Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion

[FullMoon]

I'm not going to import a Lan Adapter when the last thing imported here hasn't even arrived yet and it has been like, 2 months now lol.

Brazil's mail delivery sucks.

 

[NinjaLink]

I'm not going to import a Lan Adapter when the last thing imported here hasn't even arrived yet and it has been like, 2 months now lol.

Brazil's mail delivery sucks.

Amazon did that to you? You can file a complaint

 

[bc1910]

If it was Amazon then yeah NL is right, their customer service is excellent.

If it was eBay by any chance, they have a great customer service centre as well. I ordered my mayflash GC adaptor from eBay and it never arrived even though it was apparently dispatched, so I complained and within 2 or 3 days I received a new one.

 

[FullMoon]

No, it wasn't Amazon. @Mocha bought me a gift and then tried to send it to me back in March.

Unfortunately Amazon didn't ship directly to Brazil >_>

 

[Dark Dire Wolf]

Do you guys fast fall your retreating fairs or let the jump go naturally to increase the retreated distance?

 

[momochuu]

how many other approaches does greninja have besides nair and grab? if somebody really wants to play lame there's really not much i can do lol.

 

[Jaguar360]

lan adapter should be mandatory at this point tbh. annoys the hell out of me to find a laggy smash 4 match because the only excuse should be distance.

I'm a poor 3DS pleb. LAN adapter's not an option ;_;

 

[bc1910]

Do you guys fast fall your retreating fairs or let the jump go naturally to increase the retreated distance?

I let the jump go naturally 99% of the time, you need the distance to be safe on shield. You can fast fall non-retreating Fairs.

how many other approaches does greninja have besides nair and grab? if somebody really wants to play lame there's really not much i can do lol.

I sympathise; people playing lame can be really tough to deal with. Approaching is not one of our strong points. Here are some ideas though.

I have a lot of success by running forward into retreating Fair. The way I do it is to short hop out of the run so that Greninja jumps forward, but as soon as he's off the ground, pull back on the control stick and keep holding back. Use the C-stick to input Fair so that the hitbox comes out just before you land. By jumping forwards out of the run but then pulling back, you extend the range of Fair while simultaneously remaining safe because Greninja's short hop is so high; he ends up in a spot that most characters can't hit easily from the ground. You can jump quite far away from people because Fair's range is so good too.

This isn't exactly a spammable approach because it's slow and can be punished by crossup rolls when people see it coming, but otherwise you're unlikely to get punished for it. You can defend against it on reaction but you can't really punish it. And every defence against this leaves Greninja in a good position, especially if they shield and try to punish. Also once you've short hopped you don't have to input the Fair, you could fastfall into a dashgrab (a regular tomahawk can work but Greninja's standing grab is ass so I prefer dashgrab) or double jump away or something.

Dash attack is not bad at all. It combos into Fair on hit for 21% and is safe on everything but block. It's similar to Nair, where you'll probably be safe unless you hit a shield. What you can do is DA and Nair a lot to force shields out, then mix that up with dashgrabbing. Greninja's dashgrab is one of the best in the game because of its huge range and relative safety; if they shielded, they will probably get grabbed even if they try to dodge.

Running shield works well to close the distance because Greninja's initial dash is long and transitions into his run animation quickly, but as we all know Greninja's OoS game sucks. So you can close distance but you'll be in a disadvantageous position for doing so unless you're fighting someone who can't punish Greninja jumping OoS easily.

Walking is an excellent approach against a lame Falcon or something (take a page out of the Marcina book and utilise walking Dtilt, it's awesome) because you have all your options available, but against campers it doesn't solve much because they're still pelting you with projectiles and forcing you to shield. So it's pretty MU dependent.

Short hopping over projectiles can work quite well because Greninja's short hop is so high, but it's not the most consistent strategy.

Walk/run forward -> Hydro Pump back works well, in fact it's basically free damage, but it just grinds the game to a standstill and doesn't really open up punishment chances. Also no-one really does this but some of the faster characters can actually shield Hydro Pump, then run over to you and punish the ending lag.

Now, this isn't strictly an approach, but it's my favourite thing to do against campers; run back, B-reverse shuriken out of the run. You get distance, you can fire the shuriken surprisingly fast and you'll start forcing shields out. Against characters who can play lame but can't camp forever (basically everyone but the Links, Duck Hunt, Mega Man and Samus) you should find this technique really helpful. I was playing Slice (top EU Yoshi main) last night, and this is how I was able to take games off him. His Yoshi isn't exactly lame but he was camping eggs and Nairs; I was able to just keep running out of his range and hitting him with shurikens as he landed.

Finally, fully charged shuriken can be very good against campers for two simple reasons. Firstly it's transcendent, and secondly we can charge it in the air. Against heavy camping characters I just short hop, double jump, immediately start charging the shuriken and then as soon as I land, it fires. I've been able to jump over all their projectiles and suddenly they've got this big transcendent shuriken flying towards them which they HAVE to respect. What it can do is force them to shield, which gets you some breathing room and basically some time to start spamming uncharged shurikens back. This strategy is really useful against people who just won't stop camping, the only thing you have to watch out for is if they start running under you to use Up Smash. In this situation just release the shuriken early and Hydro Pump away, or alternatively if you read them running under you just don't charge the shuriken at all, instead double jump Dair them for their trouble.

Hopefully you'll find some of these helpful. As I said, my absolute favourite thing to do rather than try to approach is to play lame back and B-reverse shurikens out of a run.

 

[FullMoon]

I won my monthly tournament again, solo Greninja

This time I didn't lose a single match.

Greninja offline feels so good, now I have to go back to wi-fi ;-;

 

[Snackss]

What did you play against?

Greninja's presence is almost non-existent on streamed tournaments, it's really frustrating with how little encouraging videos there are of him.

 

[FullMoon]

and two other characters I can't remember right now (I think) were the ones I had to face.

 

[bc1910]

Any recorded footage? Preferably of the Sheik match.

 

[FullMoon]

Nope, we don't really have access to recording resources there and I couldn't bring my own capture card with me.

 

[Snackss]

What do you think causes some people to switch to Greninja when they're losing? Someone just did it against custom Palutena, I saw someone do it in a doubles game earlier. It's not common, but when it does happen, why would they pick Greninja? Haven't seen it win, either, so I can't figure out what they were thinking.

 

[momochuu]

how do you fight olimar when you can't even get close enough to do a tilt

i swear i wanna drop greninja lol

 

[FullMoon]

Olimar is a weird MU but for the most part I just try to get him from the air since he has so much ground control. Doesn't feel too bad of a MU to me honestly.

 

[Kite0692]

what do u guys think about perfect pivot Ftilt? That's the only way this move seems useful to me.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SW5W-y4jQ90

 

[bc1910]

Inspired by a post on this page of the competitive impressions thread by Cassio about Pikachu's customless kill options, I thought I'd do the same for Greninja. I'm posting this here rather than KERO's silencing arts thread because this thread is more active, and also these are only rough percents, not percents for every character. These were tested on Mario.

Dtilt -> Usmash works from 86% to about 134%. Works much better with sliding Dtilt, from a walk or run turnaround.
Dtilt -> Fair true combos and kills at about 155% midscreen. Kills as early as 105% near the ledge, apparently not a true combo but people never seem to escape it.
Utilt -> Uair kills from 105(!!!)% until about 145%. You need to double jump Uair as soon as you reach the peak of your full hop to push people as close as to the blastzone as possible before Uair's last hit launches them.
Weak Nair -> Usmash works from 86% to around 110%. Not as long as Dtilt -> Usmash but probably easier to land.
Weak Nair -> Fair will kill midscreen from around 130%.

SH Dair -> FF Uair (last hit only) -> Uair will kill at around 100%. Very flashy but hard to pull off.
SH Dair -> Uair spike -> Dsmash kills midscreen at about 115% onwards. Dair and Uair spike can be teched though.

Upwards Substitute is less practical but can kill from about 110% onwards. Upwards Substitute -> Uair is a true combo that can kill at around 80% but it's harder to pull off since Uair was nerfed. Usually you need to double jump Uair to ensure that people won't fall out before the last hit, which requires the opponent to be at about 90% when hit with Substitute.

Our (practical) raw kill moves are sweetspot Usmash, Fsmash, Dsmash and Shadow Sneak. Sweetspot Usmash can kill as early as the mid-80s, the other three will kill from about 120% onwards midscreen. Front kick of Shadow Sneak requires more like 135%.

Fair can work as a raw kill move but it's tricky to land (generally people are more on guard for it at kill %) and won't kill midscreen until around 150%.
Bair is an excellent edgeguarding move and will kill offstage from about 110% onwards. It gimps at any % though.
Uair can kill from about 95% onwards if you catch someone near the top blastline.
The sides of Usmash (the 11% hits) will kill at around 130% by the ledge.
Uthrow kills Mario from 162% onwards fresh. It's a fall-back kill throw, extremely easy to land, and gets significantly better with rage (although in this game killing at 162% with a throw is well above average).

That's it for now, I haven't bothered with kill setups because I wanted to stick to the (almost) guaranteed kill options. If I've missed some feel free to add them in.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

I have nothing to contribute except for this picture.

 

[Gunla]

Mewtwoninja?

Is that some kind of clone of Mewtwo and Greninja?

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Mewtwoninja?

Is that some kind of clone of Mewtwo and Greninja?

-----------------------------------
oh I can do this now

baby stuff compared to what momo does though

 

[momochuu]

that's a good combo though

 

[Jonarobin]

what seem to be the best followups to grabs? I get a lot of dashgrabs on people, and generally defer to upthrow and occasional to a quick down-throw to Fsmash, but is there any guaranteed or extremely reliable followups I should practice?

upthrow to upair is deadly when it works, but I think either im slightly slow with it or just bad with it

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

what seem to be the best followups to grabs? I get a lot of dashgrabs on people, and generally defer to upthrow and occasional to a quick down-throw to Fsmash, but is there any guaranteed or extremely reliable followups I should practice?

upthrow to upair is deadly when it works, but I think either im slightly slow with it or just bad with it

dthrow -> shadow sneak if you can bait out airdodge/know they won't jump
good switch up after using uthrow upair a bunch cause they'll likely be conditioned to airdodge or di wrong

 

[bc1910]

what seem to be the best followups to grabs? I get a lot of dashgrabs on people, and generally defer to upthrow and occasional to a quick down-throw to Fsmash, but is there any guaranteed or extremely reliable followups I should practice?

upthrow to upair is deadly when it works, but I think either im slightly slow with it or just bad with it

Uthrow -> Uair is a true combo from ~20% to ~90% on most of the cast (all but Bowser, Luigi and maybe Yoshi for some reason) but you have to be very fast with your inputs. It's really easy from ~20% to ~60% but after that you have to start using double jump Uair and it gets harder to true combo, especially online. If people try to jump or attack out you can still go for Uthrow Uair because it will work just fine, but if they start airdodging out there are various followups at different percents.

• Around 60% you can stay grounded, charge an Usmash and smack them with about 20% damage for airdodging.
• After about 70% you should full hop, wait for the airdodge, then Uair and fastfall. They should get hit by Uair and be dragged down. You can follow up with Utilt, Usmash and tons of other grounded moves when you land.
• If you're falling ballsy, you can jump above them and Dair the ending lag of their airdodge to spike them forcefully. Dair, Dair, Fair/Bair deals copious amounts of damage and can even take good players by surprise. Uair spiking is more reliable though.
• Uthrow stops allowing for easy Uair followups at around 95% but if they continue to airdodge, up to about 105% you can full hop, wait, then double jump Uair to catch the end of their airdodge. This will often net you kills off the top.
• Past 105% Greninja doesn't really have any throw combos or setups that aren't easy to get out of. However if people continue to spam airdodge, Dthrow -> Usmash can frame trap the airdodge ending lag for the kill on floaties. If you're fighting someone who falls faster so they airdodge into the ground, just walk forward after Dthrow and Fsmash their landing lag.

===============================================================================================

Incidentally here is some stuff about Greninja's Uthrow and its uses as a kill throw. We all know it's pretty strong, but exactly how strong is this throw? I wanted to find out. All %s were tested using Mario on Final Destination.

• Greninja's standard Uthrow with no staling or freshness bonus (so training mode Uthrow) kills Mario at 168% on FD with perfect DI. With no DI it kills Mario at 164%. So DI barely affects this throw's kill potential.
• Greninja's Uthrow has a launch angle of 93 degrees which is almost straight up (90 degrees), meaning perfect survival DI is horizontally behind Greninja (horizontal forward DI makes Mario die 1% earlier). Vertical vectoring has been removed but horizontal vectoring is still in the game, which makes horizontal kill moves easier to survive.
• Only 3 throws are always better at killing regardless of DI. These are Mewtwo's Uthrow, ROB's Uthrow and Ness' backthrow. These throws will get kills more easily than Greninja's every time. Every other throw in the game is worse at least some (usually most) of the time.
• Additionally Luigi's Dthrow -> Down B is guaranteed regardless of DI and kills around the same percents as Mewtwo's Uthrow. So overall only 4 characters have categorically better kill potential from throws.
• There are 2 more Uthrows that can be stronger than Greninja's, which are WFT's Uthrow with Deep Breathing active (kills at 159% with no DI) and Olimar's Uthrow with a blue pikmin (kills at 147% with no DI). Whilst stronger than Greninja's Uthrow they are less reliable, particularly WFT's Uthrow because you just have to avoid getting grabbed for 7 seconds.
• Link's, Marth's and Greninja's Uthrows are the same strength in practical terms. Greninja's is the strongest overall but only by around 2%. Link's Uthrow is weird, it will kill some opponents 1-2% earlier than Greninja's but will kill others 1-2% later. Doesn't seem to be related to weight because Greninja's kills Jigglypuff AND Bowser earlier, yet Link's kills Mario earlier. Probably related to fall speed and gravity. Weird. Anyway, doesn't really matter, they're basically the same strength.

tl;dr In terms of guranteed kill throws, Greninja's Uthrow is 5th-7th best in the game depending on your opinion of Olimar and WFT's throws. Personally I think Greninja's Uthrow is better than WFT's, but I'm not sure about Olimar. But I hear you asking, what about horizontal kill throws? Don't a lot of characters have back throws that will easily kill before Greninja's Uthrow?

• Greninja's Uthrow is a vertical kill move and thus kills Mario from anywhere on FD at 168%. However various characters have Bthrows (Bowser, Charizard, Sonic, Toon Link) that will kill earlier than Greninja's Uthrow near the ledge, and some have Fthrows (Wario, Pit, Bowser) that can also kill earlier near the ledge. At first it seems as though these throws are better or just as good as Greninja's Uthrow even midscreen.
• In reality, DI/vectoring has a massive effect on these throws because they are horizontal kill moves. Note that DI/vectoring does not really affect Ness' Bthrow because it's just that strong lol.
• Take Sonic's Bthrow for example. It seems as though it will kill at 168% from way over half of FD away from the ledge, and will usually kill earlier than that, making it better than Greninja's Uthrow almost all the time. However, with good DI/vectoring (basically hold horizontally towards the stage) Sonic's Bthrow actually won't kill reliably at 168% until he's about a quarter of the stage away from the ledge. And that's only because the animation makes him roll back towards the blastline.
• Let's use another example. Bowser's Bthrow seems to kill at 168% easily from midscreen. However, with good DI/vectoring, it won't kill until a whopping 194% midscreen! To kill someone with good DI at 168% Bowser needs to be no more than around 1/6th away from the ledge. You can easily measure 1/6th using the stone panels on Omega Temple by the way, but I've done it so you don't have to lol.
• Wario's Fthrow is a brutal throw that will kill early near the ledge with no DI. However, with good DI, you can easily survive into the 150s. To kill someone with good DI before 168% Wario needs to be no more than 1/6th away from the ledge.

So again, the tl;dr is that whilst some Bthrows and Fthrows are better at killing than Greninja's Uthrow, they have to be used very close to the ledge (no more than 1/4 - 1/6th of the stage away in almost every case) to kill someone with good DI earlier than Greninja's Uthrow. I already touched on the fact that good DI barely affects Greninja's Uthrow because it's a vertical kill move. We can see here the power that horizontal vectoring still has in this game. The perfect way to DI these throws is usually to hold horizontally towards the stage and slightly downwards (so between right and down-right if you're being thrown to the left), but simply holding horizontally is generally fine. Good opponents are going to know how to DI Bthrows and Fthrows properly which makes Greninja's Uthrow better in the majority of situations.

Killing Fthrows are IMO better than killing Bthrows because killing Bthrows are a lot more telegraphed; you need to be close the ledge and have your back to the ledge and you can't really kill from a dashgrab. Obviously Ness' is the exception because it just kills from anywhere. Killing Fthrows can be used from a dashgrab, are harder to predict and are basically more consistent.

Overall, my ranking of kill throws would be as follows:

Tier 1
Ness' Bthrow, Mewtwo's Uthrow
Luigi's Dthrow -> Down B
ROB's Uthrow

Inconsistent Tier
Olimar's blue pikmin Uthrow
WFT's Deep Breathing Uthrow

Tier 2 (EDIT: Decided to move Lucina here, but please note her Uthrow is always 1-2% weaker than Marth's)
Greninja's Uthrow
Link's Uthrow
Marth's Uthrow
Lucina's Uthrow
Charizard's Dthrow/Bthrow, Bowser's Fthrow/Bthrow (they can choose which direction to throw you in, thus have better kill throws around half the time factoring in DI)
Toon Link's Bthrow (it's really strong lol, better than those above it almost half the time but still susceptible to DI)
Characters with powerful Fthrows (e.g. the Pits, Wario, I think that might be it though)

Tier 3
Characters with slightly weaker Uthrows (e.g. Meta Knight, Falco, Shulk's Smash Dthrow)
Characters with powerful Bthrows (e.g. Sonic, DK, Mega Man)
Characters with DI-able kill combos from a throw (Pikachu's Uthrow Thunder, Zelda and Sheik's Hoo Hahs, Diddy's Uthrow Uair and maybe Hoo Hah, you have to respect the confirms but they're not hard to avoid)

Tier 4
Everyone else

In conclusion, relative to the rest of the cast Greninja's Uthrow is a stellar kill throw with DI taken into account. I definitely think Greninja has a better kill throw than those with only a strong Bthrow sans Ness and Toon Link, because DI can have such a strong effect on horizontal throws. Greninja's Uthrow is not always the strongest, but it is a more reliable kill throw than most of the other powerful throws in this game whatever the direction. I hope some of you found this analysis useful and can appreciate Greninja's Uthrow being a better kill throw than we probably thought.

NB: This is purely a ranking of kill throws and their potency. I haven't taken into account each character's individual strengths and weaknesses that make their kill throws relatively better or worse because it just muddies the waters. For example Link and Toon Link have good KO ability with Uthrow and Bthrow respecitvely but their grabs suck, so they're not going to land their kill throws too often. Bowser has relatively good KO ability with Fthrow and Bthrow but you're unlikely to live until 168% vs Bowser anyway so his kill throws don't usually matter. Greninja has one of the best dashgrabs in the game which makes nabbing an Uthrow kill all the more easy. I am aware that these differences exist between the characters but as I said, this is an objective ranking taking into account the power of the throws and nothing else.

 

[David Galanos]

Not sure what's going on, stopped getting notifications, but about smash ladder, I used to be able to find great players pretty easily, and get good practice in. Now It takes me forever to find someone to play, because I'm constantly getting challenged by low level players, and, I just want to get good practice in so I don't usually verse them. I sit there for up to an hour trying to find people.

 

[momochuu]

@ bc1910 that was really useful, thank you. i never knew what to do after they got to a certain percent after uthrow and when i couldn't ffuair chase anymore.

 

[mimgrim]

You really shouldn't group Zard's Bthrow and Dthrow together like that. As Zard's Dthrow will kill much earlier then his Bthrow ever will (hell even Fthrow kills earlier then Bthrow).

 

[bc1910]

Retested. Down throw is his strongest kill throw, back and forward throws are almost exactly the same strength with back throw being very slightly stronger. Fthrow will kill earlier from the ledge but only because, from a dashgrab, Charizard holds his opponent closer to the blastzone than he can for back throw.

So, no. Back throw is easily powerful enough to be grouped with Dthrow.

 

[mimgrim]

http://smashboards.com/threads/throw-ko-percents.387043/

^obviously this thing is inaccurate when it comes to some of the changes brought by the M2 patch but since Zard hasn't had any (known) changes to his Dthrow or Bthrow or Fthrow since it was made it's still accurate regarding him (and a lot of the other characters).

Dthrow and Bthrow are not comparable in strength.

Besides I could provide my own anecdotal evidence that in training mode that a Mario close to the ledge will die around 130% to Dthrow but not until around 160% for Bthrow (and 150% for Fthrow) but it would be far more conclusive to point someone to actual, y'know, data gathered then my own anecdotal evidence (extensive or not).

So sorry, but I don't believe that your testing methods are accurate simply on the basis that you call Zard's Dthrow and Bthrow to be comparable in strength.

 

[bc1910]

I made some edits to my post as I was retesting for clarity so that may have confused things. I misspoke at first but to clarify, I don't think Bthrow and Dthrow are comparable in raw strength; Bthrow and Fthrow are comparable in strength while Dthrow is a lot stronger than both.

Midscreen with no DI I found Mario dies at 189% from Bthrow and 191% from Fthrow. This is from where Mario drops off the recovery platform. It's hard to get exact percents here because of the opponent moving slightly off-centre when Charizard grabs them but I tried to keep Mario as central as possible. So for example in Kofu's thread it said he kept Charizard (the thrower) central rather than Mario which would explain why it seems his Fthrow is stronger. It depends on which method you prefer, Kofu's might be better. But anyway, Fthrow and Bthrow are quite comparable in launch power.

Now as for the ledge, training mode percents with no DI:

Back throw kills Mario by the ledge at 122%.
Fthrow kills at 105%.
Dthrow kills him at 90%.

Actual data, not anecdotal. So between Bthrow and Dthrow there is a fairly large discrepancy by the ledge, and Bthrow is indeed his worst kill throw which I think is what you were getting at. Thing is, Bthrow is still relatively powerful and is grouped with Dthrow because despite being weaker, it does not detract from the fact that Charizard can KO fairly early with throws in both directions. This is why I group them together. Even though the forward-throwing threat (from Dthrow) is greater, there is also a significant back-throwing threat.

The discrepancy in Fthrow and Bthrow KO percent is purely because Charizard holds his opponent over the ledge after his dash grab animation which he obviously can't do with back throw. He is holding them significantly closer to the blastzone.

Hopefully now you can see where I'm coming from.

 

[Funkermonster]

One more week until Wave 4 amiibos get released where I live, and I can finally go and pick up my Greninja amiibo from Toys R Us as long as it doesn't get cancelled. Then I'll have all 3 of my main men I play the blue guys lol. Sooo hyped for the amiibo that I can barely contain it, and I will literally go on a rampage if mine gets cancelled or sold to somebody else

On another note, my mom's got my Wii U yet again, so I borrowed my cousin's 3DS (which I gave to her for Christmas along with the game) last week so I could import custom sets into my Wii U and I'm still waiting to get it back sometime this week beore I return it to her. Haven't played the 3DS version in forever... and man oh man does it feel so awkward to go back, especially playing Greninja. With the crappy circle pad and lack of c-stick, I find Greninja to be a little frustrating to play with the controls since I can't do retreating fairs, bairs, or falling uairs as easily, and I'm more prone to inputting SideB instead of UpB when I try to use it. I've been avoiding Greninja quite a bit online because of this and I've mostly stuck to playing Mega Man since he isn't as painful to play (it kinda hurts my thumbs with the tiny buttoms). The online on Wii U is already subpar in my experience as I don't have a LAN adapter, and the 3DS connection is even worse than I remember and some matches are just so laggy its depressing, I just SD and commit suicide to throw the game so I can leave rather than have to go through the lag.

I also missed out on a bi-weekly last saturday and I have to wait yet another 2 weeks to go, and I could've had so much more fun if I went. *sobs* I want my Wii U back !

 

[FullMoon]

And in a blink of an eye he's gone.

 

[Kace Mono]

And in a blink of an eye he's gone.

LOL thats epic XD

I've been really digging into my Greninja gameplay lately and really trying to nail down combos but its strange. I feel like no matter how hard i try for a combo, the situation can normally be tipped my way by a simple SHFF Dair. I was playing today and yesterday with a friend of mine who mains diddy, and he rage-quit matches because of "Jankyness" as he describes it. I think im finally hitting my groove with the favourite froggy.

 

[BlueTerrorist]

I been playing Mii Gunner as of late. I dunno, some think my Mii Gunner is my best character despite showing Greninja and Sonic a lot and I just recently started bringing my Mii to tourneys.

 

[Snackss]

Do Japanese players like Greninja? It would be nice if Greninja actually had any tournament representation in North America.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Do Japanese players like Greninja?

yes

 

[Snackss]

I heard Greninja is popular in Japan, but in Smash Bros and in tournament use I have no idea. Plus it's harder to find videos and streams of them.

 

[kackamee]

Amsa is the only Greninja player I know of in Japan

 

[momochuu]

lea, some, nikeru, shiki, and amsa are the only prominent japanese greninjas i know of.