Social The Pond - Greninja General Discussion

[elusiveTranscendent]

So..finally entered another tournament. Lost to Aerolink's Diddy in winners. It was going to be a close game 2, as I was making the comeback. But I missed the DI on D-Throw Up-air and he took it.

Lost to Mook offstream in losers. I actually tried to input a dropshield F-Smash but..The cursed hitboxes attacked. His Pikachu went directly through it and killed me with Up-smash.

..the pain.

Ah man. I've personally never had something that bad happen to me with Fsmashes weird hitbox, but dang, that sucks.

Is it bad that I'm STILL trying to decide between Lucario and Greninja? I've been told that I should just wait and see how Mewtwo plays first, since he's a definite main, but there's been nothing on him so far and I'm growing impatient with trying to choose.

Mmm. Why not flip a coin?

 

[BlinkIV]

@Lavani Funny story about that, Sync actually messaged me on FB this morning about that. When I got the Hydro Pump after the monkey flip, I realized it was destined to go deep and bair. I WAS THE CHOSEN ONE TO KICK THAT MONKEY.

@ Mocha He mainly plays Palutena for doubles against certain MU's. For the most part he does play Diddy now though. The match was last stock last hit though. I could've opted to do side-b OoS or jump back to reset. Maybe D-Smash would've been better. Oh well, always next week!

I'll upload the match to the video thread whenever TLOC uploads it.

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Ah man. I've personally never had something that bad happen to me with Fsmashes weird hitbox, but dang, that sucks.

Mmm. Why not flip a coin?

Perhaps, but the decision is for more than just my main, so I have to pick a little...better?

 

[MartinAW4]

@Lavani Funny story about that, Sync actually messaged me on FB this morning about that. When I got the Hydro Pump after the monkey flip, I realized it was destined to go deep and bair. I WAS THE CHOSEN ONE TO KICK THAT MONKEY.

@ Mocha He mainly plays Palutena for doubles against certain MU's. For the most part he does play Diddy now though. The match was last stock last hit though. I could've opted to do side-b OoS or jump back to reset. Maybe D-Smash would've been better. Oh well, always next week!

I'll upload the match to the video thread whenever TLOC uploads it.

Dsmash is a pretty good alternative to Fsmash if you think the opponent is close enough that Fsmash might miss. It has a bit less range, more start-up and end lag (Dsmash hits on frame 16 and ends on frame 55 while Fsmash hits on frame 13 and ends on frame 50) and kills a bit later (101% sweetspot Dsmash vs 93% Fsmash kill on Mario from the edge of FD), but it hits when you need it to and also hits behind you, so overall it covers more space than Fsmash.

Shadow Sneak is a bit different since it has a lot more start-up than Fsmash (SS hits on frame 28 and during frames 12-21 you`re intangible while Fsmash hits on frame 13), but it can be a very good alternative if you have the extra time since it`s better in everything else.
SS has more range than Fsmash if we take the shadow into account even when uncharged, so you can use it sooner.
SS can be used out of shield, which saves you 7 shield drop frames, making it frame 28 SS vs frame 20 Fsmash.
And the back kick is slightly stronger (87% SS vs 93% Fsmash kill) while the front kick is still decently strong (105% kill).

 

[Marilink]

Got 3rd (again) at the University of Minnesota Monthly last night! I think that next time I come, I'll be able to beat Neomagic, the Ness that has knocked me into losers the past two tourneys. I clutched it out in Losers against a Shulk and Diddy, then lost to Triple R (nationally-known Kirby main) in Losers Finals.

Still came home with $52, so I'm happy. Also, there were a lot of sets recorded from this tourney, so I'll post those in the Video thread and link them here as soon as they get put up. I'd appreciate advice and critiques when I get those!

 

[BlinkIV]

Btw another announcement regarding APEX. I've managed to land 2nd seed in my pool. The cool thing is, Chu Dat is in my pool as well (1st seed). Apparently he plays Shiek so I'm totally prepped for it.

During the event if anyone goes, just hit me up and we'll kick it.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Btw another announcement regarding APEX. I've managed to land 2nd seed in my pool. The cool thing is, Chu Dat is in my pool as well (1st seed). Apparently he plays Shiek so I'm totally prepped for it.

During the event if anyone goes, just hit me up and we'll kick it.

Good luck!

 

[Marilink]

'Bout to throw some vids in the Tracking the Ninja thread. Like I said, critiques appreciated!

 

[Coffee™]

Btw another announcement regarding APEX. I've managed to land 2nd seed in my pool. The cool thing is, Chu Dat is in my pool as well (1st seed). Apparently he plays Shiek so I'm totally prepped for it.

During the event if anyone goes, just hit me up and we'll kick it.

I'll be there. On another note Choco is in my pool, with all that Nietono and Amsa experience...lol

 

[Makani]

How many people actually play tilt-stick Greninja? I'm deeply considering it, but at the same time i'm apprehensive towards it since it'll be a bit slower performing smash attacks.

 

[BlinkIV]

I'll be there. On another note Choco is in my pool, with all that Nietono and Amsa experience...lol

Dang. Sounds like another death pool. i I believe some are being redone though?

 

[joaoTforce]

so guys I may or may not participate on a wii u tourney. the problem is, I have never held a gamecube controller in my entire life. So I'm debating if I should use a GC controller or just use my 3ds as the controller

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

so guys I may or may not participate on a wii u tourney. the problem is, I have never held a gamecube controller in my entire life. So I'm debating if I should use a GC controller or just use my 3ds as the controller

I'd say go with what you're comfortable with. So, 3DS.

 

[MartinAW4]

I'll be there. On another note Choco is in my pool, with all that Nietono and Amsa experience...lol

That`s going to be really tough. I remember that he beat Nietono in grand finals even in the pre-patch 3DS version with the fully powered Greninja. But Nietono has dropped Greninja after the patch, so Choco might not have a lot of experience against the WiiU Greninja. With all that`s been discovered since then and the lower ceilings in WiiU coupled with the removal of vectoring, you might have enough surprises ready for him to have a good chance at winning.

How many people actually play tilt-stick Greninja? I'm deeply considering it, but at the same time i'm apprehensive towards it since it'll be a bit slower performing smash attacks.

If you plan to use Perfect Pivoting, then I definitely reccomend setting the C-stick to tilts. But if you don`t, then I`d set it to smashes to perform them reliably and make pivot Fsmashes easier to perform.

so guys I may or may not participate on a wii u tourney. the problem is, I have never held a gamecube controller in my entire life. So I'm debating if I should use a GC controller or just use my 3ds as the controller

I agree with elusiveTranscendent, use what you`re most comfortable with. I remember when I first tried the gamecube controller on the WiiU version, I played a lot worse than on the 3DS. So unless you`ll have enough time to practice with the gamecube controller, I reccomend staying with the 3DS. The advantage of using an inferior controller is that it will make your wins that much more impressive, just don`t use it as a john if you lose.

 

[KERO]

I got Oracle and Will in my pool, so not much of a chance for me to make it out unfortunately =/ I'm still really hyped to see what aMSa brings out, though.

 

[Makani]

If you plan to use Perfect Pivoting, then I definitely reccomend setting the C-stick to tilts. But if you don`t, then I`d set it to smashes to perform them reliably and make pivot Fsmashes easier to perform.

I wanna incorporate perfect pivoting but I can't do it consistently yet. I also have no idea how to take advantage of it, should I be Dtilting or Utilting together with PP? Utilt seems like it has no horizontal hitbox. Should I use it to retreat as a "stay back" or "get off me" method? I need to see some applications with explanations on what it's being used for.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

Any Greninja's around here want to give me some MU experience against my Villager sometime online? I lost to a good one at a tournament a few days ago. Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this.

 

[BlinkIV]

I got Oracle and Will in my pool, so not much of a chance for me to make it out unfortunately =/ I'm still really hyped to see what aMSa brings out, though.

You got Oracle? Ah man thats though. He's super good, and one of my teammates. He'll likely go BJ.

 

[Marilink]

Any Greninja's around here want to give me some MU experience against my Villager sometime online? I lost to a good one at a tournament a few days ago. Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this.

EDIT: As Elu so graciously pointed out, I completely misread your post. I thought you were asking for help against Villy, not as Villy. That's what I get for checking Smashboards on my phone while I'm still in bed at 6:00 a.m. Either way, this is what I think while I fight Villager, so maybe this will be helpful to you from the other way around...?

A weak Shuriken will blow up Lloid rocket, but not when Villy is riding it. Jumping over Lloid is usually preferable to shielding, as it puts us in a better position (just watch out for Utilt and Dtilt), but be sure to mix it up.

Never let Villager get on a platform above you, because he will bowling ball your face. If he goes for a bowling ball edge guard, you can shadow sneak behind him--but MAKE SURE you get behind him. If you misjudge and get caught by the ledge, you are likely to get hit. You can also Sub on the bowling ball if you're feeling lucky.

If he plants a tree, camp til it's gone (but make sure you know when he pockets your Shurikens) and wait for him to come to you--and watch out for the axe. If you want to bait the Tree drop for a Substitute, go for it. They will chop the tree as soon as they think you're dumb enough to run into it.

Bairs off the ledge can do a good job of edge guardng him--they won't kill, but you can cycle 3 or 4 bairs and ledge re-grabs for good damage.

If Villager runs off the ledge, he is likely trying to Double Jump Slingshot you. Shield it or be ready to substitute off of it.

Usmash beats his Down Air, but it's close. If you don't sweetspot it, you'll get turnips in the face. Uair does NOT beat his Dair, and his Dair comes out very quickly, so your Uair followups should be conservative.

...that's all I can think of right now.

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

A weak Shuriken will blow up Lloid rocket, but not when Villy is riding it. Jumping over Lloid is usually preferable to shielding, as it puts us in a better position (just watch out for Utilt and Dtilt), but be sure to mix it up.

Never let Villager get on a platform above you, because he will bowling ball your face. If he goes for a bowling ball edge guard, you can shadow sneak behind him--but MAKE SURE you get behind him. If you misjudge and get caught by the ledge, you are likely to get hit. You can also Sub on the bowling ball if you're feeling lucky.

If he plants a tree, camp til it's gone (but make sure you know when he pockets your Shurikens) and wait for him to come to you--and watch out for the axe. If you want to bait the Tree drop for a Substitute, go for it. They will chop the tree as soon as they think you're dumb enough to run into it.

Bairs off the ledge can do a good job of edge guardng him--they won't kill, but you can cycle 3 or 4 bairs and ledge re-grabs for good damage.

If Villager runs off the ledge, he is likely trying to Double Jump Slingshot you. Shield it or be ready to substitute off of it.

Usmash beats his Down Air, but it's close. If you don't sweetspot it, you'll get turnips in the face. Uair does NOT beat his Dair, and his Dair comes out very quickly, so your Uair followups should be conservative.

...that's all I can think of right now.

Uh, Marilink, that was a Villager main asking for advice against Greninjas.

 

[Marilink]

...good call.

I should properly wake up before posting on Smashboards.

Well, to answer your actual question, Asaph...

Be aware of Substitute on readable moves like Bowling Ball or Timber. Greninja will actually teleport directly to Villager if he is close enough, and an Upward Sub will kill quite early. (But right now, not a whole lot of Greninjas are using Substitute because many have not realized just how good it is.)

Battlefield and Lylat are probably your best stages against Greninja, since Greninja will have a hard time dealing with your use of platforms and bowling balls.

Your Dair will be a good defense against Greninja's Uair followups, but if a good Greninja is on the ground and you try to Dair, he will sweetspot Usmash your turnips into oblivion.

Generally, just keep spacing him out with Slingshot and interrupting his shenanigans. The thing about Greninja is that he has to commit really hard to everything he does, so if you read the patterns of your opponent and start to see when and where he is committing, take advantage of that and hit him with a Utilt or a Dtilt or a Nair OOS.

 

[Coffee™]

Dang. Sounds like another death pool. i I believe some are being redone though?

Pretty much, there's at least one other good player I know of in my pool as well. I think some are being redone but I don't know the details.

How many people actually play tilt-stick Greninja? I'm deeply considering it, but at the same time i'm apprehensive towards it since it'll be a bit slower performing smash attacks.

I do.

That`s going to be really tough. I remember that he beat Nietono in grand finals even in the pre-patch 3DS version with the fully powered Greninja. But Nietono has dropped Greninja after the patch, so Choco might not have a lot of experience against the WiiU Greninja. With all that`s been discovered since then and the lower ceilings in WiiU coupled with the removal of vectoring, you might have enough surprises ready for him to have a good chance at winning.

I think Nietono has beat him as well before. Idk though. We'll see how it goes. Hopefully I can grab some practice with Riddle before.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

Be aware of Substitute on readable moves like Bowling Ball or Timber. Greninja will actually teleport directly to Villager if he is close enough, and an Upward Sub will kill quite early. (But right now, not a whole lot of Greninjas are using Substitute because many have not realized just how good it is.)

Battlefield and Lylat are probably your best stages against Greninja, since Greninja will have a hard time dealing with your use of platforms and bowling balls.

Your Dair will be a good defense against Greninja's Uair followups, but if a good Greninja is on the ground and you try to Dair, he will sweetspot Usmash your turnips into oblivion.

Generally, just keep spacing him out with Slingshot and interrupting his shenanigans. The thing about Greninja is that he has to commit really hard to everything he does, so if you read the patterns of your opponent and start to see when and where he is committing, take advantage of that and hit him with a Utilt or a Dtilt or a Nair OOS.

haha And you know what is especially hilarious? YOU ARE the Greninja that beat me. It wasn't in the tournament, but it was a friendly at the UofM. On Smashboards, it's MidnightAsaph, but I actually go by Denlock. hahaha

Yeah, I noticed when we were playing that I got a few kills off using dair when you attacked with uair, and that I was stupid and challenged your charged UpSmash with a dair. I was playing seriously for the most part, but I was letting the dair spam loose. I've been doing that a lot lately as a habit because I get a lot of good results from playing less experienced players.

Like I told you at the tournament, first time I played a Greninja, and you were much quicker than I expected. Hope to play you another time. Hopefully I can take more games off of you.

 

[BlinkIV]

@ Coffee™ Yeah, same here. I hope some details regarding that will be released relatively soon. I'm sure you can land some good practice with Riddle! Hope you make it out bud =)

 

[Marilink]

haha And you know what is especially hilarious? YOU ARE the Greninja that beat me. It wasn't in the tournament, but it was a friendly at the UofM. On Smashboards, it's MidnightAsaph, but I actually go by Denlock. hahaha

Yeah, I noticed when we were playing that I got a few kills off using dair when you attacked with uair, and that I was stupid and challenged your charged UpSmash with a dair. I was playing seriously for the most part, but I was letting the dair spam loose. I've been doing that a lot lately as a habit because I get a lot of good results from playing less experienced players.

Like I told you at the tournament, first time I played a Greninja, and you were much quicker than I expected. Hope to play you another time. Hopefully I can take more games off of you.

Haha, oh man! What a coincidence!

Here's the set in question, in case you hadn't caught the recording that Xeelt uploaded.

Do note that I also had some sloppy play in this set--I'll be crisper next tourney.

 

[MidnightAsaph]

Haha, oh man! What a coincidence!

Here's the set in question, in case you hadn't caught the recording that Xeelt uploaded.

Do note that I also had some sloppy play in this set--I'll be crisper next tourney.

Yeah, I bolted for that video because it's the only one of my gameplay that day. I'll have to really take a look at it again. I'm already familiar with a few tactics, but I need to actually play someone. Hopefully I see you at the next UoM? And Warehouse maybe? Not sure if I'm going to the second, but I def want to.

 

[Marilink]

I'm really hoping to make it to Warehouse. We'll see about the Monthly.

 

[Kace Mono]

Anyone know any good videos showing the AT's and how to do them with greninja SS? It's bin hard finding a good guide

 

[Mocha]

Do we really have at least 3 Brazilian Greninjas? That's beyond cool, and a small world, cause I don't run into Brazilian Smash players frequently.

 

[Ekans647]

Happy to see so many of our top Greninjas going to APEX. Show the community how strong Greninjas is and be careful of the weather.

Sorry about my absence. My alerts went wonky and I had to reset the whole thing.

 

[Mocha]

Wb Ekans

@ Spirst I saw this and thought of you. If it's too big, lemme know and I'll edit in spoiler tag

 

[Spirst]

Wow, this is great. I especially like the duck.

 

[Mocha]

It would also be a great 'cover art' kind of thing for a Greninja vs Duck Hunt discussion, if we wanted to use a piece of art for each character to discuss, heh. Idk, just an idea :]

 

[The Goldenbrawler]

Hey fellow Ninjas. I just signed up for a twitch tourney that'll start up in an hour, letting anyone know in case they want to join or whatever. All I know is this will be my first online tourney, so there's that.
Link to sign ups: http://challonge.com/paewea60
Link to stream: http://www.twitch.tv/adaptchance
Also, just to be more accurate, it starts up at 6PM EST.
EDIT: If someone perceived this as me being cocky, then no. I know I've got a higher chance of losing than winning, but I figured anyone who either hasn't been able to join a tourney yet could, or someone who needs something to do can join. Either way.

 

[BlinkIV]

I like the cover art idea, seems fancy.

 

[FullMoon]

Do we really have at least 3 Brazilian Greninjas? That's beyond cool, and a small world, cause I don't run into Brazilian Smash players frequently.

Wait, who are the other 2?

 

[Deleted member]

I'm so sad... I finally got my Wii U last night and ever since switching to a GCC after using the 3DS the first few months, I'm absolutely horrible with Greninja now. I haven't won a single game against a human player with him (only played against two people thus far), but I can win games with my other characters (D3 and Meta Knight) if I try hard enough. Feelsbadman.jpg T^T

 

[Marilink]

^I found the transition from 3DS to a Gamecube Controller was a little jarring for the Sneaky Frog, but it is doable and I'd highly recommend suffering through the transition period. As usual, things get worse before they get better.

Also, unrelated comment: I would just like to take this opportunity to point out that the Grey-Ninja is the best color palette.

 

[Deleted member]

Really hope that's the case. Wouldn't want to just drop him after playing him for so long. :/

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

Also, unrelated comment: I would just like to take this opportunity to point out that the Grey-Ninja is the best color palette.

Booo. We all know that default ninja is the best.

Hey fellow Ninjas. I just signed up for a twitch tourney that'll start up in an hour, letting anyone know in case they want to join or whatever. All I know is this will be my first online tourney, so there's that.
Link to sign ups: http://challonge.com/paewea60
Link to stream: http://www.twitch.tv/adaptchance
Also, just to be more accurate, it starts up at 6PM EST.
EDIT: If someone perceived this as me being cocky, then no. I know I've got a higher chance of losing than winning, but I figured anyone who either hasn't been able to join a tourney yet could, or someone who needs something to do can join. Either way.

Welp, completely missed this. How'd you do?