Important The Ridley for SSB4 Thread - End of an Era

[Johnknight1]

Probably a thing we could do. I imagined Ridley would be less like tail swipes and more of using his tail as a sort of spear and mostly in the air as his air-offense while he claws and shreds while on the ground in generally slower attacks.

I could imagine him doing a stab attack with his side tilt. That'd actually be cool if it had like a startup and power you could charge (like Wario's side tilt in Project M and I think vBrawl as well), as well as a move that could potentially stun like a lot of Zero Suit Samus' moves.

Also with the old Ridley threads I honestly do not remember being part of any meta-internal groups. I just remember it being an agry mess and that's why I just raised my eyebrows at it a lot and stayed away more than I do now. xD

I remember it being a slippery slope that kinda was like the Geno thread and then HOLY CRAP THINGS ARE AWFUL AND I NEED TO LEAVE NOW!!!!

EDIT: Riight, right. I forgot, getting new people here isn't the easiest thing since people didn't stop hating us in the last eight years.

Just because the same 200 people hate us doesn't mean that every new poster does. Also, on this video I made back in 2007 (it only got 150,000 viewers because all roster predictions sucked then; Shokio complained a lot how I had Sonic but no Waluigi, lol), a overwhelming majority of the comments I got about Ridley were very positive.

 

[AustarusIV]

Good question! We present ourselves in positive light, by providing examples of how cool Ridley could be. We do this by harnessing our passion for Ridley in Metroid, our love of Smash Bros., and our love of new playable characters, and combining it all into one big bundle of sheer fanaticism!!!

I mean, we have 1 moveset list on the OP, and yet 4 size comparisons=??? Why not have skillset posts linked there, playstyle stuff linked there, and even more movesets linked there=???

We should offer a ton of opinions in the OP and in this thread in regards to gameplay (Ridley's moveset, playstyle, skillset, and how they all come together and work together) and presentation (how Ridley is revealed, how he visually works, how he visibly functions, etc) that shows our diversity of our thoughts. Then, we should put much of the best stuff of that in the OP IMO.

I'm sure other people have great ideas as well on the matter, which is why I'm raising the point. I want to hear other ideas.

I mean, sure, we'll never turn the detractors who hate Ridley for some reason (see: psychological manifestations of hate), but that's beyond our control. We should focus what's in our control, and try to improve that first and foremost.

@Oasis_S doesn't seem to come here anymore, so I think there should be a new OP to this thread, one that's less condescending and more explicit in explaining why Ridley should be made playable. I agree with you on that.

 

[majora_787]

Shrug. It's really hard to gauge how the Ridley opinion is sometimes since it seems literally every place has people on a side of the issue. Probably why the aggressively negative side seems so prevalent.

EDIT: I support a new and more... I dunno. Up to date OP?

 

[Johnknight1]

Shrug. It's really hard to gauge how the Ridley opinion is sometimes since it seems literally every place has people on a side of the issue.

Dude at both the Best Buy Smashfests I went to freaking everyone wanted Ridley. The common jokes in line were:
1. If anyone asks what we're in line for, we say the bathroom.
2. If you leave the building after playing the game, you scream you played as either Ridley, Goku, Naruto, Darth Vader, or *insert some random character everyone knows but is still somewhat obscure*.
3. You say you played on Ridley as a stage.

Probably why the aggressively negative side seems so prevalent.

It's the internet; negative things are 10 times louder than positive things.

EDIT: I support a new and more... I dunno. Up to date OP?

You can co-sign me with this. I think we could even use a followup post after the OP so everything in the first post isn't so cluttered. Granted it would require a lot of work, but all worthwhile things do.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

I've brought up Meta Ridley being of an easier size to work with

He is harder to work with than with classic Ridley because of his wings and i know that personally because im animating him right now. His wings are a lot bigger than classic Ridley`s. At least his head looks better than Brawl Ridley`s. And eyes.

@Oasis_S doesn't seem to come here anymore, so I think there should be a new OP to this thread, one that's less condescending and more explicit in explaining why Ridley should be made playable. I agree with you on that.

What is OP?

 

[AustarusIV]

At the very least, we should remove the supporters list in the OP. I don't like the fact that it implies that anyone who doesn't support Ridley is an idiot, and it's partly one of the reasons why people in SmashBoards tend to give us crap.

From what I've heard, the old Ridley support threads had both a supporters list and a detractors list. Let's just excise the latter part and be done with it.

 

[Johnknight1]

You mentioned how you worked in the "Wind Waker Link" threads and how you made it a really active thread, well, so what? Why the hell should we care if you think we should be running around trying to promote Ridley as a cool character?

You should IMO try to sell Ridley because I think if you love the idea of a character so much, you should truly try to tell everyone about how much you love it. I love Smash and I'm not afraid to say it, and I'm not afraid to tell people how much I love to play the Smash games.

Who knows=??? If we tell some people about our ideas for Ridley for Smash 4 in a better put together manner, we will inevitably lead to more people liking the thought of Ridley being playable in Smash 4 from what I can tell.

I assume you are at least somewhat aware of the Toobigots and how adamant they can be, so why would we go waste our time trying to convert such adamant detractors when we can talk amongst ourselves about our hopes for Ridley and our thoughts about and relating to him, however miscellaneous they may be?

Of course there are always haters. Back in the "Wind Waker Link" threads I ran I was called a pedophile multiple times (which was technically impossible for me to be since I was a minor then), but regardless, I made no posts inferring or implying anything remotely sexual), I was called a pervert (for liking a toon character?), a "little kid", a "kiddie", and all other kinds of names.

I was above the hate, and honestly, I just ignored the insolent idiots (which is sad since a lot of them are beloved in the Smash 4 boards [not this thread in particular, though]). If they don't want to add any input worth having, they aren't worth listening to.

===

The whole point of these characters threads on a forum (specifically this forum that is so highly thought it is the most popular smash-centric forum) is to discuss such things. People who want a character and people who don't want a character. Proponents and opponents. Different ideas, mindsets, and views. All these should meet in this kind of forum and thread, and I strongly believe that.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

@Oasis_S doesn't seem to come here anymore, so I think there should be a new OP to this thread, one that's less condescending and more explicit in explaining why Ridley should be made playable. I agree with you on that.

In the unlikely circumstance Oasis steps down, I propose Wizardglory Angelglory the Purple be the new OP.

 

[Johnknight1]

What is OP?

Original Post, or the first post. It is alternatively also called "TS" in other boards.

At the very least, we should remove the supporters list in the OP. I don't like the fact that it implies that anyone who doesn't support Ridley is an idiot, and it's partly one of the reasons why people in SmashBoards tend to give us crap.

A lot of other threads do it. I don't see it as a problem.

From what I've heard, the old Ridley support threads had both a supporters list and a detractors list. Let's just excise the latter part and be done with it.

We could have a neutral/pro/anti/indifferent list of users, and present it in a neutral way. Maybe we could even list peoples' reasoning why they hold to that opinion or opinions. That would be pretty cool to see IMO.

 

[NintenRob]

So come back from the movies to discover that Ridleys shadow is the same size as Meta Ridley from Brawl.


The one that isn't playable



A boss.


The same size......

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

In case we needed more proof that Angelglory is a wizard, I measured his scale with the game that started it all.

And mine, though its a little big...

 

[AustarusIV]

So come back from the movies to discover that Ridleys shadow is the same size as Meta Ridley from Brawl.


The one that isn't playable



A boss.


The same size......

Not really. Meta Ridley in Brawl was still noticeably larger than Bowser, and had an extremely large wingspan to compensate for his size reduction after his first appearance.

The shadow in the Direct has been estimated to being around Bowser's and Rosalina's sizes.

 

[Johnknight1]

We've talked about Ridley's playstyle plenty, people have posted multiple movesets for classic Ridley, Meta Ridley, Other M Evolution Ridley, even a Ridley that evolves from classic into Meta into Omega throughout the battle.

Yes, but they mostly only cover generic playstyles and movesets. What about skillsets=??? What about moveset cohesiveness=??? What about specific styles of fighting with various moves in combination in one another=??? What about Ridley's neutral, off stage, in the air, on a platform, on a platform but below another platform, inbetween two platforms, in a grab chase, in a KO situation, in a potential combo opening situation, etc=???

There's so many different specific smash gameplay mechanics you could break it down into! It's so exciting just to think about that for any character!

I can't imagine why anyone would bother fantasizing about different playstyles for over a year for something that might not even happen, if all threads did this then they'd die at page 30.

Because you can make a lot of cool ideas, many of which the smash developers might read and even borrow. I have seen quite a few ideas that I saw generally posted only here on SWF that have been confirmed in Smash 4, including ideas for how a Skyloft stage would work, Link having his jump attack as his running attack, Donkey Kong getting his DKC roll, etc.

Plus, on top of that you can save those ideas for a future smash bros. games' speculation period, and apply many of them to different characters. Heck, while thinking of an idea for how Pichu would work I ironically found IMO a great way for how Plusle and Minun that worked in a way that hadn't previously been presented to me. You never know what you will discover unless you dare to discover things!!!

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Better pic of Angelglory's powers:

 

[Johnknight1]

So you want us to keep talking in endless circles over and over again?

No, I just want the quality to improve. Also, I'm not asking anyone to keep talking over and over again about anything. There's tons of things you haven't talked about.

With just one of Ridley's potential attacks, you can talk about hitbox properties, hitstun properties, sourspots, sweet spots, tippers, frame rate, pre-move charge up (lag), move duration, cooldown (after-lag), how much damage a move does (progressively and with stale moves negation), how charging a move impacts it, and how all these various degrees impact knockback, potential combos, and potentially lead to KO's or other events in a match.

This all is also a lot easier since we've finally actually have seen and played said 2 forthcoming games (well demos of said games at least), and collectively people have recorded thousands of minutes of gameplay of both games.

I'm not going to talk in endless circles just so we can stay "on topic". We're even talking in endless circles while staying off topic.

Currently it says you have 187 posts. I don't know, but given the post size of this post, I could make more posts of that which involve original gameplay content for Ridley than that many posts. I have undoubtedly already done that, lol.

I think if you tried what I just outlined in my above quote of yours, you'd find a lotttttt to say that winds up being pretty cool.

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Better pic of Angelglory's powers:
View attachment 17235

Such a good way to show off how a character that's "TOO BIG" can be scaled down to a favorable size. Love this.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

So come back from the movies to discover that Ridleys shadow is the same size as Meta Ridley from Brawl.


The one that isn't playable



A boss.


The same size......

Nonsense. We already confirmed that his size is close to Bowser`s/Rosalina`s.
Edit: pirate`d.

If we will talk about all of the attack properties including how many frames attacks have, then why not just make a PSA for Brawl or even Project M using this? Same things are required...i can dream, right?

 

[AustarusIV]

No, I just want the quality to improve. Also, I'm not asking anyone to keep talking over and over again about anything. There's tons of things you haven't talked about.

With just one of Ridley's potential attacks, you can talk about hitbox properties, hitstun properties, sourspots, sweet spots, tippers, frame rate, pre-move charge up (lag), move duration, cooldown (after-lag), how much damage a move does (progressively and with stale moves negation), how charging a move impacts it, and how all these various degrees impact knockback, potential combos, and potentially lead to KO's or other events in a match.

I get what you're saying. While this thread has been a lot of fun participating in, I would like to see some more talk of in-game representation for Ridley (like Event Matches, or how he would fare in Smash Run after getting buffs).

One of the first things we should do is revamp the OP.

 

[Johnknight1]

If we will talk about all of the attack properties including how many frames attacks have, then why not just make a PSA for Brawl or even Project M using this? Same things are required...i can dream, right?

Dude do you know how long that stuff takes=??? No way we'd make that. On top of that, I don't know programming for crap. The only Brawl mods I make are BRSTM songs/recordings.

To put in perspective, the Roy and Mewtwo PSA's/builds for Project M took roughly 2,000 hours each from what I hear. I bet the newcomers the Project M dev team/back room are making take up more than twice that amount of time.

Most PSA's are crappy and done in 20 hours, but eh, even that sounds like too big of a commitment.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Dude do you know how long that stuff takes=??? No way we'd make that. On top of that, I don't know programming for crap. The only Brawl mods I make are BRSTM songs/recordings.

To put in perspective, the Roy and Mewtwo PSA's/builds for Project M took roughly 2,000 hours each from what I hear. I bet the newcomers the Project M dev team/back room are making take up more than twice that amount of time.

Most PSA's are crappy and done in 20 hours, but eh, even that sounds like too big of a commitment.

took roughly 2,000 hours each

2,000 hours each

Seriously?! I didn`t knew that...then i can only dream about it and wait for Sm4sh to be released...

 

[NintenRob]

OMG Guis!! I found this totalie leget leek MUST C

RIDLE CONFIRMED

Spoiler

 

[IsmaR]

Seriously?! I didn`t knew that...then i can only dream about it and wait for Sm4sh to be released...

That's the thing. With all of this. Had this initiative took place from the start, it may have been feasible. However, with release literally 2 months and change away, remaking an entire thread for the purpose of passing said time and for forming/organizing "true" speculation neatly would be a both superfluously exhaustive and ultimately futile (which in truth, is the same truth for all speculation). Furthermore, neither I nor the other staff have been contacted nor have we authorized said movement, nor do I imagine anyone's even bothered to get @ Oasis_S say on the matter. Just because people are unhappy with how the thread is run doesn't mean the "need for change" is justified. I'm not saying a revamp wouldn't be nice (movesets, a real supporters list, the works), but it's not necessary. It's still possible for us to accomplish all John is going on about ("selling" the character, organizing the OP (the right way), even laying the groundwork for future Smash games), but I feel this can be done more humbly, starting by accepting that it is realistically far too late to make as big of a difference as we'd like (for now, not saying that remains true forever). And that there are more ways to be productive than discussing just gameplay/size arguments specifically (being a fan, posting artwork, arguing shadows/Sakurai logic/actually arguing with detractors isn't just "posting for the sake of posting").

I respect each and every poster here who takes the time to remind us not only why they support this character, but to just what extent they do/have, nay, will despite however bleak the outlook was (through every game Ridley wasn't playable, through every detractor, etc.). Comparing any single person, thread, or even fanbase is irrelevant in the face of such things. For that reason, I will not tolerate people insisting how this thread has lost its way, isn't as good as it used to/could be, "is terrible" in its current state, etc.. Respectfully, I think we get enough of the flak from detractors, fighting among ourselves seems redundant. I know I've told you this before, John, but if you don't like what you see, then either do something actually productive to help "better" the current iteration of the thread (not just criticize/say we should remake a thread with your specific new guidelines), or just don't come here/say anything negative at all. I was part of the terrible R.I.D.L.E.Y. "in-crowd" you so love to call out, so don't think you can just make whatever ignorant remarks you want AND still claim you are "above the hate" and "just ignored the insolent idiots." Frankly, it doesn't matter if your seniority, status as a "good poster" or whatever else you did in the past for whatever other character threads matter to you. That neither entitles you to judge the users/regulars of this thread (doesn't matter how much more posts you can make than all the newer ones) by repeatedly saying the "quality" of this thread sucks, nor does it mean you can lecture people about your history/advertise other character ideas here. Otherwise, I'd be glad to see you continue to post here with gameplay discussion ideas you, so long as they don't devolve once more to "my ideas aren't being discussed, nothing this thread says is worthwhile" mentality (or bashing Pit, whatever comes first). If enough of a movement gets going, I'll gladly reconsider changing the OP (provided Oasis consents, which I doubt would be the case).

 

[FlappyFalco]

I don't get it, how would changing the first one to post change the quality of the thread? And how is that even possible without a time machine or starting a new thread?

 

[Protom]

Better pic of Angelglory's powers:
View attachment 17235

Just had a thought. What if sakurai does a comparison similar to this is the reveal trailer, like he did with samus and little mac?

 

[Yoshi-Thomas]

I don't get it, how would changing the first one to post change the quality of the thread? And how is that even possible without a time machine or starting a new thread?

It's easy, just send Logan to the past and btw better ask him to threat Sakurai while he is at it.

Just had a thought. What if sakurai does a comparison similar to this is the reveal trailer, like he did with samus and little mac?

Well, we joke about Ridley's size, but not sure it's his main feature. Little Mac has "Little" in his name, it's one of his specificity, while being "big" is noth the main characteristic of Ridley. Well, he did it with Rosalina, so we never know !

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Last one, I swear.

 

[NintenRob]

Last one, I swear.

First time I saw that fight, I thought Ridley was shooting out scales.

 

[Shinru202]

Last one, I swear.

This location would make an awesome Metroid-themed stage for the 3DS Smash Bros: Ridley's Lair.

 

[domriver]

You know someone mentioned that Ridley's model can be where his wings are shortened when on the ground and not bein used. When his wings are used they can be bigger wouldn't that work? I honestly don't see a HUGE problem here at all. Ridley is a thin dragon. It just his wing span but eh. It could be done.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

You know someone mentioned that Ridley's model can be where his wings are shortened when on the ground and not bein used. When his wings are used they can be bigger wouldn't that work? I honestly don't see a HUGE problem here at all. Ridley is a thin dragon. It just his wing span but eh. It could be done.

The way I see it, Ridley's wings could be Palutena's Temple-sized and he could still be playable. You know, since it is a 2D battleground. The only time a problem would occur is when Ridley is turning around.

 

[ddd87]

I don't get it, how would changing the first one to post change the quality of the thread? And how is that even possible without a time machine or starting a new thread?

The OP never got regular updates with the findings, so newcomers to this place have to wade throught hundreeds of pages to find info that could have been covered in the first post. The OP is the most important post of a thread, improving it adds material for the replies to work with. It can't do anything for the previous thousand pages, but it would work for the next ones. And yeah, I forgot.... People want a new TC that can keep the OP updated, since the former one doesn't do it.

 

[BaganSmashBros]

You know someone mentioned that Ridley's model can be where his wings are shortened when on the ground and not bein used. When his wings are used they can be bigger wouldn't that work? I honestly don't see a HUGE problem here at all. Ridley is a thin dragon. It just his wing span but eh. It could be done.

His wings aren`t that big (especially on Brawl Model) and can be folded up to look smaller even in Meta Ridley`s case. If they will change size, it will look kinda weird. Charizard does something like that, but that is not the only part of his model that changes size.

 

[Deleted member]

He is harder to work with than with classic Ridley because of his wings and i know that personally because im animating him right now. His wings are a lot bigger than classic Ridley`s. At least his head looks better than Brawl Ridley`s. And eyes.

Why not just....edit the wings?
They're much smaller in Brawl than they are in Prime, so what harm is there in making them even smaller?

 

[BaganSmashBros]

Why not just....edit the wings?
They're much smaller in Brawl than they are in Prime, so what harm is there in making them even smaller?

Maybe shorter? If they will be smaller, they will look pretty thin...but i didn`t thought of making them shorter instead of smaller...hm...maybe even remove energy part of the wings while he is on the ground to make it easier for him to fold his wings. Then Meta Ridley will be easier to work with.

 

[NintenRob]

The OP never got regular updates with the findings, so newcomers to this place have to wade throught hundreeds of pages to find info that could have been covered in the first post. The OP is the most important post of a thread, improving it adds material for the replies to work with. It can't do anything for the previous thousand pages, but it would work for the next ones. And yeah, I forgot.... People want a new TC that can keep the OP updated, since the former one doesn't do it.

I thought mods could edit the OP?

@ IsmaR Do you want to do us a favour? Put the Shadow findings and the weird jump animation in Op?

 

[Deleted member]

View attachment 17231

-u- I guess my Catrín Ridley is done for tonight....

Your life has reached another evaluation checkpoint when you're called weird by a space dragon warlord in a tuxedo who exhibits an extreme fascination with shoes and pipe organs. Get on it, Soulless.

Pffffffffffffft. To quote Christian Bale:

Inb4 I get crucified by those thinking I am actually a psychopath, I don't actually dissect girls or living things, I might be insane though.

I've been a sociopathic slightly sadistic cynic for years now, so who knows?

Also:

@ Johnknight1 actually seems to have good ideas (IMO people, IMO...), now all I want to do is sit around talking about the really technical and in-depth parts of a Ridley moveset/Ridley's characteristics.

I also put forth my vote for @Angelglory to be the OP for this thread. I also think that maybe the Employee List that I made (yay shameless self-promoton) and the lounge sign that @AbioFlesh made should be added to the OP, as well as the movesets that others and myself have created for Ridley.

 

[Dalek_Kolt]

Here's a diagram I made in order to deal with the huge wing issue.

 

[Neo Zero]

A Mod can both edit an OP, as well as change who owns the thread easily enough. However, first you need the permission of the original thread owner (I imagine enough inactivity on the forums period would qualify), then a mod who overlooks the section (technically any mod can on the forum code SWF is run on, but it's bad taste to mod other sections that aren't your own) would make the simple switch to make a new user the thread owner. They can also rearrange posts and even create new posts using your account, but that's beside the point.

If you guys want to make a nice OP, the first thing would be to decide someone to run it, then discuss it with Oasis and get his permission, and then Ismar or another mod can then make the changes. I do imagine it's also frowned upon though for Ismar to say, edit the OP without Oasis' say so.

 

[Smashoperatingbuddy123]

Last one, I swear.

You know i do believe the smash bros ridley is taller than the first ever metroid ridley

Unless this ridley is same height of rosalina.

 

[Neo Zero]

You know i do believe the smash bros ridley is taller than the first ever metroid ridley

Unless this ridley is same height of rosalina.

Nah she's taller. After all, the Cosmos is under her dress, and Ridley is part of the Cosmos : D