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Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

Nat Perry

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I read it before, I don't stand by it though.

I haven't yet had a situation in my life where I've suddenly encountered somebody I left on bad terms with, but I would guess the best way react be apologizing or trying redeem myself to them in some way, it's only sensible, right? Maybe? I'm not a firm believer in "time heals" in regards to severed relationships. You must choose to make amends, they won't make themselves, in my relationships, anyways.

And given the situation in the Bottle Ship, it was dangerous, and anything could happen, right? So that could have been her only chance, and it was. Seems like she was in conflict between was was right for herself, her relation to Adam, and the overall situation at hand. That's something I personally tend to struggle with, which is finding what's right for me, others, and the present.
 
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majora_787

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I'm just going to throw this out there. There is a difference between encountering someone who wants to kill you in a situation where they will probably be back again, and in a situation where you are 100% certain (and rightfully so) that they and everyone who would EVER want to intentionally bring them back are all dead. Those are two separate situations at work and merit different reactions.

I would imagine after Ridley came back in Metroid Prime, Samus probably was under the impression that he "could" come back at any time, and after Metroid Prime 3 on Norion, probably that he "would" be back at any time. But after the space pirates, Mother Brain, Ridley, Kraid, and just about everyone was annihilated with the explosion of Zebes, combined with passed time?

Of course you'll be less surprised by something when you're expecting it, but when you're not expecting it is literally the time you would be expected to be surprised.

Even Metroid Fusion could be pegged as a totally different situation in which Samus no doubt understands that she's not fighting Ridley at all, but the X parasites as always simply using his corpse as a puppet just as they are using her own suit.
 
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Nat Perry

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I'm just going to throw this out there. There is a difference between encountering someone who wants to kill you in a situation where they will probably be back again, and in a situation where you are 100% certain (and rightfully so) that they and everyone who would EVER want to intentionally bring them back are all dead. Those are two separate situations at work and merit different reactions.

I would imagine after Ridley came back in Metroid Prime, Samus probably was under the impression that he "could" come back at any time, and after Metroid Prime 3 on Norion, probably that he "would" be back at any time. But after the space pirates, Mother Brain, Ridley, Kraid, and just about everyone was annihilated with the explosion of Zebes, combined with passed time?

Of course you'll be less surprised by something when you're expecting it, but when you're not expecting it is literally the time you would be expected to be surprised.

Even Metroid Fusion could be pegged as a totally different situation in which Samus no doubt understands that she's not fighting Ridley at all, but the X parasites as always simply using his corpse as a puppet just as they are using her own suit.
Exactly. Samus torched Ridley in past but he always came back. Except when she last fought him prior to Other M's events, she completely obliterated him with zero expectancy of his return.

Also that point about Ridley-X is pretty spot-on.
 
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majora_787

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And needless to say we can't actually say if Metroid 1 / Zero Mission was Samus' first confrontation with Ridley in a combat situation, can we? I'm not 100% on that. So it's possible that by the time the series started she already thought "He's going to keep coming back and I'm going to have to be antsy to shoot him again" or something.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, my memory and understanding of time between events with Metroid is really sketchy. All I know is I think the Prime Trilogy happens over the course of a year? I might be wrong about that too.
 
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FirestormNeos

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But after the space pirates, Mother Brain, Ridley, Kraid, and just about everyone was annihilated with the explosion of Zebes, combined with passed time?
That would explain why Samus would be surprised, but she wasn't just surprised. She completely shut down, leaving herself absolutely vulnerable long enough for Ridley to grab her, and didn't come to her senses until after Ridley let her go because he was shot.

Edit: I don't know how to permanently change default color.
 
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majora_787

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That would explain why Samus would be surprised, but she wasn't just surprised. She completely shut down, leaving herself absolutely vulnerable long enough for Ridley to grab her, and didn't come to her senses until after Ridley let her go because he was shot.
Being caught off guard is a serious problem in a life or death situation, especially when you have a pre-established problem like this. It's entirely possible that her PTSD manifested in a different way in a different situation. And really even if she wanted to get out of it, her arm cannon was pinned, so it's not like she would have a whole lot she COULD do. Which is more than what Brawl's SSE could say, where she was grabbed but had her arm cannon free and available. But REGARDLESS of that was unable to get out of Ridley's grasp without outside assistance.
 
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FirestormNeos

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Being caught off guard is a serious problem in a life or death situation, especially when you have a pre-established problem like this. It's entirely possible that her PTSD manifested in a different way in a different situation. And really even if she wanted to get out of it, her arm cannon was pinned, so it's not like she would have a whole lot she COULD do. Which is more than what Brawl's SSE could say, where she was grabbed but had her arm cannon free and available.
I suppose that could work, but where's the evidence? Yes, this would justify the incident, but unless the game outright states it, then it's merely just the fanbase being better writers then the folks who worked on Other M.

Edit: I don't know how to permanently change default color.
 
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majora_787

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I suppose that could work, but where's the evidence? Yes, this would justify the incident, but unless the game outright states it, then it's merely just the fanbase being better writers then the folks who worked on Other M.

Edit: I don't know how to permanently change default color.
I don't know what to tell you other than not every single detail should have to be drawn out and elaborated on in EXTREME comprehensive elaboration as part of the game. Especially in a Metroid game, where for all intents and purposes plot does not matter.

Or rather, it matters less than the gameplay, the controls, the music, the aesthetics, the atmosphere, and just about everything else.
 
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Slushi Simcabi

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I currently am in belief of the the trophy theory.

Tiki- Support conversations with both Robin AND Lucina
Fi- The Yin to Gihrihimimim Ghirahim's Yang
Pseudo Palutena- Don't need to say much here
Ki Hunter- Consumed by Ridley to grow in Other M

I'm not even really a metroid fan, but I think his time has finally come.
 
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So corocoro apparently started today. . . but if ssb reddit is to e believed its 3ds only. So if they are giving info on wii u states (pyrosphere) i would be separate. . . jeez this corocoro business is confusing me. Wish i could read japanese
 

majora_787

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Was it or was it not confirmed that it was all confirmed characters and stages in both versions? I legitimately can't tell anymore.
 

Slushi Simcabi

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Was it or was it not confirmed that it was all confirmed characters and stages in both versions? I legitimately can't tell anymore.
Some stages are going to repeat across versions while characters will of course be the same for both.
The whole Wily castle thing kinda bummed me out, was hoping for more MM stages :(
 
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majora_787

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I thought it was said that it was a mistranslation and they were covering all revealed stages and characters.
 

Arcanir

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I don't know what to tell you other than not every single detail should have to be drawn out and elaborated on in EXTREME comprehensive elaboration as part of the game. Especially in a Metroid game, where for all intents and purposes plot does not matter.

Or rather, it matters less than the gameplay, the controls, the music, the aesthetics, the atmosphere, and just about everything else.
Except evidentially, Other M was definitely made to be more story driven. Directional decisions like more focus on the character, extremely linear gameplay and even a theatre mode shows that at least to some extent, the story mattered to who was making it. So if it's going to be presented to a great extent like that, it had to be done well, and looking at the reactions, something didn't go right.

Plus, that scene could've worked (or at least, gotten less backlash) with more elaboration. Remember that the scene doesn't tell us why she's freaking out, and unless you read an obscure manga from Japan that never got officially translated, you were totally clueless. It's not good story telling even by modern game standards if you have to rely on the audience to read the background material, particularly when beforehand, all of the previous games in the series she handled herself without any trouble.
 
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Maybe they give a very basic version with nothing unlocked or something so characters like our lord and savior ridley wouldn't be available unless they gave a lot of time. Or it's a mis_translation AGAIN in which case I give up and I will wait until everyone covers the eventual article so I don't have to think about it.
 

FirestormNeos

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I don't know what to tell you other than not every single detail should have to be drawn out and elaborated on in EXTREME comprehensive elaboration as part of the game. Especially in a Metroid game, where for all intents and purposes plot does not matter.

Or rather, it matters less than the gameplay, the controls, the music, the aesthetics, the atmosphere, and just about everything else.
yea, drawing out every single detail and explaining every plot element would be extremely dull, but this game has gone to the other extreme of not explaining enough. WHY doesn't Samus just listen to common sense and keep the Varia Suit on, knowing full-well that it wouldn't hurt anyone and Adam probably wouldn't notice because it isn't Missiles/Power Bombs/other lethal upgrades on Samus' person? WHY doesn't Samus just shoot the giant purple space dinosaur from hell when she has done so several times? WHY doesn't Adam just yell to Samus "HEY STUPID GET AWAY FROM THAT" instead of resorting to violence like he did? WHY doesn't Metroid just crawl? These aren't little details that don't need explanation, they are glaring plot points that demand context or explanation or SOMETHING or else the game is going to get panned and deserve it.

As for gameplay, well...
 

majora_787

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Except evidentially, Other M was definitely made to be more story driven. Directional decisions like more focus on the character, extremely linear gameplay and even a theatre mode shows that at least to some extent, the story mattered to who was making it. So if it's going to be presented to a great extent like that, it had to be done well, and looking at the reactions, something didn't go right.

Plus, that scene could've worked (or at least, gotten less backlash) with more elaboration. Remember that the scene doesn't tell us why she's freaking out, and unless you read an obscure manga from Japan that never got officially translated, you were totally clueless. It's not good story telling even by modern game standards if you have to rely on the audience to read the background material, particularly when beforehand, all of the previous games in the series she handled herself without any trouble.
Other M may have been made that way, but it is still a Metroid game. And Metroid games do not generally matter with story. So was it a bad idea for them to even MAKE a metroid game that focuses on story? Yeah. But that doesn't change what I said.

And really the fact that the manga, which is much of the actual "story-centred material" we have for Metroid, is such an obscure thing that is just about never actually brought up in the games pushes it forward too.

Other M was story-based when it shouldn't have been because in a series like this the story just doesn't matter. That's one of the three problems I have with the game. For the curious, the other two are the environment in which it takes place as well as the entire implementation of the first person... whatever you call it.
 
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ZeroJinKui

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what is this about corocoro?

it'd be nice if someone could get some information from someone at nintendo... people are supposed to be flawed, damn it... take advantage of those flaws!
 
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SchAlternate

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Other M may have been made that way, but it is still a Metroid game. And Metroid games do not generally matter with story. So was it a bad idea for them to even MAKE a metroid game that focuses on story? Yeah. But that doesn't change what I said.

And really the fact that the manga, which is much of the actual "story-centred material" we have for Metroid, is such an obscure thing that is just about never actually brought up in the games pushes it forward too.

Other M was story-based when it shouldn't have been because in a series like this the story just doesn't matter. That's one of the three problems I have with the game. For the curious, the other two are the environment in which it takes place as well as the entire implementation of the first person... whatever you call it.
The again, the game isn't even designed like a Metroid game, as it's really linear and actually discourages exploration (with the whole authorization mess). At least in Fusion, which is considerably linear compared to other games, you are allowed to explore and find hidden goodies along the way, unlike in Other M were the doors basically close behind you as you go.
 
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majora_787

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But you are allowed a level of exploration in Other M. Some doors may close behind you, but I had no problem going back and finding hidden things in the game. Unlike Fusion, which I had trouble even playing to begin with.

It's like this. Would you call Four Swords Adventures the best Zelda game because it focuses on Multiplayer and has the best Multiplayer? Probably not, because multiplayer isn't what matters in a Zelda game. Would you call Other M the worst Metroid game because it focuses on story and has one of the worst stories? Apparently YES, even though story literally does not matter in a Zelda game.

And if anything the analogy isn't too great simply because the STORY doesn't affect the way the game is actually played. If you took out the cutscenes, the game would literally be played the same. Four Swords Adventures if you take out the multiplayer is just a really awkwardly put together game.
 
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Arcanir

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Other M may have been made that way, but it is still a Metroid game. And Metroid games do not generally matter with story. So was it a bad idea for them to even MAKE a metroid game that focuses on story? Yeah. But that doesn't change what I said.
Whether or not the Metroid games are plot driven, that still doesn't change the point I was making. Other M was made to be story driven game, and because of that, whatever problems that directional decision brings up are going to be critiqued and criticized. It being a Metroid game doesn't really save it from that, particularly since said Metroid game is a deviation from the norm anyway.

And really the fact that the manga, which is much of the actual "story-centred material" we have for Metroid, is such an obscure thing that is just about never actually brought up in the games pushes it forward too.
It's actually brought up somewhat in both Fusion's ending scenes and Zero Mission's post-MB plot. Regardless, that's completely ignoring the point I was trying to make about that scene.

Other M was story-based when it shouldn't have been because in a series like this the story just doesn't matter. That's one of the three problems I have with the game.
Personally I don't think that a Metroid game having a story would be a problem, I think it could be done if they balanced it out with the traditional gameplay of the series and took care with the story. The major problem with Other M is that, along with not balancing it out and instead going in the other direction, the story it tries to tell wasn't as effective as it wanted to be, so its deviations from the norm didn't work for it.
 

ddd87

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I'm just going to throw this out there. There is a difference between encountering someone who wants to kill you in a situation where they will probably be back again, and in a situation where you are 100% certain (and rightfully so) that they and everyone who would EVER want to intentionally bring them back are all dead. Those are two separate situations at work and merit different reactions.

I would imagine after Ridley came back in Metroid Prime, Samus probably was under the impression that he "could" come back at any time, and after Metroid Prime 3 on Norion, probably that he "would" be back at any time. But after the space pirates, Mother Brain, Ridley, Kraid, and just about everyone was annihilated with the explosion of Zebes, combined with passed time?

Of course you'll be less surprised by something when you're expecting it, but when you're not expecting it is literally the time you would be expected to be surprised.

Even Metroid Fusion could be pegged as a totally different situation in which Samus no doubt understands that she's not fighting Ridley at all, but the X parasites as always simply using his corpse as a puppet just as they are using her own suit.
Samus encounters clones of every creature she encountered only on Zebes. She should have at least suspected that a bioweapon facility may have clones of more powerful beings.
 

majora_787

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Samus encounters clones of every creature she encountered only on Zebes. She should have at least suspected that a bioweapon facility may have clones of more powerful beings.
But that's the thing. Literally nobody cloned Ridley on purpose. It was a surprise to EVERYONE that he came back. Everything BUT Ridley was replicated entirely on purpose.
 

ddd87

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But that's the thing. Literally nobody cloned Ridley on purpose. It was a surprise to EVERYONE that he came back. Everything BUT Ridley was replicated entirely on purpose.
She learns that after the fact, she should have been prepared to face powerful enemies regardless of the scientists intentions which she doesnt know. Nothing tells her the scientist would stop at Sidehoppers and Reos.
 
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Ryenzi

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I created this Ridley Size Chart Comparison using ACTUAL IN-GAME PROPORTIONS with no tampering from Zero Mission and SSB4 pictures uploaded by Sakurai via Miiverse. Ridley is still fairly large, but not as large as detractors seem to think. The only way I see him becoming a playable character is if it is in fact deemed OK to have an almost Super Mushroom sized character playing in a normal fight, making him the largest character in game. This could prove advantageous, but also detrimental due to his large hit-box area.

 

BlueBubbee

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I'd like to point out there at least 3 conversations going on at the same time in this nearly 1300 page thread
That's how it gets here. We all go off on a whim to our own talks but eventually we all somehow regroup. You get used to it after awhile...

The again, the game isn't even designed like a Metroid game, as it's really linear and actually discourages exploration (with the whole authorization mess). At least in Fusion, which is considerably linear compared to other games, you are allowed to explore and find hidden goodies along the way.
My favorite part of Other M so far is using the OverBlast...


Also, I believe that exploration is required in Fusion to find the rooms to open the door locks. I'm currently playing through Fusion.
 
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BaganSmashBros

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Other M also forgot the MOST important parts of Samus` backstory/past - Chozo and Ridley & co. raiding her home world. That would explain A LOT more than what they did.
@ FirestormNeos FirestormNeos , i already realized that part of my post about story is wrong few posts later. I don`t know are those remixes or not, but they don`t sound like something i heard before in either Metroid Fusion, Metroid Prime, Zero Mission or Super Mertoid.
Linearity in Other M seems to be 2nd most hated thing. At least they didn`t forgot to add things like energy tanks.
Hm...would removing 1st-person mode and just making missiles work like in previous games be better for the game or not?
 
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