Q&A The Pirate's Charm - READ BEFORE POSTING - The Toon Board Rules / Q&A Thread

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

The Pirate's Charm

"I can see what you're doing through this stone, and obviously you can hear me through it."


-First Post: Toon Board Rules
-Second Post: Q/A Thread


Toon Board Rules

Here on the Toon boards we're pretty chill, but that doesn't mean you can just do anything. I'd link you to the global rules but let's be honest, who's going to read that? So here's the relevant stuff that is likely to apply to you.

1. Double posting is like double dipping. It's unsanitary and I won't stand for it. When you make a post, just make one post and end it. If you have anything more to say but no-one has replied since then, you can use the edit button. If you accidentally double post for any reason, feel free to let me know or edit your post with a 'whoops ... (etc.)' and I'll fix it for you. [The exceptions to the rule is for topic creators who wish to change the topic or make some announcement, or for substantial posts made at least a day after the one before.]

2. Creating pointless threads is frowned upon as it means I have to find the time and effort to lock it or merge it with the thread it should have been posted in in the first place. Check first to see if there is another thread that you could make your post in. If you're not sure whether your thread would count as 'pointless', feel free to ask me in a private message or better still, ask in this thread.

3. Do not post spam, except maybe in the social thread where being off topic is kind of impossible. Making off-topic or irrelevant posts stifles serious discussion and for this reason it is discouraged.

4. Make informed posts where possible. It's ok to ask questions for stuff if you don't know where to find the answers, but there is a certain level of presumed knowledge that people should bring to the table. Start by reading through the threads at the top of the Toon boards and use the smash dictionary to look up commonly used words that you don't understand.

5. I'd say 'No trolling or flaming' but there never is any in the Toon boards.

The rest really isn't likely to come up and if it does I'll let you know.


If you want to improve your character or your own personal playstyle, you've come to the right forums. You'll find that everyone here is very helpful, very knowledgeable, and above all very nice. It's entirely up to you to decide how much you want to make use of this. My advice would be to get reading and then get engaged in some serious discussion with us. I'll see you out there.

 

[Deleted member]

Ask any questions you have about Toon Link in Smash 4 here!

Rules:
1. Ask your questions here, don't make a new thread for them.
2. Read the typical questions before asking a question.
3. Just like everywhere else on Smash Boards, keep your questions relevant. This thread is for asking questions about Toon Link in Smash 4, and only Toon Link in Smash 4.



Typical Questions


The Basics
Q: "What are Toon Link's best KO moves?"
A: His best KO moves are usmash, bthrow, fair, bair, and uair. Fsmash is also really good if you're able to land it.

Q: "Should I keep tap jump on or off?"
A: It's generally personal preference, but with Toon Link it's best to keep it off. Toon Link's utilt is pretty important in a lot of match-ups, and tap jump will only make it harder to pull it off. Overall, there's no benefit to Toon Link to keeping it on, so having tap jump on will only cause you unnecessary frustration.

Q: "Where can I find Toon Link's frame data?"/"What are Toon Link's fastest attacks?" etc.
A: You can find the answer to those questions here.

Q: "What does 'X' mean?"
A: Check The Smash Dictionary. Over the years, the Smash community has developed our own language to talk about things. Before even attempting to read other threads, open this up so you can quickly search for the meaning of any word you come across that you don't understand.



The Toon Link Board

Q: "Where do I find the info for the Toon Link Skype group?"
A: It's in the OP (original post) on the social thread, in light blue text so it stands out.

Q: "I think I found a new Toon Link trick!"
A: Before posting about it, check the second post on this thread to make sure it isn't known already. If you don't see it there then post about it on that thread instead of making a new topic.

Q: "Where can I find a list of Toon Link's ATs and tricks?"
A: Again, check the second post on the ATs thread. The second post of the thread contains a complete list of Toon Link's current advanced techniques. There is a lot of important information that can only be found right here, so check it out. Even if you're coming from Brawl and think you know them, there are many subtle changes that have been noted, so be sure to read it all.

Q: "Where can I find a good guide for Toon Link?"
A: This is the old Brawl Toon Link guide, which will have to do for now since the guide for Toon Link in Smash 4 is under construction. Many of the more general ideas still apply.



Miscellaneous

Q: "Toon Link is a clone!"
A: That is not a question.

Q: "Which Legend of Zelda game is Toon Link from?"
A: He's from Wind Waker and Phantom Hourglass, though other Zelda games (Minish Cap, Four Swords, Spirit Tracks, etc.) use his design or a similar one.

 

[lijero13ss]

Well i would like to add some other questions for those who wish to main Toon Link:

Q: "How should we use Toon Link?"
A: Toon Link is a great camping character. Spam all of his projectiles while keeping away from opponents. Follow up with Boomerang and Bomb hits with some SH Fairs, Nairs, etc.

Q: "What are his KO moves?"
A: Best ones are: Usmash, Fsmash, Bthrow

 

[Deleted member]

Well i would like to add some other questions for those who wish to main Toon Link:

Q: "How should we use Toon Link?"
A: Toon Link is a great camping character. Spam all of his projectiles while keeping away from opponents. Follow up with Boomerang and Bomb hits with some SH Fairs, Nairs, etc.

Q: "What are his KO moves?"
A: Best ones are: Usmash, Fsmash, Bthrow

I'll add the first one when I get on a computer. Thanks! As for the second one, fsmash is a terrible move and there's no reason to ever use it. It's way too slow and the second hit can be shielded or spot-dodged if the first hit doesn't send the opponent flying far enough away for the second hit to not be able to get them. Usmash, bthrow, and his aerials except nair and zair are his best kill moves. But yeah, I'll add that when I get on a computer.

 

[lijero13ss]

I'll add the first one when I get on a computer. Thanks! As for the second one, fsmash is a terrible move and there's no reason to ever use it. It's way too slow and the second hit can be shielded or spot-dodged if the first hit doesn't send the opponent flying far enough away for the second hit to not be able to get them. Usmash, bthrow, and his aerials except nair and zair are his best kill moves. But yeah, I'll add that when I get on a computer.

Aww and here i thought I was good with Fsmash. Guess i've been finding noobish players on For Glory XD

 

[Fangblade]

I disagree, Fsmash kills the earliest out of all his moves and is good for mind-games. It's easily punishable if you have a habit of using the 2nd hit every time though.

 

[Deleted member]

Noob question time. Does anyone have any videos of JC bomb throw being used effectively? I've messed around with it in training mode, and maybe I'm doing something wrong here or something, but I can't even tell if TL is sliding or not. If he is, the sliding looks really small, so I'm not sure how I would incorporate that into my gameplay. I read that JC bomb throws are done by pressing the jump button then immediately throwing a bomb, and I got the idea that if you didn't jump that either means you did it right or you forgot to press the jump button. I know I'm pressing the jump button, so I'm a little confused as to why I'm not seeing any difference. Am I doing something wrong?

 

[Fangblade]

Here's a question: Is Dair even worth the risk of ever using?
In what cases should I use Dair?

 

[Yackabean]

Q: Is Toon Link better than Link?
A:

Spoiler

 

[Fangblade]

Noob question time. Does anyone have any videos of JC bomb throw being used effectively? I've messed around with it in training mode, and maybe I'm doing something wrong here or something, but I can't even tell if TL is sliding or not. If he is, the sliding looks really small, so I'm not sure how I would incorporate that into my gameplay. I read that JC bomb throws are done by pressing the jump button then immediately throwing a bomb, and I got the idea that if you didn't jump that either means you did it right or you forgot to press the jump button. I know I'm pressing the jump button, so I'm a little confused as to why I'm not seeing any difference. Am I doing something wrong?

How to JC throw: Dash in any direction, then press A immediately after pressing the jump button.

Realistically the only way you're going to pull this off is by sliding your thumb from X>A as fast as possible. Have you seen videos of Glide Tossing in action in Brawl? Mostly used by Diddy/ZSS, this is basically a scaled down version of that. It puts you a couple character spaces in either direction. You can land Fair or Usmash easier with this, since you don't have to go through the extra steps of dashing towards your opponent after a bomb throw to make sure it lands. You can also throw the bomb the opposite way that you're dashing, it's a tool used for spacing.

 

[Deleted member]

Here's a question: Is Dair even worth the risk of ever using?
In what cases should I use Dair?

Dair is really good for punishing most characters when they're trying to juggle you. It's also possible to change the direction you're falling in after you hit someone, so if you somehow end up directly above someone while only slightly offstage, you can use dair then move TL back to the stage. You probably won't ever come across a time where the second one will ever be a valid option, though.

How to JC throw: Dash in any direction, then press A immediately after pressing the jump button.

Realistically the only way you're going to pull this off is by sliding your thumb from X>A as fast as possible. Have you seen videos of Glide Tossing in action in Brawl? Mostly used by Diddy/ZSS, this is basically a scaled down version of that. It puts you a couple character spaces in either direction. You can land Fair or Usmash easier with this, since you don't have to go through the extra steps of dashing towards your opponent after a bomb throw to make sure it lands. You can also throw the bomb the opposite way that you're dashing, it's a tool used for spacing.

I used to play with a few Diddy mains in Brawl, and would often pick up banana peels and glide toss with them, so I know what glide tossing looks like but I still don't see any sliding here. I'm really confused... Are other people ever getting TL just doing a normal bomb throw instead of sliding while throwing a bomb? I'm making sure to press the jump button first, and have accidentally jumped a bunch of times because of it, so I know that's not the issue.
Edit: I forgot to mention, yes I've been trying to do it out of a dash.

 

[Fangblade]

Dair is really good for punishing most characters when they're trying to juggle you. It's also possible to change the direction you're falling in after you hit someone, so if you somehow end up directly above someone while only slightly offstage, you can use dair then move TL back to the stage. You probably won't ever come across a time where the second one will ever be a valid option, though.


I used to play with a few Diddy mains in Brawl, and would often pick up banana peels and glide toss with them, so I know what glide tossing looks like but I still don't see any sliding here. I'm really confused... Are other people ever getting TL just doing a normal bomb throw instead of sliding while throwing a bomb? I'm making sure to press the jump button first, and have accidentally jumped a bunch of times because of it, so I know that's not the issue.
Edit: I forgot to mention, yes I've been trying to do it out of a dash.

This kid does it in the beginning of his video. You have to do it really quickly.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GSU0FzdvHtE

 

[Zeko]

Do you guys think toon link will be banned in SSBU? I honestly started picking him up recently and absolutely love him. I have rarely lost any glory matches. Granted, I spam my projectiles a lot and capitalize when I can on moves. This feels like how he should be played though, am I right?

 

[Deleted member]

Do you guys think toon link will be banned in SSBU? I honestly started picking him up recently and absolutely love him. I have rarely lost any glory matches. Granted, I spam my projectiles a lot and capitalize when I can on moves. This feels like how he should be played though, am I right?

Lol. Yeah, that's how you should be playing him. His moveset and overall traits are amazing for camping, and terrible for eveyrthing else.

 

[Yukiwarashi]

Man, haven't posted in years...
I've looked in this forum, but I haven't seen much discussion about it. Are there any recommended secondaries for Toon Link at the moment? Right now I've been using Lucina and Dark Pit but in terms of helping Toon Link with his matchups I have no idea if they actually do help him out.

 

[lijero13ss]

Man, haven't posted in years...
I've looked in this forum, but I haven't seen much discussion about it. Are there any recommended secondaries for Toon Link at the moment? Right now I've been using Lucina and Dark Pit but in terms of helping Toon Link with his matchups I have no idea if they actually do help him out.

Personally I found Luigi or ROB to be fantastic secondaries. Luigi is insane with his D Throw > Anything strings.

 

[lijero13ss]

Dair is really good for punishing most characters when they're trying to juggle you. It's also possible to change the direction you're falling in after you hit someone, so if you somehow end up directly above someone while only slightly offstage, you can use dair then move TL back to the stage. You probably won't ever come across a time where the second one will ever be a valid option, though.


I used to play with a few Diddy mains in Brawl, and would often pick up banana peels and glide toss with them, so I know what glide tossing looks like but I still don't see any sliding here. I'm really confused... Are other people ever getting TL just doing a normal bomb throw instead of sliding while throwing a bomb? I'm making sure to press the jump button first, and have accidentally jumped a bunch of times because of it, so I know that's not the issue.
Edit: I forgot to mention, yes I've been trying to do it out of a dash.

I personally find it a bit harder in For Glory only because of the online lag. Even if there seems to be none, there usually is a tiny tiny bit of lag and that can ruin the JC Bomb Throw. You'll usually notice him slide a little if you do it right. Unfortunately, i haven't found too much use of it since any good player that has a Toon Link running at you with a bomb already knows you're gonna throw it at him.

You gotta fake him out, throw some boomeragns and arrows first, then use it. Don't just pull out your bomb and run at him kamikaze style, cause they will just Shield/Roll/Spot Dodge

 

[Deleted member]

Man, haven't posted in years...
I've looked in this forum, but I haven't seen much discussion about it. Are there any recommended secondaries for Toon Link at the moment? Right now I've been using Lucina and Dark Pit but in terms of helping Toon Link with his matchups I have no idea if they actually do help him out.

My guess would be that Marth would be good. He seems like he could help cover TL's bad match-ups. Wasn't Marth also a recommended secondary for TL in Brawl, too? I don't see why that would've changed. But yeah, I think the game will probably need to be out for a bit longer before this question could be answered better.

I personally find it a bit harder in For Glory only because of the online lag. Even if there seems to be none, there usually is a tiny tiny bit of lag and that can ruin the JC Bomb Throw. You'll usually notice him slide a little if you do it right. Unfortunately, i haven't found too much use of it since any good player that has a Toon Link running at you with a bomb already knows you're gonna throw it at him.

You gotta fake him out, throw some boomeragns and arrows first, then use it. Don't just pull out your bomb and run at him kamikaze style, cause they will just Shield/Roll/Spot Dodge

Yeah, JC bomb throw does seem like it could be a bit hard to pull off. I watched the video Fangblade posted, and it looks like I'm doing it right, but the slide is so miniscule (if there even is any; I still don't see any different between JCBT and a normal blomb throw), plus anyone with a brain would see the throw coming, and it seems really useless. Though, I wonder if it could be good for baiting a shield then grabbing. If the opponent rolls or spot dodges instead of shielding you could probably just punish it with an fsmash or something. Bomb fakeout > JCBT might also work maybe once if you see an opportunity.

 

[lijero13ss]

My guess would be that Marth would be good. He seems like he could help cover TL's bad match-ups. Wasn't Marth also a recommended secondary for TL in Brawl, too? I don't see why that would've changed. But yeah, I think the game will probably need to be out for a bit longer before this question could be answered better.


Yeah, JC bomb throw does seem like it could be a bit hard to pull off. I watched the video Fangblade posted, and it looks like I'm doing it right, but the slide is so miniscule (if there even is any; I still don't see any different between JCBT and a normal blomb throw), plus anyone with a brain would see the throw coming, and it seems really useless. Though, I wonder if it could be good for baiting a shield then grabbing. If the opponent rolls or spot dodges instead of shielding you could probably just punish it with an fsmash or something. Bomb fakeout > JCBT might also work maybe once if you see an opportunity.

Yeah whenever i try to implement it in For Glory, players tend to shield instead of rolling or spot dodging. If they shield, yes, you can then just grab them, BUT, the bomb you throw bounced off their shield, and if you don't throw the opponent asap, then the bomb will blow up on you both. So it seems like a double edged sword.

Meanwhile if they spot dodge, you can still SH Nair them, which is good

Now, if they shield, then roll backwards, you are going to get punished for missing your grab. This time, i think if you notice your opponent rolling, then do JCBT > Dash predicting the roll > Usmash/grab/etc. Basically, bait them into a roll so you can punish them. I think that's how JCBT should be used, to bait them into shielding/rolling

 

[Xmark]

So I was watching sky's stream yesterday and there was this TL player called Zan, he did this weird ass Zair tech. His hookshot would catch the ledge but instead of zipping straight to the ledge, he withdrew the hookshot and threw a bomb, slightly keeping his momentum for the swing. After, he re-teathered the ledge. I know you can air dodge zair to to keep the bomb but I didn't know about the teather canceling. I see alot of potential for this tech. Can somebody test this out in the 3ds version, I dont have the game.

 

[lijero13ss]

So I was watching sky's stream yesterday and there was this TL player called Zan, he did this weird *** Zair tech. His hookshot would catch the ledge but instead of zipping straight to the ledge, he withdrew the hookshot and threw a bomb, slightly keeping his momentum for the swing. After, he re-teathered the ledge. I know you can air dodge zair to to keep the bomb but I didn't know about the teather canceling. I see alot of potential for this tech. Can somebody test this out in the 3ds version, I dont have the game.

You tether cancel by pushing down on the control stick

As soon as Tink grabs the ledge with his tether, you press down and it will retreat back to you

 

[Yackabean]

Zan's Toon Link was pretty good from what I saw and his Ganon was a real treat to watch. Saw him miss a lot of opportunities to do stuff but man one of the best Toon Link's I've seen on any American stream so far so props to Zan the man!

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

@Dr. Artemis: You'll know you've done the JC Throw properly when you are able to throw the bomb up, down, or backwards out of a dash/run. The slide isn't exactly the important part and will likely be much shorter than expected. The important part is the fact that it gives you the aforementioned options (allowing you to do things like dash away from the opponent and throw a bomb back at them) and the fact that there is less lag on a JC throw (note the IASA frames) compared to a dash throw, so doing a JC Throw forwards will always be better than a normal dash throw.

 

[Deleted member]

So does everyone agree Zan is the best TL right now? Everyone says he is. Also, I think I've played almost everyone who could possibly fit that spot while on a good and almost lagless wifi connection, and imo none of them came very close to Zan. But yeah, I'll go ahead and add Zan as being the best TL to the OP unless someone disagrees.

 

[Scamper52596]

So does everyone agree Zan is the best TL right now? I think I've played almost everyone who could possibly fit that spot while on a good and almost lagless wifi connection, and imo none of them came very close to Zan. But yeah, I'll go ahead and add Zan as being the best TL to the OP unless someone disagrees.

Is there anywhere I could find a video of Zan playing as Toon Link? I've been looking for good Toon Link players to watch on YouTube, but no luck. I would like to see some Wii U footage while we're at it. Could you, or anyone, show me where I could watch these, or is it still too early? Thanks in advance.

 

[Deleted member]

Is there anywhere I could find a video of Zan playing as Toon Link? I've been looking for good Toon Link players to watch on YouTube, but no luck. I would like to see some Wii U footage while we're at it. Could you, or anyone, show me where I could watch these, or is it still too early? Thanks in advance.

I would've saved some replays when I played him if my Wii U could read SD cards and if I had something to record the replays with. As for Wii U footage, do you mean any old Wii U footage with a TL, or Wii U footage with Zan or some other really good TL? I've played on stream on the Wii U version at a tournament at least once, so I could try digging that up if you want, but I'm not very good lol. As for Wii U footage of good TL players, I still have yet to find any SSB4 footage whatsoever of them, including Wii U footage.

 

[Deleted member]

Is there anywhere I could find a video of Zan playing as Toon Link? I've been looking for good Toon Link players to watch on YouTube, but no luck. I would like to see some Wii U footage while we're at it. Could you, or anyone, show me where I could watch these, or is it still too early? Thanks in advance.

I believe there'll be vids up of the wifi tournament yesterday on Edmontongaming's stream. I beat alphican's little mac and apparently he's Alberta's best player if I'm not mistaken, however it is wifi so keep that in mind. I also had a match in LSF vs BlazerKirby (guess who he used...lol) but I lost game 3 last hit.

I don't think I'm the best TL by any means. Jash/Jerm/Hyuga are probs better

 

[Kami~]

Zan is the best tl by far and anyone who feels differently should take a long ****ing look at their life and ask themself why they dont feel this way. The sad part is zan was playing with gamepad so his full potential wasnt even unlocked in that tourney and if anyone thinks they stand a chance they should play him when he gets one. He also was the best tl in brawl and decimated anyone who got in his way with the legendary combo boomerang to fair

 

[Deleted member]

http://www.twitch.tv/edmontongamers/b/594460547

Should be the first set in this archive vs Lil Mac. I just timed him the **** out cause I don't wanna challenge him on the ground. He cant approach you in the air while your on the platform so...ye

 

[Tsunayoshi]

i love u guys and obv u zan but the **** riding is real LOL

edit:

So does everyone agree Zan is the best TL right now? I think I've played almost everyone who could possibly fit that spot while on a good and almost lagless wifi connection, and imo none of them came very close to Zan. But yeah, I'll go ahead and add Zan as being the best TL to the OP unless someone disagrees.

u didnt played against me bro

and i honestly would like to say a few things but no gonna do so since its funny and i love reading this <3

 

[LinkLuigi]

I got a question. How do I do bair strings? I was watching some bair videos from brawl and they could do two bairs in a single SH. Are bair combos dead?

 

[Tsunayoshi]

I got a question. How do I do bair strings? I was watching some bair videos from brawl and they could do two bairs in a single SH. Are bair combos dead?

mostly yes u can connect 2 but not more cause of the huge landing lag now

 

[Deleted member]

i love u guys and obv u zan but the **** riding is real LOL

It's like this thread somehow went from being a Q&A thread to "The Zan Fan Club Thread", lol.

u didnt played against me bro

"Almost everyone". Plus I've had a few people tell me to add an "FAQ" saying Zan is the best TL.

I got a question. How do I do bair strings? I was watching some bair videos from brawl and they could do two bairs in a single SH. Are bair combos dead?

Unfortunately they're gone in SSB4. TL's bair is too slow and has too much landing lag for bair strings now.

 

[Tsunayoshi]

It's like this thread somehow went from being a Q&A thread to "The Zan Fan Club Thread", lol.


"Almost everyone". Plus I've had a few people tell me to add an "FAQ" saying Zan is the best TL.

zan is a cool guy and deserves it tho so idm either

just thinking that the newcommers shouldnt instantly judge about "whos the best" after 1 wifi tournament lol

 

[Deleted member]

zan is a cool guy and deserves it tho so idm either

just thinking that the newcommers shouldnt instantly judge about "whos the best" after 1 wifi tournament lol

Yeah, seriously. Wifi doesnt mean much so I dont really think "Best TL" is an appropriate title for anyone. Its only a week into Wii U ver...we'll know when the time comes. Offline results are the ones that really matter

 

[Deleted member]

Which stage is better for TL, Battlefield or Yoshi's Island?

 

[Deleted member]

I mean Yoshis isn't on Wii U, but on 3DS imo it depends on the MU. If Rosalina, I'd say Yoshis. If Lil Mac, I'd say BF.

 

[Yackabean]

I'd argue I'm better than Zan, buuuut I don't want to change the thread title to "Yackabean vs Zan Thread"
Plus Artemis you never played me past 1.0.3 update, I don't even think we did play yet to be honest ;D

Aside from all this, I really like Psp's brawl toon link and being the best "wi-fi toon link."
Seriously, people ACTUALLY care about that title?

Also where are Jash, Jerm and Hyuga nowadays? I haven't seen any of them play this game yet?
If Jash picks up this game I have no idea how he will fit. I'd say really good considering bombs are hugely buffed in this game and his bomb play was always what got me in to using Toon Link in his certain playstyle. But not I really have my own unique playstyle from every other Toon Link. I'm very tech heavy with my characters so If I'm not the best, I could guarantee the boards I am the most technical so far

 

[Deleted member]

I got a few people bugging me about adding a best TL player and some of them suggested Zan, but I think I'm just going to leave out anything about a best TL from now on unless someone else ever ends up taking over this thread (which is unlikely). Honestly I think Jash could probably take that spot after he's had the game for longer, anyway (sorry Zan).

I mean Yoshis isn't on Wii U, but on 3DS imo it depends on the MU. If Rosalina, I'd say Yoshis. If Lil Mac, I'd say BF.

So not counting match-ups, they're about the same?

 

[Deleted member]

Aside from all this, I really like Psp's brawl toon link and being the best "wi-fi toon link."

Psp is legendary and exceeds all of our skills caps. He is too great to even speak of. His TL will never be in our reach because he is so far ahead.

Jerm is placing well at his texas tourneys. Also, PJ is someone to look out for.
Hyuga lives in Mexico so I don't really hear much about him, but from what I can assume from his Brawl days he was amazing and he will continue to be amazing. I've heard his TL is really good and he was doing very well on AiB's ladder, but of course it's wifi and cant really say much till we get offline results.

I've heard from Jtails that Jash is using TL, so we'll look out for that as well.