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Q&A The Pirate's Charm - READ BEFORE POSTING - The Toon Board Rules / Q&A Thread

Artmastercorey

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Toon link seems to struggle against speedy characters - and so i contend with the answer - NAIR. Nair always balances things out. :]
Nair out of shield? To nair you have to first jump and it seems one of his harder moves to connect with. Because of which cant faster charaters often punish you before you even get a chance to nair or especially if you miss from the landing lag.

Lastly it makes me wonder what speed class is toon link anyway? He's not fast (his attacks arent the fastest) nor is he slow (running wise). I suppose he's same speed class as the other projectile-ist. Megaman, villager, ect.
 

Noso

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I can't seem to get a throw in the life of me(and from the looks of things after reading this thread i'm not alone) so i'm assuming to use it extremely sparingly. Also are there any training tips to getting better with t.Link that ya'll have used.
 

Zediwonder

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I can't seem to get a throw in the life of me(and from the looks of things after reading this thread i'm not alone) so i'm assuming to use it extremely sparingly. Also are there any training tips to getting better with t.Link that ya'll have used.
Toon Link's grabs are a lot more forgiving than they were in brawl, at least that's how it feels to me and he got a massive buff on his bthrow so that it KO's now.

The best tip for getting better is of course playing matches, Toon Link was my main since the beginning of brawl and a lot of it carried over into Smash 4. For a long time I didn't really use arrows just because I wasn't used to them so I tried to slowly implement them into my play and they are really helpful, same with throwing the boomerang in different directions. Right now I'm doing the same thing with his Zair because I've never been able to find the use of it but I'm practicing so I find out why it's so highly praised outside of it's frankly ridiculous tethering ability.
 

Fangblade

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I can't seem to get a throw in the life of me(and from the looks of things after reading this thread i'm not alone) so i'm assuming to use it extremely sparingly. Also are there any training tips to getting better with t.Link that ya'll have used.
Only thing that comes to mind is Zair, this move is important. Oh and comboing out of your Utilt, because Uair is easily avoided. So get use to mixing things up. If you can get your opponent to airdodge he'll be on the defensive!

I would agree his grab still isn't very safe. Some matches I won't use it once, since I'll be punished. Zair>Grab is like the coolest (so much style)
 

ILJ

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Nair out of shield? To nair you have to first jump and it seems one of his harder moves to connect with. Because of which cant faster charaters often punish you before you even get a chance to nair or especially if you miss from the landing lag.

Lastly it makes me wonder what speed class is toon link anyway? He's not fast (his attacks arent the fastest) nor is he slow (running wise). I suppose he's same speed class as the other projectile-ist. Megaman, villager, ect.
Toon link's nair is one of his best moves. The best time to use it would be as a follow up...Therefore set up your short hop nair with the use of bombs, boomerangs, zair, and/or mind games in general. Its important to know that he is a specialist character/ dynamic one. The more I use him the better I get with my MIND GAMES. Incorporating the sh > nair is one aspect bro. In my opinion he is what i like to call a switch styled player - switch meaning both offensive and defensive, always on the defensive end first. Spacing is crucial to master as you will be looking to camp around your opponent alot and when the time is right then you reply with moves such as the sh nair. Space with bombs, boomerangs, zair in hopes of landing an attack to follow up with. Practice you combos with him to, he has alot to be discovered, simple 2-3 hit combos.
 

Noso

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Thank you Zedi and fang I appreciate the tips, I felt like Zair was important but I'm still clueless how to implement it but i suppose that'll come with time. I know this may sound extremely noobish, but on the first post it says that T.Link is a campy figher, what exactly does that mean? what i've taken from it is i should throw projectiles and bait my enemy until they slip up and capitalize on it.
 

ILJ

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Thank you Zedi and fang I appreciate the tips, I felt like Zair was important but I'm still clueless how to implement it but i suppose that'll come with time. I know this may sound extremely noobish, but on the first post it says that T.Link is a campy figher, what exactly does that mean? what i've taken from it is i should throw projectiles and bait my enemy until they slip up and capitalize on it.
If youve ever been camping before or have watched people hunt, what is it they do? They avoid being seen, and when the time is right they attack. In the same way, toon link needs to space around his opponents (defensively) with bombs, boomerangs, zair, and when the time is right, you go in and attack. Zair is a great spacing toolt hat can actually be followed up with nair, dash(my favorite), and a grab. I have really dove into the art of tink and believe he can be both defensive and offensive. Everyone plays him differently but similar in the way they set up their attacks. I like to zair when the guy is rushing me and simultaneously move back thereby creating space from the short hop while the hook shot is there to block and/or hit my opponent. If it hits, you can follow up! If not, keep camping and your awareness high. Key to toon link is to have great bomb/mind games and PATIENCE. And patience, and patience.
 

Zediwonder

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Campy just means you generally sit in one area and fire projectiles, a lot of people call it spamming but they just gotta bad case of the get goods. Toon Link's good at this because not only does he have 3 projectiles that are all good but standing still blocks pretty much all projectiles so nothing can threaten you. A lot of people, even the best players will say you're spamming when you do this but don't be discouraged by that, it's just the best way to play him.

Toon links projectile game is amazing for setting up, but it takes a lot of time to get used to it. I feel it's almost instinctive to me now on how I react when a projectile hits, boomerang and bombs can knock opponents into aerials, smashes for KO's, tilts, literally anything. Boomerang is great for forcing your opponent to spot dodge or roll giving you the perfect chance to grab them and that's my usual tactic for getting grabs. Again it's become instinctive for me after playing for so long and you'll eventually figure out his nuances and how to effectively use them for yourself. Toon Link is so diverse there's no real wrong way to play him.
 
D

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I can't seem to get a throw in the life of me(and from the looks of things after reading this thread i'm not alone) so i'm assuming to use it extremely sparingly.
TL's throws are pretty good, so you just have to get your opponent into a position where they're easy to grab by baiting a shield, air dodge (then punish the landing lag by grabbing), or anything else that makes them easy to grab. But yeah, once you've gotten the grab it puts you in a pretty good position since TL's throws except bthrow are good for set-ups, and bthrow is really good for killing.

Thank you Zedi and fang I appreciate the tips, I felt like Zair was important but I'm still clueless how to implement it but i suppose that'll come with time. I know this may sound extremely noobish, but on the first post it says that T.Link is a campy figher, what exactly does that mean? what i've taken from it is i should throw projectiles and bait my enemy until they slip up and capitalize on it.
Pretty much.
 

Noso

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I've heard fast people are a counter pick to T.link, do we have anything we can use against them?
 
D

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Campy just means you generally sit in one area and fire projectiles, a lot of people call it spamming but they just gotta bad case of the get goods. Toon Link's good at this because not only does he have 3 projectiles that are all good but standing still blocks pretty much all projectiles so nothing can threaten you. A lot of people, even the best players will say you're spamming when you do this but don't be discouraged by that, it's just the best way to play him.
A good TL won't camp that way. You should just stay out of range of the opponent's attacks while taking advantage of the range on TL's projectiles. Constantly camping in one spot is just going to get you punished, and your projectiles will get power shielded a lot. Also, I haven't heard of any pros referring to camping as being spammy, or complaining about it in any way.

I've heard fast people are a counter pick to T.link, do we have anything we can use against them?
You just have to do a better job of covering your escape against them.
 

ILJ

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I've heard fast people are a counter pick to T.link, do we have anything we can use against them?
Be ready to use that nair my son...in my opinion it is the best tool we have against speedy characters and makes Toon link appear very fast.\ while that is not wholly true.
 

Artmastercorey

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I saw on the front page a video that rosalina and luma can cancel out their landing lag with an aerial. Is this possible for toonlink because his landing lag can be hideous.
 
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D

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I saw on the front page a video that rosalina and luma can cancel out their landing lag with an aerial. Is this possible for toonlink because his landing lag can be hideous.
TL's uair autocancels if it's timed immediately before hitting the ground, which should cancel the landing lag from an air dodge. I could be wrong though since I haven't tested to see if it really works with cancelling air dodge landing lag, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
 

Artmastercorey

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TL's uair autocancels if it's timed immediately before hitting the ground, which should cancel the landing lag from an air dodge. I could be wrong though since I haven't tested to see if it really works with cancelling air dodge landing lag, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.
Thanks Dr. Artemis

You know I noticed something in training mode. All toonlinks aeries have get up lag except bair. I can jump and do a bair and put my shield up as soon as I land. I cant do that for nair or any other move. If I use mario's nair i can immediatly put my shield up as soon as I touch the ground. This quick second of get up animation toon goes through is enough for a quick character to punish him it seems.
 
D

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Thanks Dr. Artemis

You know I noticed something in training mode. All toonlinks aeries have get up lag except bair. I can jump and do a bair and put my shield up as soon as I land. I cant do that for nair or any other move. If I use mario's nair i can immediatly put my shield up as soon as I touch the ground. This quick second of get up animation toon goes through is enough for a quick character to punish him it seems.
Bair has pretty horrible landing lag, actually. This has the frame data for landing lag on all of the aerials. But yeah, you're probably not getting any landing lag from bair because of inputting the bair soon enough after short hopping. Nair and fair also don't have any landing lag if you input them quickly enough.
 

Artmastercorey

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Bair has pretty horrible landing lag, actually. This has the frame data for landing lag on all of the aerials. But yeah, you're probably not getting any landing lag from bair because of inputting the bair soon enough after short hopping. Nair and fair also don't have any landing lag if you input them quickly enough.
Your right you can put your shield up quick enough after landing from a nair, but man the timing is so much harder than bair.

fair doesnt seem to work at all for me here.
 
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Noso

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Is J.C. Glide tossing still in the 3ds version? I've tried attempting it a few times in practice but can't quite pull it off.
 
D

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Is J.C. Glide tossing still in the 3ds version? I've tried attempting it a few times in practice but can't quite pull it off.
Yeah, it's in both versions. It helps if you "slide" your thumb from X to A. Also, one way you can tell if you did it right is you should be able to input a dash right after the bomb throw, causing you to run into your own bomb and blow yourself up. Another thing that helps show if you did it right is to go to a stage with lots of slopes like Yoshi's Island, since JCBTing while on a slope makes the slide more noticeable. You also get a larger and more noticeable slide out of a slingshot, or JCBTing after a turn around animation while running.
 

Sharkzie

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How do you instantly snap onto the ledge with your tether? I've seen Toon Links hooking to the ledge and instantly snapping onto it, making it back on stage really quickly.
 

BlazingEmperor

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Hi,
im a player form the Smash 4 community of Montreal. And I am thinking of returning to Toon Link after my recent succes with him over my main Samus.

I have read alot of posts but I am looking at particular advices:

1. What is the best grab at low %, does Toon Link have a string out of throw to rack up dmg even more easily?

2. Do you guys use Utilts alot? And how do you get people into your Utilts?

3. And most important of all. How do you use your Zair?

Thank You
 
D

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How do you instantly snap onto the ledge with your tether? I've seen Toon Links hooking to the ledge and instantly snapping onto it, making it back on stage really quickly.
Quickly press pretty much any button or up on the control stick.

Hi,
im a player form the Smash 4 community of Montreal. And I am thinking of returning to Toon Link after my recent succes with him over my main Samus.

I have read alot of posts but I am looking at particular advices:

1. What is the best grab at low %, does Toon Link have a string out of throw to rack up dmg even more easily?
Dthrow is good for reads at low %s. Dthrow > bair and dthrow > boomerang can work, but I wouldn't count on it. You can also dthrow then empty hop at the opponent or otherwise try to bait an air dodge, then punish the landing lag with another grab after they've gotten to the ground. Sometimes even dthrow > spin attack can work, but I wouldn't go for it unless you're 1,000% sure it's going to land and you don't have any better ideas. Uthrow > uair is another thing that works at low percents.

2. Do you guys use Utilts alot? And how do you get people into your Utilts?
Utilt is amazing for comboing into itself to rack up damage, then possibly attacking from there based on what you think the opponent is going to do. As for getting it to land, it can be used out of shield, for punishing, if the opponent is above you, apparently shield pressure, and tons of other situations.

3. And most important of all. How do you use your Zair?
It's a good spacing tool, approach, and can lead to things like zair > nair, zair > grab, and at higher %s, apparently zair > usmash for a KO (I haven't been able to land this personally, but Zan swears it works and says it helped him loads with placing well in a tournament recently).
 

Funkermonster

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May I ask the main differences between Toon Link and Link? I myself do not play either character, but I gave the 3DS game to my younger cousin for Xmas and she's still trying to learn how 2 play the game and mastering the basic controls and actions (trying to teach her how to properly do all 5 aerials currently). I think she's still trying to find who she enjoys the most but she played a lot of Toon Link the last time I saw her and asked me if he's the same character as his original, and since I don't know how to play either of them I was unable to properly answer it.

I'm not asking for the full list of differences, just the noteworthy ones that would change the way you play them.
 
D

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May I ask the main differences between Toon Link and Link? I myself do not play either character, but I gave the 3DS game to my younger cousin for Xmas and she's still trying to learn how 2 play the game and mastering the basic controls and actions (trying to teach her how to properly do all 5 aerials currently). I think she's still trying to find who she enjoys the most but she played a lot of Toon Link the last time I saw her and asked me if he's the same character as his original, and since I don't know how to play either of them I was unable to properly answer it.

I'm not asking for the full list of differences, just the noteworthy ones that would change the way you play them.
Toon Link has a faster running speed, is lighter, his bombs have a larger blast radius, and his smashes are harder to punish. Link is stronger, has more range, his aerials have less landing lag, and he gets more horizontal recovery from both his spin attack and tether. A bunch of their moves are also completely different, and Link has a gust effect on his boomerang while Toon Link doesn't.
 

Cyre

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May I ask the main differences between Toon Link and Link? I myself do not play either character, but I gave the 3DS game to my younger cousin for Xmas and she's still trying to learn how 2 play the game and mastering the basic controls and actions (trying to teach her how to properly do all 5 aerials currently). I think she's still trying to find who she enjoys the most but she played a lot of Toon Link the last time I saw her and asked me if he's the same character as his original, and since I don't know how to play either of them I was unable to properly answer it.

I'm not asking for the full list of differences, just the noteworthy ones that would change the way you play them.
Toon Link

~Faster movement speed
~Most of his moves are weaker but are a bit faster on the draw.
~His aerials arguably are not as good in comparison to links.
~Arguably a better projectile game than Link
~Pretty darn light
~Somewhat has an easier time performing ATs and has a slightly bigger list? (don't quote me on this)
~Has some really great strings! Bomb> fair is the most basic example

Link

~Hard hitter
~Pretty darn heavy
~Has some really quick and powerful options such as his dash attack
~An extremely cool nair
~Much more killing power

Thats all I know when it comes to Link. At the end of the day, it kind of just comes down to preference albeit aesthetic or gameplay wise. I'd recommend Link to someone new or younger as he is just far more rewarding to play early on. His regular attacks are just far less punishing. For me, I feel as if Link is far to sluggish. Anyways, have fun!

Edit: @Dr. Artemis just ninja'd me. Said it better though than I could have.
 
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I noticed that z dropping a bomb still executed the action of performing the zair, so I tried doing it with a bomb in hand when running at a training npc and it seemed to hit with the bomb and the zair if sorta close, I'll test it later, but I think this could both cover the front and back ends of Toon Link when performed, just randomly found out this idea a few minutes ago, also if I'm pretty new to Smash so if I'm dumb about something sorry. I wanted to contribute an idea since this forum helped me so much getting better with being a Toon Link main.
 

Golden Sun

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Its pretty unusual how Link and Toon Link's bairs don't kill at high percents(well, Toon Link's does but at a higher percent),
Fair is PERFECT for when your landing and you time it right, usually I just spam it offstage to get people off,

Also, does this happen to anyone else? when I throw out a boomerang or a bomb, I usually randomly throw it and when I come and hit or grab them and backthrow, or any throw, the item comes back and hits them, like a combo that you knew it was gonna happen and you planned on it all along but you did it when you least expected it lmao

Im also a little afraid of Toon Link players, I love it when people use him, but when I go up against another Toon Link, I get nervous that the other Toon Link player is way better and that I "suck" at him.
 
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Cyre

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I'm not sure that I see much of a question going on in that post @ Golden Sun Golden Sun . I believe this would be better suited for the social thread.

Toon Link's dair is a terrible move to throw out in most situations and I wouldn't count on the move ever getting you some KOs.

Throwing a boomerang and having it come back in time for a grab happens to me all the time. I'd never complain about that extra damage.

Appropriate.

Fighting a TL ditto is very annoying to say the least. I find it to be a bad MU for both players. I can't forget to mention boring depending on if it's against a friend or playing some For Glory.
 

Golden Sun

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I'm not sure that I see much of a question going on in that post @ Golden Sun Golden Sun . I believe this would be better suited for the social thread.

Toon Link's dair is a terrible move to throw out in most situations and I wouldn't count on the move ever getting you some KOs.

Throwing a boomerang and having it come back in time for a grab happens to me all the time. I'd never complain about that extra damage.

Appropriate.

Fighting a TL ditto is very annoying to say the least. I find it to be a bad MU for both players. I can't forget to mention boring depending on if it's against a friend or playing some For Glory.
Thanks for reminding me, also, a bomb throw down to dair is actually a pretty good combo(not really a combo..) where there are 3 chances of something happening,

1.the bomb can hit the opponent and the dair can spike him down, 2X the damage
2.the bomb hits the ground while you dair right after, leaving you hitting the bomb and blasting right up so the opponent might do a attack but you'll be blown away from the bomb
3.the bomb can blast on the ground while the smoke surrounds you while doing the dair, difficult to see what your move is going to be, maybe a fsmash but the peosple wont see whats happening since the smoke actually stays there for awhile, giving you enough time to do a smash, etc.
 

Zediwonder

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As someone who dairs way too much with TL I can say that it's rarely ever a good idea to use it, even if it hits the hits are techable and you'll probably be punished if they tech the 2nd hit, the windbox on it isn't effective enough most of the time to help with the slow recovery animation afterwards and depending on who you're versing it can be used against you to make you spike yourself off the stage (Palutena reflect shenanigans).

The bombs makes it safer but you're better off just using the bomb and seeing what other move you can use if you're throwing it straight down.
 

GeekModeOffset

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Hello everyone!

I bought Smash 4 a month ago, but have played Melee, 64, and Brawl. Since Brawl my favorite character has been Toon Link. I think I am fairly decent with him, but I have no way to confirm this since I do not attend tournaments. I win a sizable majority of my online matches, and even read and practiced some ATs from Fox is Openly D-something from Brawl.
I just got done playing FG on Smash 4 and played somewhere in the ballpark of 50 matches (winning only 3). I love Toon Link, and think he is a great character, but I can't help finding myself getting a bit down about some of his matchups. My friends say I am good with him, but that can't be because Ive been getting rekt lately. I tried doing a search for some things I could use to help me practice, but TL doesnt seem to be very popular making it hard to find decent info on him.

Any information or things I could be learning because I feel stuck, and I can feel the salt swelling up inside me. lol
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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Apologies for the late reply. I was delayed. I'm currently working with Dr. Artemis to put together a directory which will contain plenty of useful sources of information that will help a lot. We'll make sure you hear about it when it's done.
It is a particular shame that we don't yet have a guide that I've deemed to be worthy of a sticky, so unfortunately all the information is a bit scattered.

In the mean time, are there any specific problem areas you need help with? What exactly do you feel you are struggling with? The more specific the better.
 

GeekModeOffset

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A directory sounds great!

Ah yes specifics, of course.

In no particular order here are some difficulties I am having playing Toon Link in Smash 4.

1. Most of my kills and juggles come when opponents are off the ground, but I have a very difficult time getting them to flinch since a lot of my bombs and arrows are just get shielded. Against weaker players this is not a big deal, but it seems anyone who knows how to shield spaces me out and makes it difficult for me to find room to breathe.

2. I am finding it difficult to land zair, and the situations that it seems good to use are few. My best times are after returning boomerang hits, but it seems harder to do since Brawl.

3. Samus and Wii Fit Trainer always seem to give me a really hard time because of their charge shots, and ability to space my punish smashes with their rolls.
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

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1. If the opponent is waiting and expecting to shield your projectiles, this tells me that you need to mix up your spam a bit. If they're just sitting in their shield, let them. Sometimes it's best to simply hold onto that Bomb for half a second and let them wear down their shield while they wait for it to be thrown at them. Sometimes it's best to throw the Boomerang over them so that it doesn't hit their shield but will set up a frame trap on its return. Sometimes instead of shooting that arrow you should charge it and let them sit there and sweat if they are far enough away. Sometimes it's best to throw the Bomb up if it would just be wasted by throwing it at them. Eventually they'll have to mix it up themselves and your regular options will become more viable again.

2. Zair isn't nearly as good in this game (for many reasons). I rarely use it. It's become more of a poking tool at long range when you know they are currently unable to close the distance. This is a different game and it needs to be treated differently. You will find that playing Toon, coming from maining him in Brawl, is going to be all about adapting to his new tools and changing the way you play.

3. If you're having difficulty with charge shots, that tells me you need to be more adaptable and flexible in your spam. What I mean is that often when we spam we get into habits, habits such always throwing a boomerang after a bomb or shooting an arrow after a boomerang etc. What this can lead to is an idea in your head that dictates what you're going to do next and has nothing to do with what is going on around you or what the opponent is doing. So you throw your boomerang, you visually see that a charge shot is fired or can tell that now would be a good time for them to fire it, but instead of reacting to it and adapting your spam accordingly, you fire that arrow because that was the plan and the charge shot goes right through it and hits you. Adapt and change; this is the key.
As for you punishes being beaten by rolls, I've written on how to deal with rolling before, but your specific scenario sounds like it would benefit more form reading this http://smashboards.com/threads/how-to-deal-with-a-rolling-opponent.375075/
It's just a matter of actively thinking about and applying those ideas while you play. At first you'll actually play worse because you'll be so distracted by trying to change habits and try new ways to punish, but eventually the new and better playstyle will become more natural and mechanical leaving you to focus on other things and you'll be way better off in the long run.
 

GeekModeOffset

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Thanks for the tips!

I will try doing what you suggest, and see what kind of difference it makes. I also started saving all of my losing matches and watching them so I can see what kind of blunders I appear to be making. I might make a list of them, and see if it's a common habit that other people can relate to as well.

You are right about the predictability though. The better players likely pick up on it right away. I *think* I am mixing things up, but it never hurts see what I am doing wrong and what I can improve on.

Oh, and thanks for the Brawl ATs!
 

GeekModeOffset

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Messages
15
NNID
Hyper2386
Oh I didn't know that! Man I should really lurk more before posting! lol I'mma go check it out.

I don't really have anything to use to record my matches, but maybe I can set something up.
 

Noso

Hilarious words
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Dec 30, 2014
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133
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Florida
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spiritenemy
At the risk of sounding too noobish, I'm having a problem with little macs who rush across the stage usually bouncing me from one side to another, is there any advice that you all can give me to help with this?
 
Joined
Dec 28, 2014
Messages
25
At the risk of sounding too noobish, I'm having a problem with little macs who rush across the stage usually bouncing me from one side to another, is there any advice that you all can give me to help with this?
I for one grab them while they dash, or try and get them with all the projectiles, if you're coming back from off-stage I recommend grabbing a bomb and throwing it down on them, my friend used to main Little Mac and do the same thing, so I know what I'm talking about because I experienced the same issue
 

GeekModeOffset

Smash Rookie
Joined
Dec 30, 2012
Messages
15
NNID
Hyper2386
At the risk of sounding too noobish, I'm having a problem with little macs who rush across the stage usually bouncing me from one side to another, is there any advice that you all can give me to help with this?
It really depends on what types of moves these Little Macs are using, however my strategy is to be about a half roll from the end of the stage and bait them into attacking your shield > grab and bthrow off-stage. I usually just hold on to my bombs in LM fights because they help me escape his jabs, and if he is not close I simply toss them up.

Try not to get caught up in his rhythm though. I never chase him much since he has to come to me sometime. Another thing I notice is that he seems to be usmash fodder. Sometimes I get about three regular upsmashes and a charged one because they think they will get a counter on the 4th hit.
 
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