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Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

MasterOfKnees

MasterOfKnees

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Groose said:
Where? I want his autograph!We may not agree on everything (especially Ridley), but that man is one to be respected. He tells it straight.

Anywho, I've come to this realization about Ridley. Stick with me, people:

1) Ridley's size is a problem.
Sorry, fellow Ridley enthusiasts. The "too big" crew has a point. Ridley has to be substantially bigger than Samus (already one of the game's largest characters), but that's not really the core of the matter. The main problem is when you compound Ridley's size with his shape: Rildey's skinny and jointed body attached to those giant wings and snout make him difficult to design. The concept artists not only have to downsize him; they also have to make sure that all of his parts stay in proportion. The programmers have to make sure his animations are fluid, which is no easy task when he has so many joints and those giant wings.

Keep in mind that this is the worst possible entry for Ridley to join. I'm talking about the 3DS and Wii-U versions... it would be even more difficult to make such a complex character in TWO different systems. It would have been much easier to make him in the previous entries in the series, when only one game was made at a time.

Making Ridley playable is far more difficult than making any other conceivable character. K. Rool's rotund shape is easy to design and animate, Little Mac is a basic humanoid, Toad is simple and cartoony. I'd say that it with the time it would take to design and program Ridley, the developers could have made two simpler characters.

2) Problems can be solved. Ridley is worth the effort.
It would take a great amount of manpower to make Ridley satisfyingly playable. But it can be done if enough resources are put behind the idea. Charizard faces some of the same problems Ridley does (if on a lesser scale), and he's playable. Ice Climbers and Captain Olimar both took a great deal of work and the former wasn't even commonly requested or "important."

It basically boils down to this: would you rather have an awesome Ridley or two simpler but perhaps lovable characters?

I'd rather have Ridley. He's important and who DOESN'T want to play as a giant space dragon? Although I don't hold him in as high esteem as the most devoted of Ridley supporters (sorry guys; he is not so important that his lack of Melee playability is a crime), I fully acknowledge that he's one of the top five most important Nintendo characters left. His inclusion would please a great deal of people and he's too awesome not to attract the kiddies.

At this point, when we're seriously considering Waluigi and one-off characters as playable (not a bad thing), Ridley stands out as a diamond in the rough. I'm not going to ragequit and bail on the game if he's not playable, but it would be a real shame to let him fly this go round.
Click to expand...
These are in fact completely valid points. Ridley is a hard character to make, exactly because of his proportions, and I've been saying that before. The reason he hasn't made it in yet most definitely doesn't lie with Sakurai having some stupid principle that Ridley is supposed to be big, he obviously has no problem with scaling characters up and down. It's most likely because he's a very hard character to make, and in Brawl they simply couldn't set aside other characters in order to make Ridley work, because just about every character in Brawl was also incredibly important to add to the game. Heck, the Brawl crew was already incredibly pressed with time, as we can see with Mewtwo being cut, the last thing they needed was a Ridley to the face.

This time around, matters are different. I mean, it's not unrealistic to say that Ridley takes the work of two very simple characters, but honestly, what very simple characters can they add by now? Voltorb and Hammer Bro? The point is that the amount of all-star Nintendo characters have decreased drastically since Brawl, because most of them were added in Brawl, and there has been no real all-stars made since Brawl. The only Nintendo All-Stars I consider being left are Ridley, King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Toad and Little Mac, a Nintendo All-Stars game could potentially do without every other character that's on the table right now. Mind you I'm not in support of Dixie or Toad, but I acknowledge their importance and their iconic status.

Like you said, Ridley is very much worth the effort now, he in all honesty probably wasn't in Brawl since they had so many other game seller newcomers like Sonic, Dedede, Wario, Diddy Kong, etc. There's only one newcomer that can get the west to explode with hype, and that's Ridley, sure Mewtwo returning would be a bigger thing, but he's a veteran at heart, and we need more than Mega Man and Mewtwo to make this game's hype at least compare to Brawl's. In that sense, Ridley is very much worth the effort now, especially when Sakurai has said he intentionally don't want to make the roster too big (lul) in order to avoid imbalance. With this game, all stars really should align for Ridley, and if he isn't in, then he's never getting in. I don't think that designing the game on multiple platforms is a problem for him, because it's quite clear that they pretty much just port the data from the Wii U to the 3DS, and the outlines would help Ridley not look like a big purple cluster**** on a small screen.

To end this with, I want to make a comparison. While Ridley most definitely is a very hard character to design, Sakurai has already been responsible for a much more complex character: Pokémon Trainer. Pokémon Trainer didn't only face the problems that Ivysaur was the first character to not have any arms and Charizard is like designing Ridley-Beta version, but there's also balancing to take into consideration, a shared health poll, 3 unique movesets, not to mention likely the hardest of them all; How to properly load the data of each Pokémon in-battle. If Ridley has a truckload of design challenges, Pokémon Trainer was a castle of unexplored and incredibly tough design challenges. But yet, they managed to create such a incredible character as the Pokémon Trainer, and he was far from the most broken character in the game either, despite some balance problems there was nothing completely broken about him, that in itself is a huge accomplishment. That just goes to show that if Sakurai thinks a character is worth the time and effort, he will get that character in. If he thinks Ridley is worth the time and effort, then he will be in.
 
Guybrush20X6

Guybrush20X6

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I'm sure the problem of Ridley's complex design could be solved. They got around Ivysaur's quadruped body by making it's flower count as it's head. (Look at where Snake grabs it.)

The one main problem that Ridley has over Charizard is that Charizard has stumpy hind legs rather than Ridley's long ones.
 
Dark Phazon

Dark Phazon

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Wariofan1 said:
These are in fact completely valid points. Ridley is a hard character to make, exactly because of his proportions, and I've been saying that before. The reason he hasn't made it in yet most definitely doesn't lie with Sakurai having some stupid principle that Ridley is supposed to be big, he obviously has no problem with scaling characters up and down. It's most likely because he's a very hard character to make, and in Brawl they simply couldn't set aside other characters in order to make Ridley work, because just about every character in Brawl was also incredibly important to add to the game. Heck, the Brawl crew was already incredibly pressed with time, as we can see with Mewtwo being cut, the last thing they needed was a Ridley to the face.

This time around, matters are different. I mean, it's not unrealistic to say that Ridley takes the work of two very simple characters, but honestly, what very simple characters can they add by now? Voltorb and Hammer Bro? The point is that the amount of all-star Nintendo characters have decreased drastically since Brawl, because most of them were added in Brawl, and there has been no real all-stars made since Brawl. The only Nintendo All-Stars I consider being left are Ridley, King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Toad and Little Mac, a Nintendo All-Stars game could potentially do without every other character that's on the table right now. Mind you I'm not in support of Dixie or Toad, but I acknowledge their importance and their iconic status.

Like you said, Ridley is very much worth the effort now, he in all honesty probably wasn't in Brawl since they had so many other game seller newcomers like Sonic, Dedede, Wario, Diddy Kong, etc. There's only one newcomer that can get the west to explode with hype, and that's Ridley, sure Mewtwo returning would be a bigger thing, but he's a veteran at heart, and we need more than Mega Man and Mewtwo to make this game's hype at least compare to Brawl's. In that sense, Ridley is very much worth the effort now, especially when Sakurai has said he intentionally don't want to make the roster too big (lul) in order to avoid imbalance. With this game, all stars really should align for Ridley, and if he isn't in, then he's never getting in. I don't think that designing the game on multiple platforms is a problem for him, because it's quite clear that they pretty much just port the data from the Wii U to the 3DS, and the outlines would help Ridley not look like a big purple cluster**** on a small screen.

To end this with, I want to make a comparison. While Ridley most definitely is a very hard character to design, Sakurai has already been responsible for a much more complex character: Pokémon Trainer. Pokémon Trainer didn't only face the problems that Ivysaur was the first character to not have any arms and Charizard is like designing Ridley-Beta version, but there's also balancing to take into consideration, a shared health poll, 3 unique movesets, not to mention likely the hardest of them all; How to properly load the data of each Pokémon in-battle. If Ridley has a truckload of design challenges, Pokémon Trainer was a castle of unexplored and incredibly tough design challenges. But yet, they managed to create such a incredible character as the Pokémon Trainer, and he was far from the most broken character in the game either, despite some balance problems there was nothing completely broken about him, that in itself is a huge accomplishment. That just goes to show that if Sakurai thinks a character is worth the time and effort, he will get that character in. If he thinks Ridley is worth the time and effort, then he will be in.
Click to expand...
real-talk.jpg


Sorry....ermmmm..i no its off topic but i need some true personal advice.

Im thinking of getting dream team bros right now.

Is it worth it is it good compared to the othee ones in the series?
I am a fan if the series and have played all.

Saga
Partners in time
Bowsers inside story.
 
Groose

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Wariofan1 said:
These are in fact completely valid points. Ridley is a hard character to make, exactly because of his proportions, and I've been saying that before. The reason he hasn't made it in yet most definitely doesn't lie with Sakurai having some stupid principle that Ridley is supposed to be big, he obviously has no problem with scaling characters up and down. It's most likely because he's a very hard character to make, and in Brawl they simply couldn't set aside other characters in order to make Ridley work, because just about every character in Brawl was also incredibly important to add to the game. Heck, the Brawl crew was already incredibly pressed with time, as we can see with Mewtwo being cut, the last thing they needed was a Ridley to the face.

This time around, matters are different. I mean, it's not unrealistic to say that Ridley takes the work of two very simple characters, but honestly, what very simple characters can they add by now? Voltorb and Hammer Bro? The point is that the amount of all-star Nintendo characters have decreased drastically since Brawl, because most of them were added in Brawl, and there has been no real all-stars made since Brawl. The only Nintendo All-Stars I consider being left are Ridley, King K. Rool, Dixie Kong, Toad and Little Mac, a Nintendo All-Stars game could potentially do without every other character that's on the table right now. Mind you I'm not in support of Dixie or Toad, but I acknowledge their importance and their iconic status.

Like you said, Ridley is very much worth the effort now, he in all honesty probably wasn't in Brawl since they had so many other game seller newcomers like Sonic, Dedede, Wario, Diddy Kong, etc. There's only one newcomer that can get the west to explode with hype, and that's Ridley, sure Mewtwo returning would be a bigger thing, but he's a veteran at heart, and we need more than Mega Man and Mewtwo to make this game's hype at least compare to Brawl's. In that sense, Ridley is very much worth the effort now, especially when Sakurai has said he intentionally don't want to make the roster too big (lul) in order to avoid imbalance. With this game, all stars really should align for Ridley, and if he isn't in, then he's never getting in. I don't think that designing the game on multiple platforms is a problem for him, because it's quite clear that they pretty much just port the data from the Wii U to the 3DS, and the outlines would help Ridley not look like a big purple cluster**** on a small screen.

To end this with, I want to make a comparison. While Ridley most definitely is a very hard character to design, Sakurai has already been responsible for a much more complex character: Pokémon Trainer. Pokémon Trainer didn't only face the problems that Ivysaur was the first character to not have any arms and Charizard is like designing Ridley-Beta version, but there's also balancing to take into consideration, a shared health poll, 3 unique movesets, not to mention likely the hardest of them all; How to properly load the data of each Pokémon in-battle. If Ridley has a truckload of design challenges, Pokémon Trainer was a castle of unexplored and incredibly tough design challenges. But yet, they managed to create such a incredible character as the Pokémon Trainer, and he was far from the most broken character in the game either, despite some balance problems there was nothing completely broken about him, that in itself is a huge accomplishment. That just goes to show that if Sakurai thinks a character is worth the time and effort, he will get that character in. If he thinks Ridley is worth the time and effort, then he will be in.
Click to expand...

Amen.
 
MasterOfKnees

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Dark Phazon said:
Sorry....ermmmm..i no its off topic but i need some true personal advice.

Im thinking of getting dream team bros right now.

Is it worth it is it good compared to the othee ones in the series?
I am a fan if the series and have played all.

Saga
Partners in time
Bowsers inside story.
Click to expand...
Haven't played it myself, but from what I've heard it's considered one of the best, if not the best in the series as of yet. Was thinking about getting either that or OoT3D when I'm getting a 3DS XL and Pokémon Y next month.
 
Dark Phazon

Dark Phazon

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Wariofan1 said:
Haven't played it myself, but from what I've heard it's considered one of the best, if not the best in the series as of yet. Was thinking about getting either that or OoT3D when I'm getting a 3DS XL and Pokémon Y next month.
Click to expand...
Hehehe funny you mention i just end up picking this up.

20130929_161630.jpg


We are truly Bruverz/Brothers...xD

Was gonna get either Dream team or DKCR with OOT also but i dont really like buying 2 games at once...never have really....i like playing 1 game at a time im that kinda person also ima pick up PKMN X or Y on release so yh :) Thanks man.

Might pick up dream team sometime.....
 
jaytalks

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Hero_42 said:
You're not understanding me.

I'm not claiming we've seen all the hazards of every stage. I'm saying we've seen even the first hazard on stages that have them by now.

And since we haven't seen a hazard on Pyrosphere, it seems likely, to me, that there isn't one, and that Ridley certainly isn't one.
Click to expand...
I get what you're saying. And I just disagree with it. Not enough data to prove that. I haven't seen definitively what the hazards are, if any for the Reset Bomb stage, and the Pikmin Stage. If you think there are no hazards on those stages, I guess you're argument works. But that is very small pattern.

My main point is that a month (or any number months for that matter) is arbitrary timeline to set for Sakurai. There really hasn't been that many stage hazards revealed in general (again scrolling doesn't for me count, since it isn't object. the spikes in NSMB2 do count though.) And the OoT thing would make it seem that Sakurai is only focused on the reveal within screenshots, which doesn't make much sense. We knew that stage existed since E3.

As long as we agree that's it your theory about Ridley, then I think we are good. Regardless, Anomilus makes a good point that makes a lot of sense.
 
LiteTheIronMan

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>throw an Assist Trophy

>it's Ridley

>throw a Poke Ball

>Ridley

>throw a crate

>Ridley

>barrel

>Ridley

>capsule

>explodes

>Ridley

>throw player off the edge

>player becomes Ridley when they hit the killbox
 
SmasherMaster

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Super Smash Ridley

All
  • Bosses
  • Playable Characters
  • Stage Hazards
  • Items
  • Background Characters
  • Trophies
ARE RIDLEY! (except for the Final Boss, that's Samus.)
 
Morbi

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I was reading some older comments. I just realized that Groose made a really good point. I can only imagine how messed up Ridley will look on the 3DS. They might not even bold outline the creature. I don't know, the more I try and rationalize the notion that Ridley is going to be in the game, the more I lower my expectations. Like a Jigglypuff contemplating which flowers to pluck.
:jigglypuffmelee:
 
TumblrFamous

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MorbidAltruism said:
I was reading some older comments. I just realized that Groose made a really good point. I can only imagine how messed up Ridley will look on the 3DS. They might not even bold outline the creature. I don't know, the more I try and rationalize the notion that Ridley is going to be in the game, the more I lower my expectations. Like a Jigglypuff contemplating which flowers to pluck.
:jigglypuffmelee:
Click to expand...
Wow, you really do include Jigglypuff in every post. But you're right. That's exactly my opinion.
 
Ridley_Prime

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The Charizard clone comments sometimes makes me think, since we already have enough firebreathers in a sense thanks to the world's most overrated Pokemon, maybe they should go with the Ice Ridley concept from Metroid Blast and give it a more serious/awesome and non-puppet design? Would make more sense for the form to be dominant blue I guess, than it does Neo Ridley from Metroid Fusion.

I KNOW THIS WOULD NEVER HAPPEN, JUST SPEAKING HYPOTHETICALLY!
 
MasterOfKnees

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OMG GUYS THERE'S SOMETHING PURPLE ON THE PYROSPHERE IN TODAY'S PICTURE.

Oh, nvm it's just a hit effect...
 
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