Social The Pichu Social & General Discussion Thread

[DerfMidWest]

You can definitely do that, just remember it has a lot of cooldown.
I use dash attack all the time for that kind of thing though.

 

[the muted smasher]

Idk I really don't care for fox pichu like I used to, I didn't realize how I could have a good time as ics compared to as Pichu, like a fox who will straight up never make any advances but the free ones it's so horrible ly boring for pichu and I rarely grab like I should.

But i might use pichu as a real option vs doc, marth, peach and gannon(I fight gannon as ics in a very dry manner that is more boring than de synce camping) based on mood.

I enjoy pichu sheik more than I do as ics but yeah xD

Just idk if a grab is much better than a shield poke d tilt vs marth if he can escape. When it resets what happened and gives You a nair most the time for an edge guard.

Just having a grab as pichu near the edge is very meh and those match-ups idc about percent as much as positioning

 

[Comet7]

thoughts on up tilt to grab at low-mid%? i think it can work if it can keep people airborne for 13-20 frames and then triggers normal landing lag of 4 frames. i'll try to test this on spacies and falcon in dolphin tomorrow.

i think that if pichu ever gets a solid hit in neutral, it should theoretically almost always lead into a grab. the only questionable situation is if we get the late nair on shield which gives people just enough time to do something. a lot of the things resulting from that can probably be reacted to, but it's problematic.

does up throw ever keep spacies in hitstun until they reach the ground?

Spoiler: i went on training mode to confirm stuff

up tilt to up smash works on fox from ~45% to ~120%
up tilt to up smash works on falcon from ~20% to 130%
falco is probably the same as fox except 5% later

the earliest and latest %'s require a late up tilt and early hit of up smash

up air up smash on fox at 0% - ~90%
up air up smash on falcon at 0% - idk but it's low, around 45%? maybe slightly longer with pivot charged up smash

 

[the muted smasher]

Fox without di can jump out of upair to grab after 60% 55% falco and 20% for falcon

 

[the muted smasher]

But I've given up on understanding combos in this game partly why I play ics the big combos I can do as falco vs falcon are 60%

 

[DerfMidWest]

ICs/Fox is more fun than Pichu/Fox when fox plays correctly, but it's still lame af lololol.
Utilt is awesome though. You can also utilt to ftilt/dtilt to force a knockdown.
Nair too to get people offstage.

 

[Smyers09]

Pichu is my favourite character. The nair gimps ;-;

 

[the muted smasher]

Pichu is just an amazing super aggro low tier with so many mix ups

 

[DerfMidWest]

I don't really think pichu should be that aggro most of the time.
He also has a pretty limited number of mixups compared to better characters.
He has a lot of gimmicky DI traps and stuff, but those don't work more than once against decent players.

 

[the muted smasher]

I don't like gimmicks other than read based ones like side-b being edge canceled hitting them holding the edge or hitting their shield and up-b ing back on past them double crossing them up

 

[Comet7]

spaced down tilt is so good on shield <3

didn't get to practice tech chasing at sss but i still got stuff out of it

 

[ChivalRuse]

Yeah d-tilt is one of my favorite moves. Bair is pretty sick too. I'm still trying to find situations where bair is superior to nair (based on the hitbox placements alone).

 

[the muted smasher]

But guys what are we going to do about global warming?

 

[Comet7]

https://youtu.be/22mE-OfIkBY?t=20m15s

it's time for somebody to tell me why my pichu is bad again

other than me choking my punishes which i already know

i think i should have used more dd down tilt which would probably be safer than nair, seeing as i was caught by an up tilt for being too hasty with nair.

 

[the muted smasher]

You need to think tinier.

I'm a firm believer that being able to be soaked in just the raw mirco details is pichu, s only hope vs ffers, and from the first movement off the platform You didn't command any control/flow of the match, which You can't get till You nair/upair through fox's attacks with first, unless he's campy which every fox should else Pichu has really solid tools to pick him apart.

Your feet on Your Nair can beat out fox's nair like Your upair can

Jc grab

Sh upair waveland is good

Sh upair 2nd jump upair
Full jump upair low nair and etc.
All wierd at dealing with while on a platform shielding

Think about how You want to punish them in each case

 

[CnB | Chandy]

http://imgur.com/a/v1Umh

If you guys are having a hard time nailing your tech chases on reaction, these gifs show the first five frames of each of Fox's three tech options in very high detail. When I tech chase with dthrow, I look at the different ways Fox's feet move for each option, as that is the most visually distinct aspect of each animation. If you can get comfortable with recognizing these different animations quickly, sharpening your reaction speed is the only thing between you and getting lots of guaranteed % on not only Fox/Falco but much of the cast as well.

 

[Kawaii-Kun]

http://imgur.com/a/v1Umh

If you guys are having a hard time nailing your tech chases on reaction, these gifs show the first five frames of each of Fox's three tech options in very high detail. When I tech chase with dthrow, I look at the different ways Fox's feet move for each option, as that is the most visually distinct aspect of each animation. If you can get comfortable with recognizing these different animations quickly, sharpening your reaction speed is the only thing between you and getting lots of guaranteed % on not only Fox/Falco but much of the cast as well.

Before you know it, Pichu will have his own 20GX shenanigans.

 

[DerfMidWest]

spaced down tilt is so good on shield <3

didn't get to practice tech chasing at sss but i still got stuff out of it

I love dtilt. I do it a lot on shields, but I think a lot of characters can just do like wd in place->jab to punish it. You can get away with dtilt->dash away a lot of the time though.

Also ill watch your little set next time I get to the library or something

 

[the muted smasher]

Pichu 20xx stuff is based around dding and nair, just no one is good enough at it yet

 

[the muted smasher]

I nearly beat a peach player in my pools as ics and I went pichu match 2 on fd so If I won he wouldn't take me there again and I needed a change.


I got train wreaked down to my last stock and I made the biggest mental comeback I've ever done in my life. I 3 stocked at peach and he was down to his last stock high percents fearing an up smash and I lost from a random nair.

I really think pichu is better vs peach sometimes because every team I fought that day had a peach in it and it was the only time I pulled out my pichu besides vs marths

 

[DerfMidWest]

Pichu 20xx stuff is based around dding and nair, just no one is good enough at it yet

Don't forget reaction tech chasing and platform camping.

As for pichu vs peach, I don't think the mu is very good at all once peach understands it. But pichu is really fast, which can give her a bit of trouble.

On a semi-related note, against peach, if she is floating, and you have some space, sometimes it's good to shoot a jolt on the ground if she's low, and it bounces up into her.
This will let her know floating low is bad, so she'll go high, which gives you free uairs if you can get under her in time.

Also, I think FD is probably Pichu's worst stage in the mu, although FoD might be pretty bad too, I just love that stage.

But generally, you want platforms and room to move around.

I think dreamland is actually really good (respectively) in the mu because it gives pichu a lot of room to work with, a nice top platform to run to, and higher side platforms that peach has to go a little higher to cover, which gives you room to get under her.
You don't get kills quickly, but in that mu, the goal isn't to kill quickly but to keep poking and running away until you are able to get a kill. Takes a long time, but I think it's pichu's best bet.

Right now, I think battlefield is probably the second best stage in the matchup, and generally pichu's best stage, I like having the extra ground space dreamland offers, but the platform heights/positions on battlefield are great for mobility and you can get kills a little earlier, which is a nice little bonus, although not the primary focus.

 

[the muted smasher]

Low floating? Fc nair oos or combo are the only low floats peach should do.

Just pichu can stuff out a fair coming down on him a bit better than fox in terms of still approaching , like his sh upair or nair hitting above him.

I really don't care for platforms as pichu even vs marth because it makes it so much easier to juggle pichu because You can't up b around them or 2nd jump back thunder nearly as good as on fd. And I know there is next to no one pichu can can out platform or make as much milage out of. They are really fun just bleh

 

[Comet7]

i'd think pichu could agility, shield drop, or wavedash out of shield well if he manages to land, which is the hard part but it's doable.

 

[CnB | Chandy]

Shield drop is very useful for Pichu, just like Pikachu. Shield drop uair is a good way to start juggles and platform tech chases, and shield drop nair is an excellent tool for setting up edgeguards if utilized correctly. One of Pichu's greatest weaknesses is his inability to proactively create openings, so using reactive, defensive tools to start punishes like dash dancing and platform camping is something you have to master. Shield dropping is another one of these reactive tools, so you need to master it as well.

 

[Comet7]

i already knew about shield dropping and its applications. for anybody new to pi(ka)chu or anyone, ^that is a great tl;dr of why shield dropping is great. it is especially great against marths who think they can up tilt / up air / whatever your sheild with impunity.

 

[the muted smasher]

Wd up tilt is still great as marth, not even getting into marth being able to sh fair upair and cc or side-b mix up(the timing can be delayed to hit You as You try to punish it)

It's a lot easier to deal with than to be able to apply. Just when no one has mastered all the important details of approaching with and following up nair, it sounds like really underwhelming meta in the sense You have a bad character doing anti meta that he doesn't shine at

 

[DerfMidWest]

Low floating? Fc nair oos or combo are the only low floats peach should do.

Just pichu can stuff out a fair coming down on him a bit better than fox in terms of still approaching , like his sh upair or nair hitting above him.

I really don't care for platforms as pichu even vs marth because it makes it so much easier to juggle pichu because You can't up b around them or 2nd jump back thunder nearly as good as on fd. And I know there is next to no one pichu can can out platform or make as much milage out of. They are really fun just bleh

I'm not talking about on the ground low. I'm talking about in the air, but bellow platform height. In between low and mid. Peach's will do this a lot because if they go too high they get uaired.
Also remember Peach's fair has a lot of horizontal range, if they are spaced correctly, you can't uair them that easily.

As far as platforms vs marth, you want platforms vs everyone.
Platforms are super important for pichu. Being able to shield drop fast and consistently out of shieldstun is super important.

Wd up tilt is still great as marth, not even getting into marth being able to sh fair upair and cc or side-b mix up(the timing can be delayed to hit You as You try to punish it)

It's a lot easier to deal with than to be able to apply. Just when no one has mastered all the important details of approaching with and following up nair, it sounds like really underwhelming meta in the sense You have a bad character doing anti meta that he doesn't shine at

I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about here, please clarify that.

 

[the muted smasher]

I'm just saying marth has a wide pool of options vs platforms

But i never platform camp other than to get down

 

[Comet7]

shield drop makes marth have to think about shield pressure. still awful to be over marth since he can just sit under you and kill you by staring.

 

[the muted smasher]

Wreakless forward wreakless forward never ever Stop nature favors the bold

 

[Comet7]

http://smashboards.com/threads/aerial-interrupt-fairs-on-battlefield-tech.415906/#post-20044139

not sure how useful this could be, if at all, but it's there.

 

[the muted smasher]

Nair grab a shield is thing

 

[Comet7]

yeah, it does look weird and situational. the only use would be when we want to have fair's big hitbox and (lack of) knockback.

 

[the muted smasher]

Thing is it is out classed by dair in every way if You wanted that

Also been playing around with option coverage. If You can't punish sheiks rolls on reaction when You sh at them You need to step up Your reactive play

 

[Comet7]

the hitboxes are similar, so i'm not sure which is better. i have to wonder about how good edge canceling them is, since i want to play around with edge cancel AI nair.

i usually guess about what people want to do next for stuff like that but reactive play is better so i shoul dtry that

 

[the muted smasher]

Running sh

Reaction point 1
Pull back pre peak empty/waveland can be don't on reaction vs some f tilts and rolls

Reaction point 2
Peak of sh Nair to stuff out stuff has to hit frame 4-5 or 5-6 based on if they are coming at an angle also can be used here to hit a grab and hit their roll also 2nd jump dair/pull back jolt or up - b gimmicks

Reaction point 3 pre low nair, aiming ro land frame safe nair/empty or waveland run after roll again 4-5 is amazing because You can safely nair and avoid shine oos and punish everything with grab/ double nair

 

[the muted smasher]

Running sh

Reaction point 1
Pull back pre peak empty/waveland can be done on reaction vs some f tilts and rolls

Reaction point 2
Peak of sh Nair to stuff out stuff has to hit frame 4-5 or 5-6 based on if they are coming at an angle also can be used here to hit a grab and hit their roll also 2nd jump dair/pull back jolt or up - b gimmicks

Reaction point 3 pre low nair, aiming to land frame safe nair/empty or waveland run after roll again 4-5 is amazing because You can safely nair and avoid shine oos and punish everything with grab/ double nair

It's hard to wait for the whole thing sometimes and wait for the right second to nair during a sh

 

[Comet7]

is there a point in pichu's full hop where he goes slower than the start of his double jump? i want to know the fastest way to land onto platforms. i know fox can do it faster with his double jump, and axe does it with pika.

 

[cadentoob]

The way i imagine standard jumps function are that gravity begins to slow down the character's ascent until it transitions to a descent, so the fastest point of rising of any given jump or normal double-jump is at the beginning. Theoretically if Pichu's dj rises the same speed as his fh, then it is optimal to double jump in the exact middle point in height between the two platforms in order to avoid a slower rise of a long fh (if you dj at peak) and the slower rise of a long dj (if you dj too soon) . Of course I am ignoring many small ECB factors and I don't know the comparison of velocity between pichu's fh and dj, so I can't say that I'm absolutely sure. TL;DR: double jump at the midpoint between the platforms to avoid slower rising from either jump

 

[Comet7]

[5:31:04 PM] Comet: what do you think is the best way to go about a situation where somebody is shielding on a platform above you?
[5:31:55 PM] Comet: i'm also wondering how useful edge canceled fair to f tilt on battlefield would be
[5:32:10 PM] Comet: given that an edge canceled nair would lead to the fair
[5:32:50 PM] Comet: I'd do that, but I've noticed that people will just wavedash OoS when I'm in lag
[5:33:38 PM] Comet: I think it's a lot like how Marth's shield pressure is at high level where he has to be really careful
[5:33:54 PM] Comet: or else he gets hit or loses the advantage
[5:34:20 PM] Comet: i'm thinking of trying out the death stare
[5:34:30 PM] Comet: or using the AI nair to grab
[5:35:29 PM] Comet: and this is REALLY theoretical
[5:36:25 PM] Comet: but edge canceled AI nair and then platform warp nair (which autocancels) to grab might work too
[5:38:15 PM] Comet: actually, just counting the frames in my head, the platform warping method would be slower than the first one
[5:39:01 PM] Comet: it might be useful with up air since that can also platform warp
[5:39:12 PM] Comet: and can be spaced

thoughts?