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GeekModeOffset
: The OP of this thread has been made into a kind of directory in the form of questions and answers. Also the guide is being worked on as we speak. Just letting you know as promised.
Camp the ledge and use down smash A LOT. Its a 1 hit ko move at any percents if you are at the edge (only 1 hit of the down smash will hit). Use bomb to stop them in their track, when you dont have a bomb, use boomrang fair or grab them when they charge. Until they learn to faint charge (charge and roll back) they wont be able to punish you for grabbing.
Fishing for a dsmash like that wouldn't work on a good Little Mac. Even bad ones that blindly run right at you and straight into a dsmash will usually learn their lesson the first time, and a good Little Mac will be very careful about avoiding dsmash once they realize what you're doing. Dsmash generally isn't an easy move to land and is going to be even harder to land on characters like Little Mac since his attacks are fast enough that you'll probably get hit before the move can even start up, so if you're going to use it you should be very careful about it.
As any character, he cant just never go for ledge. I dont say fish for it like its your only move. If he refuses to go close to the ledge, he will kill you around 30-40% later. You can also stay close to the ledge since Lil Mac has to approach you since you have 3 different projectile that you can spam.
Sakurai confirmed that 1.0.4. was the last one, yeah. http://smashboards.com/threads/acco...1-0-4-will-be-the-final-balance-patch.382837/
Is it definitely out of range though? Sorry for being persistent, I'm just making sure we're not dismissing something possibly important. Here is an example that looks like it tethers from higher up:
Retlaf
: I've gone and tested the distances and heights at which Tether will work using a custom stage, platforms with integers etc. The 'shape' in which tether works that I was talking about is only a very minor part of what is gong on here, as the shape's role is most pronounced toward the very end (much further away from the stage). To give you an idea at what height you can be, it's ever so slightly under a FH. This is the same height as just above the smashville platform, which made me doubt whether this was really just a case of being out of range. But when I took it to smashville, I was able to recreate exactly what happened in the vid by simply using the tether too early. The Zair extended to its full length at the same height/distance from above the stage as it did in the vid. Basically, it's just a perfect example of a borderline case. We're talking about the difference of a frame or two. The fast fall did indeed just make it look really bad. (also, the balloon isn't the best point of reference as it moves along the vertical plain as well as the horizontal one when it goes across, that and it has very different flight paths each time.)thank you Artemis, didn't know if there would be anymore slight revisions or w/e but anyway, thank you for answering
Thank You!
I don't use it much, because you fastfall whenever you tether cancel and are likely to suicide. It could be used to keep you enemy from gimping you with Dairs though. If you've got the skill!
Well it's always good to keep moving while you pull a Bomb, so obviously Jumping in general is good, but as to why you would SH instead of FH, Toon's ground speed and control is way better than when he is in the air. So you would SH Bomb Pull to regain full control earlier. That's about it, unless you had some specific example in mind.
First of all, have a look through this thread as some of the points apply to Zair as well.
Try throwing the boomerang slightly later.
I've had the same issue but am very recently taking a liking to Zair. When I'm not sure what to do or need to slow things down I'll try & hit them with this. Of course spamming it randomly without purpose wont get you anywhere, as it can be punished. The first thing you should do is get use to hitting them, accurately, with the move fully extended. On FG I like to practice raining down Zair on them by Double jump>FF>Zair. Once you get that moves range down it becomes more practical. If your opponent respects your Zair you'll at least avoid combating Dash attacks while you land. I like to think of Zair as my substitute approach tool for Nair, because approaching w/ Nair doesn't work nearly as much as I'd like it to. Also, if you're not already remember to stay mobile when spacing, retreating SH'd Zairs for defence
That sounds like a b reverse, which is useful.
Ok Thank you, but another question, would a useful way to apply it to my gameplay to be when I'm chasing to do a quick arrow shot for example? Maybe someone is charging an attack like the sonic side-b and I would use a b-reverse to quickly draw an arrow or even charge it to make the shot stronger? If not what other ways do you think I should start practicing it?
I hear Toon Link is great at reading, and this is a Q&A thread complete with a chalkboard in the second post. So yes, this is where you go to learn how to read.
I'm not sure I understand what you're asking. But personally I use it to escape, as a mix-up, and also occasionally for recovery or to avoid an opponent's attack (which honestly though, that second one is probably a terrible use for it since dodging is a thing, but at least it looks funny). There are probably other uses for it that I'm not thinking of, but yeah.
Ok thanks again, I'll try to get better at it, I get it 75% of the times I try to do it on purpose
Well you're asking questions, this is the Q/A thread, I'd say you're in the right place.
It's a frustrating situation to be in I'll grant you that. The first thing I'd like to say is that you're forgetting one ledge option. It should be used sparingly because of how dangerous it can be if your opponent reads this option, but here it is anyway. You can hit away from the ledge, double jump back towards the stage and immediately airdodge through the aurasphere ('AS') and you'll be able to cancel that airdodge with a Zair once you're safe on the other side of the AS and hit him before he can shield. Now this obviously relies on you predicting that he will use the AS at roughly the exact same time every time, but from the sounds of it this shouldn't be an issue. Another thing you can do is just mix up your timing. If you wait on the ledge, it is very possible to react to the AS being shot at you (with the intention of trying to hit you once you run out of invincibility frames on the ledge) by using a ledge get-up or ledge jump at the right time to easily avoid it. (And if you're having trouble with this, all I can say is it will come with practise.) Also, if you're staying on the ledge for longer and for different amounts of time, this will mean that he'd have to actually react to your movements or hard read your timing instead of knowing exactly when you'll move and throwing out the AS with the intention of covering multiple options, which will make your normal options better.
Thank you. He releases it as soon as I grab the ledge because he is positioned such that it always lands, but I got down instant zair recovering, so between those two options I should be able to negate the aurasphere spam. I will say that I didn't even know you could drop from the ledge >.<. But I think that most aura spheres are too large to avoid by simply timing my getup because the hitbox will still be on the area where you lose your invincibility frames for a split second before you get up.
See this is always a difficult one. Toon had the same issues back in Brawl and now we can't even use z-drop bombs to help us land and airdodging to the ground has been made much worse. Because here's the thing, being above your opponent without a DJ is supposed to be a bad position to be in. It's supposed to be difficult to land safely. So first of all, and I know this isn't the kind of advice you were after but it has to be said nonetheless, try to avoid being in that situation in the first place. Think about saving your DJ wherever possible. But of course this situation is never going to be completely avoidable so let's take a look at our options for getting back to the ground against an opponent that wants to punish our landings. On your way down, you want to drift back and forth to try to trick the opponent into committing too far to either side. What you want to aim for is to either land behind them or land on top of them or land too far away from them. If you can land behind them this will allow you to pressure with Bombs (as it will usually involve a cross-up at some stage) and then throw out the appropriate aerial which will either hit (hopefully) or will force them to shield, and most characters struggle to punish people who land behind their shield. If you can land on top of them this allows you to pressure with bombs and it also gives you the chance to footstool them and even if it doesn't stun them it will usually allow you to get away and land safely somewhere else (people don't expect the footstool but it is amazing in these situations). If you can land too far away from them in front of them, then Zair should allow you a safe landing (assuming you're facing the right way). In order to help make them go too far to either side, you have your Bombs and you have the possibility of getting to the ledge (use bombs to turn around to face the ledge so you can airdodge to tether if need be). Throwing Bombs down at them can restrict their movement just enough to allow you to quickly choose one of the three options I mentioned before depending on which side of the Bomb they end up on and which way they're facing etc. Don't forget that using your fast fall at the right time can also help to throw their timing off; for example, mixing it up, it can be difficult to get the right timing to punish either waiting and then using a Nair at the very last moment or fast falling at the last second and then using a grounded option. In a pinch, and it should only be used sparingly, but you can fast fall and then right at the very end just before you touch the ground, you can Dair. What this does is it throws their timing off. The opponent is forced to react sooner and hit the Grab button earlier due to the fast fall so that they would have Grabbed you just as you land, only you will avoid the Grab by stalling in the air and then their hand will get hit by Dair. Now I say use this sparingly because sometimes you have to realise that you may as well just take the hit. You messed up, ok, so you get Grabbed (depending on the matchup, it might not even be that big of a deal). But if you Dair and they are expecting it, you will receive a much harder punish. There is of course the option of doing a B-reversal with an arrow but I've never found this to help in my experience, unless the opponent has committed to a very laggy (and powerful) attack in front of them and you need to land behind them (because there's super armor on that move or something).
Normal getup? Aurasphere'd
I've been having this problem too where no matter how I get back on stage, if my opponent has spaced it right, ther's no option for me to return. especially against faster characters. I've been thinking of making using zair-dropping to both zair (hit someone on the ground) and let the bomb blow up me up higher. I'm in a position to make some extra time for myself to regain stage control but I haven't tested it yet to even see if it'd work.
This issue can always be really annoying. The only thing I've been able to do is just mix up landings more, also zair is generally better for landing than nair since it has more range and less landing lag. Fair also might be better since it has more range and pushes shields back further, and only has 3 more frames of landing lag.
