elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
ICs can also fsmash you guaranteed out of a grab. Also, Pikachu's is definitely better than Pichu's.
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Guide The Pichu Matchup Thread
- Thread starter DerfMidWest
- Start date
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Enough discussion of Pichu's F-smash.
As a move it doesn't work. Unless you've somehow comboed into it, or it's super **** mindgames that don't work on good people much (if ever).
As a move it doesn't work. Unless you've somehow comboed into it, or it's super **** mindgames that don't work on good people much (if ever).
BunBun
Smash Master
F-Smash is decent to shield-poke and to edge-guard, (less so for the edge-guard, as d-tilt is better usually) but other than that it's kinda useless.
Now, a bit of a random question, but how do you get around DK's range with Pichu? Is WD out of shield the only option?
Now, a bit of a random question, but how do you get around DK's range with Pichu? Is WD out of shield the only option?
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
(to kirbykaze and i didn't see this page when i posted) hey do you main Ice Climber's and second pichu? no? well maybe i should ask you about pichu's side B vs marths and roys down B and how many fames pichu's taunt is and have you ever taunt canceled into a power shield and Mario's fireball lead to a grab or spiked fox with down smash without getting hurt (you have 4 fames for safely using it )? tell me something i don't know about pichu ,like a good use for dair
your WD suck's and donkey kong has lag , so try to get him to miss , jump up with B, charge side B or thunder him , i have never fought a good DK
your WD suck's and donkey kong has lag , so try to get him to miss , jump up with B, charge side B or thunder him , i have never fought a good DK
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
Wow, INSANE CARZY GUY. Just because you main a character doesn't mean you're good.
Pichu's Skull Bash sucks and so does anyone who uses Counter against it. Why wouldn't they just fsmash you out of it?
Pichu's taunt is a hundred frames and is IASA frame sixty.
Taunt cancel into powershield is useless.
Any Fox that gets spiked by the dsmash sucks and needs to learn to ledgetech. It's not hard to hit Fox out of his Fire Fox and you don't need the four frames of invincibility.
Charge Skull Bash? Why? That's stupid, even against DK. Thunder won't work either.
Don't act all high and mighty because you second Pichu. I sincerely doubt there's anything you could tell me about Pichu that I didn't already know.
Pichu's Skull Bash sucks and so does anyone who uses Counter against it. Why wouldn't they just fsmash you out of it?
Pichu's taunt is a hundred frames and is IASA frame sixty.
Taunt cancel into powershield is useless.
Any Fox that gets spiked by the dsmash sucks and needs to learn to ledgetech. It's not hard to hit Fox out of his Fire Fox and you don't need the four frames of invincibility.
Charge Skull Bash? Why? That's stupid, even against DK. Thunder won't work either.
Don't act all high and mighty because you second Pichu. I sincerely doubt there's anything you could tell me about Pichu that I didn't already know.
BunBun
Smash Master
Since you seem a good deal more competent than ICG, can you give me some advice on the DK matchup?
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
First thing would be the approach. Both how to deal with it and how to do it.
DK's approach is fairly simple and you can read a lot of his options by just looking at which way he's facing. If his back is to you, he's most likely going for a bair, though he could always turn around and use another approach, so watch for that. If he's facing you, he's limited to the nair, the dash attack, the grab and possibly a Giant Punch. You'll sometimes see dairs, fairs and uairs, but they're not as good. The dair is slow and easy to avoid, the fair is really slow and easy to avoid and you're too short to hit with the uair, although if they shorthop at you and haven't already thrown an aerial, it's likely that they're going to try this.
The bair you really can't do much about because of its huge range. Of course, they do have to have their back to you, which limits how useful this move is. They could wavedash towards you, but wavedashing is fairly laggy and you can punish him in the meantime, since he'll most likely have to do it multiple times to get close. The most common way you'll see this move used is probably out of a dashdance. The best way to counter this would be to start up a dashdance of your own and bait an attack that you can then punish. Don't give him a stationary target. You could also shoot a few Thunder Jolts, because hitting him makes him face the direction he was hit from, disabling his ability to bair. You could also try to fulljump over him and nair down at him, but it's not really the best option.
Watch out for reverse Giant Punch charge cancels into bairs. You'll probably only see these out of a fulljump, but it's not something you'd really look for unless you knew it was there.
Grabs and nairs should be dealt with with dashdances and wavedashes. Wavedashing back and running forward with a nair can take apart a lot of lower grade players. Watch spacing carefully and make sure you know DK's range for his attacks so you can skirt right outside of them.
The best thing to do, though, is to be on the offensive. Proactive players almost always have an advantage over reactive players because they're calling the shots. As Pichu, you have a small advantage in that you can't get hit very easily by the Spinning Kong out of shield unless you're in the air. Watch out for that. The sweetspot is basically DK's back arm, and it hurts.
Nair, like always, is going to be one of your staples. Grabs are also an option, but they're quite telegraphed. Since your options are low, you're going to have to mix things up. If your opponent shields a lot, you can jump through them with a nair and turn around grab, or just jump through and turn around grab. If you're feeling daring, you could jump through and then charge a usmash to catch him on the jump, since DK won't really be able to hit you immediately out of shield.
You could also consider using the uair in this matchup. One of DK's biggest weaknesses is his crappy shield. Dashdance a little if he's shielding to let it wear down, then jump and try to clip his exposed head with a uair. This won't work if he's clever and decides to lightshield, but you can use the above options to get around that.
DK falls surprisingly quickly, so you could use uair to fairly good effect. Uair itself doesn't do very much damage, so don't get carried away with it. Try uair to usmash or uair to nair for damage. DK doesn't have any fast downward attack options, so be bold.
On the edgeguard, you're basically going to have to edgehog him. You can punish attempts to go above you with ledgehop uair to nair at low percents and just straight ledgehop nair at higher ones. You can hassle him with Thunder Jolts or throw yourself at him with a nair if you really must, but his arms are bigger than you are, and you won't get too much done. Dtilt can work here, but DK's horizontal recovery is such that he'll probably make it back anyway, and you'll most likely have gotten hit for no reason.
Basically, you want to exert pressure on DK throughout this matchup. He outranges you and outprioritizes you (like most characters) but you can take advantage of his bad defensive options. His spotdodge seriously blows chunks and his shield is really bad, especially if he's had it out for a while. Rolling would force him to give up ground and pressure. Keep moving and keep him on the back foot. Bait attacks (you'll probably see a lot of the ftilt) and punish him after. You're really going to have to keep a step or two ahead of him the entire game if you want to win.
DK's approach is fairly simple and you can read a lot of his options by just looking at which way he's facing. If his back is to you, he's most likely going for a bair, though he could always turn around and use another approach, so watch for that. If he's facing you, he's limited to the nair, the dash attack, the grab and possibly a Giant Punch. You'll sometimes see dairs, fairs and uairs, but they're not as good. The dair is slow and easy to avoid, the fair is really slow and easy to avoid and you're too short to hit with the uair, although if they shorthop at you and haven't already thrown an aerial, it's likely that they're going to try this.
The bair you really can't do much about because of its huge range. Of course, they do have to have their back to you, which limits how useful this move is. They could wavedash towards you, but wavedashing is fairly laggy and you can punish him in the meantime, since he'll most likely have to do it multiple times to get close. The most common way you'll see this move used is probably out of a dashdance. The best way to counter this would be to start up a dashdance of your own and bait an attack that you can then punish. Don't give him a stationary target. You could also shoot a few Thunder Jolts, because hitting him makes him face the direction he was hit from, disabling his ability to bair. You could also try to fulljump over him and nair down at him, but it's not really the best option.
Watch out for reverse Giant Punch charge cancels into bairs. You'll probably only see these out of a fulljump, but it's not something you'd really look for unless you knew it was there.
Grabs and nairs should be dealt with with dashdances and wavedashes. Wavedashing back and running forward with a nair can take apart a lot of lower grade players. Watch spacing carefully and make sure you know DK's range for his attacks so you can skirt right outside of them.
The best thing to do, though, is to be on the offensive. Proactive players almost always have an advantage over reactive players because they're calling the shots. As Pichu, you have a small advantage in that you can't get hit very easily by the Spinning Kong out of shield unless you're in the air. Watch out for that. The sweetspot is basically DK's back arm, and it hurts.
Nair, like always, is going to be one of your staples. Grabs are also an option, but they're quite telegraphed. Since your options are low, you're going to have to mix things up. If your opponent shields a lot, you can jump through them with a nair and turn around grab, or just jump through and turn around grab. If you're feeling daring, you could jump through and then charge a usmash to catch him on the jump, since DK won't really be able to hit you immediately out of shield.
You could also consider using the uair in this matchup. One of DK's biggest weaknesses is his crappy shield. Dashdance a little if he's shielding to let it wear down, then jump and try to clip his exposed head with a uair. This won't work if he's clever and decides to lightshield, but you can use the above options to get around that.
DK falls surprisingly quickly, so you could use uair to fairly good effect. Uair itself doesn't do very much damage, so don't get carried away with it. Try uair to usmash or uair to nair for damage. DK doesn't have any fast downward attack options, so be bold.
On the edgeguard, you're basically going to have to edgehog him. You can punish attempts to go above you with ledgehop uair to nair at low percents and just straight ledgehop nair at higher ones. You can hassle him with Thunder Jolts or throw yourself at him with a nair if you really must, but his arms are bigger than you are, and you won't get too much done. Dtilt can work here, but DK's horizontal recovery is such that he'll probably make it back anyway, and you'll most likely have gotten hit for no reason.
Basically, you want to exert pressure on DK throughout this matchup. He outranges you and outprioritizes you (like most characters) but you can take advantage of his bad defensive options. His spotdodge seriously blows chunks and his shield is really bad, especially if he's had it out for a while. Rolling would force him to give up ground and pressure. Keep moving and keep him on the back foot. Bait attacks (you'll probably see a lot of the ftilt) and punish him after. You're really going to have to keep a step or two ahead of him the entire game if you want to win.
BunBun
Smash Master
Thank you very much. I've been fearing the Bair part of this matchup, but I think I might have a way around it now =D
Jagg
Smash Journeyman
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
will should do marth next (DK is over if not you should have said more)it can be called 25:75 marth's fav. but the question is does pichu have any thing on marth? like can pichu edge-guard him alright or can he chain throw him , all i know is if you d throw him at a low percent can get a free move and pichu's side B can go through marth's counter
(marth may want to counter because getting 55% on anyone is just to good and if you fail sets you up for CC and the pichu may not know pichu goes right through it and may release early (leads into failure)) but really is just a small thing soooo
(marth may want to counter because getting 55% on anyone is just to good and if you fail sets you up for CC and the pichu may not know pichu goes right through it and may release early (leads into failure)) but really is just a small thing soooo
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
I think I'd rather get a kill with a tipper Fsmash then 55% and no kill.
I think the only thing Pichu has on Marth is a projectile.
I think the only thing Pichu has on Marth is a projectile.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
oh and recovery and i was thinking some brave marth may try it and it is better than counter working on pichu
elvenarrow3000
Smash Master
- Joined
- Jul 22, 2007
- Messages
- 3,308
...what the hell? Counter does not do fifty-five damage as Marth ever.
Also Pichu has nothing on Marth. At all.
EDIT: Also, no one Counters the Skull Bash. That's just stupid.
Also Pichu has nothing on Marth. At all.
EDIT: Also, no one Counters the Skull Bash. That's just stupid.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
sorry i was thinking 49 instead of 39 and pichu adds 2% all i am trying to say is at least marth can't counter it ,it's a small thing luigi's taunt ,(stupidly rare in usefulness) or mewtwo's side b for against a fireball
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
lol you don't know what you're talking about.
Most Mewtwo's would Perfect Shield a fireball, instead of over b'ing it with the enormous delay.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
Pichu vs Marth is impossible.
All you have on Marth, really, is the ability to edgeguard his low recovery. You can ledgehop Nair him for his Up+Bs and if he goes onto the stage you can actually get-up and reverse D-smash him off backwards. If he's recovering high, sadly, most of this is neutralized. That's not to say you can't do anything, but it's harder.
You can also chuck ineffectual projectiles at him, that he can swat very easily, but that doesn't really help much. Still, it's Pichu, so I guess anything is worth mentioning.
All you have on Marth, really, is the ability to edgeguard his low recovery. You can ledgehop Nair him for his Up+Bs and if he goes onto the stage you can actually get-up and reverse D-smash him off backwards. If he's recovering high, sadly, most of this is neutralized. That's not to say you can't do anything, but it's harder.
You can also chuck ineffectual projectiles at him, that he can swat very easily, but that doesn't really help much. Still, it's Pichu, so I guess anything is worth mentioning.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
hey milk that's the point it is near worthless and marth's grab outranges EVERYTHING pichu has LOL and to bad your little hitler is gone KirbyKaze he reminds me of charlie chapmen ahh he was so funny
KosukeKGA
Smash Champion
Hey, it's INSANE CARZY GUY!
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
please don't put me in an asylum , they will put me in a straight jacket and i will chew off my arm for freedom and they wouldn't let me be free 
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
I think we should ICG into an asylum.
I think watching him chew his arm off would be funny.
Who's with me?
I think watching him chew his arm off would be funny.
Who's with me?
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
me, are we voting on it 'but only if i get the film and awards for it being funny and stuff
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
can I vote twice? and this page is now part of my sig 
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
How come you're allowed to keep your hilter avatar but mine was removed?
There's no justice in the world.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
hey what do is say it's charlie chapmen and make look like a kirby or someone hitler or better ,you could do Stalin he was eviler (he killed more) but then again he was just afraid of losing his power
i have yet to understand one of your posts.
Seriously, ICG, do you even speak english?
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
yes , well useless i try to speak german and if you think i can't speak english you should see my german and i am not mexican or anything like that (just dyslexic)
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
lol.
You don't seem very dyslexic to me.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
OK then WTF do you people want from me... is it money because i don't have much
you just seme like someone who cant speak english...
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
ohh well then, this isn't what the pichu boards are for, how long ago was it cent someone talked bout pichu
MarkLoo
Smash Ace
just stupid.
roflpwnt mark
hey mark come on AIM once in a while
hey mark come on AIM once in a while
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
why is it so fun to add spam to the pichu boards lol ,hey have anyone ever play against a good pichu
cant say i have.
INSANE CARZY GUY
Banned via Warnings
only about 20 or so people can really say that, a good pichu is rarer than a pro Ice climber that never grabs (i may be kidding)
The Milk Monster
Smash Champion
lol, your posts still don't make sense.
And I play a good Pichu myself, and Pichu's best still is limited by so much.
KirbyKaze
Smash Legend
There is no such thing as a good Pichu.
I say we discuss Marth a bit more unless everyone's satisfied.
So far we have
1) Projectile needs to be used because you can't get through his sword on your own
2) Don't get trapped against Marth at his ideal spacings because then he can punish everything you do; either be very far away from him (sufficiently far to throw out a projectile with impunity) or be very close
3) Edgehog with some combination of ledgehop Nair, light shield edgehog --> ledgedash D-smash reverse, and projectiles to kill his momentum
I'm guessing for close-range game (the only time Pichu will hit) will be mostly a mesh of whatever you can hit on Marth so that's pretty much open to anything. D-tilt seems to be Pichu's most ranged fast move but that doesn't really matter when all of his moves have horrible range so I'm guessing whatever you can get should be taken?
Does Pichu have anything better than WD OoS --> U-throw Nair to punish Marth's non-tip F-smash on block? Can he D-smash if Marth does it at the edge so you could possibly reverse and edgeguard? Or is it too slow?
I say we discuss Marth a bit more unless everyone's satisfied.
So far we have
1) Projectile needs to be used because you can't get through his sword on your own
2) Don't get trapped against Marth at his ideal spacings because then he can punish everything you do; either be very far away from him (sufficiently far to throw out a projectile with impunity) or be very close
3) Edgehog with some combination of ledgehop Nair, light shield edgehog --> ledgedash D-smash reverse, and projectiles to kill his momentum
I'm guessing for close-range game (the only time Pichu will hit) will be mostly a mesh of whatever you can hit on Marth so that's pretty much open to anything. D-tilt seems to be Pichu's most ranged fast move but that doesn't really matter when all of his moves have horrible range so I'm guessing whatever you can get should be taken?
Does Pichu have anything better than WD OoS --> U-throw Nair to punish Marth's non-tip F-smash on block? Can he D-smash if Marth does it at the edge so you could possibly reverse and edgeguard? Or is it too slow?