The Plumber's Crack - Mario General

[Jackson]

How do you guys feel about tap jump on/off? I tend to like it for fighters with decent aerial mobility (Like mario). The only problem would be more difficulty using up tilt. I don't tend to use it often at this point, but is it an important move? If so I might try to turn tap jump off to use it more, but I'd rather have if on.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I keep it on.

 

[GeZ]

I turn it off.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

GOT ME AN AVATAR UP
yo
What do you guys do against TL? Had to fight one and I didn't know what to do. I was do a lot of uncharacteristic things on my part and it didn't end well for your hero

 

[Jackson]

I turn it off.

Do you do this because up tilt is important?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Do you do this because up tilt is important?

More than likely, it's a preference thing. I think it makes usmash OoS, and ledge options easier to preform so I keep it on. I might try it, just so I can do dash cancel into utilt a little easier.

 

[BladeOFLucas]

Isn't Mario's u-tilt good for combos at low percents?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Isn't Mario's u-tilt good for combos at low percents?

Not to low but maybe after like 20 er so yea. Even into the mid % it can be good. It can lead into fair so yea, pretty good move.

 

[Jackson]

More than likely, it's a preference thing. I think it makes usmash OoS, and ledge options easier to preform so I keep it on. I might try it, just so I can do dash cancel into utilt a little easier.

Personally, I've gotten so used to it that I can't really take it off. Actually, I do turn it off when playing Snake in Brawl, because he rarely goes into the air unless he's hit there. Also, it needs to be off to easily utilize his busted Up tilt.

 

[Scatz]

For the Marth convo: You can decide a matchup's tendency by looking at how much one character has to work over the other. Even though both characters can wreck each other, what matters is how to land the hit to start it and how consistent it is to keep doing it. Marth has attack and grab range over us with good speed to boot. You're not going to be able to just chuck a fireball and freely prance around Marth. The matchup is the same as it's melee version, but the main difference is that we can kill now, so it's probably slightly more manageable.

It's preference whether you want tap on or not. I keep it on for PM, but take it off when playing Brawl. It's just about how its significance feels during a match.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Just curious, which MU are you talking about? Doc v Marth or mario v Marth? I mean, both are horrid, but one might have like 5 points more as far as actually winning
Probably like 35:65 on doc 30:70 for mario. Maybe less, because mario did not have much when it came to killing. So maybe 30 on doc and 25 for mario.
Oh and just to put this out there, shoormed stopped going doc in the MU a while ago. Take that in.

 

[Scatz]

In reference to the killing issue, Mario, but the matchups are still fairly similar (can't get in efficiently) that it doesn't matter (so really, both MUs).

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

What do you guys do against TL?

 

[MrM]

You said it yourself, you haven't played any good Marth players. You don't know the struggle, the pain, the story, the pure frustration, so shut it.

recently i havent no but i have played a good marth i havent been to a tourney in a while but the marth mu isnt a nightmare if you know what youre doing its hard but not impossible lol

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

It's a nightmare. The only reasons mario can win, is if the Marth doesn't know the match up, or is WAY worse than the mario. That's about it. If the Marth player is a better player, or on par with you and arguable around your level, you're going to lose to that Marth player, and you will be disappointed.

 

[MrM]

lol fireballs and spacing are your friend

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

lol fireballs and spacing are your friend

Saying fireballs, spacing and just do nair doesn't make the match up close to even. You read @ Scatz post?

For the Marth convo: You can decide a matchup's tendency by looking at how much one character has to work over the other. Even though both characters can wreck each other, what matters is how to land the hit to start it and how consistent it is to keep doing it. Marth has attack and grab range over us with good speed to boot. You're not going to be able to just chuck a fireball and freely prance around Marth. The matchup is the same as it's melee version, but the main difference is that we can kill now, so it's probably slightly more manageable.

It's preference whether you want tap on or not. I keep it on for PM, but take it off when playing Brawl. It's just about how its significance feels during a match.

You know bout dat melee MU? TIS horrid as well.

 

[Scatz]

I know it well. Had a Marth at college who would always wreck me. >.< Then GA's community has good enough Marths to make me see where Mario will struggle. You can't just say to do one move AND use something generic that every smart player is going to do and expect it to work. If one move shuts down a character, we'd easily be able to see that (Shiek vs Bowser or Marth vs Ness in Melee).

 

[Blakebtb23]

What are some tips/techniques for mashing down B? I am not a very good button masher, and it is hard for me to get much vertical height off of down b, while I see most other Marios get insane height from it. Since it does not help me much with vertical height, I usually just use it to get more horizontal distance to get closer to a wall or the ledge. So any tips for technique or how to practice this would be appreciated.

 

[Jackson]

What are some tips/techniques for mashing down B? I am not a very good button masher, and it is hard for me to get much vertical height off of down b, while I see most other Marios get insane height from it. Since it does not help me much with vertical height, I usually just use it to get more horizontal distance to get closer to a wall or the ledge. So any tips for technique or how to practice this would be appreciated.

Same! I didn't even know you could go high with it, I just hover in place.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

You have to really mash it. When I mash it, I change the way I hold my controller and I ben change my posture while I do it. You can try a variety of things like, sliding your finger over the edge and onto the controller as fast as you can. You could also try rubbing the button with the tip of your thumb. It takes pratice, but eventually you master the button mash as have I.

 

[Jackson]

You have to really mash it. When I mash it, I change the way I hold my controller and I ben change my posture while I do it. You can try a variety of things like, sliding your finger over the edge and onto the controller as fast as you can. You could also try rubbing the button with the tip of your thumb. It takes pratice, but eventually you master the button mash as have I.

Does changing your controller grip to mash it ever mess you up afterwards?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Does changing your controller grip to mash it ever mess you up afterwards?

No, because I'm only using it to recovery and I'm almost always at a safe distance from the stage/opponent. So I have enough time to go back to my natural grip.

 

[GeZ]

Does changing your controller grip to mash it ever mess you up afterwards?

Nah, you have time to move your hand back into place at the end of the down B.

 

[Jackson]

No, because I'm only using it to recovery and I'm almost always at a safe distance from the stage/opponent. So I have enough time to go back to my natural grip.

Yeah, that makes sense. It just seemed like it might mess up your hand placement or something haha

 

[Blakebtb23]

You have to really mash it. When I mash it, I change the way I hold my controller and I ben change my posture while I do it. You can try a variety of things like, sliding your finger over the edge and onto the controller as fast as you can. You could also try rubbing the button with the tip of your thumb. It takes pratice, but eventually you master the button mash as have I.

Thanks for the tip, I'll start trying and practicing multiple hand placements. Anyone else have other interesting hand placements/tips to share?

 

[Mr.Random]

Damn. Looked everywhere on video archives. No good Marth's vs good Mario's so I can't back up my argument. Anyone know where I can get a cheap capture card? I'd like to record matches

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Damn. Looked everywhere on video archives. No good Marth's vs good Mario's so I can't back up my argument. Anyone know where I can get a cheap capture card? I'd like to record matches

As I've said, there is a reason you don't see that MU. Just get a dazzle. It's cheap And stuff.

 

[Mr.Random]

As I've said, there is a reason you don't see that MU. Just get a dazzle. It's cheap And stuff.

Thanks. I wish I would see that match up more. I honestly think watching and having characters win a supposedly bad MU is really cool. Anyways Mario vs Falco and Fox. How are those. I feel Falco is extremely annoying and with Fox I feel whoever is puts the other in a defensive position will have the momentum. I usually try Bair and Dair pressure, I think one thing that helps out in these match ups is that since their shines trade more often Mario can grab trades and usually put them in a death position.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Thanks. I wish I would see that match up more. I honestly think watching and having characters win a supposedly bad MU is really cool. Anyways Mario vs Falco and Fox. How are those. I feel Falco is extremely annoying and with Fox I feel whoever is puts the other in a defensive position will have the momentum. I usually try Bair and Dair pressure, I think one thing that helps out in these match ups is that since their shines trade more often Mario can grab trades and usually put them in a death position.

Vs falco
Whatever you do, ban FD. Aside from FD, you could also ban yoshi's, FoD, PS1-2 and a few others. theMU feels even, but it could be +1 er so because mario is a good weight for falco. Falco isn't as dominating as he was in melee ether, so that's good As long as you aren't on FD your chances of wining aren't to bad. If you can win on it though, falco is done. I recommend yoshi's island or platform stages with ether 1 play or 2. It really takes away from the laser pressure falco dishes out and it helps with fireball mix ups.
Fox
He's kinda hard. He's so fast and your really easy to open up. If you can get a grab, you better uthrow cg him till you can't anymore. Otherwise, he is gonna smack you, a lot. Uthrow>fair is a thing on him. His neutral is way better, so it's tricky to get in. Always mixing it up will help you out a great deal. The only real way to CP against him is just to remove the stages that have a small ceiling. Even then, there is no bad stage for Fox McCloud. If I had to say, I'd say it's like +2 maybe 1.5 for fox. If you can get the grab that's half of his stock already. But at the same time, grabbing a good fox is no easy task and all of his melee tricks work on mario, so it is pretty hard. It's doable though, nothing like Marth>_>

 

[Mr.Random]

Damn it seems like Melee Top tiers still hold him back from being a top 4 character.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Damn it seems like Melee Top tiers still hold him back from being a top 4 character.

Yea, I think he is for sure a top 10 though. I don't know where I would put him in that list however.

 

[d-man2292]

dair to uptilt to fair!

 

[Mr.Random]

Mario actually has a really good neutral game. He can use fireballs obviously but I like to mix it up with pivot f tilts, d tilts, waveland bairs, and dair. Also Dair is really good at shield poking if aimed correctly. I usually slightly behind them. Down tilt is really good for floaty characters since it leads to a fair a kill %s and leads to 4 hit combos at low %. The only thing bad about him is his bad grab and range on his fast moves. His wind up moves actually have good range but his fast safe moves have pitiful range.

 

[GeZ]

People also need to think about his movement. It's really freaking good and a good enough grasp of it can let you dance around your opponent in the neutral.

But people don't practice it as much as everyone focuses on movement to follow fireballs, which are used in such great excess it holds back Mario players growth.

Explore your movement through WD'ing, stutterstepping, WL'ing, and DD'ing, while mixing in more grabs. Your game will improve greatly from have some less fireball centric options.

 

[Scatz]

I think I'm one of the few Marios that don't use fireball relentlessly (from watching other players on youtube)...

 

[Mr.Random]

I think I'm one of the few Marios that don't use fireball relentlessly (from watching other players on youtube)...

I hate those types of Mario's. Making him look scrubby. Movement is really important. Hbox vs Nick Riddle is really good at demonstrating this. He got lots of grabs due to how good he was moving around Link's range.

 

[MrM]

I'll just try to go to a tourney soon so me and my dubs partner can show you guys how a mario is suppose to look

on a side note it really depends on the mu weather or not u should spam fireballs & i dont mean just throwing them out there i mean using them to make your opponent be where u want them to be or approach you when u want them to that way u can set up your combos and finishers movement is a big part but most people dont have that at all and they are too slow to keep long strings going or play mind games

 

[Gallo69]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nNHu_5nq3c

Here's a video of the Marth matchup, but I think it's in Marth's favor.

 

[Zizzy]

I know Marth is a bad match-up for Mario, but I was just browsing the Marth character discussion and saw some Marth who are afraid of Mario XD I guess they must be those "bad Marths" that we mentioned.