or hiding anything. pretty straightforward.

right. and Sakurai regretted how much he showed in Brawl and the use of the dojo. He's hasnt spoken well about the dojo in regards to what he is doing for Smash 4.

And there's the fact that he isn't doing stage reveals the same way he did for Brawl. The dojo hasn't returned and he is doing all reveals quite differently.

 

[AnOkayDM]

yeah, and there is still a potential for any of the unknown stages to not follow the pattern. stage scrolling is much different than showing a stage hazard. all you need to show is to screens and you've revealed the scrolling. the gerudo fire was months after the initial E3 reveal. We still don't know everything that's in the Garden of Hope, or what exactly everything does. and we can't be sure of all of the elements have been revealed on any of the stages really. there could be more to each individual stage.

So again, how many stage hazards really have been revealed? have we seen every stage hazard in the skyloft stage? or even the mario stage? you have to remember that there are more elements to show of a stage than just its stage hazard. All the stages have multiple elements and graphical features, and even multiple different stage hazards

the problem with the pattern/theory your outlining is that A) it fits a specific bias B) it does not include the possibility of other factors leading to development of reveals C) it relies on a method that Sakurai has never said he established, and that he can change at any time.

I would love RIdley to be in the game, but using false logic to predict his likelihood doesn't help.

-Yes, there's plenty of potential there. But the pattern, up until this point at least, is holding true.
-Stage scrolling is a hazard. You can get harmed and killed by it. What's your point about showing off scrolling? All you have to do is show someone getting hurt by something you hadn't previously shown and you've showed off a new hazard. Amazing, isn't it?
-The Gerudo fire was shown off in the very first (and actually only) picture of the stage since E3.
-It's still a lot of things that could be hazards, and they were shown off soon after the reveal of the stage.
-Yes, I'm sure there could be plenty more to each stage. That doesn't change the fact that elements of the stage are usually shown shortly after the stage is revealed.

Maybe we have seen every stage hazard. Maybe we haven't. The point is that we've seen hazards for the stages, usually soon after they were revealed. And I haven't even brought up that none of these have involved (a) a hint at a highly-requested character or (b) dragging out the reveal of a potential hazard or element.

The problem with your argument is that you're not acknowledging the basic fact that, unlike just about every other stage reveal prior to this one, there has not been a single gameplay element shown off. Maybe things will change. Maybe they're already changing. But according to the way things have gone in the past, it's not likely that this stage has a hazard. It's been over a month since it was revealed and we've seen a number of pictures of it, showing off both normal gameplay and specific details, and not a mention of a stage hazard. Not even moving platforms or anything. He showed off a picture of the lava but didn't say it was rising. He showed a picture of the hole and made no mention or hint of anything coming through it. Whereas the very next picture of Pilotwings, after it was revealed, showed Link and Samus standing on the plane as it took off; the next picture after that showed Pikachu and Fox fighting on a different plane as the original one flies by; the next one showed Wuhu Island, detailing that this was a mashup stage or Pilotwings old and new; and the one after that shows the new plane soaring through Wuhu Island's town center.

I've been in enough internet debates to realize we're not going to convince each other, so go ahead and reply, but I'm done. Enjoy your opinion, and I'll stick to mine.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Yeah, the thing with Pyrosphere is that they have gone 100% into detail with it, looking down the lava, looking straight into the hole, Sakurai has made various comments about the stage, and there's been 4 or so other pictures of it with nothing but neutral fighting too. Sakurai wouldn't go around and take a pointless snapshot of the hole before unveiling a hazard, that'd be like intentionally meeting 4 hours late to a party, just to kick someone in the nuts and go home again. It has little to do with patterns and more to do with common sense.

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Guys...

Shokio is here!

0_o

 

[LiteTheIronMan]

right. and Sakurai regretted how much he showed in Brawl and the use of the dojo. He's hasnt spoken well about the dojo in regards to what he is doing for Smash 4.

And there's the fact that he isn't doing stage reveals the same way he did for Brawl. The dojo hasn't returned and he is doing all reveals quite differently.

he never said this. he's said the opposite, in fact. he's said that a Dojo!!-esque site will be coming later.

 

[MasterOfKnees]

Guys...

Shokio is here!

0_o

Tell him to pay a visit here at some point, maybe we can show him that dragons come in all shapes and sizes too. (Or we could tell him the actual reason why it's okay to scale down Bowser and scale up Olimar.)

 

[8-peacock-8]

>Shokio
>Here

 

[jaytalks]

The problem with your argument is that you're not acknowledging the basic fact that, unlike just about every other stage reveal prior to this one, there has not been a single gameplay element shown off. Maybe things will change. Maybe they're already changing. But according to the way things have gone in the past, it's not likely that this stage has a hazard. It's been over a month since it was revealed and we've seen a number of pictures of it, showing off both normal gameplay and specific details, and not a mention of a stage hazard. Not even moving platforms or anything. He showed off a picture of the lava but didn't say it was rising. He showed a picture of the hole and made no mention or hint of anything coming through it. Whereas the very next picture of Pilotwings, after it was revealed, showed Link and Samus standing on the plane as it took off; the next picture after that showed Pikachu and Fox fighting on a different plane as the original one flies by; the next one showed Wuhu Island, detailing that this was a mashup stage or Pilotwings old and new; and the one after that shows the new plane soaring through Wuhu Island's town center.

I'd rather not get in tit for tat on the stage reveal details, but one I'm pretty sure the fire was revealed in this screenshot. In august. If I'm wrong, let me know.

1) my argument: 1 month of not showing Ridley as a stage hazard does not make him probably to be a playable character rather than as a stage hazard. nor does it seem make him even more likely to be a playable character. that is poor logic.
2)We don't know everything about every stage. By your own admission, the Garden of Hope stage is unclear. And what exactly is a gameplay element? characters have been shown fighting on the stage. Not every stage has a "gameplay element" and the ones that have hazards have not revealed all their hazards. Battlefield as far as I know does not have a gameplay element.

I do see what you're saying though so I am a little more open to the idea that this was a tease for Ridley as a character.

Yeah, the thing with Pyrosphere is that they have gone 100% into detail with it, looking down the lava, looking straight into the hole, Sakurai has made various comments about the stage, and there's been 4 or so other pictures of it with nothing but neutral fighting too. Sakurai wouldn't go around and take a pointless snapshot of the hole before unveiling a hazard, that'd be like intentionally meeting 4 hours late to a party, just to kick someone in the nuts and go home again. It has little to do with patterns and more to do with common sense.

It's impossible to show 100% of the stage. Like it's impossible to show 100% of the skyloft stage. Because we don't know exactly how the stage works yet. We won't know until we've see some video.

We don't know what Sakurai wouldnt do. As I've said, he is insulated from any particular community's reaction.

he never said this. he's said the opposite, in fact. he's said that a Dojo!!-esque site will be coming later.

I thought this was Dojo-esque site. I do recall him saying he regretted showing too much before Brawl.


Edit: Maybe not regret, but:
PN: During the development of Brawl you were very open with the fans through the Dojo, where you revealed many a lot of information on the game. Are you going to do the same or are you going to keep some surprises for the release of the game? Many players felt like they knew everything about Brawl before it was even released...

S: We won't share as much info this time around. You'll have information on characters and pictures through the official website but not always detailed info like it was the case in the past.
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/...s-dlc-music-selection-and-direction-new-game/

 

[MasterOfKnees]

It's impossible to show 100% of the stage. Like it's impossible to show 100% of the skyloft stage. Because we don't know exactly how the stage works yet. We won't know until we've see some video.

We don't know what Sakurai wouldnt do. As I've said, he is insulated from any particular community's reaction.

Sakurai is for the most part very much in touch with the community, which is why he made comments on the Brawl site about people that wanted Waluigi as a playable character and why he felt forced to add Sonic into Brawl. Sakurai is in charge of Nintendo's biggest hype machine, not only does he follow the community (or he has people hired to do that, that's not unheard of,) but he knows exactly the kind of reactions people come with when seeing just about anything. It's quite obvious that he went to E3 personally to introduce Wii Fit Trainer to get a vibe of the reaction to the character, most likely because he was afraid of another R.O.B-fest, and also a vibe of how people reacted to Mega Man.

Point is, why show off such little details as the hole, but not show off the main driving force of the stage? Why would he give us the wrong impression of the stage when he obviously is giving us a totally different impression of it right now? It just doesn't add up.

 

[LiteTheIronMan]

I thought this was Dojo-esque site. I do recall him saying he regretted showing too much before Brawl.


Edit: Maybe not regret, but:
PN: During the development of Brawl you were very open with the fans through the Dojo, where you revealed many a lot of information on the game. Are you going to do the same or are you going to keep some surprises for the release of the game? Many players felt like they knew everything about Brawl before it was even released...

S: We won't share as much info this time around. You'll have information on characters and pictures through the official website but not always detailed info like it was the case in the past.
http://www.eventhubs.com/news/2013/...s-dlc-music-selection-and-direction-new-game/

later on he said that he was specifically referring to stuff like the story mode which he later came out as saying that he removed. he had also said that he would escalate the information on the game from Pics of the Day to more detailed info. I'm having a hard time finding the link but I remember him saying that

 

[jaytalks]

Sakurai is for the most part very much in touch with the community, which is why he made comments on the Brawl site about people that wanted Waluigi as a playable character and why he felt forced to add Sonic into Brawl. Sakurai is in charge of Nintendo's biggest hype machine, not only does he follow the community (or he has people hired to do that, that's not unheard of,) but he knows exactly the kind of reactions people come with when seeing just about anything. It's quite obvious that he went to E3 personally to introduce Wii Fit Trainer to get a vibe of the reaction to the character, most likely because he was afraid of another R.O.B-fest, and also a vibe of how people reacted to Mega Man.

I think Sonic scored number 1 in that poll they did. I didn't see WFT as that. It tied into promoting a game for the Wii U. I don't think he is really concerned about the R.O.B. fest or whatever. He does know what goes on in the community, but I don't think he is responsive to it. Meaning he doesn't react on the basis of the community's reaction. He seems very artistically independent as far as developer's go to me. Smashboards leans heavily to the hardcore. He has said he wants to work on the silent majority of Brawl, whatever that is.

Point is, why show off such little details as the hole, but not show off the main driving force of the stage? Why would he give us the wrong impression of the stage when he obviously is giving us a totally different impression of it right now? It just doesn't add up.

I don't think there is that type of deliberate thinking on his part. I generally don't think stage hazards are the driving force of the stage, unless maybe we are talking about a scrolling stage. I think Sakurai feels the same way.

My guess would be that he hopes fans don't hanging on his every word. Also, his primary concern is gameplay not the characters in the game, based on his comments. He's only said one or two sentences regarding ridley (and even then that was super vague) and yet the quote has been analyzed to death for over a month.

later on he said that he was specifically referring to stuff like the story mode which he later came out as saying that he removed. he had also said that he would escalate the information on the game from Pics of the Day to more detailed info. I'm having a hard time finding the link but I remember him saying that

I wasn't referring to the story mode at all. I guess I misremembered his reasoning for less info.
That would be great news on the second part. But that still wouldn't change the nature of the reveals we have now. That would mean that we would get more info whenever the info escalated, but not durying this pic a day process.

 

[No Control]

Hi there, new here from the UK, just popped by to say I'm a big supporter of Ridley and have been since pre-Brawl (when I first started following character speculation and stuff). My #1 choice for an SSB4 newcomer.

 

[jaytalks]

Hi there, new here from the UK, just popped by to say I'm a big supporter of Ridley and have been since pre-Brawl (when I first started following character speculation and stuff). My #1 choice for an SSB4 newcomer.

welcome to the forums!

 

[Swamp Sensei]

Hi there, new here from the UK, just popped by to say I'm a big supporter of Ridley and have been since pre-Brawl (when I first started following character speculation and stuff). My #1 choice for an SSB4 newcomer.

Good to have ya here!

Make yourself at home.