The Plumber's Crack - Mario General

[Mr.Random]

Yea, I used to use on it on people who would try to dair me on stage. Now it just trades. It ain't even good. I've played plenty of games where I could count the the amount of times I did it, on one hand.

Did it have intangibility in Brawl?

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Did it have intangibility in Brawl?

I wasn't really into brawl, so I wouldn't be able to tell you that.

 

[Mr.Random]

I wasn't really into brawl, so I wouldn't be able to tell you that.

Oh I don't blame you LOL Mario was garbage in Brawl.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

www.twitch.tv/holyflame

That's the stream for today.
I'll be on it at some points. I'll post when I'm about to play.

 

[Xcite]

Question to the general public. Does anyone know whether Dair is positive/negative on shield and if so, by how many frames?

 

[Leeyam]

What kind of stages do you think benefit Mario the most? On one hand he can camp with fireballs and recover amazingly so you would want long stages, and on the other hand I find the smaller stages really good for killing with stuff like dsmash and bthrow.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

What kind of stages do you think benefit Mario the most? On one hand he can camp with fireballs and recover amazingly so you would want long stages, and on the other hand I find the smaller stages really good for killing with stuff like dsmash and bthrow.

Depends on the MU.
If you wanna live long and make use of the up B wall jump, maybe FD or other similar stages. You want quick kills? FoD, yoshi's story, WW, or GHZ are a safe bet.

 

[GeZ]

What kind of stages do you think benefit Mario the most? On one hand he can camp with fireballs and recover amazingly so you would want long stages, and on the other hand I find the smaller stages really good for killing with stuff like dsmash and bthrow.

Fireball camping isn't super useful though. You want to use fireballs as an opener rather than a self contained projectile game.

 

[Leeyam]

Fireball camping isn't super useful though. You want to use fireballs as an opener rather than a self contained projectile game.

I can see it being at least somewhat useful. For example when you're ahead forcing them to approach you, you can make it really difficult with fireballs and put them under a ton of pressure. 8% + reasonably spammable makes them amazing imo

 

[GeZ]

It's just not really good play. Mario really works well when opening up his opponent and forcing them to make mistakes, as well as apply well spaced, well thought out pressure. Camping just isn't his game.

 

[Mr.Random]

Fireball camping isn't super useful though. You want to use fireballs as an opener rather than a self contained projectile game.

I agree completely. Spammy Mario's are the scrubbiest. Fireballs are used to force approaches and for follow ups. When they start coming mid range you should stop using them since the opponent will aerial through and hit you. You have to play smart with fireballs.
@Strong Bad What do you think? I know you were one of the people responsible for Mario's changes in 2.6.

 

[Leeyam]

It's just not really good play. Mario really works well when opening up his opponent and forcing them to make mistakes, as well as apply well spaced, well thought out pressure. Camping just isn't his game.

Ok, probably just depends on the skill level of whoever's playing. Often when I'm playing Mario and I fireball a lot when my opponent is desperately trying to approach, they end up approaching in a suboptimal way due to the pressure and I end up punishing them for it. Against someone who has more experience and knowledge about what to do in that situation it definitely wouldn't be as effective.

 

[CBO0tz]

This is probably a silly thing to mention, but does anybody else feel like a few of Mario's moves should play sound effects from certain Mario games?
For example I recently figured out that his dair is sort of a reference to the B button spin attack in Super Mario World, so I wondered: "why doesn't it play the Spin attack sound effect from that game?" I just thought it was a fun little idea that could up the fun factor for me if I were to play Mario.

 

[theONEjanitor]

This is probably a silly thing to mention, but does anybody else feel like a few of Mario's moves should play sound effects from certain Mario games?
For example I recently figured out that his dair is sort of a reference to the B button spin attack in Super Mario World, so I wondered: "why doesn't it play the Spin attack sound effect from that game?" I just thought it was a fun little idea that could up the fun factor for me if I were to play Mario.

probably because that would be annoying as hell

 

[theONEjanitor]

quick question: can you fast fall upair someone's shield and then d-tilt before they can shield grab? Ive seen cruzycakes do this a lot, but i'm not sure if that's a real frame trap or if his opponents were just not reacting

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

quick question: can you fast fall upair someone's shield and then d-tilt before they can shield grab? Ive seen cruzycakes do this a lot, but i'm not sure if that's a real frame trap or if his opponents were just not reacting

What characters did he do it against?

 

[theONEjanitor]

What characters did he do it against?

for example here's a mario ditto. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xWDlQmxCsV4
he does it a bunch of times. an example is at 4:15

 

[the_irish_dude]

Lcanceling marios aerials is key to his combo game.

 

[ViewtifulHoe242]

holy **** i just realized something amazing.
Mario doesn't have a single "bad" move. literally every move can fit into your playstyle at some point
and by bad i mean melee ganon uptilt or jiggs sing in melee brawl and pm bad.

 

[GeZ]

I COME BEARING TECH LEARNED FROM GANON!

So dig this. Mario can WL his Bair and Uair. Not super useful, I thought.
Jump ahead to my time playing and learning Ganondorf. He can WL his Uair/ Bair very easily, but that didn't seem to be doing me much either until someone showed me how to perfect WL, which is to WL by holding the control stick completely horizontally. It gives you the buttershoe effect letting you travel great distance upon landing. This lets Mario stay claustrophobically close to his opponent as he prefers.

Now the issue with this is that this tech will be relatively inaccessible without ample time practicing. Mario's Uair is the easier of the two to perfect WL but neither is a walk in the park. I recommend practicing like the Ganon's practice. In training whenever you can muster the want, and in friendlies whenever you're feeling bold, or inbetween stocks.

I may eventually put this into a more thorough write up and add it to the guide, but until then, experiment with what this allows and broaden your combo/ follow up game with it.

 

[GeZ]

Mario has some of the coolest dumb ****. I'm just playing around with stuff I'd heard about and he seriously just has infinite crazy tech.

I'm just going to keep posting it here until I get unlazy enough to do a full write up for the vine guide.

So firstly, something no one uses that could be gah-like if you got good at it is cape gliding off ledges at recovering opponents. It lets you place yourself really far out from the ledge while being completely level with it and from there you can use any aerial and have time to DJ and recover. This one is really just good because you're covering a horizontal line from the stage with cape and then doing whatever the **** you want. Bust this out against Ike to Cape his QD, or Nair it if he aims for the ledge. Use this on MK to totally **** his tornado/ Side B shing shing thing/ whatever. It's just mad utility, and really ****ing cool.

Also we've got a DACUS. It's not difficult but I can't really think of a use for it honestly. For styling I guess? Or continuing combos that you wouldn't be able to normally? Actually, think about it this way: if you're comboing and your opponent hard DI's left or right you can use your DACUS as a slightly more mobile Utilt. It's easier on the inputs than (Run > stop > Utilt) and faster.

Wavebouncing is tricky, but can lead to some pretty nifty stuff. WB fireballs are just confusing for your opponent. I gave one of my friends a headache by alternating between WB fireball and regular fireball. Fun stuff. You can also, and this one's kinda hard to follow so tell me if it needs clarifying, WB cape off of ledge > WD back onto stage. This is tricky just for that you can lead an opponent to the ledge, look as if you ran off and then WD behind them, putting them by the ledge and you cornering them. Definitely a gimmick, but not to be forgotten.

As for auto-cancelling, technically, every move in the game is auto-cancellable so the trick is to find the timing. To get you started Uair, Bair, and Dair will autocancel on SH.

Another piece of general tech that can be applied to Mario is crouching and then pressing diagonal back and A will make Mario jab. Seems kinda silly, but the utility is (with practice) you can dash > jab seamlessly, which is pretty sweet. For utility/ things that this is good for you can pressure opponents comfort zone by dashing in > jab > WD back > fireball > etc. It just flows into Mario's ability to move through distances that make your opponent limit their options. Easy mode input for it is push control stick down, roll it backwards (doesn't have to be precise) press A. Easy peasy.

I'll post more random **** later probably. If there are any questions, just post em up.

 

[Smaggles]

I've always been curious as to why more mario's dont go deep with caping recoveries, if you manage to get it off it's always a free stock. Heck, you could just try play near the ledge the whole game and keep throwing your opponent off ledge and caping them. They'd get wise to it of course, but if you're chillin' near the ledge throwing fire balls then they'll have to come sooner or later unless it's Samus.
Also, what does QD stand for?

 

[TTTTTsd]

QD would be Quickdraw, in relation to Ike.

 

[GeZ]

I've always been curious as to why more mario's dont go deep with caping recoveries, if you manage to get it off it's always a free stock. Heck, you could just try play near the ledge the whole game and keep throwing your opponent off ledge and caping them. They'd get wise to it of course, but if you're chillin' near the ledge throwing fire balls then they'll have to come sooner or later unless it's Samus.
Also, what does QD stand for?

Cape is a really good tool against some characters, while others it won't much effect. Figure out what matchups it works for and use it there sparingly. It's just bad practice to abuse cape as you'll get beat up for it by good players. Other edgeguarding tools work really well in certain situations so the key is to vary your game.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

I feel like, there are few moments where you even need to cape. Because, if you can cape, you can also do other options.

 

[GeZ]

Next time you're on battlefield, remember kids: Mario's recovery is perfectly balanced.

But seriously, Mario is practically immortal on some stages. I'll post some crazy **** for FoD in a bit.

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

Name change coming through.

 

[CaptainZoso]

how about them mario fireballs in PM

 

[Hinichii.ez.™]

how about them mario fireballs in PM

They be roostin bad kids all over the world.

 

[Smaggles]

how about them mario fireballs in PM

i like how they are on fire and that they bounce and that they obey the law of physics

 

[TTTTTsd]

I think if there's anything us Mario mains should be ready for, it's an inevitable fireball nerf in the future, probably back to 2.5 standards. Of course, the fireball would still be hella good, but I'm prepared for it to not be as ridiculous as it is now.

 

[GeZ]

I'd be cool with a nerf. Mario would be crazy without them even, having them in any capacity is a boon.

 

[TTTTTsd]

My thoughts exactly. The fireball being as good as it is now going forward would be negative IMO, if only for the risk that it would centralize Mario's future meta and limit his potential. In 2.5 it was still perfectly useful but right now it's an even more reliable go-to that I think is a bit too good.

 

[BANCHEEE]

Cape is love. Cape is life.

In all seriousness tho, i love using mario. Dair canceled to downsmash on wario ware is just so OP because of the blast zones. People hate me more and more.

 

[GeZ]

Cape is love. Cape is life.

In all seriousness tho, i love using mario. Dair canceled to downsmash on wario ware is just so OP because of the blast zones. People hate me more and more.

Tell them to get good. And start using cape glide to chase off stage. It's delicious tech that nobody uses right now, which really deserves more love.

 

[BANCHEEE]

How did you/ person in the video do that recovery where mario just upB's straight up the side of the stage?

 

[GeZ]

How did you/ person in the video do that recovery where mario just upB's straight up the side of the stage?

The one on Battlefield? You start the up B right below the beginning of the curvature. Mario pushes against it, has his momentum slide himself out from under and along the curve, and then it ends right at the ledge so he can reverse grab. It sounds more complicated than it is. Give it a try.

 

[CaptainZoso]

i like how they are on fire and that they bounce and that they obey the law of physics

If you need an example for things that obey the laws of physics. Mario's fireballs are definitely a great example XD

 

[CBO0tz]

I just read on the Smashbros reddit that Dr. Mario in Melee could cancel his Super Jump Punches. Could that be useful to Mario in his Combo game, or was it even a thing in Melee?
I did read, however, that if you screwed it up, it did make you extra punishable.

 

[GeZ]

I just read on the Smashbros reddit that Dr. Mario in Melee could cancel his Super Jump Punches. Could that be useful to Mario in his Combo game, or was it even a thing in Melee?
I did read, however, that if you screwed it up, it did make you extra punishable.

It was really neat, but not necessary for P:M Mario.