Social The Pichu Social & General Discussion Thread

[Comet7]

i just realized that edge canceled aerial interruot nair is probably +5 or +6 on shield.

 

[the muted smasher]

That sounds really sexy, however think about Your best options like another air move or air dodge. Wavedash landing is 10 frames and other than nair/bair You're quickest air move is like 9 frames and doesn't give You an edge landing nair did other than maybe a 2nd cross up fair trying to cover jump oos and landing to push their shield off.

However what might be possible is nair 2nd jump ai nair however it'd push them off and have to resort to D tilt so why didn't You just do that instead?

 

[Comet7]

Does anybody want to critique my Pichu (or Fox, I wouldn't mind that either)?
https://youtu.be/DTJmG6il_uE
https://youtu.be/VRsH4FRKTVw

 

[Jim Jam Grand Slam]

Hello, I'm VERY new to competitive smash. Looked into it for a year by now, but I'm finally getting openings to enter tournaments for the first time. I main Pichu for starters. Any basic tips in general to help get me started? Thanks. -JimJam

 

[Comet7]

get your basic tech down and think about the neutral game. what does your opponent want. how can you hit the other person? how can you not get hit? how can you trick the other person, and how can the other person be trying to trick you?

 

[Jim Jam Grand Slam]

Okay, thanks. Just wanted some basic advice. I'm just kinda picky with other characters and their movesets/ physics. Pichu by far has been the only character to match my style.

 

[the muted smasher]

Pichu,s level of tech is pretty insane, there are many levels of skill in just his nair alone. Most important thing is to never let Your choice be an excuse for losing

 

[Jim Jam Grand Slam]

Okay. My biggest community problem is people trying to force that to be my little excuse as a way to make me main someone else, but I never budged.

 

[the muted smasher]

I lost said match because I missed a nair timing and ate a knee, if I didn't You'd be tech chased possibly to death.

The realest Pichu johns

 

[Audos]

How is this thread not straight fire all the time? Pichu is the chosen one.

Also I've seen a TON of johns like that. I can't stand it when people play a low tier by their own choice and then act like they'd be better playing a spacie or marth or any other top tier. Every character has intricacies that make the uniquely difficult to master, and most of the time the bottom tier characters just build their gameplay more around what they can do well. Pichu's nair is amazing, and like you said, has levels to it. Even if you only have a few good options you can take them a long way. It really just goes to show how little respect people will give each other when they lose, or even worse how little respect the have for themselves'.

 

[Comet7]

if i mess up a waveshine against peach and die from d smash in a lost stock last hit situation i know one of the reasons why i lost. yes you could just be that much better instead but in the end of the day the finishing blow was the flub of the character's bread and butter.

 

[Audos]

Yeah, technical johns bother me as well. Normally if somebody blames an input error on their loss there were like 3 I had made in the same game that cost me something too. I don't see why there is so much importance specifically on if you messed up at the end, especially since being careless and flubbing early can both cost you so much momentum and a lead. :l

 

[the muted smasher]

Pichu if and only if You hit the technical bar is viable in melee and I'm not talking about hax 20XX tech but still.

Pichu still suffers from being able to win match-ups in the neutral by maybe as far as 70-30 but has to do so 5 times a stock where they need a flub/ small call out but once.

And we know a 20-80 match-up can't be made up with a 70-30.

However with 20XX tech I've played some with Pichu could for sure squeeze out some more percents or a few kills on some stages. So the dream lives

 

[Audos]

The dream never dies.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

I never hear tech johns. If someone flubs near the end it's usually obvious - especially with a spacie. Because of that, nothing needs to be said. Or atleast that's how players here are. They realize they haven't trained their hands to be consistent over the course of a certain number of matches and then go back to work on that.

I can imagine how annoying it must be to win a tough (or easy lol) set and the guy uses tech johns. Bleh

 

[the muted smasher]

You literally don't understand how impossible it to get around having flawless tech skill as Pichu nor do You know know what areas I'm referring to.

I dropped Pichu for Ics cause the tech floor was to much for me.

Ai nair needs to be used in combo, You must time the disjoint of nair to stuff out knees/fox nairs. While being able to reactivity pull out if they change.

You need to sdi punish every hit You can.

The whole cast 0-deaths You much harder off of a bad nair on shield than they do against fox that they practice vs.

Pichu literally gets nothing for free

 

[ChivalRuse]

Nah Pichu is dope. People always stress about his glaring weaknesses (weight, self-damages, vulnerable to crouch cancel). He also has some awesome strengths: great anti-air uair. Great dash speed and a low landing lag nair with good knockback. Hard to hit because of his size. Good recovery...

Also, why don't people use u-tilt in neutral? That move has insane disjoint coverage above and in front of Pichu. And his grab range is great. Dash dance grab is so strong with Pichu. His small profile makes his dash dance much stronger than most characters. And his startup dash speed is quick.

And I think his bair is underused. Distorts his hurtbox, has the same lag as a Fox drill, knocks back in ways that can help deal with crouch cancel.

Pichu literally gets nothing for free

Also this isn't really true. Dash dance grab uthrow (uthrow deals 10%) into a guaranteed combo on most of the cast. That's not too shabby.

 

[Comet7]

yes but the juicy stuff comes from linking AI nairs and using them for movement and doing AI nair consistently is really tough. multishines are easier for reference. ChivalRuse

i've used up tilt in nuetral. it's sort of weird. the disjoint is nice and beats about everythijg from the air and some stuff on the ground, but it's easy to DD punish if the other person is doing that (and this will definitely be the situation sometimes), and it puts pichu in place.

bair definitely has obscure uses. there's just usually no reason to use it over nair.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Doesn't bair hitbox reach closer to the ground, which would allow you to hit certain crouching characters that nair would go over (when doing a cross up SH aerial)?

Also, I wasn't implying you should just stand there and u-tilt in place. You could wavedash into it. For example, you could wavedash back and then if the opponent was trying to attack where you just were, the utilt could definitely connect. It's nice that you don't even have to turn around to use it effectively (like Falco or Kirby's utilt).

Basically, I just thing it's a strong option for Pichu. It also combos into bair, nair, or even upsmash at low percents.

 

[Comet7]

up tilt is a niche option. it keeps you in the same spot for 25 frames + however many frames it takes to get into the up tilt animation (2 from crouching from run). it has a mediocre reward most of the time when you could be doing some sort of movement with nair or whatever else. that said, it can be fantastic sometimes. i only think it isn't worth the risk over other options most of the time. it's also much better against some characters than others as with anything (eg: i can't see many applications for it against peach).

i'm not quite sure. i know nair starts out under pichu's butt so it may technically reach just as low but bair does have a consistently low hitbox. i think it's nice for CC sonce pichu actually moves a bit backward in the start, so it can space him horizontally.

it can work but nair usually outclasses it. i forgot to mention that it's nice for unstaling nair though.

 

[ChivalRuse]

25 Frames is actually way better than average for a tilt. Marth is privileged with his 20 frame IASA d-tilt. But Pichu's tilts are pretty quick (19 frame d-tilt mmmm).

I feel like utilt will get the most mileague for stuffing people who want to challenge the area directly in front of Pichu. Whereas nair or grab are probably superior in most other situations. Both lack substantial disjoint, however, and as Pichu is severely lacking in the mixup department on his options, throwing out a grounded hitbox with reward that is relatively safe is very critical to being able to keep the opponent conditioned in neutral.

I think u-tilt fits the bill nicely for this.

 

[the muted smasher]

Wd back back up tilt is a lot slower than pivot f tilt/ f smash or upair/shield

It's oh-Kay for sure, great for beating out falcon stomps but upair or dd grab are also options.

I only bair to unstale nair or as an oos option/pointless cheese.

Up throw air move isn't good enough or at least never been a way for me to kill a set up, it's still only an edge guard set up vs ffer which ain't bad.

Ai nair after an upair let's You chase down any di in the world super easily and You can get a sh weak nair and follow them to death very well. I've killed space animals/marth this way at some otherwise not possible percents.

I mean if You wanna take games off the same top state players You need a random upair at 40% to be death, You can't afford to have to win neutral an extra 3+ times when they don't have to but make a good trade

 

[ChivalRuse]

I think it really depends on the % and matchup. At low percent, you should avoid u-tilt because the base knockback is low, and you can get counter attacked out of it easily. But at mid percent it really unlocks as a good combo starter into uair , grab, or upsmash.

The main thing that I like about u-tilt is that it reaches so far in front and above Pichu. You can probably substitute f-smash for u-tilt in a fair amount of situations, but that really comes down to finesse. F-smash has it's drawbacks too: laggier move, longer startup on the active frames, deals recoil damage...

 

[Audos]

Pichu isn't even bottom tier in my opinion. I can't see how you can compare his options to somebody like bowser.

 

[the muted smasher]

Like Pichu is viable but his risk/reward ratio isn't.

Up tilt is just to niche for me to use most of the time maybe like sh upair wl away up tilt. But I always ask why didn't I just ff into a dd instead. Pivot f smash is just quicker than wd up tilt, not a better move just easier to apply in the neutral while keeping a flow

 

[PsychoSoldier]

Doesn't bair hitbox reach closer to the ground, which would allow you to hit certain crouching characters that nair would go over (when doing a cross up SH aerial)?

Also, I wasn't implying you should just stand there and u-tilt in place. You could wavedash into it. For example, you could wavedash back and then if the opponent was trying to attack where you just were, the utilt could definitely connect. It's nice that you don't even have to turn around to use it effectively (like Falco or Kirby's utilt).

Basically, I just thing it's a strong option for Pichu. It also combos into bair, nair, or even upsmash at low percents.

ChivalRuse I thought the same a few months back. I found uair to be better in almost every situation. If you find an opponent that DDs a lot, but not effectively then there could be a moment to use utilt - like when you think they'll dash back into your range. Still, I prefer to DD until they leave the floor - which is when I shield and use uair out of it. While it's horizontal range isn't amazing, it can reach most direct attacks on your shield. Uair also leads to more possible hits - not combos if you're not playing spacies Falcon or Roy. I have to admit though - utilt can be used somewhere, just not in neutral. If you can land a fair in a precise way and at certain percents (dependent of the character of course) you should be able to use utilt after it with your opponent still in hitstun. Some characters you can repeat this since the fair after utilt may count as part of the combo (fair>utilt>fair>utilt> ?air).

Still, I suggest you stick to using utilt for edge guards - although I don't myself..

 

[the muted smasher]

Fair has set knock back and as painful as it is to think about if they did the 1st hit even in midair they can ground themselves and cc the 2nd hit.

Fair is goodish/super gimmicky

 

[PsychoSoldier]

BTW am I the only one here who pivot dtilts? It seems nice and I think it's better than having to run and crouch into it after a dash.

 

[ChivalRuse]

Utilt feels super matchup-dependent to me. You also can't really use it at low percents much. I have decided it's almost pointless to use it against grounded Marth, and probably not the best option against airborne Marth. But I want to experiment with it in matchups where the opposing character doesn't have as much of a range advantage (like Fox, Falcon, Sheik, and most of the mid tiers).

 

[the muted smasher]

Pivot d tilt can be good, I mostly only pivot for de synces/ nair f smash combos as Pichu.

F tilt is nice vs marth it cranks with everything and beats grab. Decent. Up tilt overall is just niche

 

[PsychoSoldier]

only fast fallers can ground themselves after the 1st hit. Like you said before it has a set knockback - so even a heavy like ganon can't ground himself after the 1st hit even with SDI. As for CCing, most characters don't need to take advantage of it so they'll most likely be DDing if they do get caught. That being said, it'd be fruitless to use it on any mario. Peaches mash dsmash when they CC, but fair's multiple hits interrupt the startup until the last hit, so 7-% of the time the peach will the timing you'll have more than enough time to get out of there (10 frames. Fair has the 2nd least landing lag).

Fair is constantly bashed for good reasons, but it's the same pikachu's and Axe uses it just fine for fair>grab.

wow i thought i posted this but not that im back here it is

 

[PsychoSoldier]

Pivot d tilt can be good, I mostly only pivot for de synces/ nair f smash combos as Pichu.

F tilt is nice vs marth it cranks with everything and beats grab. Decent. Up tilt overall is just niche

That nair > fsmash doesn't sound reliable but I'm definitely willing to learn it. Who does it work the best on?

 

[ChivalRuse]

Nair -> upsmash works on almost every character around the 20-40%. I'm guessing nair -> fsmash works as high as 40-50%.

 

[PsychoSoldier]

Considering how far away they're knocked back from nair, I don't think fsmash would connect before they're out of hitstun - not to mention they'd be too far away.

Also, most of my nair>usmash combos connected from 0-15%. I'm sure they could bounce into it though if they don't fall fast enough.

 

[ChivalRuse]

It depends on DI of course. But you can connect nair -> upsmash at slightly higher percents on midweights/floaties.

 

[the muted smasher]

Nair pivot smash is an option like right before nair running shffl nair.

I think like 50% vs marth if they don't di away You can get a pivot f smash instead of a 2nd nair.

I rarely get it and it doesn't kill but it might mess with their di so whateve .

 

[ChivalRuse]

Marth is pretty annoying to fight in that you don't really have any grounded moves that you can throw out to keep him honest (like Doc's d-smash for example). Upsmash is good if you land it, but I never find myself at a range where I can foster hopes of connecting it. It takes too many frames to crouch cancel -> running upsmash unfortunately. You can't even spam d-tilt because that can be shield grabbed or just crouch cancel punished harder.

You really have to trim that matchup down to the basics. Dash dance nair, dash dance grab, nair out of shield, and neutral b once in a while just to harass, although the damage isn't usually something that a Marth is going to be afraid of.

 

[the muted smasher]

If You up smash marth can't grab oos punish the back side and You can shield/dash away before he can wd oos punish

 

[ChivalRuse]

In theory that sounds nice. But I doubt you would ever be able to set that up in practice. Or at least doing so would probably create weaknesses in your own defense that wouldn't otherwise have been there.

 

[Comet7]

nah you can definitely do it sometimes. pichu plays neutral like a worse fox in this MU so he's usually trying to nair, and if marth ever shields, we destroy him. down tilt isn't as useful as it seems because marth has a sword and a giant invisible hand (too much spirit dust smh sakurai).