The Probable Character Roster 3.0 ^_^

[Qbuilderz]

but nintendo probably won't want to pay, plus just as many people DON"T want geno, i am fine eithwer way, great is he's in, whatever if he's not, but odds aren't in his favor.

 

[xianfeng]

Luigi

-Lately shown clone aspects

I'm willing to argue the exact opposite, Luigi's Mansion anyone?

Jigglypuff

-The poke has lost his old popularity and may be replaced with a more recent hip poke

No she hasn't. She still remains the second most popular pokemon.
In 2006, Viz released a series of ten DVDs based around individual Pokémon in celebration of Pokémon's 10th anniversary in the United States. Jigglypuff was released as volume 2, with Pikachu being the first volume. The Pokémon featured were determined by an online poll; after Pikachu, Jigglypuff was the most popular and was therefore released second.

-PT has shown that Sakurai may be aiming more at the games for inspiration, where jiggly got her popularity from the anime

Jiggs got her role in the anime because people liked her in the games.

-Doesn't have an important role in the videogames

Neither does Pikachu (not in the main games anyway)

Ridley

-Some view him as awkward

Unless Sakurai views him as awkward this hardly constitutes as a weakness.

Mewtwo

-He was bottem tier in brawl which brought an anti Mewtwo movement umongst a few smash fans

I don't think that Sakurai really gives a rat's *** about some silly tier lists.

-He has awkward, floaty movement which make him difficult to balance with other characters.

He was still in Melee correct?


Another plus for Marth is that he is starring in another game on the DS, a remake of his first game.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Luigi

I'm willing to argue the exact opposite, Luigi's Mansion anyone?

Jigglypuff

No she hasn't. She still remains the second most popular pokemon.
In 2006, Viz released a series of ten DVDs based around individual Pokémon in celebration of Pokémon's 10th anniversary in the United States. Jigglypuff was released as volume 2, with Pikachu being the first volume. The Pokémon featured were determined by an online poll; after Pikachu, Jigglypuff was the most popular and was therefore released second.


Jiggs got her role in the anime because people liked her in the games.


Neither does Pikachu (not in the main games anyway)

Ridley

Unless Sakurai views him as awkward this hardly constitutes as a weakness.

Mewtwo

I don't think that Sakurai really gives a rat's *** about some silly tier lists.


He was still in Melee correct?


Another plus for Marth is that he is starring in another game on the DS, a remake of his first game.

You have to understand weaknesses aren't the final role against the character. Some of these weaknesses are down right weak but so are the strengths. However they are still there and while it may seem improbable for Sakurai to say "Ridley is too awkward to fit in this game," it happened in melee. I will never say a weakness will take a character out (otherwise they wouldn't be on this list would they) I must say there is a weakness that some people consider big.

So in the end it's either you saying the disadvantages are stupid or someone else saying I'm stupid for not having the disadvantages there.

 

[xianfeng]

I'm not saying your stupid just some of the reasons are, like Jigglypuff is just as popular now as she has always been, I feel that she deserves to be placed much higher but it's your list so I'm not going to tell you what to do.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

I'm not saying your stupid just some of the reasons are, like Jigglypuff is just as popular now as she has always been, I feel that she deserves to be placed much higher but it's your list so I'm not going to tell you what to do.

I agree with you, you have to know that some of the character advanteages/disadvantages and even placements don't always directly relate with my personaly likes and opinions but the contribute of the community in this thread. So I agree with you but I can't just get rid of the these because soon someone will be asking me to put it back and so on. Don't look to much into the pros and cons of the character but the actual placement of the character on the list. Now if I have something really stupid like Jigglypuff is pink as a con then I understand. Still I'll look into the Jigglypuff case.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Sakurai's list is not the final authority in these matters.

-Sakurai said himself that he would add some characters not on the list. Stafy is a franchise growing vastly in Japan. He has his own marketing campaign and even has his own comics in Japan.

-SSB has already proven to be a great game for marketi ng reasons.

-Stafy is a reoccuring character who's life started out on the GBA and has crossed over to the DS.

-He has great moveset potential and can (if designed right) be a very unique aquatic character (remember swimming is now in smash)

-Stafy is a character with alot of personality.

-Remember that the characters on the polls don't represent every Smash fans view. Only the elite and dedicated players placed their opinions on the polls. (it is unlike a casual gamer to do such a thing)

Conclusion

Stafy isn't that unlikely when you consider the other two Japanese only chaaracters have been in only one game each and have been lost in time. I ask people do you think Takamaru or Sukapon, who have only been in one game in one country, really outprioritize the other characters?

Dude now the rest of this is old jumble arguments that you've already made.

What? what do these three characters have the slightest thing to do with each other. Sakurai doesn't dislike Ness, he just prefers Lucas over Ness so this means he would put Lucas in before Ness.......which he has. The same thing with Falco and Wolf (exept in this case Krystal and Fox outprioritize him). The more you argue for Wolf's case the more I think of his disadvantages.....I'm starting to think he doesn't even belong in number 40 spot.

You're kidding right? The only real F-Zero Character that even had a chance to be on this poll was Ghoro. If any F-Zero Character ends up playable it will be Pico or Dr. Stewart because they were in the first the F-Zero. But I laugh at that happening. I see Dr. Shadow as a Boss and nothing more.

First off it's ok that you took wolf off (I'll argue his slot in later <_<....) D: Anyhow To start off with wasn't sukapon mass requested by sakurai after email's ? He started the fighting games for nintendo and whatnot altogether , as to the poll's hello Sakurai is making it more this time around he's not FORCED to do any marketing <_< , He and his "Studio" Have more control this time around and not nintendo since they begged to put him in ? He would just be for commercialism Most likely , And FYI Sakurai likes takamaru and has shown interest into sukapon (His third fav game of all time ? .) And they are supported for brawl unlike stafy , I get that you have some "WTF" characters and you might credit them over others. , A lot of personality and uniqueness ? Heck epona and a tetris block can be given a unique moveset but that doesen't put them closer Anyhow to an extent on that might i mention personality ? I said the same with wolf yet you refused...Where is all this "Support" For stafy comming from when sakurai isn't interested in marketing , Isn't interested in stafy , And his fan's don't want him...I'm not saying don't take him off of the list But seriously your giving him a BIT to much credit and you SHOULD look that over.

As to the ness lucas wolf falco arguement i'm Not going to support anyone here but Sakurai has a lot more interest in lucas over ness than you think and you think falco and ness can make it back the easy way due to fanbases ? ORLY Especially with ness , Still you have claus above ness and that's what really matters <_< , Still sakurai has never shown any interest with falco and i don't see it anywhere but i'll leave that there for now.

Goroh your kidding me ? Sakurai at least mentioned black shadow twice while he didn't even bother to mention the other's , The other's where meant for there cruel AT placement while black shadow has some support , I think it's crazy how you put one F-zero rep on there And then put FOUR FE REPS FOR THE LOVE OF......So at least consider one even if it is in slot 50 because another F-zero rep is more "Honorable" Then giving FE 4 reps and forgetting wolf behind .

As opposed to Wolf i'll go argue his slot later since i can guess your tired (And must be annoyed.) He deserves it a LOT more then some of the other characters you put on there (Bowser jr ? Sakurai has more interest into turning secondary villians into bosses like vaati or kraid shown with petey etc...You think he's really going to give us another villian ? And midna ? Overpopulation need i remind you...(Still at least SHE has more support then bowser jr <_<.) And i don't really see much of it anywhere when yet you have BK on there who HAS no support (At least he'll be taken off soon most likely <_<.) As to poll's they affect it a LOT more than you think...Still your doing a very good job at This altogether Keep it up :Supports: Besides i'm supporting by adding critisism to this thread! .

Oh i still see that you have the color's on there for the top 28 but it doesen't matter , Besides most on there have a good chance anyways.
And FYI Pokemon trainer DID rank high on the poll's and IC's were the number 1 requested to return and Weren't they like one of sakurai's favorites or something like that ? + They where unique so i don't really see how You didn't expect ic's or PT (Well PT yes maybe...) But ok with that .
"It convinced you to do the opposite" ...

 

[nobletoast]

Sakurai's list is not the final authority in these matters.

-Sakurai said himself that he would add some characters not on the list. Stafy is a franchise growing vastly in Japan. He has his own marketing campaign and even has his own comics in Japan

-SSB has already proven to be a great game for marketi ng reasons.

-Stafy is a reoccuring character who's life started out on the GBA and has crossed over to the DS.

-He has great moveset potential and can (if designed right) be a very unique aquatic character (remember swimming is now in smash)

-Stafy is a character with alot of personality.

-Remember that the characters on the polls don't represent every Smash fans view. Only the elite and dedicated players placed their opinions on the polls. (it is unlike a casual gamer to do such a thing)

1. I do not disagree with this its a given fact. But like I said why should a handheld only franchise thats growing in just Japan get higher priority than characters representing multi platform franchises growing in America, Europe and Japan ie - The 'Wars' series, Custom Robo, Chibi Robo.

2. Well if your comparing Starfy to Fire Emblem. Fire Emblem did well in the west because there is a big following for that animeesque, swordfighting RPG style Fire Emblem has. Theres a reason why Starfy's franchise hasnt made it outside of Japan because his style would not lead to big sucess unless it had the great gameplay to back it up (like the Kirby and Pokemon games). I myself couldnt comment since ive never played the game but I can only asume it was medicore at best (JUST AN ASUMPTION PLEASE DONT MISTAKE THAT LAST SENTENCE FOR IGNORANCE, ITS MORE ALONG THE LINES OF CYNACISM).

3. Crossing over to the Gamecube from the handhelds might make this a good reason but Handheld to newer Handheld doesnt. Starfy making to the DS from the Game Boy Advance means very little next to Custom Robo's many console appearances. Chibi Robo has also appeared on DS And Gamecube and yet Starfy is that high.

4. Your clutching at straws with the 'unique at swimming' argument and im sure you realise that Sakurai and co wouldnt consider this as much of a reason before adding characters. They probably had all the characters planned out before swimming was implemented into the game. Ive been to the Starfy thread and the moveset I saw was not particularly interesting. Maybe others would disagree but I found only his downB in there to show any originality. And YES I DO REALISE that Sakurai and co could make a better moveset but its hardly great potential if the people of these boards cant make a particularly interesting moveset.

5. Thats an opinion and not an argument and on the front page of this thread under Lucario you claim to be about facts and not your personal opinion. Its clear you like this character and thats what stopping you from putting the character in its deserved place. 48-50. If the characters personality was a major factor then why would we be seeing Pokemon Trainer?

Personaly I think the guy has a chance and its not like I hate the thing or anything but youve again let your bias get in the way and im sure the character.

Also why did Andy go straight in at number 46? Surely a bit lower.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

@Nobletoast i agree 100% With you , Stafy needs to at least be moved down (I also think another F-zero rep should be put on the roster , This is unfair D:.) And the overattention you give JR (Bowser JR .)
When he only was on sakurai's poll's and a joke ? Not much going for him with geno and paper around + Might i mention sakurai is likely to put the "Secondary" Badies into a AT or Boss placement ? To me i think he should be lowered by around 10% Or at least be 60% ? :/.

 

[nobletoast]

@Nobletoast i agree 100% With you , Stafy needs to at least be moved down (I also think another F-zero rep should be put on the roster , This is unfair D:.) And the overattention you give JR (Bowser JR .)
When he only was on sakurai's poll's and a joke ? Not much going for him with geno and paper around + Might i mention sakurai is likely to put the "Secondary" Badies into a AT or Boss placement ? To me i think he should be lowered by around 10% Or at least be 60% ? :/.

Im gald you agree with Strfy but I dont think F-Zero should get another representative.

For starters its a racing game and its lucky it got a character in the first place. And the Captain's moveset was adampted from scratch. If F-Zero were to put in anoter character they'd have to have some moveset potential and the only one really is Samurai Goroh whose deconfirmation in my opinion deconfirmed every character.

Black Shadow? - Generic in every sense. The name, the personality, the costume and to boot he has NO moveset potential and isnt even that important to the series.
Deathborne? - Im hoping for boss in the SE but he is relativly new and again wouldnt get in over Goroh.
Pico? Dr. Stewart? - Why would Sakurai give these characters a Playable Character spot over Goroh.

 

[MookieRah]

Homelessvagrant, the guidelines you are somehow going by contradict themselves and pretty much guarantees that you can't really predict the outcome, so trying to make things come off as fact is out the window due to the overwhelming vagueness of your guidelines. The guidelines you set would produce results that are not reliable (getting the same result each time) nor are they valid (extent at which it classifies what it is trying to classify). I'm not a big fan of extremely opinionated arguments presented under the guise of factual information.

Now with that out of the way there are a few things I'd like to address:

What is with this arbitrary percentage system? You are just throwing numbers out for these characters. They have absolutely no factual basis seeing how you just tossed those values on based upon what you "think" they should be. Unless the percentage comes from some kind of statistic or a strict testing process, then don't bother putting that in.

How in the world does Krystal sit atop 7 returning characters and Ridley atop of 6? It's not very logical. Yes, some characters won't return, Sakurai said that himself, but it is overwhelmingly more likely for a character to return than it is for a new character to be added. It also goes without saying that due to Falco's immense popularity, the fact that he was in melee, and the fact that he is far more significant than Krystal makes him a more logical choice and thusly should not be on top.

Why is Ness so low? Seriously, your reasoning is in shambles here. Starmen.net was the only place that came out and said he wasn't going to be in, and that Lucas was to be his replacement. There has been no statements by Sakurai or any official source that there is truth to any of these claims. The fact that he mentions Ness in a Lucas update even further puts the Starmen prediction in doubt. Also, how has Sakurai shown more love for Mother 3? I mean there were 2 Mother stages in Melee with only ONE character representing the franchise. So far Mother 3 has one character and 1 stage? This is definitely not factual.

I could say more about problems with other characters that are presented as probably (like how Isaac is owned by Camelot and etc).

 

[Biggie Smalls]

Paper Mario

Geno

Phoenix Wright.

Don't stray away from those third part characters.



No Wolf makes me want to repeatedly punch a baby.

Black Knight red makes me want to Falcon Punch a baby.

MookieRah's post should have much merit, seeing that I agree with it as a whole.
Why Would Ness be so low?
All 64 characters are Boot-Ins, much more than Shoe-ins.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Im gald you agree with Strfy but I dont think F-Zero should get another representative.

For starters its a racing game and its lucky it got a character in the first place. And the Captain's moveset was adampted from scratch. If F-Zero were to put in anoter character they'd have to have some moveset potential and the only one really is Samurai Goroh whose deconfirmation in my opinion deconfirmed every character.

Black Shadow? - Generic in every sense. The name, the personality, the costume and to boot he has NO moveset potential and isnt even that important to the series.
Deathborne? - Im hoping for boss in the SE but he is relativly new and again wouldnt get in over Goroh.
Pico? Dr. Stewart? - Why would Sakurai give these characters a Playable Character spot over Goroh.

A Racing game ? When does this matter , They did a "Unique" Moveset for it and Might i mention that they have had the same games as mother all released on an international market ? I'm not to sure much about F-zero but i think homeless should consider adding Another F-Zero represenitve , I rmemeber something about 3 Of f-zero's games selling a million altogether ? Not to much for nintendo but they can still scrap up a moveset easily , As to goroh with takamaru around why would sakurai put in two katana wielders ? All this and more is questionable , As to stafy I WANT HIM LOWERED , BEcause i don't get any of this , And might i mention commercialism does less this time around ?

Homelessvagrant, the guidelines you are somehow going by contradict themselves and pretty much guarantees that you can't really predict the outcome, so trying to make things come off as fact is out the window due to the overwhelming vagueness of your guidelines. The guidelines you set would produce results that are not reliable (getting the same result each time) nor are they valid (extent at which it classifies what it is trying to classify). I'm not a big fan of extremely opinionated arguments presented under the guise of factual information.

Now with that out of the way there are a few things I'd like to address:

What is with this arbitrary percentage system? You are just throwing numbers out for these characters. They have absolutely no factual basis seeing how you just tossed those values on based upon what you "think" they should be. Unless the percentage comes from some kind of statistic or a strict testing process, then don't bother putting that in.

How in the world does Krystal sit atop 7 returning characters and Ridley atop of 6? It's not very logical. Yes, some characters won't return, Sakurai said that himself, but it is overwhelmingly more likely for a character to return than it is for a new character to be added. It also goes without saying that due to Falco's immense popularity, the fact that he was in melee, and the fact that he is far more significant than Krystal makes him a more logical choice and thusly should not be on top.

Why is Ness so low? Seriously, your reasoning is in shambles here. Starmen.net was the only place that came out and said he wasn't going to be in, and that Lucas was to be his replacement. There has been no statements by Sakurai or any official source that there is truth to any of these claims. The fact that he mentions Ness in a Lucas update even further puts the Starmen prediction in doubt. Also, how has Sakurai shown more love for Mother 3? I mean there were 2 Mother stages in Melee with only ONE character representing the franchise. So far Mother 3 has one character and 1 stage? This is definitely not factual.

I could say more about problems with other characters that are presented as probably (like how Isaac is owned by Camelot and etc).

Actually i can explain.....First off krystal has been mentioned multiple times (And so has ridley.) And did extremeley well on the poll's , Ness is so low because sakurai has inspirational bond for mother 3 (Let's remember that he wanted to put in lucas instead of ness in melee.) And sakurai + Poll results show much interest into Claus as a PC , As to the percentages basically it is a 100 or 0 Factor but we aren't sakurai so we don't now that (Might i mention that these are really just rouhg guesses ? I ran a probable character roster myself and i'll probably rewrite it again on nsider2 today.) But i'm sure homeless can answer this one better <_<.

No Wolf makes me want to repeatedly punch a baby.

That post = Epic win , Seriously i tryed raising his chances to the 60%'s But homeless wouldn't listen to me and just got so angry that he took wolf off .

 

[Firekid2]

but nintendo probably won't want to pay, plus just as many people DON"T want geno, i am fine eithwer way, great is he's in, whatever if he's not, but odds aren't in his favor.

They've already had him re-appear before. If they were willing to pay for a VERY small cameo, they'd willing to pay for Smash

 

[Qbuilderz]

he has a cameo in brawl?

 

[PsychoIncarnate]

he has a cameo in brawl?

He has a cameo in Mario & Luigi Super Saga

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Oh and homeless sorry for bothering on this thread so much D: , You still have most of the rankings right through.

 

[nobletoast]

A Racing game ? When does this matter , They did a "Unique" Moveset for it and Might i mention that they have had the same games as mother all released on an international market ? I'm not to sure much about F-zero but i think homeless should consider adding Another F-Zero represenitve , I rmemeber something about 3 Of f-zero's games selling a million altogether ? Not to much for nintendo but they can still scrap up a moveset easily , As to goroh with takamaru around why would sakurai put in two katana wielders ? All this and more is questionable , As to stafy I WANT HIM LOWERED , BEcause i don't get any of this ,

It matters because none of the characters have moveset potential and at-least to me seeing Captain Falcon as playable in 64 was true WTF moment.

Amd I highly doubt Takamaru getting priority over Samurai Goroh although from what ive heard from Takamaru fans about his possible moveset I think id prefer him.

Im not so against a second rep for F-Zero but more against Black Shadow being playable.

 

[Ondo]

Black Shadow? - Generic in every sense. The name, the personality, the costume and to boot he has NO moveset potential and isnt even that important to the series.

I think Black Shadow has a fairly obvious moveset. Give him Ganondorf's Melee moveset, since he sure shouldn't use it anymore. Depending on their attitude towards clones it might need some changes, but regardless it'd probably be easier and faster than a wholly original moveset, and it'd still be quite fun.

 

[TheMastermind]

Put Megaman where he should be. According to the evidence that we have.
There will be 3 characters that are considered 3rd party characters.

The evidence also states that Geno IS a 3rd party character. There is no inbetween
There has NEVER EVER EVER been a 2nd and a half party character.

So put Megaman off the 3rd party list just like Sonic and snake are because hes 98% confirmed.
This is with the current evidence that we have.

Leave Bomberman, Packman AND geno in the 3rd partly possibles. Nintendo would surly choose
Bomberman and Packman over Geno if they have to pay for the character. Its a no-brainer, because
those characters would bring in alot more people to play the game.

BUT put Megaman where he should be, with the other 90% confirmed characters.
No one will argue of Mega mans inclusion. Just do it!!!

And really think about it, Miis??????!!!!!!!!!!!!?????!!!! WTF are you smokeing????
Waluigi has a better chance than Miis.
Put Wolf and Black Knight higher on the list, this is not a list about your opinions, this is a list about evidence. ALL of the pros who went said that fox DIDNOT, DIDNOT have a wolf costume.
It was a rumer started by noobs who went to the convention.
And Black knight was importat to the fire emblim story.
Marth/Ike is to Black knight what Mario is to Bowser, of course black knight will be there.

PUT Miis onto the wtf character list and take off waluigi.

 

[sHy)(gUy]

i dont think isaac should be that high up isnt he third party???

WWlink should be lower, mewtwo should be lower, capt Olimar should be a little higher

 

[WindSquirrel]

i dont think isaac should be that high up isnt he third party???

WWlink should be lower, mewtwo should be lower, capt Olimar should be a little higher

Camelot is second party, though all Golden Sun characters and music are owned by Nintendo.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Homelessvagrant, the guidelines you are somehow going by contradict themselves and pretty much guarantees that you can't really predict the outcome, so trying to make things come off as fact is out the window due to the overwhelming vagueness of your guidelines. The guidelines you set would produce results that are not reliable (getting the same result each time) nor are they valid (extent at which it classifies what it is trying to classify). I'm not a big fan of extremely opinionated arguments presented under the guise of factual information.

Now with that out of the way there are a few things I'd like to address:

What is with this arbitrary percentage system? You are just throwing numbers out for these characters. They have absolutely no factual basis seeing how you just tossed those values on based upon what you "think" they should be. Unless the percentage comes from some kind of statistic or a strict testing process, then don't bother putting that in.

wow you followed me MookieRah? Grr, oh well you are fun to debate with.

I feel you should probably read more of the post of this thread before you make such statements. I agree things are opinionated (how can I get for sure fact when Sakurai hasn't actually said they'll be in the game or not). However unlike what you probably think this is a community thread, so most of these "facts" are things people have told me to post. Also with the placements themselves, the percentages once did have more of a purpose. That kind of got lost over time as I've moved characters around. I did have some kind of formula to consider the probabality but you'll probably think that's stupid funny. Rest assured I only used it to get an idea of things before everything got moved around. If the percentages are a bore then just ignore them (after all with Sakurai it's either 100% confirmed or 100% deconfirmed , if only we had the answers)

How in the world does Krystal sit atop 7 returning characters and Ridley atop of 6? It's not very logical. Yes, some characters won't return, Sakurai said that himself, but it is overwhelmingly more likely for a character to return than it is for a new character to be added. It also goes without saying that due to Falco's immense popularity, the fact that he was in melee, and the fact that he is far more significant than Krystal makes him a more logical choice and thusly should not be on top.

anyways lets get to the rest of the post which may I add is opinion in itself. You say that newcomers shouldn't come before veterans but I have two statements for that

1)There are only 2 newcomers that intermix with veterans. Both of these are shoe-ins

2) How do you know that newcomers won't come before veterans? The fact is you don't know and neither do I or the rest of smash boards. So this argument to based soley on your opinion. Even Wiseguy believed this at start and while I don't believe it, you can't ignore some people do.

3)Further more you fail to realize the community aspect of this thread. It doesn't matter what I think as long as enough smash boarders come here complaining about it. So don't put this up with me but all the smash boarders who believe Ridley and Krystal are 100% going in while others tell me Marth can't be in because.... or G & W this... or Jigglypuff that. Still I will move some of the veterans up some.

Why is Ness so low? Seriously, your reasoning is in shambles here. Starmen.net was the only place that came out and said he wasn't going to be in, and that Lucas was to be his replacement. There has been no statements by Sakurai or any official source that there is truth to any of these claims. The fact that he mentions Ness in a Lucas update even further puts the Starmen prediction in doubt. Also, how has Sakurai shown more love for Mother 3? I mean there were 2 Mother stages in Melee with only ONE character representing the franchise. So far Mother 3 has one character and 1 stage? This is definitely not factual.

This goes back to number 3 of the last post. I believe Ness is going to be personally but for the sake of this thread I argue against your post. Only Starmen.net deconfirmed him.....do you know of any big name site/magazine/ etc. that has done otherwise (you know confirm him). Have you been to starmen.net? Those guys are Mother/Earthbound freaks (they even got Lucas pics that can't be found elsewhere. Why would they make a statement like this.

However if we ignore this we can even see that Sakurai has been bent to Mother 3 (in that he has a stage, a character, and the frannklin badge has the label Mother on it instead of the American version placing an earthbound logo on it) and even then Sakurai stated that if Lucas had come out earlier the Sakurai would have got rid of him in Melee. What's the logic for him being in?The fact Ness was in Lucas's update means nothing as in Mother 3 Ness is supposed to be a legend. So in essesnce it could mean is can Lucas be strong enough to take Ness's hero role (or in other words replace him). You know Ashley's name was in a music update, according to your logic she must be a Playable character. Furthermore the original 12 theory is a theory that was made up in Smash boards saying that Sakurai couldn't get rid ofthe original 12 because it was tradition for them to be in. That's rubbish! How can their be a smash tradition when there hasn't even been more then 2 games released as of yet. There isn't even a pattern in the games (because you need more then two games to start a pattern). The question is, why isn't he lower.

I could say more about problems with other characters that are presented as probably (like how Isaac is owned by Camelot and etc).

Actually it would be nice if you elaborated on this one. I'm not a real big Golden Sun fan so I don't know much about the production itself. I'm sure Golden Sun is fom a second party company and Nintendo does own the character so......I would be most appreciative if you inform me on this one.

I'm not a big fan of extremely opinionated arguments presented under the guise of factual information.

neither am I, that's why I never claim anything as 100% fact until it's 100% proven. Thus I haven't a clue what you're talking about. I never stated this as fact and it surely isn't my mere opinion, because people constantly change things on this thread with their base opinion. Case in point Andy wasn't on this thread till yesterday because of such discussion. I listen to the people. This thread is nowhere based on my ideals of the ultimate roster, making a thread for that is stupid.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

It matters because none of the characters have moveset potential and at-least to me seeing Captain Falcon as playable in 64 was true WTF moment.

Amd I highly doubt Takamaru getting priority over Samurai Goroh although from what ive heard from Takamaru fans about his possible moveset I think id prefer him.

Im not so against a second rep for F-Zero but more against Black Shadow being playable.

:Looks at countless movesets sakurai's made: Quite frankly , Thus we have at least some proof for Homeless to add one , He should really consider on the crosser/Another F-zero rep because i surely think the idea of one is quite easy (Better than the idea of another warioware rep lol.) And black shadow sickening you ? I was annoyed of pichu as well Anyhow the developers can easily make the moveset for a second one , Only question that stands is will they.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

:Looks at countless movesets sakurai's made: Quite frankly , Thus we have at least some proof for Homeless to add one , He should really consider on the crosser/Another F-zero rep because i surely think the idea of one is quite easy (Better than the idea of another warioware rep lol.) And black shadow sickening you ? I was annoyed of pichu as well Anyhow the developers can easily make the moveset for a second one , Only question that stands is will they.

They won't have Black Shadow as a playable character. Still I moved things around so you should be more pleased with the list.

 

[WindSquirrel]

I could say more about problems with other characters that are presented as probably (like how Isaac is owned by Camelot and etc).

As I said before, all Golden Sun characters and music are owned by Nintendo

PROOF:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=k_IlVlH6Pmc

7:11

 

[Homelessvagrant]

As I said before, all Golden Sun characters and music are owned by Nintendo

PROOF:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=k_IlVlH6Pmc

7:11

I'm sorry about that, I didn't know who you're last post was aimed towards. Thanks for the info, it's most appreciated.

 

[Firekid2]

Hey Homeless. Can you please explain to me why Geno isn't higher than Bomberman? You're quotes against him don't make sense to me. How does Square-Enix not have a good relationship with Nintendo? They've already lent Geno to them in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. I don't see why it would be any trouble to lend him again. Plus Square did make that Mario Basket ball game. They're also putting the next Dragon Quest game on the DS. That's hardly what I'd call "shaky" So... why?

Otherwise, great list, BTW

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Hey Homeless. Can you please explain to me why Geno isn't higher than Bomberman? You're quotes against him don't make sense to me. How does Square-Enix not have a good relationship with Nintendo? They've already lent Geno to them in Mario & Luigi: Superstar Saga. I don't see why it would be any trouble to lend him again. Plus Square did make that Mario Basket ball game. They're also putting the next Dragon Quest game on the DS. That's hardly what I'd call "shaky" So... why?

Otherwise, great list, BTW

thanks, with Geno I'd say it's not that Square enix and Nintendo are so much against each other but rather they aren't in a close relationship like some of the other companies. Still I'm going to move Geno up because he was on the polls and I'm sure if Nintendo asked Square would be more then willing to do a trade off (maybe that internet FF game Square Enix is part of the trade off ^_^)

Edit: nevermind I already had it changed. Bomberman is higher then Geno because Hudson does work hand in hand with Nintendo and it deals alot with buisness affairs. Honestly as you've seen their is no probability on these ccharacters as they really hard to pin point as the obvios choice. After all Snake and Sonic could be the only third party characters. Just keep rooting for Geno and we will all hope he gets in.

 

[TheMastermind]

It seems like you skiped over this post.

Put Megaman where he should be. According to the evidence that we have.
There will be 3 characters that are considered 3rd party characters.

The evidence also states that Geno IS a 3rd party character. There is no inbetween
There has NEVER EVER EVER been a 2nd and a half party character.

So put Megaman off the 3rd party list just like Sonic and snake are because hes 98% confirmed.
This is with the current evidence that we have.

Leave Bomberman, Packman AND geno in the 3rd partly possibles. Nintendo would surly choose
Bomberman and Packman over Geno if they have to pay for the character. Its a no-brainer, because
those characters would bring in alot more people to play the game.

BUT put Megaman where he should be, with the other 90% confirmed characters.
No one will argue of Mega mans inclusion. Just do it!!!

And really think about it, Miis??????!!!!!!!!!!!!?????!!!! WTF are you smokeing????
Waluigi has a better chance than Miis.
Put Wolf and Black Knight higher on the list, this is not a list about your opinions, this is a list about evidence. ALL of the pros who went said that fox DIDNOT, DIDNOT have a wolf costume.
It was a rumer started by noobs who went to the convention.
And Black knight was importat to the fire emblim story.
Marth/Ike is to Black knight what Mario is to Bowser, of course black knight will be there.

PUT Miis onto the wtf character list and take off waluigi.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

They won't have Black Shadow as a playable character. Still I moved things around so you should be more pleased with the list.

I'm sure you can find another F-zero rep , Anyhow it's finally good that you give G&W The respect he deserves( TBH I think the shoo-ins are claus geno(Maybe.) Ridley olmair krystal Marth jiggs luigi C falcon Ganondorf and of course G&W ^_^.) Still your doing a good job at this O: And it's finally time you gave G&W The credit he desreves and moved stafy down , Now then i'm going to argue on why Jr's chances should be moved down.

First off i saw an ealier post by you that said "I don't want the whole mario party cast playable" And in likelyness doesen't geno have a higher chance then bowser jr When Geno is Number 2 on the poll's And Mentioned by sakurai ? So why have Bowser jr at 65% ? You hardly mention geno at all on his "BIO".
Now then i'll start with this , Do you really think sakurai is going to add what essentially is just another Side villian with hardly any PRA or wanted in brawl ? I mean seriously he has Not quite that much going for him.
Let's look into PRA shall we ?
Popularity - Here is where he has but he is not wanted for brawl so much :Looks at poll results: And is hardly mentioned by sakurai.
Role - His role is just the generic "OMG HI BOWSER IMMA GO STAB MARIO WITH A PAINTBRUSH" And a lot worse than a lot of the characters you have above him , Seriously he has not much of a role.
Attacks - He has uniqueness but Others do as well , Not much of a "SAVIOR" Here unless he has the other two.
Oh and the polls quite frankly do mean something :Looks at sonic dedede and countless other shoo-in's: So in the end your giving him FAR to much credit then he deserves i mean 65% ? Bother explaining geno or anything ? sakuari has shown no mentions (Or 1 i think...) In the journal and he didn't do that well on the poll's anyways so why would sakurai go out and add that ? And if your saying sakurai is looking for sunshine representation then by that logic Ashley = Playable and Ridley = Boss So i think you should at least credit him down a bit ? Don't you .

Anyhow as opposed to the new changes i like them but i remember when i originally saw this thread and at the final 10 it didn't have all those advantages and disadvantages for the first two characters , You might as well just take them all out or put them all on if your going to do that because To be quite honest it's annoying , Still good job with this (I just redid my Prob character roster today since the old one was dieing .)

 

[Qbuilderz]

how did G&W get moved up and not olimar!? i seriously think he sould be bumped up into highly probable,if not shoe-in, look..

all of the points you made
the title of the game was from a personal thing (his dog)
he is made by sakurai
he is a fan fave
tons of support
has a high chance of being the 19th slot
brings a new franchise to brawl
great potentail for moves

he has all this in his favor with pretty much no restrictions
this is the only thing i don't like about the list, it is extremely great, but please consider this.

 

[Darkwolfg]

i think an intresting character to play as would be viewtiful joe or sora from kingdom hearts

 

[MookieRah]

wow you followed me MookieRah?

LOL, nah. There just wasn't much going in the Brawl discussion area earlier today so I checked out the Brawl Character Discussion. Your post just happened to catch my attention, simply cause you mentioned your list being factual, when it's not. My main criticism is that while it isn't factual, some portions aren't very logical.

anyways lets get to the rest of the post which may I add is opinion in itself.

I never said that what I said wasn't opinion; however, it was based on basic logic, and not a series of contradicting guidelines. You said that you had a formula that you went by, so if it wasn't what you posted I'd like to see it, simply due to the fact that it might make more logical sense.

1)There are only 2 newcomers that intermix with veterans. Both of these are shoe-ins

They aren't necessarily shoe-ins. Yeah, Ridley and Krystal are hella popular, but they aren't shoe ins. Ridley has been around forever, yet still hasn't made a smash appearance outside of a small clip in the intro to melee. Star Fox already has 2 representatives, so they may not want to add Krystal. While I think they do have good chances, there chances are still less than that of the returning veterans.

It doesn't matter what I think as long as enough smash boarders come here complaining about it. So don't put this up with me but all the smash boarders who believe Ridley and Krystal are 100% going in while others tell me Marth can't be in because.... or G & W this... or Jigglypuff that. Still I will move some of the veterans up some.

Come on man! Have some balls! If you honestly think Marth has a higher chance than Ridley say it! Explain with all your logic and defend it! Don't cater to people just cause it's easier and you want people to agree with you more! Besides, a good debate is WAAAAY more fun, and as long as your opinion is backed by some good logic, you are sure to gain respect from people who actually think beyond simply wanting their character in and shutting logic out.

Only Starmen.net deconfirmed him.....do you know of any big name site/magazine/ etc. that has done otherwise (you know confirm him). Have you been to starmen.net? Those guys are Mother/Earthbound freaks (they even got Lucas pics that can't be found elsewhere. Why would they make a statement like this.

I've been to starmen.net, I'm waiting for their fan conversion of Mother 3. I'm even on the email list, but, I still think the info they got is still a bit fishy. It's far from official. Their informant might have been right about the badge item, but they might not have known everything that was going on.

You know Ashley's name was in a music update, according to your logic she must be a Playable character.

Haha, no dude. I don't believe a music update is causality for confirmation. Referencing a returning character, one that has been around since the beginning of melee, just sheds a slight amount of doubt on him being deconfirmed. It's not much mind you, but it's significant.

Furthermore the original 12 theory is a theory that was made up in Smash boards

I'm not saying that all 12 will make it in, I'm just saying that it is FAR more likely for a super vet to return than a newcomer to appear.

neither am I, that's why I never claim anything as 100% fact until it's 100% proven.

You know, I went back to the first post to dig up the thing that got me riled up in the first place and I couldn't find it. So in essence, most of what I'm saying is completely off based. I was for sure you said something along the lines that you were attempting to be as factual as possible or something along those lines, but I guess that must have been an assumption made on my part along the way after seeing the random guidelines and percentages and all that. So on that I concede, cause that's just my mistake; however, I still am making some points and it's pretty fun and engaging so I'ma keep going with it.

And nah, I'm not gonna edit the beginning of this response cause I'm too lazy right now. Besides, I still gotta work on my Graphic Design stuff and this was simply a break I took.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

LOL, nah. There just wasn't much going in the Brawl discussion area earlier today so I checked out the Brawl Character Discussion. Your post just happened to catch my attention.

It was the smiley face wasn't it? When I made this thread it was completely bare. Then I put the ^_^ and instantly it got flooded with posts. Oh and I know you asked for the formula...well you may have to wait on that one. I have that on a piece of notebook paper crammed with a pile of college notes (I need start organizing things more) . Still I'll look for them and will personally send it to you. Still It's not very accurate so you might get a kick out of it .

They aren't necessarily shoe-ins. Yeah, Ridley and Krystal are hella popular, but they aren't shoe ins. Ridley has been around forever, yet still hasn't made a smash appearance outside of a small clip in the intro to melee. Star Fox already has 2 representatives, so they may not want to add Krystal. While I think they do have good chances, there chances are still less than that of the returning veterans.

Well in that idealogy not even Dedede is a shoe-in because of Sakurai's modesty. I guess it goes into perspective. Those two characters are shoe-ins as newcomers will get at this time.

Come on man! Have some balls! If you honestly think Marth has a higher chance than Ridley say it! Explain with all your logic and defend it! Don't cater to people just cause it's easier and you want people to agree with you more! Besides, a good debate is WAAAAY more fun, and as long as your opinion is backed by some good logic, you are sure to gain respect from people who actually think beyond simply wanting their character in and shutting logic out.

Haha, well I hear you there. I don't mind argue against something absolutely absurd or letting my opinion be known, I just don't want my opinion to get in the way. If that happens then my thread becomes just another just My roster thread. Anyways Marth isn't that far down in precentile from Ridley and we know both characters are almost definite as characters. As long as I'm not saying Ridley will replace Marth things should be cool. I worry about the characters on the bottom like Ness because these are the characters that we can't quite confirm as either.

I've been to starmen.net, I'm waiting for their fan conversion of Mother 3. I'm even on the email list, but, I still think the info they got is still a bit fishy. It's far from official. Their informant might have been right about the badge item, but they might not have known everything that was going on.

Well it's understandable, we should only trust Nintendo itself when it comes to this information (you should notice that I didn't even mention it in Ness's profile) still I think it's odd for them to say this. It's not conclusive proof of anything but it is something to think about (if only for speculative thought)

Haha, no dude. I don't believe a music update is causality for confirmation. Referencing a returning character, one that has been around since the beginning of melee, just sheds a slight amount of doubt on him being deconfirmed. It's not much mind you, but it's significant.

Oh yes I agree with you on this point. The fact that Sakurai directly mentioned Ness means something.......we just don't know what it means. Some take it as confirmation while others deconfirmation. Sakurai is a slippery devil

I'm not saying that all 12 will make it in, I'm just saying that it is FAR more likely for a super vet to return than a newcomer to appear.

Yeah, well I was probably just thinking about the general audience at that time. I get tired of how people either use Lucas's inclusion of deconfirming Ness or Ness's original 12 status to confirm him. So just ignore me there

You know, I went back to the first post to dig up the thing that got me riled up in the first place and I couldn't find it. So in essence, most of what I'm saying is completely off based. I was for sure you said something along the lines that you were attempting to be as factual as possible or something along those lines, but I guess that must have been an assumption made on my part along the way after seeing the random guidelines and percentages and all that. So on that I concede, cause that's just my mistake; however, I still am making some points and it's pretty fun and engaging so I'ma keep going with it.

And nah, I'm not gonna edit the beginning of this response cause I'm too lazy right now. Besides, I still gotta work on my Graphic Design stuff and this was simply a break I took.

That's really good because I thought I may have said something really stupid in one of my older posts. I thought it may have been one of those moments when you try to stay consistant and intelligent in your posts but then one late tuesday night where you post something completely stupid and illogical that everyone just quotes wih a you phail sign, points and laughs

It seems like you skiped over this post.

Do I have to?

Maybe if you read my main thread more clearly then.......ugth nevermind.

I'm not putting theird party characters into the main post until they get confirmed, simply put, no way around it. I aints not changing it, its be dis alwayz way. Anyways I must ask, how does Mega-man have a 90% shot?

with the Miis as well....where is you're argument? Whether I am on crack, PCP, or the smell dish soap means nothing if you don't have a actual argument.

I will not reply to you otherwise (this being an exception). I don't mind you having a opinion but please have logic behind it (even if it's flawed logic).

I'm sure you can find another F-zero rep , Anyhow it's finally good that you give G&W The respect he deserves( TBH I think the shoo-ins are claus geno(Maybe.) Ridley olmair krystal Marth jiggs luigi C falcon Ganondorf and of course G&W ^_^.) Still your doing a good job at this O: And it's finally time you gave G&W The credit he desreves and moved stafy down , Now then i'm going to argue on why Jr's chances should be moved down.

First off i saw an ealier post by you that said "I don't want the whole mario party cast playable" And in likelyness doesen't geno have a higher chance then bowser jr When Geno is Number 2 on the poll's And Mentioned by sakurai ? So why have Bowser jr at 65% ? You hardly mention geno at all on his "BIO".
Now then i'll start with this , Do you really think sakurai is going to add what essentially is just another Side villian with hardly any PRA or wanted in brawl ? I mean seriously he has Not quite that much going for him.
Let's look into PRA shall we ?
Popularity - Here is where he has but he is not wanted for brawl so much :Looks at poll results: And is hardly mentioned by sakurai.
Role - His role is just the generic "OMG HI BOWSER IMMA GO STAB MARIO WITH A PAINTBRUSH" And a lot worse than a lot of the characters you have above him , Seriously he has not much of a role.
Attacks - He has uniqueness but Others do as well , Not much of a "SAVIOR" Here unless he has the other two.
Oh and the polls quite frankly do mean something :Looks at sonic dedede and countless other shoo-in's: So in the end your giving him FAR to much credit then he deserves i mean 65% ? Bother explaining geno or anything ? sakuari has shown no mentions (Or 1 i think...) In the journal and he didn't do that well on the poll's anyways so why would sakurai go out and add that ? And if your saying sakurai is looking for sunshine representation then by that logic Ashley = Playable and Ridley = Boss So i think you should at least credit him down a bit ? Don't you .

Anyhow as opposed to the new changes i like them but i remember when i originally saw this thread and at the final 10 it didn't have all those advantages and disadvantages for the first two characters , You might as well just take them all out or put them all on if your going to do that because To be quite honest it's annoying , Still good job with this (I just redid my Prob character roster today since the old one was dieing .)

Are you ever pleased? You're like a ripping tornado trying to steal all my masculinity (or at least the little I have left )

how did G&W get moved up and not olimar!? i seriously think he sould be bumped up into highly probable,if not shoe-in, look..

all of the points you made
the title of the game was from a personal thing (his dog)
he is made by sakurai
he is a fan fave
tons of support
has a high chance of being the 19th slot
brings a new franchise to brawl
great potentail for moves

he has all this in his favor with pretty much no restrictions
this is the only thing i don't like about the list, it is extremely great, but please consider this.

If I remember right, Olimar is the highest character outside the returning melee characters. I don't see what the problem is. He is in a very comfortable position.

 

[RandomGuy42]

As I said before, all Golden Sun characters and music are owned by Nintendo

PROOF:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=k_IlVlH6Pmc

7:11

I've posted that so many times in the last few days it isn't funny. I never realized just how many people thought Isaac was 3rd Party.

 

[Homelessvagrant]

Well I know Issac is second party but I don't know much about the company. I know MookieRah posted something about it which made me question if something might be going on with the company or something. However apparently that isn't so....So I guess the whole Golden sun deal doesn't matter anymore, if it ever did.

 

[Prime Time]

just needs more 3rd party chars like harry potter

 

[Sailyfee]

just needs more 3rd party chars like harry potter

I died inside.

 

[xianfeng]

just needs more 3rd party chars like harry potter

Please be kidding, otherwise oh my god you are an idiot.

 

[Thirdkoopa]

Are you ever pleased? You're like a ripping tornado trying to steal all my masculinity (or at least the little I have left )

Your right D: I'm just trying to help with this thread , All i think you should do left is maybe add or take off the advantages and disadvantages on the final 10 because It get's quite annoying , But your right.. And you've done a really good job with this . Meh your right , Anyhow good job with this as i've said (Like mine , I'll get the linkage later.) Oh and do you have an 88X88 Brawlish picture of paper mario (The one on that site) If you do i could really use one/That site , Thanks =P.