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The REAL differences between Pit and Dark Pit.

Who cares?

  • I do!

    Votes: 335 83.1%
  • I don't!

    Votes: 68 16.9%

  • Total voters
    403

LancerStaff

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There's also a fixed-camera mode in training, and custom stages on the Wii U.

And the Pac-dots run up and down nearly the entire screen, just makes sure to count the ones off to the side. On fixed-camera, one dot lines up perfectly with the platform, and there's another between that and the start of the line.
 

Johnny Heart Gold

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I highly doubt ANY characters receive anything this drastic; at least all at once, its probably just going to have a few very minor changes overall, I bet that 95% of the cast don't receive any changes at all with this update.
The only changes that I know for sure are getting rid of lagless Turnips its that ilk, and making Luma's respawn take another 5 seconds (13 instead of 8).
How do you know about the turnips and the Luma?
 

UltraMan21

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I've noticed that Dark Pit electroshock arm had more super armor then pits upperdash arm. Or it could be that dark pit has a better chance hitting someone when using super armor because I missed a lot when pit used super armor. Plus, I believe that dark pit side b is start up lag and after lag goes by faster then pits side b.
 

LancerStaff

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I've noticed that Dark Pit electroshock arm had more super armor then pits upperdash arm. Or it could be that dark pit has a better chance hitting someone when using super armor because I missed a lot when pit used super armor. Plus, I believe that dark pit side b is start up lag and after lag goes by faster then pits side b.
Well, it might, but the SA on either is kinda sketchy. It gives out when the attack starts or something... Basically, some multihit attacks will get through some times.
 

UltraMan21

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Well, it might, but the SA on either is kinda sketchy. It gives out when the attack starts or something... Basically, some multihit attacks will get through some times.
Well little Mac's multi hit gets through. I've been hit by it before. A lot. And does dark pits side b super armor smash attacks? Because I found out that pits side b doesn't super armor smash attacks
 

ZephyrZ

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So I had observed that Dark Pit's Electroshock Arm sent some projectiles, like Samus's Super Missile, in an angle. I tested out Upperdash to see if it would send them strait up and....it didn't. It seemed mostly the same as Electroshock. Disappointing. I thought I had discovered a new difference there, even if it was an extremely unimportant one, but it seems I didn't.
And does dark pits side b super armor smash attacks?
I think I may of eaten a Smash attack or two with Dark Pit, but I'm not entirely certain. It always may depend on what character is using the Smash Attack.
 

LancerStaff

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Well little Mac's multi hit gets through. I've been hit by it before. A lot. And does dark pits side b super armor smash attacks? Because I found out that pits side b doesn't super armor smash attacks
...Others can always get through.

And Pit's can take smash attacks just as well as DP's.
 

kyoskue

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In all honesty its probably Heavy Armor, and NOT Superarmor.
They're nearly the same, but Superarmor will continue through ANY amount of damage, while Heavy Armor attacks will cancel if the user sustains too much damage.

It'll be a lot easier to test this stuff and the getup attacks too once the WiiU version is out because then we'll be able to easily control multiple characters at once.
 

Lavani

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At 999% I can sideB into four stacked Smart Bomb explosions or a pile of four Bob-ombs and not go flying with both Pits, looks like identical super armor to me. Seems to last through the dash, as well as the uppercut's active frames if he does get a punch in.
 

Madwario

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Pretty much they are the same only Pit is better at killing and has the better projectile? What was the point in adding him? At least the melee clones had huge differences. Dissapointed that Sakurai didn't give him any major noticeable differences like the Melee clones did.
I hope this crap doesnt continue otherwise we might have Fire Mario and crap like that.
 

SullyJay

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I feel like I'm the only one who is glad he is in the game, If he was just an Alt for Pit I don't think I would be using him.

Who do guys thing is the biggest clone out of Lucina, Dark Pit, and Doc?
 

warionumbah2

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Doesn't matter which is worse tbh, they all equally blow but whatever.

Dark Pit is like Lucina worse than their originals, Dark Pits arrows are slower and predictable and cannot be used for pressuring off stage unlike Pit who can control his arrows.

And his side B is less effective than Pits, Dark Pits Side B is mainly effective if you use it when the opponent is near the ledge but Pit can use it on any-side of the stage since the victim goes straight up this is great against light weights.

Although he isn't as bad as Lucina in terms of being worse than the original the differences are there and i can see players switching to Pit who not only plays the same as DP but also better in certain aspects. Only clone that is actually better than the original custom or not is Dr Mario.
 
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LancerStaff

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Dr. Mario is widely considered to be worse then Mario...

Dark Pit had the least amount of effort put into him, undeniably, but he's probably the most useful with his Electroshock in certain matchups. (Mac, Ike, LUMA.)

Dr. Mario has a ton of unique attributes... But they really don't amount to anything. The real killer is his slow speed ruining his comboing and pressuring ability. Like I said, he doesn't really offer anything over Mario, not even unique matchups advantages like DP does.

Lucina is supposed to be an easier to use Marth. The problem is that 1. Marth already sucks in this game and 2. You'll deal more damage/KB overall with Marth even if you're horrible with him since the "tipper" is more then half the end of the blade now. I mean, you KNOW it's bad when her fans would of preferred her to be a costume instead of a separate slot.
 

Folt

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Dr. Mario is widely considered to be worse then Mario...

Dark Pit had the least amount of effort put into him, undeniably, but he's probably the most useful with his Electroshock in certain matchups. (Mac, Ike, LUMA.)

Dr. Mario has a ton of unique attributes... But they really don't amount to anything. The real killer is his slow speed ruining his comboing and pressuring ability. Like I said, he doesn't really offer anything over Mario, not even unique matchups advantages like DP does.

Lucina is supposed to be an easier to use Marth. The problem is that 1. Marth already sucks in this game and 2. You'll deal more damage/KB overall with Marth even if you're horrible with him since the "tipper" is more then half the end of the blade now. I mean, you KNOW it's bad when her fans would of preferred her to be a costume instead of a separate slot.
While Dr. Mario is worse than Mario (no questions there), his properties does allow him a unique playstyle from his parent: His pills, while being worse for approaching opponents, is good for forcing people to approach you instead, the tornado (like Luigi Cyclone) can outprioritize certain things like Sonic's Spin Dash and is pretty mobile, he has unquestionably more general power on his moves (%, knockback) than his parent, and his Up B is good for attacking, and he can do simple combos (though Mario has better comboability). His flaws in comparison is his poor mobility and recovery, and Mario undeniably gimps better than him. Of all the clone pairs, I think Dr. Mario got the rawest deal in terms of setting himself apart from the original, and picking between the two will likely be up to how you play.

Dark Pit being mostly unchanged from Pit, while it makes him worse, mostly works in his favor: Electroshock is preferred in certain matchups, and while his arrows are worse than Pit's, I don't see how they are bad as a projectile. Of all the clone pairs, Dark Pit will likely be the closest to the original, tier-wise, and he gives the best deal in terms of who you prefer appearance-wise in a clone pair since he's so similiar to Pit while still having a couple of his own quirks.

Lucina probably got the worst deal out of all the clone characters: Her most defining trait works against her in terms of getting advantages over her counterpart, Marth's tipped and untipped attack hitstun properties make him not as punishable if the opponent shields his attacks unlike Lucina who has to be more careful, and she doesn't really have a niché outside of being easier to use (at least in the beginning).
 

warionumbah2

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Dr. Mario is widely considered to be worse then Mario...
Their reasoning is mainly linked to slow movement and his default moveset having bad recovery, he's like L Mac in that regard but i've got good reasons why Doc is better but its obvious Doc is vastly better with customs available.

Dark Pit had the least amount of effort put into him, undeniably, but he's probably the most useful with his Electroshock in certain matchups. (Mac, Ike, LUMA.)
In the competitive scene you barely see Mac or Ike so that won't matter also by hitting Luma he leaves himself open. Pink Fresh is a perfect example of Pit being overall better than Dark Pit his arrow pressure is great off stage and the Side special is rarely used at high level play as you'll more times than not get punished.
Dr. Mario has a ton of unique attributes... But they really don't amount to anything. The real killer is his slow speed ruining his comboing and pressuring ability. Like I said, he doesn't really offer anything over Mario, not even unique matchups advantages like DP does.
Dr Mario dishes out more damage in less hits, Mario's hits are pathetically low Down throw to utilt on Mario is 10% while Down throw to uair for Doc is 13-14% and this set up is guaranteed even at high percents. Dr Mario is a defensive character so he plays differently all together so combo's and pressuring are out of the equation. Doc has unique advantages as he's able to kill off characters faster and his down special out prioritizing moves such as Spin Dash and Charizards Up special. Doc has much more to offer unlike the others he's actually played completely differently to his original, he's defence whike Mario is offence unlike DP who is a cheap knock off version of Pit.

Lucina is supposed to be an easier to use Marth. The problem is that 1. Marth already sucks in this game and 2. You'll deal more damage/KB overall with Marth even if you're horrible with him since the "tipper" is more then half the end of the blade now. I mean, you KNOW it's bad when her fans would of preferred her to be a costume instead of a separate slot.
Marth doesn't suck, just because he's been nerfed from Brawl doesn't mean he sucks Mario is nerfed badly and yet he's competitively viable.
 
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LancerStaff

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Their reasoning is mainly linked to slow movement and his default moveset having bad recovery, he's like L Mac in that regard but i've got good reasons why Doc is better but its obvious Doc is vastly better with customs available.


In the competitive scene you barely see Mac or Ike so that won't matter also by hitting Luma he leaves himself open. Pink Fresh is a perfect example of Pit being overall better than Dark Pit his arrow pressure is great off stage and the Side special is rarely used at high level play as you'll more times than not get punished.

Dr Mario dishes out more damage in less hits, Mario's hits are pathetically low Down throw to utilt on Mario is 10% while Down throw to uair for Doc is 13-14% and this set up is guaranteed even at high percents. Dr Mario is a defensive character so he plays differently all together so combo's and pressuring are out of the equation. Doc has unique advantages as he's able to kill off characters faster and his down special out prioritizing moves such as Spin Dash and Charizards Up special. Doc has much more to offer unlike the others he's actually played completely differently to his original, he's defence whike Mario is offence unlike DP who is a cheap knock off version of Pit.


Marth doesn't suck, just because he's been nerfed from Brawl doesn't mean he sucks Mario is nerfed badly and yet he's competitively viable.
Mac and Ike are just the obvious examples, and the Pit vs Rosalina matchup is relatively unexplored. Other characters Electroshock gimping I've found is effective against are Ness, Bowser, ROB, and Link, although the last two you might be better off with Pit's arrows. Dark Pit's Electroshock Arm will be seen as more and more useful ove time as we learn how to punish recoveries with it.

Dr. Mario has more differences, yes, but he's a different entity entirely. Dark Pit is directly connected to Pit in gameplay. Two sides of the same coin, yaknow? He creates a unique gameplay mechanic the way he is.

Marth... I don't know, general opinion I've seen of him is pretty negative. Doesn't help that he's typically compared to Pit nowadays.
 

Folt

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While Marth may not be the powerhouse he was in the other two games, he is still a very solid character, and one I'd wager will be around the mid tiers.
 

UltraMan21

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I feel like I'm the only one who is glad he is in the game, If he was just an Alt for Pit I don't think I would be using him.

Who do guys thing is the biggest clone out of Lucina, Dark Pit, and Doc?
I main dark pit so you're not the only one. Of course the biggest clone out of all of them is lucina, since the only difference is that she has to tip and her power is balanced.
 
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Hey guys, I'm here to point out another difference between Pit and Dark Pit.
As many of you know, Pit has a stronger F-tilt in terms of knockback, however...after testing this out with a friend- I can confirm that Dark Pit's F-tilt is a few frames faster in execution then Pit's.
 
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LancerStaff

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Hey guys, I'm here to point out another difference between Pit and Dark Pit.
As many of you know, Pit has a stronger F-tilt in terms of knockback, however...after testing this out with a friend- I can confirm that Dark Pit's F-tilt is a few frames faster in execution then Pit's.
Well, that would make sense. How did you test this? The only surefire way is to hook up a wavebird controller to multiple ports. I did this and tested a bunch of moves, but I was in a rush and didn't have a ton of time to be absolutely sure.
 
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Well, that would make sense. How did you test this? The only surefire way is to hook up a wavebird controller to multiple ports. I did this and tested a bunch of moves, but I was in a rush and didn't have a ton of time to be absolutely sure.
Me and a friend performed F-tilt clash wars with Pit and Dark Pit and Dark Pit would always win them.
My friend stated that it would eventually come to the point where Dark Pit would hit Pit as soon as he was starting up his F-tilt.
 
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kyoskue

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Me and a friend performed F-tilt clash wars with Pit and Dark Pit and Dark Pit would always win them.
My friend stated that it would eventually come to the point where Dark Pit would hit Pit as soon as he was starting up his F-tilt.
Interesting, I'll test this at 1/4 speed in training mode in a moment.

Edit:
After 30 regular speed, 20 1/2 speed, and 10 1/4 speed clashes I have to report the following:
Naop,
They're EXACTLY the same.
I did the mode where you hold L to make time pass and buffered their fTilts while it was paused.

Shame, I was really hoping for this to be true. :x

Double Edit:
After more testing I have found a sweetspot where both Pits fully connect with their fTilts, and Dark Pit is ALWAYS in hitstun longer than Pit is as well, so there's another knock against him. :/
*sigh*
 
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Spirst

 
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Interesting, I'll test this at 1/4 speed in training mode in a moment.
I just tried with a spare controller I had laying around. Didn't see any speed difference and the attacks clashed.

Also tried with tilt-sticking/clocks in a real game. Still nothing.

Edit: Yeah, it's the same.
 
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Awww gee...my friend must of not been keeping up in button presses. Sorry for the trouble guys, and thanks for the extended research on the matter.
 

kyoskue

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Awww gee...my friend must of not been keeping up in button presses. Sorry for the trouble guys, and thanks for the extended research on the matter.
Its no trouble at all.
We're a community, no single person here has the time to learn LITERALLY everything that the game has to offer on their own, so it good for people to bring up discrepancies, even if they're mistaken from time to time.
At the very least now we know for sure, right? ;)
 

kyoskue

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I main dark pit so you're not the only one. Of course the biggest clone out of all of them is lucina, since the only difference is that she has to tip and her power is balanced.
Forgot to reply to this one:

In THEORY that one change would be more than enough to differentiate them, but with how it turned out this game that isn't the case.

Think about it this way:
If Lucina's average damage were a tad higher and Marth's sweetspot a tad smaller then Lucina would be able to play a better rush down game due to not having to space as much. She could be a lot more creative with unexpected attacks up close or farther away, where as Marth would benefit from a much more methodical playstyle.
As it is, I think that this is what they were going for, but they kind've dropped the ball.
 

LancerStaff

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Forgot to reply to this one:

In THEORY that one change would be more than enough to differentiate them, but with how it turned out this game that isn't the case.

Think about it this way:
If Lucina's average damage were a tad higher and Marth's sweetspot a tad smaller then Lucina would be able to play a better rush down game due to not having to space as much. She could be a lot more creative with unexpected attacks up close or farther away, where as Marth would benefit from a much more methodical playstyle.
As it is, I think that this is what they were going for, but they kind've dropped the ball.
I think they intentionally made her weaker then Marth so they wouldn't accidentally end up with something OP. Actually, I'm starting to think that's what happened to all the clones, hence DP's rather unbalanced Ftilt and arrows and Dr.Mario in general.
 

LancerStaff

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So, anybody hear of perfect pivoting? Basically a wavedash lite. I bring it up here because, according to the tutorial video I saw, Dark Pit's goes farther.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vaR4RM-qr0

Pit's goes roughly four Windy Hill Zone blocks (explained in video) while Dark Pit's goes roughly half a block further, again, according to the video. Anybody care to test?
 

kyoskue

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So, anybody hear of perfect pivoting? Basically a wavedash lite. I bring it up here because, according to the tutorial video I saw, Dark Pit's goes farther.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6vaR4RM-qr0

Pit's goes roughly four Windy Hill Zone blocks (explained in video) while Dark Pit's goes roughly half a block further, again, according to the video. Anybody care to test?
There's no real reason to test THAT specifically, just check the distance of their initial dashes against each other, a longer initial dash translates to more momentum and thus a longer perfect pivot.
In either case, I'll check in a few minutes.
 

kyoskue

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Well, from my own tests between the two I can only conclude that "My Smash Corner" made a mistake, they appear to have completely identical perfect pivots.
See, the initial dash is of variable length depending on how long you hold the stick down before letting it up, and the same thing happens when performing perfect pivots.

I was able to get both Pit and Dark Pit to perfect pivot on 1, 2, 3, and even 3.5 blocks by altering both the timing of the flick and how long I held the original direction.
I even slowed time down to 1/4 and buffered inputs with the L pause function to make doubly sure that I was correct.

My guess is that the video's creator made a few minor errors here and there due either to not knowing about the variable length and/or trying to get through all of the characters too quickly.
In eitther case, he did a very good job, and MSC's videos are very well done.
 

LancerStaff

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I figured as such, but I wanted to be sure.

This pivot stuff is really interesting though. Doing a pivot Ftilt stops the forward movement on it completely, but what'll happen with their Dtilt that moves them forward then back? I'll see for myself when I get some time.
 

kyoskue

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I figured as such, but I wanted to be sure.

This pivot stuff is really interesting though. Doing a pivot Ftilt stops the forward movement on it completely, but what'll happen with their Dtilt that moves them forward then back? I'll see for myself when I get some time.
I'll test it in a moment.
Any other requests for me to check?
 
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