The REAL differences between Pit and Dark Pit.

[UltraMan21]

Has Dark Pits arrows always killed if you get hit right by the blast zone? Because I killed an Ike player with those arrows. It wasn't a gimp, it as a KO by knockback alone. Then again, I had some rage...

 

[Wintropy]

Has Dark Pits arrows always killed if you get hit right by the blast zone? Because I killed an Ike player with those arrows. It wasn't a gimp, it as a KO by knockback alone. Then again, I had some rage...

Yes, Pit can do that too. The arrows have a very small amount of knockback, so at the every edge of the blastzone, it can nudge the opponent off-screen and get you the KO.

It's a tactic I employ a lot, especially to compensate for the Pits' nerfed f-throw, though it usually suffices as a gimp.

 

[UltraMan21]

Yes, Pit can do that too. The arrows have a very small amount of knockback, so at the every edge of the blastzone, it can nudge the opponent off-screen and get you the KO.

It's a tactic I employ a lot, especially to compensate for the Pits' nerfed f-throw, though it usually suffices as a gimp.

Wait, pit got nerfed? Just pit or both?

 

[Wintropy]

Wait, pit got nerfed? Just pit or both?

F-throw was nerfed for both Pits. It used to be a powerful killing move, now it's...slightly less powerful. Still useful, but it takes longer to get to KO percents now. It remains a valuable setup for edgeguards.

D-air spike is slightly easier to connect to compensate. There aren't any discernible differences otherwise.

 

[UltraMan21]

F-throw was nerfed for both Pits. It used to be a powerful killing move, now it's...slightly less powerful. Still useful, but it takes longer to get to KO percents now. It remains a valuable setup for edgeguards.

D-air spike is slightly easier to connect to compensate. There aren't any discernible differences otherwise.

When did they get nerfed? I checked the notes for the recent patch it says no change

 

[Wintropy]

When did they get nerfed? I checked the notes for the recent patch it says no change

The most recent patch.

 

[UltraMan21]

The most recent patch.

Weird, nothing says dark pit and pit got nerfed.

 

[Wintropy]

Weird, nothing says dark pit and pit got nerfed.

They definitely were. Unless I happen to have absurdly terrible luck killing with f-throw in the timeframe coincident to the patch being released and nobody else has experience this mechanical anomaly, they were very noticeably nerfed.

 

[UltraMan21]

It says that they got

They definitely were. Unless I happen to have absurdly terrible luck killing with f-throw in the timeframe coincident to the patch being released and nobody else has experience this mechanical anomaly, they were very noticeably nerfed.

well, it depends where you are on the field. You have to be right at the edge of the stage and that's when it should kill. That's how it always has been. Pit and dark pit never got nerfed. Unless this had to do with DI in the patch before this one, nothing changed, it still kills at the same percentage. Right by the ledge of course

 

[Wintropy]

well, it depends where you are on the field. You have to be right at the edge of the stage and that's when it should kill. That's how it always has been. Pit and dark pit never got nerfed. Unless this had to do with DI in the patch before this one, nothing changed, it still kills at the same percentage. Right by the ledge of course

I don't think that's true at all. I've played Pit for as long as the game has been out, and prior to the most recent patch, f-throw would kill at the ledge at about 100% at the most. It now kills, at the very least, at 120%. That is a sizable difference from what it used to be pre-patch. There is definitely a change there.

That said, if you have definitive prove that there is no change, I'm willing to hear it out. Actual footage to support your claim would be appreciated, if that's alright with you?

EDIT: Just tested it. Pit's f-throw, fresh and with 100% rage, standing at the very edge of Final Destination, did not kill Olimar until 140%. It did not kill Mewtwo on Arena Ferox, under the same conditions, until the same damage, i.e. 140%. Dark Pit had the exact same results. They measure up evenly.

 

[Tito Maas]

I didn't notice an FThrow Nerf, but I wasn't able to kill Ganon at 160% on the edge with it (without rage) yesterday. Think it's just a one time incident, though.

The Electro and Upperdash Arms got buffed, though. Doesn't seem like anyone else in here noticed.

 

[UltraMan21]

Weird. That's why I have been struggling to kill with those two lately...I don't know why they would get nerfed and why no one on smash boards ever say anything about this. Admittedly I haven't been able to kill well with those two pre patch either, using there forward throw.

Yeah it's weird. Has Mario always reached to the highest platform on battlefield with a grounded up b?

I tested on the 3ds. No rage, killed falcon at 150-160% with no Di. Need to be right by the ledge. And I was on FD.

EDIT: I tried to do it with ganon, but it won't work for me. Ganon can't recover

 

[Wintropy]

Don't triple-post. Use the edit function in future.

Just a heads-up. Thanks for the input, it's good to know.

 

[UltraMan21]

Don't triple-post. Use the edit function in future.

Just a heads-up. Thanks for the input, it's good to know.

Thanks. I'm just use to not editing...

About the arrows, do you know if dark pits or pits kill earlier? Because both seems like it needs rage to kill by knockback alone

EDIT: I can confirm that Dark Pits arrows still kill near the blast zone with no rage. Pit's arrows seem to take a lot longer then Dark pits, since his arrows couldn't kill around 150-160%, with rage. Dark pits kill around 140%

 

[Wintropy]

Again, don't double-post.

As far as I know, Pittoo's have stronger knockback, though I'm not certain about that. I know they're faster than Pit's and I'm pretty sure they do more damage, they probably do a little bit more knockback as well.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Looking at the KB values, I don't think fthrow was changed

 

[ZephyrZ]

I know I certainly haven't felt any difference.

I spend more time practicing on the 3DS then Wii U version because of transportability and such, and....I've always killed right at the edge at around 140%, both pre-patch and post-patch.

 

[Tito Maas]

I never feel like there's a difference until I can't kill at 160% from the edge without rage

 

[Madwario]

Nintendo should try making them more different. Dark Pits up b should spike and damage for example.

Also reflect should be onesided but also stun.

Some of his neutrals should be working differently.

Hoping for a patch that makes him a worthy slot in the roster rather than a space that could have been a space for a dlc instead.

This is like the cloniest clone of them all. Like creating a "Shiny Pikachu" putting him on a roster and the only difference being that the attacks are sparkling more and that Thunderjolt is not affected by gravity.

 

[ZephyrZ]

Hoping for a patch that makes him a worthy slot in the roster rather than a space that could have been a space for a dlc instead.

That's not really how characters "spaces" work. Dark Pit isn't replacing anyone.

Ironically, if they did more to change him up, then you could argue that he's more of a waste then if they keep him as much of a clone as he is. Though I would still like to see a few more changes, of course.

 

[UltraMan21]

Nintendo should try making them more different. Dark Pits up b should spike and damage for example.

Also reflect should be onesided but also stun.

Some of his neutrals should be working differently.

Hoping for a patch that makes him a worthy slot in the roster rather than a space that could have been a space for a dlc instead.

This is like the cloniest clone of them all. Like creating a "Shiny Pikachu" putting him on a roster and the only difference being that the attacks are sparkling more and that Thunderjolt is not affected by gravity.

Up b should have been the striking flight, and down b should have been impact orbitars.
And they could have expanded the horizontal and vertical idea. It was only implement for there side b and somewhat neutral b, but it could have worked for there down throw, tilt, and smash, there dash, d-air(sourspot(?)) and there n-air

 

[ZephyrZ]

Up b should have been the striking flight, and down b should have been impact orbitars.

Impact Orbitars would of been great, but I question if Stricking Flight could be considered much of an improvement.

 

[kyoskue]

Impact Orbitars would of been great, but I question if Stricking Flight could be considered much of an improvement.

It doesn't need to be an improvement to better differentiate the two from each other.
I also feel that if Dark Pit and Lucina's current default specials were swapped with one of their current customs (but still kept them both) that there wouldn't be even close to as much clone talk about them, even though the differences would be kind of superficial.

 

[Tito Maas]

Honestly, all of Dark Pit's customs seem like downgrades to me, except the Guiding Arrow

 

[dav3yb]

I've started picking up pit and dark pit to play with recently. At first, like when the game was still quite new, I felt that pit had better tilts, and dark put had better smash attacks, it would at least fit the character a bit, being edgy and angry hitting his smash attacks harder.

I haven't read through the entire thread, but how do customs for each change their playstyle? I can't say I've seen just a whole lot of pits or dark pits at tournaments.

 

[LancerStaff]

Hey guys, while I was MIA the past few weeks I did some more testing. Actually, it was specifically about their Fthrows. I can safely say they haven't been changed like @ Wintropy has been saying while I've brought it up, just to be clear.

Anyway, as you can probably guess since I'm talking about it in the differences topic, I put the whole "1% difference in KO potential" thing under the microscope.

It doesn't exist in SSBU at all. No angle difference whatsoever. Both KO in exactly the same way no matter what I try, and I tried just about everything. Naturally I started with Mario, but then I tried combinations of different locations and characters (namely Bowser and Jigglypuff), and I even put on equipment to increase and decrease their attack with the above combinations. (Before anybody asks, yes, I did set the CPU to "control.")

So this means the difference is just an error and will likely be removed in a future patch. If we could look at the KB values in both versions then we could determine what will probably happen, but my bet is that DP's Fthrow is just a tick ahead in SSB3D and will be nerfed. I understand making games is hard and all, but you'd think Namco would understand how to use copy/paste properly...

When my schedule clears up a bit more, I'm going to borrow my buddy's SSB3D to test my previous discoveries concerning the differences between their customs. While I'm on that subject, I recall testing Striking Flight's attack power with both characters last time on SSBU, and Dark Pit's was indeed stronger like on 3DS. So he has that at least.

 

[Wintropy]

Hey guys, while I was MIA the past few weeks I did some more testing. Actually, it was specifically about their Fthrows. I can safely say they haven't been changed like @ Wintropy has been saying while I've brought it up, just to be clear.

Anyway, as you can probably guess since I'm talking about it in the differences topic, I put the whole "1% difference in KO potential" thing under the microscope.

It doesn't exist in SSBU at all. No angle difference whatsoever. Both KO in exactly the same way no matter what I try, and I tried just about everything. Naturally I started with Mario, but then I tried combinations of different locations and characters (namely Bowser and Jigglypuff), and I even put on equipment to increase and decrease their attack with the above combinations. (Before anybody asks, yes, I did set the CPU to "control.")

So this means the difference is just an error and will likely be removed in a future patch. If we could look at the KB values in both versions then we could determine what will probably happen, but my bet is that DP's Fthrow is just a tick ahead in SSB3D and will be nerfed. I understand making games is hard and all, but you'd think Namco would understand how to use copy/paste properly...

When my schedule clears up a bit more, I'm going to borrow my buddy's SSB3D to test my previous discoveries concerning the differences between their customs. While I'm on that subject, I recall testing Striking Flight's attack power with both characters last time on SSBU, and Dark Pit's was indeed stronger like on 3DS. So he has that at least.

Okay then, thanks for clearing that up!

Must be a very weird placebo effect.

 

[ZephyrZ]

I'm praying to Palutena that the KB difference on F-tilt was just an oversight that they will fix in the future, but with each balancing patch to come out, the less and less it looks like it is one.

 

[LancerStaff]

Okay then, thanks for clearing that up!

Must be a very weird placebo effect.

Heh, even Nario fell for the placebo last time. As the self-appointed scientist of all things angel, I have to keep a pretty pessimistic mind when it comes to this patch business.

As far as these two go, assume something hasn't been changed until you see some hardcore testing, since there hasn't been a single change to either. Even the obvious animation error on DP's pummel.

I'm praying to Palutena that the KB difference on F-tilt was just an oversight that they will fix in the future, but with each balancing patch to come out, the less and less it looks like it is one.

Man, I wish. Although the biggest thing it has over Pit's is "jab lock" combos. Was it Chompy who came up with that idea? If I'm thinking of the right thing, you could sour Ftilt to sour Ftilt to just about anything if the first causes a knockdown.

 

[kyoskue]

Man, I wish. Although the biggest thing it has over Pit's is "jab lock" combos. Was it Chompy who came up with that idea? If I'm thinking of the right thing, you could sour Ftilt to sour Ftilt to just about anything if the first causes a knockdown.

Actually I want them to keep that and instead alter Pit's DTilt or something so that it has a similarly unique property that only he can take advantage of.

 

[UltraMan21]

Impact Orbitars would of been great, but I question if Stricking Flight could be considered much of an improvement.

All they need to improve on with the up is the control. I think everyone here can agree that the striking flight has terrible controls, and is even worse than the normal up b when it come to grabbing the ledge
Oops read it wrong. I wouldn't consider it a improvement, but it doesn't have to

 

[Madwario]

Ironically, if they did more to change him up, then you could argue that he's more of a waste then if they keep him as much of a clone as he is. Though I would still like to see a few more changes, of course.

I would actually be fine and not argue anymore. Im perfectly fine with Dr Mario, thats where i want a clone to be.

I dont whine about Lucina, main reason is that its a female, lol. Dark Pit is like a palette swap. Its like taking Fire Mario outfit out of Mario, put a white shirt on every palette swap and make fireball go straight instead of bouncing.

I would be perfectly fine with a baby Mario doing that however:D

 

[StarBlue]

I do think Dark Pit's smash attacks launch further than Pit's, I'm not sure if you wrote that in your guide, as Dark Pit can kill at around 80% oddly enough with his fsmash, whereas Pit needs around 100% or so.

 

[LancerStaff]

I do think Dark Pit's smash attacks launch further than Pit's, I'm not sure if you wrote that in your guide, as Dark Pit can kill at around 80% oddly enough with his fsmash, whereas Pit needs around 100% or so.

To be blunt, that's not true. So long as the variables are the same, (DI, Rage, staleness, opponent character, stage and position, level of charge, and even the opponent's current action) they will KO at the same %.

 

[StarBlue]

To be blunt, that's not true. So long as the variables are the same, (DI, Rage, staleness, opponent character, stage and position, level of charge, and even the opponent's current action) they will KO at the same %.

Oh, well, my bad for the false information then, might've just been pure coincidence.

 

[Red Pittoo ~ Rekt]

F-throw was nerfed for both Pits. It used to be a powerful killing move, now it's...slightly less powerful. Still useful, but it takes longer to get to KO percents now. It remains a valuable setup for edgeguards.

D-air spike is slightly easier to connect to compensate. There aren't any discernible differences otherwise.

They haven't been changed since release

 

[Wintropy]

They haven't been changed since release

Yes, m'darling, that's been established for over a month now. ;3

 

[Red Pittoo ~ Rekt]

XD I know but the recent patch just happened and I was just saying. I didn't read the full thing till I posted that. I'm sorry friend

 

[The24thGanondorf]

Found something new (to me, at least):
During Dark Pit's side taunt,; after he's done spinning the blades, just as he slashes to cross them and says "Watch out!" (in the US version) he becomes invincible for a split second just like when you perform a spot dodge.
Not exactly game changing, but pretty cool nonetheless.

As far as I know, was found out by a GameFaqs user called DracoXIV.

I guess I don't have to worry about getting hit while using his side taunt if I time it right. That's cool to know!

 

[Tito Maas]

I prefer Dark Pit in customs.

The Electroarm is automatically much better in customs due to the Guiding Bow. You'll be knocking people off stage more than regular Pit, which puts those Guiding Bows to great use for gimping and controlling landings, which can lead to early kills.

Pit can't knock opponents to the side without the Uppercut Arm (I think)--y'no, the one that's supposed to be really fast but has so much start-up lag that it's not even faster than the original? Yeah, that one. But it sucks, so it's not worth equipping.

Think it's an awesome advantage and gives Dark Pit more options than regular Pit.