Guide The Pichu Matchup Thread

[T0MMY]

Taj: you're freakin' amazing with Mewtwo, I know. But I think I know the Pichu vs Kirby matchup more than you do since I played it for years. I agree with 99% of what you posted--Pichu is almost completely garbage, but I got around a lot of the problems you say he has.
Just so you know, the Thunder will KO off the top (EMPHASIS: if you get it to hit perfectly) just like I use R.O.B.'s uncharged laser to KO off the side in Brawl. There are techniques you can use to make up for a lot of Pichu's shortfalls, so, yes Pichu is terrible, but I'm just pointing out just some of the advanced techniques I've used.

T0MMY! Pichu vs Kirby MM, $50, NOW!

Ok

T0MMY full charge skull bashed M2K at either OC3 or Pound 3(I can't remember which)

It was Super Champ Combo.

 

[Pink Reaper]

Just so you know, the Thunder will KO off the top (EMPHASIS: if you get it to hit perfectly)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H4RtU7hLsJk

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

yeah i love to thunder them over the top , that's one thing pichu has on pikachu , pichu's is a lot faster it CAN do more damage the faster part is very useful i once got a up smash after words

 

[Monkey Wrench]

Bowser up, if a bit late, and his summary to come shortly.

Alright, Mewtwo discussion, go.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

this for taj , but mewtwo is probably safe the whole match with nair countering about every thing and m2 has much better range and pichu will get most kills over the top and maybe a few with f- smash , i really don't know what pichu could do , it's like ICs vs marth , if you win you are a beast or they really suck

 

[elvenarrow3000]

So ummm... Pichu boards don't have a Q&A thread like every other board... someone should start one...

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

who will answer them I know pichu very well but i have really proved but skill with my combo video i am working now , but i know about every thing about him like his duck vs pikachu's (pichu's is way better)

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Well. Gotta start somewhere.

 

[otg]

Wow, I just read Taj's account of Kirby vs. Pichu... and Taj, you are a god.

 

[Galanoth7395]

I say to be aggresive in this match-up. Mewtwo's a fat target for combos, so try SH > Bair/Nair or U-tilt to start them. More tomorrow.

 

[Shadow Huan]

Pichu would have to abuse its speed and teeny-tiny frame advantges. It doesn't matter if most of Pichu's attacks have more knockback or do more, Mewtwo's got reach with most of his moves, and higher knockback on most of them too. Sure, Mewtwo's big, but he's floaty, and the Teleport makes escaping combos easy in this match-up, not counting Thunderbolt combos. Mewtwo actually has several advantages in a straight contest. However, Pichu's speed will counterbalance this completely. I can't really say who has the upperhand; although Mewtwo SHOULD, his terrible representation in Melee really brings it down to skill.

WOW, I'm rambling. Ah, whatever...

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I think Mewtwo only has reach in the ftilt/dtilt range, so if you space your jump so that you've above that, it might help. Also, he's rather slow, so dashdance bait him into something. Pichu has a surprisingly good dashdance.

 

[Taj278]

Mewtwo ***** Pichu. ALL DAY, son. ChuDat's Pikachu couldn't beat my M2 either.

Elven, those are the obvious range advantages that Mewtwo has while on the ground. You're not including superior grab range (can grab Pichu out of the air), upward angle tilts, a projectile, and now Mewtwo's F-air actually out ranges something. Not to mention a scary back air edge guard and early forward air KOs.

Pichu really has just a linear SHFFL game, an ok one, but only because it HAS to be. If Mewtwo can read that, then Pichu loses. If Pichu can get inside of Mewtwo and mix up his cross up SHFFL game and sneak in more up smashes then Pichu can be a winner. Otherwise, Mewtwo just won't die easily from Pichu, there just aren't any guaranteed KOs that are reasonably viable to land against a good Mewtwo.

Though I won't rule out that my perceptions of this match are distorted from my own experiences playing as Mewtwo, but for any other Mewtwo player against Pichu players, I'm sure it would probably balance itself out since there aren't many M2 players with the appropriate level of spacing that's necessary to even do what I'm talking about.

Pichu's Dash dance won't work very well against Mewtwo's WD down tilts, IMO. If Mewtwo just calls the retreating dash away, it's worthless since it isn't long enough to really escape M2's WD which is the 3rd longest in the game. Then you can even do that following hopped shadow balls...

I have a feeling that in an average M2 vs Pichu match, Wavedash back Shield grab will probably be what ***** Pichu's SHFFL game.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Oh... hm, never considered that @_@ Too good, Taj.

 

[Taj278]

All day, every day. ~.~

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

Is usmash really that hard to land on a m2 that plays right? he has ways to combo into (nair... fair and dthrow maybe?) and it's pretty fast

 

[Taj278]

Nope, Mewtwo is too light and floaty. Even if Mewtwo intentionally DIed a down throw, Mewtwo would would be at an astonishing 10% for it to ever land. That's even assuming Mewtwo would even get grabbed by the character with the shortest grab range in the game.

F-air > Up Smash definitely doesn't work. N-air doesn't work because M2 would be too high at like 30%+. Pichu's up Smash just doesn't have very much range at all. Sure, you can run in and pray that it lands eventually, but what happens when you start telegraphing your kill move? A good player will just... not get hit by the kill move. Which is the point I'm trying to make. Pichu has less guaranteed options against M2.

Mewtwo just has to avoid a linear SHFFL game with the possibility of empty hops that don't really work well because the range on the attack is poor, and a slower dash dance game than Pikachu without the same Smash/Tilt range. Everything about Pichu's play is just easier to deal with despite having less landing lag.

Mewtwo's fully charged Shadow ball with shield pressure on Pichu's small shield will lead to more down tilts landing on you, which means grabs and tech chases and forward air > up airs. Mewtwo's neutral air has similar priority as a full body attack.

Like I said, maybe my perceptions of the match are distorted, but I don't get hit by Pichu's Up Smash. Hell, I rarely even get hit by Forward's Fox's up Smash unless it's a jab combo at about 90%. Pichu's up Smash doesn't really seem that quick to me, coupled with poor range it is just so easy to read...

I'm mostly basing this off of how I've played good Pikachu players. I know Pikachu has better everything than Pichu except L-cancels and landing lag which are negligible against my playstyle. I played T0mmy's Pichu the same way I played against Pikachus back at OC3, and it felt the same. But you know what, I'll keep an open mind and assume that this particular match-up hasn't been developed as much as the Pikachu vs. Mewtwo match-up and maybe everyone that's ever played me is going about it all the wrong way.

 

[MikeHaggarTHAKJB]

nah i don't your matchup perceptions are distorted, I was just asking questions, not questioning I have pretty much no experience in this matchup...
That's interesting stuff to read

 

[Monkey Wrench]

Great writeups, I think I'll quote one for M2's summary.

By the way,

shortest grab range in the game.
.

Doesn't Pika have even shorter grab range? I think it's somewhere in the Pichu guide or something.
Edit: Ah, here it is:

5
Grabbing Range:

He has 3rd worst grabbing range in the game, so he’s not very good at grabbing. Sometimes the range might surprise you though if you Jumpcancel it.

On a side note, one has to wonder what the devs were thinking when they gave Pichu a few millimeters of range on his attacks, and gave Marth a sword the size of 10 Pichus

 

[Taj278]

My fault, it is 3rd worst but the bottom 3 all have piss poor grab ranges.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

On a side note, one has to wonder what the devs were thinking when they gave Pichu a few millimeters of range on his attacks, and gave Marth a sword the size of 10 Pichus

"Oh man, I have some AWESOME ideas for our next game."

 

[Monkey Wrench]

Mewtwo done, Falco discussion go.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

NO ONE LAUGHED at my joke? D=

Watch the vids of KoreanDJ vs Jello. Chaingrabs, grabs out of usmash and nair gimps make up the most of this matchup.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

sorry man , Falco vs pichu wow , pichu ***** falco about as much as ICs freeze glitch , falco must deal with a small target and a great recovery and pichu can string the same move over and over again ,moves like up smash up throw up tilt upair nair and falco is the second easiest character to spike with down smash

(you can try in training with fox ! Back throw 2 down-smash him to his death he must be at 0% at his re-spawn on FD) falco has what he has on everyone and his laser's can't hit a ducking pichu.So i think that's it for falco

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Uh. Pichu does not **** Falco. His aerials will beat you down and if you get hit by his aerials, that means combos. Low shorthop lasers will hit you even if you're ducking and any Falco that can DI won't be comboed very easily. As for dsmash... good luck hitting with that. Falco has the shine.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

i have done it once with side B (it wasn't a spike ) but with his up B dude that's uber easy to spike with d smash i do it all the time (note to do this you must be of 1 of two things be good with d smash spikes or cheat and try it vs fox it is amazing) and its not easy to SH laser pichu ducking it took me 15 trys and i am decent as falco

 

[elvenarrow3000]

What you mean stagespike? That's really easy to tech. Most of the higher level people - especially people who play fastfallers can ledgetech.

And just because you can't shoot low lasers doesn't mean no one can.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

i not going to lie its hard to do (dSmash spike) but not everyone can tech it and will be able do it but please put in a simple way on how to tech the wall if spiked , but dsmash will work and with the time it takes to use up B again i could spike you again

 

[elvenarrow3000]

Except Falcos Phantasm to immediately grab the ledge after a ledgetech.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

but how would one do it ?

 

[rhan]

but how would one do it ?

Teching (Pressing R/L 1.5 seconds before you get hit so that you stop your momentum) at the edge then a quick forward B(Not rocket science) to the edge.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

It's actually a third of a second...

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

Thank you rhan and falco ***** most characters , i was trying to say pichu ***** falco better than most characters

 

[Taj278]

I think Falco vs Pichu is just a slight disadvantage for Pichu. Looking at it from Falco's perspective, he just doesn't have the **** that he use to have. Basically everyone and their mom can gimp Falco.

Falco has control of the match like he does to just about everyone, Falco has the priority, the combos, the range, the shine, and Pichu has the lack of everything Falco has including weight. Good Falco will beat good Pichu just because like most low tier characters, getting Falco into a gimp scenario is just difficult.

Pichu's SH runs into Falco's natural SHL and loses to Falco's everything. Pichu really has to probably stay low, get into Falco's SHL space and mix up dash JC grab and quick short ranged SHFFLs. If Pichu can get inside Falco then Pichu can start comboing, tech chasing, chain grabbing and force Falco off stage for those gimp KOs.

Oh, and Pichu's Down Smash is not a viable edgeguard in the current metagame. Doing that would actually hinder Pichu's edgeguard overall. You're better off down tilting or something, IMO. I'm sure there is a time and place for it somewhere though. Like reverse down smash or something.

 

[KirbyKaze]

When Sheik recovers onstage I love getting up and D-smashing her off backwards like 6 times it makes me feel awesome.

Or at least it helps me cover up the immeasurable pain I feel when they chain grab me.

 

[elvenarrow3000]

...don't you main Sheik, KirbyKaze?

 

[KirbyKaze]

...don't you main Sheik, KirbyKaze?

Yes.

What about it?

 

[Pink Reaper]

Yes.

What about it?

NOT AS MUCH AS YOUR FACE

Spoiler

s

 

[elvenarrow3000]

I dunno, it just seems kinda weird to complain about the character you main.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

we need to do marth after c. falcon. and what will say for falco (i think pichu destroys falco)